| 3rd Round 22:30 - Aug 24 with 14208 views | daveB |
Warburton is going to go mad about this but next round will be the 21st just after Bristol City at home, we then have West Brom on the Friday |  | | |  |
| 3rd Round on 09:24 - Aug 26 with 2166 views | TW_R |
| 3rd Round on 23:55 - Aug 25 by QPR_Jim |
Opened the thread to find out who we got in the next round and wasn't expecting this debate. The below caught my eye:
"If I met and fell in love with my sweetheart in 1976 (down at the old Bull and Bush, for the sake of argument), she (hopefully) wouldn't be lamenting decades later my nostalgia for that time; in fact, we'd (hopefully) still be celebrating 'where it all started' years later."
It amused me because I can't help but think that you'd not still be together. To expand upon the analogy, it sounds like you'd be arguing with her that she doesn't say what she means any more instead talking in platitudes. She'd then disappear down the gym and you'd be bemoaning the fact she doesn't smoke 40 a day and have a gambling problem like in the good old days. Anyway, maybe I'm being too literal. |
I was thinking the same thing. I've been married for 25 years and my wife and I have developed in various different ways over that time. Having children, career development, more disposal income, development of different hobbies, different music, different cars etc etc. Do we sometimes reminisce about holidays, parties, friends - of course we do. But if I still lived as though it was 1996 we would have been divorced years ago. |  | | |
| 3rd Round on 09:52 - Aug 26 with 2061 views | MrSheen |
As someone who has changed from being a regular to an occasional attender (until this season hopefully) I think I am in a better position to make more of a comparison between eras than someone whose memory is overlaid with thousands of games - rather like how people who visit you every ten years are amazed at how much your kids have changed when to you they look the same as ever.
Watching Saturday's game, I was overwhelmed at how much skill, speed and ambition was shown by every player on both sides, helped no doubt by an immaculate surface. I still have my heart in my mouth when a defender passes to a goalkeeper with an opponent within twenty yards, but everyone else in the ground seems completely relaxed. But when I saw a "limited" player like Dom Ball take a firm hard pass with his back to goal, touch it off first time seemingly blind to the wing and spin to take the instant return, and then play it forward to a team mate in space without taking a touch, I asked myself, is this the same team that played Bircham and Santos in midfield in the same league 15 years ago?
The improvement in fitness, technical ability and style isn't just about us. I saw Carlisle play Forest Green a couple of years ago. Though the same quality wasn't there, the ambition to play rather than just compete was the same. Also, when I hear people wondering how good 70s flair players might be in the modern age, I'll concede that tighter refereeing, dramatically improved medicine and surgery and better pitches would help, but lifestyle? Do you think defenders weren't on the booze, fags and fry-ups too?
Anyway, on to the cup. Everton at home, perfect for us. A great occasion, a good test of where we are and at least a chance of getting through. [Post edited 26 Aug 2021 10:09]
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| 3rd Round on 10:01 - Aug 26 with 2017 views | Faurlinho |
Magnificent. |  | | |
| 3rd Round on 10:08 - Aug 26 with 1991 views | peterlund_dk |
Interesting tangent discussion, comparing players/games from 1976 to today.
I always try to simplify arguments to an almost unusable degree. In the case of player condition, number of games, and the science of physicality, I always go to a Formula 1 analogy.
If a Formula 1 car in the 70s broke off half its front wing, it could most likely still accomplish competitive lap times. If a current Formula 1 car breaks off half its front wing, it will no longer be able to achieve competitive lap times.
Equally, a football team at 80% condition could be competitive in the 70's. A current football team at 80% is no longer competitive.
I'm pleased with the League Cup draw, even though I don't enjoy toffee. [Post edited 26 Aug 2021 10:09]
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| 3rd Round on 10:13 - Aug 26 with 1966 views | onlyrinmoray |
Surely will get a full house for Everton They will sell out their allocation lots of Toffees live down south |  | | |
| 3rd Round on 10:40 - Aug 26 with 1904 views | derbyhoop |
| 3rd Round on 08:07 - Aug 26 by Phildo |
In my lifetime I have seen so much good and bad in football- Hooliganism - Heysel, Poor grounds - Hillsborough, banned from Europe, Racism - terrace pitch and boardroom , Ron Noades anyone? Corruption- Grobbelaar, Clough and too may others, Snooker bigger than football in the 80s, Drug cheats, Sportswashing- Chelsea anyone?, Dodgy owners Butchers and car dealers running VAT fiddles- replaced aby some bad men and some American dicks, English football actually coaching the long ball game for years, The FA, crap pitches ,good pitches, filthy players celebrated, skilful players underused. Cortisone pumped into knees. Just how long would Gerrys career be nowadays? Someone 30 years older than me could no doubt give a litany of problems from their lifetime I suspect - Jimmy Hill trying to get players a fair deal anyone?
It is the peoples game- it usually reflects the society it lives in positive and negative. For me my team will always be the Wilkins Ferdinand's and Wilsons because that was when I was young and thought I was Jack the peanut but you can stick your rose tinted glasses up your Rsss. Many great things about the past but I don't live there anymore.
The modern game? Yes a sh'tshow as Clive often points out at length. Superleague my Aresnal. But fk it I am excited about Everton ( that club that would not allow a black player in until??) so bring it on. QPR sh't but local as the graffiti said- bring it on. |
A decent summary.
It's easy to see how the game has moved on. Better pitches and sports science means that the players are top athletes who are looked after so that they can deliver an enjoyable product that appeals to many.
I have little interest in the Premier League (for now!!!) and the money thing has, IMHO, distorted the competitions. Plural. I hate the SKy insistence that proper football only started in 1993 and the ditched proposal for a European Super League was just another indication that the top/wealthiest clubs across Europe have moved so far away from their fanbase they can't even recognise the downsides.
For now, let us enjoy a vibrant QPR team that seems to be well grounded. If we can get promoted, all well and good. But I won't be that disappointed if we give it a good go and end up falling short. Even if that means losing some of the players who got us into that position. I have enough faith in the current set up that the club will continue to be well run, competitive (at this level) and entertaining. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| 3rd Round on 10:41 - Aug 26 with 1899 views | rsonist |
As far as times changing goes, was just thinking it funny how Brian's reaction on the other thread was "racist Everton". I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people under 30, possibly even 35, wouldn't have any idea what he was referring to. |  | | |
| 3rd Round on 10:45 - Aug 26 with 1871 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| 3rd Round on 10:41 - Aug 26 by rsonist |
As far as times changing goes, was just thinking it funny how Brian's reaction on the other thread was "racist Everton". I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people under 30, possibly even 35, wouldn't have any idea what he was referring to. |
Ya, true! Or at least I hope not.
Christ, they were are a vile club. I hope they've changed. |  |
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| 3rd Round on 10:49 - Aug 26 with 1852 views | rsonist |
| 3rd Round on 10:45 - Aug 26 by BrianMcCarthy |
Ya, true! Or at least I hope not.
Christ, they were are a vile club. I hope they've changed. |
It's been airbrushed remarkably well (possibly just because Everton haven't been worth thinking much about since). Most other clubs with elements of historical bigotry it's remained generally known regardless of its irrelevance since. | | | |
| 3rd Round on 11:07 - Aug 26 with 1788 views | TW_R |
| 3rd Round on 10:08 - Aug 26 by peterlund_dk |
Interesting tangent discussion, comparing players/games from 1976 to today.
I always try to simplify arguments to an almost unusable degree. In the case of player condition, number of games, and the science of physicality, I always go to a Formula 1 analogy.
If a Formula 1 car in the 70s broke off half its front wing, it could most likely still accomplish competitive lap times. If a current Formula 1 car breaks off half its front wing, it will no longer be able to achieve competitive lap times.
Equally, a football team at 80% condition could be competitive in the 70's. A current football team at 80% is no longer competitive.
I'm pleased with the League Cup draw, even though I don't enjoy toffee. [Post edited 26 Aug 2021 10:09]
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Funnily enough, I was just thinking about the developments in F1. So much of the tech developed by these teams have has made it into everyday road cars. ABS, disc brakes, hybrid engines, KERS, semi-automatic gear boxes.
Not only that, the safety developments in F1 have been incredible. Anyone who saw Romain Grosjean get out of his car largely unscathed, having ploughed into a barrier head-on at 150mph, the car being ripped in half and bursting into flames, must accept that progress is a positive thing. | | | |
| 3rd Round on 11:10 - Aug 26 with 1769 views | rsonist |
| 3rd Round on 23:22 - Aug 25 by TacticalR |
'In the 1970s, an average football player ran approximately 4 km per 90-minute game. Today, an analysis of the maximum running distances of players in La Liga and Champions League games shows that the average football player runs approximately 11.4 km in a game (the minimum is 5.6 km; the maximum is 13.7). The largest distances are covered by central midfielders (approx. 12.1 km).'
Steven G. Mandis, What Happened to Serie A: The Rise, Fall and Signs of Revival (2018) |
Leeds are the current smallest squad / hardest running champions of Europe, I'm fairly certain. Still out of both cups at the first hurdle last season though mind. | | | |
| 3rd Round on 11:35 - Aug 26 with 1696 views | Paddyhoops |
| 3rd Round on 00:03 - Aug 26 by Myke |
Wow just tuned into this superb debate - great passion and articulation on all sides. In my view all arguments are equally valid. I am not about to engage on a three thousand word contribution (massive sigh of relief from all viewers), not much more I could add that would be original anyway.
However, I will throw in this final 'food for thought'. I'm 58 , which is not old, but with each passing year, for the past 8 or so, I have found increasing nostalgia in event of my past. I suspect that happens to most of us, events and viewpoints that would have irritated us in the past, suddenly take on a new perspective. It is I believe, a general consensus that we are an ageing fanbase, which is well illustrated on this forum. I am not quite sure what age you are Clive, but I am guessing a little under 40. You have a remarkable grasp and knowledge of all eras of the club and are not remotely ageist in your penmanship, but I think if you were to fast forward 20 years, you may have developed an 'unscientific' fondness for the ways things were in 2021 than how they are 'now'. For me, I am acutely aware of the shortcomings of the '70's -one of the biggest ones which I haven't seen mentioned, was the state of the pitches. Looking at the highlights of last night's games , the pitch was like a billiard table, better looking than the plastic one! Just imagine was Bowles could do on that surfa... oh sorry there I go again. But there were many others, like the crowd trouble, (even though I was safely cocooned from that in Sligo) and the hairstyles! Yet still, I look back on those times with great fondness. When someone lauds Wallace I automatically compare with Gillard or even Wilson. Dieng; Parkes or Seaman and so on. It's an age thing...or maybe they were just better. |
I take it you weren't at at Tyler cup match between Sligo Rovers and Linfield back in the early eighties, myke.
Violence and carnage on a huge scale.
No Rovers fans were involved.
I was glad to get out of there in one piece.
On the subject how some of the 70s players would have fared today.well, I watched the big match revisited last night and considering the pitches weren't that great , I was surprised at the quality of football on display.
Tony Currie was involved though!! | | | |
| 3rd Round on 12:38 - Aug 26 with 1598 views | charmr |
Anyone else thought Everton fans may come in force and want some retribution for the stabbing incident. They turned up at Millwall in full force. | | | |
| 3rd Round on 12:44 - Aug 26 with 1579 views | Rs_Holy |
just realized I'm going to be on holiday for this one  |  | | |
| 3rd Round on 13:29 - Aug 26 with 1466 views | Myke |
| 3rd Round on 11:35 - Aug 26 by Paddyhoops |
I take it you weren't at at Tyler cup match between Sligo Rovers and Linfield back in the early eighties, myke.
Violence and carnage on a huge scale.
No Rovers fans were involved.
I was glad to get out of there in one piece.
On the subject how some of the 70s players would have fared today.well, I watched the big match revisited last night and considering the pitches weren't that great , I was surprised at the quality of football on display.
Tony Currie was involved though!! |
No I was actually working in Denmark at the time.My brother was it - very nasty by all accounts | | | |
| 3rd Round on 14:35 - Aug 26 with 1364 views | Stainrod |
I fear our cup run might have runeth over.. | | | |
| 3rd Round on 15:22 - Aug 26 with 1256 views | TacticalR |
| 3rd Round on 11:35 - Aug 26 by Paddyhoops |
I take it you weren't at at Tyler cup match between Sligo Rovers and Linfield back in the early eighties, myke.
Violence and carnage on a huge scale.
No Rovers fans were involved.
I was glad to get out of there in one piece.
On the subject how some of the 70s players would have fared today.well, I watched the big match revisited last night and considering the pitches weren't that great , I was surprised at the quality of football on display.
Tony Currie was involved though!! |
Tony Currie was Perry Groves' favourite player. In 'Perry Groves' Football Heroes' he says this about running up against Currie on the threadbare pitch at Colchester:
'After his spell at Leeds he moved back south and played for Queens Park Rangers before ending up at Torquay United for half a season in 1984, and that’s when our paths finally crossed. They were in the old Fourth Division and he was the old ‘seasoned pro’ there. I was an up-and-coming youngster at Colchester, and when I read that he’d been signed by Torquay manager Dave Webb I immediately looked at the fixture list to see when Colchester were playing them.
It was a Saturday fixture at our Layer Road ground and I just hoped that he would be in their side. We were out on the pitch early warming up and I kept looking over my shoulder to see if he would be coming out too, which would mean he was playing. After a while, the great man made an appearance. He obviously liked a buffet as when he came out of the dressing room it was more of a waddle than a run, but I didn’t care. I was still thrilled to be on the same pitch as him. But I also didn’t want him to look too embarrassing, as the old Fourth Division was a bit muck and nettles.
I was on the right, all energy and ambition, he was centre-midfield, all ‘been there, done that’. Needless to say, he completely ran the game without even breaking sweat. Our players tried to hustle him, close him down, boot him, everything they could think of, but it made no difference. It looked as though he was in slow motion: he just glided around them and they couldn’t get near to him. It was obvious to everyone that he was just different class.
One thing happened in that game that still sticks in my memory. We played a long ball over the top of their defence and for some reason he was their last man — perhaps he just hadn’t been arsed to get back up field after defending a corner. The ball came to him, and me and Tony Adcock went to close him down in the corner. We thought, We’ve got him — the old bastard ain’t going to get out of there. But he dropped his shoulder as if to give the ball back to the keeper, dummied Tony Adcock and that was Tony done for. I was the next one to engage him and I thought, I’ve got him now — he’s got no chance.
For all those years I’d seen him do the step-overs, I’d wondered how dopey could those defenders be, because it was obvious what would happen. Then it all went into slow motion. He put his left foot around the ball and did it. I moved to the right and the whole stand on that side of the pitch swayed to the right too. We all moved in synch and dropped our right shoulders. At exactly the same moment, he skipped away to his right. I just saw this gliding figure ghost past me, exactly as it had been on the television all those years before. All right, it was probably the 5,000th time he’d done it, but as he moved away I just started clapping. He was one of my heroes and now I had been officially ‘Curried’. How proud I was.
It was March or April so the grass was thin and there were bare patches down the middle and in the goalmouths. It didn’t make any difference to him. He could have played on corrugated iron and his touch would have been fantastic. I never even got a tackle in on him.' |  |
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| 3rd Round on 15:32 - Aug 26 with 1227 views | themodfather |
went to this thread initially to see the hopes of wembley, our chances v everton but it was bogged down with some deep thoughts, some good points etc but little to do with our triumphant march to silverware! or maybe the thread is about the round fury knocks wilder out, again! | | | |
| 3rd Round on 15:38 - Aug 26 with 1207 views | Mick_S |
| 3rd Round on 12:38 - Aug 26 by charmr |
Anyone else thought Everton fans may come in force and want some retribution for the stabbing incident. They turned up at Millwall in full force. |
This crossed my mind only I had it the other way round. Both playing the same night so perhaps they’ll avoid each other. |  |
| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| 3rd Round on 20:46 - Aug 26 with 978 views | Stainrod |
| 3rd Round on 15:22 - Aug 26 by TacticalR |
Tony Currie was Perry Groves' favourite player. In 'Perry Groves' Football Heroes' he says this about running up against Currie on the threadbare pitch at Colchester:
'After his spell at Leeds he moved back south and played for Queens Park Rangers before ending up at Torquay United for half a season in 1984, and that’s when our paths finally crossed. They were in the old Fourth Division and he was the old ‘seasoned pro’ there. I was an up-and-coming youngster at Colchester, and when I read that he’d been signed by Torquay manager Dave Webb I immediately looked at the fixture list to see when Colchester were playing them.
It was a Saturday fixture at our Layer Road ground and I just hoped that he would be in their side. We were out on the pitch early warming up and I kept looking over my shoulder to see if he would be coming out too, which would mean he was playing. After a while, the great man made an appearance. He obviously liked a buffet as when he came out of the dressing room it was more of a waddle than a run, but I didn’t care. I was still thrilled to be on the same pitch as him. But I also didn’t want him to look too embarrassing, as the old Fourth Division was a bit muck and nettles.
I was on the right, all energy and ambition, he was centre-midfield, all ‘been there, done that’. Needless to say, he completely ran the game without even breaking sweat. Our players tried to hustle him, close him down, boot him, everything they could think of, but it made no difference. It looked as though he was in slow motion: he just glided around them and they couldn’t get near to him. It was obvious to everyone that he was just different class.
One thing happened in that game that still sticks in my memory. We played a long ball over the top of their defence and for some reason he was their last man — perhaps he just hadn’t been arsed to get back up field after defending a corner. The ball came to him, and me and Tony Adcock went to close him down in the corner. We thought, We’ve got him — the old bastard ain’t going to get out of there. But he dropped his shoulder as if to give the ball back to the keeper, dummied Tony Adcock and that was Tony done for. I was the next one to engage him and I thought, I’ve got him now — he’s got no chance.
For all those years I’d seen him do the step-overs, I’d wondered how dopey could those defenders be, because it was obvious what would happen. Then it all went into slow motion. He put his left foot around the ball and did it. I moved to the right and the whole stand on that side of the pitch swayed to the right too. We all moved in synch and dropped our right shoulders. At exactly the same moment, he skipped away to his right. I just saw this gliding figure ghost past me, exactly as it had been on the television all those years before. All right, it was probably the 5,000th time he’d done it, but as he moved away I just started clapping. He was one of my heroes and now I had been officially ‘Curried’. How proud I was.
It was March or April so the grass was thin and there were bare patches down the middle and in the goalmouths. It didn’t make any difference to him. He could have played on corrugated iron and his touch would have been fantastic. I never even got a tackle in on him.' |
Great anecdote. Used to love watching Currie down at Rangers. the way he would shout out audibly to Gary Waddock (when Waddock was starting to get "ideas") "give me that f*cking ball", which the young Irishman would do obediently, leaving Currie to spray an inch perfect 40-yarder. No Tony Currie and there would have been no Glen Hoddle imo, he learned it from watching the great TC. | | | |
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