| An honest answer from you guys... 00:16 - Dec 12 with 2916 views | Dr_Parnassus |
I have asked this before but never really got an answer.
Lets say Cooper signed a new contract after the play-off final and said, ''Right, I want to change how we play now and the board are giving me 5m to facilitate it because we have freed up some salary''.
After 22 games, performing identical to how we have done so far. That means results, identical, performances identical - everything kick for kick the same...
What do you think the reaction would be? Be honest.
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| An honest answer from you guys... on 09:15 - Dec 14 with 751 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| An honest answer from you guys... on 13:33 - Dec 12 by dobjack2 |
Martin has permanent signings, some his, some before he arrived. Cooper had top prospect loans and Ayew. I think it could be argued that Cooper had better players to work with on that comparison.
When Cooper left the question was did he feel that was the best he could do with the players he had. We didn't turn up for the play-off final but why Cooper left, I doubt if we'll ever really know.
As to your last question real football isn't football manager. Martin has a way that he wants to play but doesn't have the players he needs to play it.
If he gets the players he needs in this window he'll continue with the system and coaching and developing the players who are still here. If he doesn't get those players then he will have a decision to make about the way we play. The way he wants to play isn't new and opposing managers know where to attack it especially if there are square pegs in round holes. |
I don’t think it could be argued at all, we have the best squad we have had for some time in terms of balance and talent. We didn’t even have a striker last year.
I’m not sure what people mean by we didn’t turn up for the final. We played Brentford and had 10 men after an hour. Brentford the team that beat us comfortably in half our previous meetings in the previous 2 seasons, they were expected to win, were odds on favourites and did just that.
Exactly football isn’t football manager, it’s real life. You can’t pick a team with your preferred style and hope the simulation wins it for you. If you are unable to play your preferred style then you have to manage the situation and do the best you possibly can with the tools at your disposal - that’s what Cooper did.
Stubbornly doing the same thing knowing we don’t have the tools to do it is just stupidity.
I disagree that he should only change if he doesn’t get the players he wants in January, he should have changed it 8 weeks ago. Why would we wait until January to alter a system that doesn’t work? Brainless. | |
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| An honest answer from you guys... on 09:37 - Dec 14 with 725 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
| An honest answer from you guys... on 09:15 - Dec 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
I don’t think it could be argued at all, we have the best squad we have had for some time in terms of balance and talent. We didn’t even have a striker last year.
I’m not sure what people mean by we didn’t turn up for the final. We played Brentford and had 10 men after an hour. Brentford the team that beat us comfortably in half our previous meetings in the previous 2 seasons, they were expected to win, were odds on favourites and did just that.
Exactly football isn’t football manager, it’s real life. You can’t pick a team with your preferred style and hope the simulation wins it for you. If you are unable to play your preferred style then you have to manage the situation and do the best you possibly can with the tools at your disposal - that’s what Cooper did.
Stubbornly doing the same thing knowing we don’t have the tools to do it is just stupidity.
I disagree that he should only change if he doesn’t get the players he wants in January, he should have changed it 8 weeks ago. Why would we wait until January to alter a system that doesn’t work? Brainless. |
Its a system that sometimes has worked really well and other times gone catastrophically wrong. I imagine most teams around mid table are in that boat. The only difference between us and the top teams is consistency. |  | | |
| An honest answer from you guys... on 10:01 - Dec 14 with 706 views | DwightYorkeSuperstar |
| An honest answer from you guys... on 09:37 - Dec 14 by Flynnidine_Zidownes |
Its a system that sometimes has worked really well and other times gone catastrophically wrong. I imagine most teams around mid table are in that boat. The only difference between us and the top teams is consistency. |
Which games did Russell Martin's preferred system actually work?
I suspect you'll say Barnsley.
Which other games has it worked in? |  |
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| An honest answer from you guys... on 10:37 - Dec 14 with 681 views | Thornburyswan |
| An honest answer from you guys... on 09:15 - Dec 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
I don’t think it could be argued at all, we have the best squad we have had for some time in terms of balance and talent. We didn’t even have a striker last year.
I’m not sure what people mean by we didn’t turn up for the final. We played Brentford and had 10 men after an hour. Brentford the team that beat us comfortably in half our previous meetings in the previous 2 seasons, they were expected to win, were odds on favourites and did just that.
Exactly football isn’t football manager, it’s real life. You can’t pick a team with your preferred style and hope the simulation wins it for you. If you are unable to play your preferred style then you have to manage the situation and do the best you possibly can with the tools at your disposal - that’s what Cooper did.
Stubbornly doing the same thing knowing we don’t have the tools to do it is just stupidity.
I disagree that he should only change if he doesn’t get the players he wants in January, he should have changed it 8 weeks ago. Why would we wait until January to alter a system that doesn’t work? Brainless. |
Fundamentally disagree on last year’s squad va the one we have now - far better spine to last year’s team with Woodman, Guehi, Ayew, Lowe & Roberts vs Hamer, Nauts, Piroe, Pato & Laird.
‘Stubbornly doing the same thing . . .’ Agree & could be said of the last 3/4 seasons just doing a different thing stubbornly.
The way we played vs Brentford with no attempts on target was difficult to stomach in a one-off winner takes all match - you may as well give it a go & lose 1-3/4 because sometimes that one goal back can swing momentum.
I doubt he will change after Jan but he might have 2/3 players that fit his style better than he has in December - it will be interesting to see if that improves results, if not we might be in for a challenging second half of the season! | | | |
| An honest answer from you guys... on 11:01 - Dec 14 with 673 views | onehunglow |
| An honest answer from you guys... on 10:37 - Dec 14 by Thornburyswan |
Fundamentally disagree on last year’s squad va the one we have now - far better spine to last year’s team with Woodman, Guehi, Ayew, Lowe & Roberts vs Hamer, Nauts, Piroe, Pato & Laird.
‘Stubbornly doing the same thing . . .’ Agree & could be said of the last 3/4 seasons just doing a different thing stubbornly.
The way we played vs Brentford with no attempts on target was difficult to stomach in a one-off winner takes all match - you may as well give it a go & lose 1-3/4 because sometimes that one goal back can swing momentum.
I doubt he will change after Jan but he might have 2/3 players that fit his style better than he has in December - it will be interesting to see if that improves results, if not we might be in for a challenging second half of the season! |
Agree with that although Woodman was appalling BUT better than Hamer now it seems.Hamer seems to have been destroyed as was/is Benda by poor management and coaching.
I detested Cooper in every way possible but this current chap is on a new level. It is beyond words really as to what he is doing and planning with the resources the club has available.
Honest. | |
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| An honest answer from you guys... on 12:13 - Dec 14 with 655 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
| An honest answer from you guys... on 10:01 - Dec 14 by DwightYorkeSuperstar |
Which games did Russell Martin's preferred system actually work?
I suspect you'll say Barnsley.
Which other games has it worked in? |
It obviously worked at Barnsley. We’ve had other good wins too. If the system had a 100% fail rate we’d be comfortably bottom but there have been quite a few teams unable to deal with us. | | | |
| An honest answer from you guys... on 12:47 - Dec 14 with 639 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| An honest answer from you guys... on 09:37 - Dec 14 by Flynnidine_Zidownes |
Its a system that sometimes has worked really well and other times gone catastrophically wrong. I imagine most teams around mid table are in that boat. The only difference between us and the top teams is consistency. |
Which games? Peterborough and Cardiff spring to mind, I believe they are the only 2 out of half a season, and against those most systems would work.
The only times we have gone on any sort of a run is when he ditched it and we knocked 10%+ of the balls long, we mixed it. | |
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| An honest answer from you guys... on 12:48 - Dec 14 with 635 views | DwightYorkeSuperstar |
| An honest answer from you guys... on 12:13 - Dec 14 by Flynnidine_Zidownes |
It obviously worked at Barnsley. We’ve had other good wins too. If the system had a 100% fail rate we’d be comfortably bottom but there have been quite a few teams unable to deal with us. |
I thought so.
The only team it "obviously worked against" was a team who have won 1 of their last 20 matches.
Even then, with 80% possession, we managed just 3 shots on target. Last weekend, Preston managed to achieve 16 shots against Barsnley for example.
It doesn't work. Perhaps it will work if we're able to sign Kyle Walker and the handful of other defenders in world football capable of playing this way. | |
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| An honest answer from you guys... on 12:53 - Dec 14 with 628 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| An honest answer from you guys... on 12:13 - Dec 14 by Flynnidine_Zidownes |
It obviously worked at Barnsley. We’ve had other good wins too. If the system had a 100% fail rate we’d be comfortably bottom but there have been quite a few teams unable to deal with us. |
Ah yep Barnsley too. 80% possession and only 6 goal attempts (3 on target) though, barmy.
No system is going to have a 100% loss rate. The bad ones however won’t win very often or consistently.
Winning the odd time (3 in 16 or whatever it is with this system) doesn’t mean it works well when we win though, just means that variance allows us to win with it on occasion like any other system, usually against the dregs of the division - which Barnsley, Cardiff and Peterborough are.
We have gained most of our points this season without this short at all costs system, more often than not when we deploy it, we lose. [Post edited 14 Dec 2021 12:54]
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| An honest answer from you guys... on 13:15 - Dec 14 with 616 views | vetchonian |
| An honest answer from you guys... on 12:53 - Dec 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
Ah yep Barnsley too. 80% possession and only 6 goal attempts (3 on target) though, barmy.
No system is going to have a 100% loss rate. The bad ones however won’t win very often or consistently.
Winning the odd time (3 in 16 or whatever it is with this system) doesn’t mean it works well when we win though, just means that variance allows us to win with it on occasion like any other system, usually against the dregs of the division - which Barnsley, Cardiff and Peterborough are.
We have gained most of our points this season without this short at all costs system, more often than not when we deploy it, we lose. [Post edited 14 Dec 2021 12:54]
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And the same could be said historically of MArtin whilst at MK Dons even after 3 transfer windows his side was midtable at best, and his post match pressers said exactly the same as the good Doc has posted elsewhere.
The time has come for Winter and Allen to sit him down and discuss a different approach...its great to have a vision but sometimes there is a point between reality and vision that has to be accepted.
Change cannot be made in one swoop it has to be gradual..
MArtins tactics needs tweaking, the wingbacks have to be brought a little further back, on that score why not revert to the succesful backline of LAird, Bennet, Naughton , Manning and Bidwell which served us well during the majority of our winning streak?
Wht did Martin not attempt to change things on Saturday taking off Cabango and bringing on Bidwell changing the left hand side whihc Cooper exploited?
TO answer your opening question though Doc I personally believe Cooper would have been hounded out....there are for me too many supportes whose bias was bourne of other predjudice than his style of football.
Many go on about his "negative" approach to the final yet we did attack,Brentfords second goal was as a result of a breakaway after Ayew lost possesion when he tried to win a penalty there were 6 Swans players in the Brentford box one of whom was Fulton a player under utilised by MArtin and 2 others on the edge of teh box ( Grimes and HOurihane) Brentford broke and scored...so it wasnt as though we were sitting back
Again too many have a hazy memeory of what reality was.
That sis now all in the past....MArtin needs to start learning...I know this is the wrong thread but he has had enough time to see his Plan A diesnt work...though after his statement on Saturday I d o wonder | |
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| An honest answer from you guys... on 13:41 - Dec 14 with 606 views | Catullus |
| An honest answer from you guys... on 12:53 - Dec 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
Ah yep Barnsley too. 80% possession and only 6 goal attempts (3 on target) though, barmy.
No system is going to have a 100% loss rate. The bad ones however won’t win very often or consistently.
Winning the odd time (3 in 16 or whatever it is with this system) doesn’t mean it works well when we win though, just means that variance allows us to win with it on occasion like any other system, usually against the dregs of the division - which Barnsley, Cardiff and Peterborough are.
We have gained most of our points this season without this short at all costs system, more often than not when we deploy it, we lose. [Post edited 14 Dec 2021 12:54]
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It's 7 in 22 in the league. Strange how you cherry pick stats when it suits you. What happened to complete data sets? 3 in 16! | |
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| An honest answer from you guys... on 14:54 - Dec 14 with 582 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
| An honest answer from you guys... on 12:48 - Dec 14 by DwightYorkeSuperstar |
I thought so.
The only team it "obviously worked against" was a team who have won 1 of their last 20 matches.
Even then, with 80% possession, we managed just 3 shots on target. Last weekend, Preston managed to achieve 16 shots against Barsnley for example.
It doesn't work. Perhaps it will work if we're able to sign Kyle Walker and the handful of other defenders in world football capable of playing this way. |
It obviously worked because we won comfortably. If we wanted more shots on the stats table we could just shoot from the halfway line constantly. It’s about the quality of chances created and we generally create good opportunities, but lately we’ve been missing them. We beat Cardiff comfortably, Peterborough comfortably, a solid win against promotion chasing West Brom. We’ve also kept a good number of clean sheets but again with our lack of consistency we’ve also conceded a lot. To say it doesn’t sometimes work is an outright lie. We’re the absolute epitome of a mid table side at the moment. | | | |
| An honest answer from you guys... on 14:57 - Dec 14 with 579 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
| An honest answer from you guys... on 12:53 - Dec 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
Ah yep Barnsley too. 80% possession and only 6 goal attempts (3 on target) though, barmy.
No system is going to have a 100% loss rate. The bad ones however won’t win very often or consistently.
Winning the odd time (3 in 16 or whatever it is with this system) doesn’t mean it works well when we win though, just means that variance allows us to win with it on occasion like any other system, usually against the dregs of the division - which Barnsley, Cardiff and Peterborough are.
We have gained most of our points this season without this short at all costs system, more often than not when we deploy it, we lose. [Post edited 14 Dec 2021 12:54]
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If we win it has obviously worked. We started poorly, went on a good run, now we’ve dipped again. Looking at the table we’ve lost to a lot of teams above us and beaten or drawn with those below us. That is why we are mid table and deserve to be there. It’s not working consistently but to say it’s not working at all is an outright lie. | | | |
| An honest answer from you guys... on 15:00 - Dec 14 with 577 views | vetchonian |
| An honest answer from you guys... on 14:54 - Dec 14 by Flynnidine_Zidownes |
It obviously worked because we won comfortably. If we wanted more shots on the stats table we could just shoot from the halfway line constantly. It’s about the quality of chances created and we generally create good opportunities, but lately we’ve been missing them. We beat Cardiff comfortably, Peterborough comfortably, a solid win against promotion chasing West Brom. We’ve also kept a good number of clean sheets but again with our lack of consistency we’ve also conceded a lot. To say it doesn’t sometimes work is an outright lie. We’re the absolute epitome of a mid table side at the moment. |
whihc is what MK Dons were under Martin even after 3 transfer windows, the same number it is said he needs here.
The stats speak for themselves, Cardiff Barnsley and Peterborough are no great opposition,the win agaunst West Brom was credible , but we mixed things up ...we didnt play the full short ball game#
Under MArtin last season MK DOns won 39% of their games this season we have won 32 %
The first half against Barnsley was a bore fest....again they have won 2 games all season we had 80 % of the possesion and scored just 2 goals. | |
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| An honest answer from you guys... on 15:12 - Dec 14 with 558 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
| An honest answer from you guys... on 15:00 - Dec 14 by vetchonian |
whihc is what MK Dons were under Martin even after 3 transfer windows, the same number it is said he needs here.
The stats speak for themselves, Cardiff Barnsley and Peterborough are no great opposition,the win agaunst West Brom was credible , but we mixed things up ...we didnt play the full short ball game#
Under MArtin last season MK DOns won 39% of their games this season we have won 32 %
The first half against Barnsley was a bore fest....again they have won 2 games all season we had 80 % of the possesion and scored just 2 goals. |
Yeah I don’t know what people expect. We’re just a run of the mill championship club, we’ve had all our best players leave. Our manager buggered off about a week before the season. Our first choice of new manager pulled out quicker than a catholic porn star. We picked up a young, incredibly raw manager from the lower leagues and he had a few days before the season started. Mid table is fine this year. We were all bricking it in August because we had no squad, no manager. We are doing ok and are where we should be.
If people are expecting us to be playing scintillating attacking football and sweeping everyone aside 5-0 it’s not happening. This is notoriously one of the most scrappy and competitive leagues in world football. | | | |
| An honest answer from you guys... on 20:41 - Dec 14 with 500 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| An honest answer from you guys... on 13:41 - Dec 14 by Catullus |
It's 7 in 22 in the league. Strange how you cherry pick stats when it suits you. What happened to complete data sets? 3 in 16! |
What is 7 in 22?
Please read it again. It's best you continue to put me on ignore so you don't keep making glaring errors like this all the time. It's like an alarm goes off in your head when I post and you just have to type something silly in reply.
We are talking about Martins system. The short at all costs one. We have deployed that around 16 times this season, won 3 times.
That is complete data sets.
Keep up. | |
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| An honest answer from you guys... on 20:44 - Dec 14 with 498 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| An honest answer from you guys... on 15:12 - Dec 14 by Flynnidine_Zidownes |
Yeah I don’t know what people expect. We’re just a run of the mill championship club, we’ve had all our best players leave. Our manager buggered off about a week before the season. Our first choice of new manager pulled out quicker than a catholic porn star. We picked up a young, incredibly raw manager from the lower leagues and he had a few days before the season started. Mid table is fine this year. We were all bricking it in August because we had no squad, no manager. We are doing ok and are where we should be.
If people are expecting us to be playing scintillating attacking football and sweeping everyone aside 5-0 it’s not happening. This is notoriously one of the most scrappy and competitive leagues in world football. |
It's not just the fact we aren't winning 5-0 and not playing scintillating football though.... it's the act that it's pretty much the opposite.
We are far better than 16th. We absolutely have a top 6-8 squad without question, we aren't being hamstrung by the players we have, we are being hamstrung by the tactics we use. | |
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| An honest answer from you guys... on 20:47 - Dec 14 with 497 views | NotLoyal |
Cash and Target as displayed by villa tonight is what Martin really wants. |  |
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| An honest answer from you guys... on 20:53 - Dec 14 with 490 views | KeithHaynes |
| An honest answer from you guys... on 20:47 - Dec 14 by NotLoyal |
Cash and Target as displayed by villa tonight is what Martin really wants. |
He wants a supermarket ? |  |
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| An honest answer from you guys... on 21:56 - Dec 14 with 464 views | DJack |
| An honest answer from you guys... on 20:53 - Dec 14 by KeithHaynes |
He wants a supermarket ? |
...for a sweep.
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| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| An honest answer from you guys... on 22:05 - Dec 14 with 458 views | Badlands |
After a good start with Potter's left overs his performances at this time 2019 was the same this season. |  |
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| An honest answer from you guys... on 22:41 - Dec 14 with 437 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| An honest answer from you guys... on 22:05 - Dec 14 by Badlands |
After a good start with Potter's left overs his performances at this time 2019 was the same this season. |
Same in terms of what? | |
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| An honest answer from you guys... on 22:45 - Dec 14 with 436 views | Dr_Parnassus |
This season - 22 games and 27 points. (16th)
Last season - 22 games and 40 points (3rd)
Struggling to see what you mean by the same?
Edit - Oh I see, you mean the year before.
Year before - 22 games and 34 points. After the next game we were joint on points with the 6th placed play-offs on 37 points. [Post edited 14 Dec 2021 22:48]
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