| 3rd Round 22:30 - Aug 24 with 14207 views | daveB |
Warburton is going to go mad about this but next round will be the 21st just after Bristol City at home, we then have West Brom on the Friday |  | | |  |
| 3rd Round on 21:47 - Aug 25 with 2853 views | stainrods_elbow |
| 3rd Round on 21:30 - Aug 25 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Of course there shouldn’t be a compulsory delight, but it seems very one way with your good self and to be honest in world without much cheer at the moment you are ruining one of the rays of sunshine for people.
I just don’t think you are reading to room very well. However, I don’t have to read your posts so perhaps the issue is with me. |
How can my views on anything 'ruin' anyone else's? I'm genuinely perplexed by the very idea. I speak for myself, as I assume others do. If people's joy is real, how can anything or anyone spoil it?
Also no idea what 'reading to room' might mean. I'm a part of the room anyway, rather obviously, so read me! |  |
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| 3rd Round on 22:28 - Aug 25 with 2710 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| 3rd Round on 21:47 - Aug 25 by stainrods_elbow |
How can my views on anything 'ruin' anyone else's? I'm genuinely perplexed by the very idea. I speak for myself, as I assume others do. If people's joy is real, how can anything or anyone spoil it?
Also no idea what 'reading to room' might mean. I'm a part of the room anyway, rather obviously, so read me! |
Just some feedback. Take it or leave it. |  | | |
| 3rd Round on 22:37 - Aug 25 with 2611 views | LongsufferingR |
Came on here to discuss the exciting 3rd round draw.
Blimey. |  | | |
| 3rd Round on 22:39 - Aug 25 with 2580 views | Devon_4_England |
| 3rd Round on 22:37 - Aug 25 by LongsufferingR |
Came on here to discuss the exciting 3rd round draw.
Blimey. |
Decent draw, look forward to giving Rafa some stick! |  | | |
| 3rd Round on 22:52 - Aug 25 with 2482 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
When was the last time we had a tasty draw like this? Chelsea? | | | |
| 3rd Round on 22:57 - Aug 25 with 2452 views | Stainrod |
| 3rd Round on 21:06 - Aug 25 by stainrods_elbow |
Thanks for this. Adel was a one-off, but the swashbuckling days of Bowles, Currie, Stainrod et al are,, for the most part, an increasingly receding memory. Who plays like that any more? There's a (to me depressing) correlation of course between the pragmatism of the modern game and Clive's self-declared pragmatism - the one mirrors the other. In that sense, Clive is very modern and that's why he's running this site, I guess.
Thinking about this thread tonight, I was thinking about how it raises the question of empathy and its limits among a trans-generational fanbase. If I met and fell in love with my sweetheart in 1976 (down at the old Bull and Bush, for the sake of argument), she (hopefully) wouldn't be lamenting decades later my nostalgia for that time; in fact, we'd (hopefully) still be celebrating 'where it all started' years later.
Why should it be any different with a football club? Clive might think I'm being hyper-romantic now, but if so, so be it. Qpr vs Derby, 1976, 1-1, Att. 22, 527 (Givens, pen) is forever etched on my blue and white heart as my 'awakening'. That's why I think he needs to enlarge his empathy. [Post edited 25 Aug 2021 21:12]
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Interesting debate.
Yes the game has probably lost some of that rogue-ish charm. It sounds like we started following the Rs around the same time. Even back then these "flair players" were regarded with suspicion though, reflected in how few of these greats got more than a handful of England caps.
Anyone who smoked and drank heavily wouldn't have the fitness to survive the modern game - look at Jack Wilshire, capped over 30 times by England, now unemployed.
I think it was Ronaldo and Ferguson's management of him that ruined it for those kinds of players. They showed that a player could have the most outrageous skill but also train hard, track back and take care of his body. The result is there to see: Juventus saying they will only sell Ronaldo for £25m - and he is 36!
In some ways the game has actually got more skilful and more in tune with the ideal of those great players. Silky players were hacked to death while endeavour was lauded over skill. The defining image of England players in the early 80s was Terry Butcher carrying on with a blooded headband. Meanwhile, other countries were leaving us for dead because their game was becoming so much more technical and they were properly investing in sports science, fitness, diet monitoring etc. Right up to Warnock's time at Rangers, a defender would risk a b*llocking if he didn't boot it into row z if an opposition striker ventured within 10 feet of him. After finding it absolutely terrifying watching Lummers trying to play us out from the back, I now find this "modern" approach vastly superior football to watch.
BTW, I like to think that those seventies showmen are still with us in spirit - look at Jack Grealish, he has many of the same qualities but just isn't in the betting shop five mins before kick off. He has the swagger but isn't more interested in his ACA than football.
As for squad rotation I think we have the balance about right. if Warbs tried to play Austin for 90 mins every game he would be out injured for an extended spell, it is that simple. Having more subs in a game has, to me, added an extra element of interest. But I agree there is a
kind of obscenity in the likes of Chelsea just racking and stacking players they will never even need.
Finally, re Warbs interviews: Odubaju said that Warbs may appear mild but is well capable of getting the hairdryer out. He just does so in private. Yes he can be a little bland but they say a successful politician repeats the same message until he is so bored he can barely bring himself to say it - and at that point only about 4% of voters would have actually taken in anything he has said. His "taking care of the football" mantra might make for dull listening but it makes for good football. Would much rather that than rows in the camp like when Trevor Francis slagged off Martin "Mad Dog" Allen I think it was for daring to suggest he would quite like to attend the birth of his child than play a game of football... |  | | |
| 3rd Round on 22:59 - Aug 25 with 2420 views | LongsufferingR |
Where's the 3rd round thread again? | | | |
| 3rd Round on 23:11 - Aug 25 with 2343 views | GloryHunter |
We need a 500 word limit on posts. |  | | |
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| 3rd Round on 23:18 - Aug 25 with 2312 views | stainrods_elbow |
| 3rd Round on 22:59 - Aug 25 by LongsufferingR |
Where's the 3rd round thread again? |
Apologies - my fault, I fear, for rather hijacking it (with a bit of help from out friends :-)).
Everton will be interesting., and an excellent gauge for where we stand in the scheme of things. After the Man U and Leicester performances/results in pre-season, we should go into the game to really impose ourselves. I hope Warburton will play as near as possible a full strength side, and suspect he will. | |
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| 3rd Round on 23:18 - Aug 25 with 2318 views | daveB |
| 3rd Round on 22:52 - Aug 25 by BazzaInTheLoft |
When was the last time we had a tasty draw like this? Chelsea? |
Watford the other year was good in the FA Cup | | | |
| 3rd Round on 23:22 - Aug 25 with 2308 views | TacticalR |
'In the 1970s, an average football player ran approximately 4 km per 90-minute game. Today, an analysis of the maximum running distances of players in La Liga and Champions League games shows that the average football player runs approximately 11.4 km in a game (the minimum is 5.6 km; the maximum is 13.7). The largest distances are covered by central midfielders (approx. 12.1 km).'
Steven G. Mandis, What Happened to Serie A: The Rise, Fall and Signs of Revival (2018) |  |
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| 3rd Round on 23:55 - Aug 25 with 2176 views | QPR_Jim |
| 3rd Round on 21:06 - Aug 25 by stainrods_elbow |
Thanks for this. Adel was a one-off, but the swashbuckling days of Bowles, Currie, Stainrod et al are,, for the most part, an increasingly receding memory. Who plays like that any more? There's a (to me depressing) correlation of course between the pragmatism of the modern game and Clive's self-declared pragmatism - the one mirrors the other. In that sense, Clive is very modern and that's why he's running this site, I guess.
Thinking about this thread tonight, I was thinking about how it raises the question of empathy and its limits among a trans-generational fanbase. If I met and fell in love with my sweetheart in 1976 (down at the old Bull and Bush, for the sake of argument), she (hopefully) wouldn't be lamenting decades later my nostalgia for that time; in fact, we'd (hopefully) still be celebrating 'where it all started' years later.
Why should it be any different with a football club? Clive might think I'm being hyper-romantic now, but if so, so be it. Qpr vs Derby, 1976, 1-1, Att. 22, 527 (Givens, pen) is forever etched on my blue and white heart as my 'awakening'. That's why I think he needs to enlarge his empathy. [Post edited 25 Aug 2021 21:12]
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Opened the thread to find out who we got in the next round and wasn't expecting this debate. The below caught my eye:
"If I met and fell in love with my sweetheart in 1976 (down at the old Bull and Bush, for the sake of argument), she (hopefully) wouldn't be lamenting decades later my nostalgia for that time; in fact, we'd (hopefully) still be celebrating 'where it all started' years later."
It amused me because I can't help but think that you'd not still be together. To expand upon the analogy, it sounds like you'd be arguing with her that she doesn't say what she means any more instead talking in platitudes. She'd then disappear down the gym and you'd be bemoaning the fact she doesn't smoke 40 a day and have a gambling problem like in the good old days. Anyway, maybe I'm being too literal. |  | | |
| 3rd Round on 00:00 - Aug 26 with 2155 views | DavieQPR |
Came on here to read a forum and found myself ignoring a book. |  | | |
| 3rd Round on 00:03 - Aug 26 with 2140 views | Myke |
Wow just tuned into this superb debate - great passion and articulation on all sides. In my view all arguments are equally valid. I am not about to engage on a three thousand word contribution (massive sigh of relief from all viewers), not much more I could add that would be original anyway.
However, I will throw in this final 'food for thought'. I'm 58 , which is not old, but with each passing year, for the past 8 or so, I have found increasing nostalgia in event of my past. I suspect that happens to most of us, events and viewpoints that would have irritated us in the past, suddenly take on a new perspective. It is I believe, a general consensus that we are an ageing fanbase, which is well illustrated on this forum. I am not quite sure what age you are Clive, but I am guessing a little under 40. You have a remarkable grasp and knowledge of all eras of the club and are not remotely ageist in your penmanship, but I think if you were to fast forward 20 years, you may have developed an 'unscientific' fondness for the ways things were in 2021 than how they are 'now'. For me, I am acutely aware of the shortcomings of the '70's -one of the biggest ones which I haven't seen mentioned, was the state of the pitches. Looking at the highlights of last night's games , the pitch was like a billiard table, better looking than the plastic one! Just imagine was Bowles could do on that surfa... oh sorry there I go again. But there were many others, like the crowd trouble, (even though I was safely cocooned from that in Sligo) and the hairstyles! Yet still, I look back on those times with great fondness. When someone lauds Wallace I automatically compare with Gillard or even Wilson. Dieng; Parkes or Seaman and so on. It's an age thing...or maybe they were just better. | | | |
| 3rd Round on 03:12 - Aug 26 with 1916 views | Boston |
Bring on the ‘Toffee Noses’. | |
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| 3rd Round on 05:14 - Aug 26 with 1845 views | nix |
| 3rd Round on 00:03 - Aug 26 by Myke |
Wow just tuned into this superb debate - great passion and articulation on all sides. In my view all arguments are equally valid. I am not about to engage on a three thousand word contribution (massive sigh of relief from all viewers), not much more I could add that would be original anyway.
However, I will throw in this final 'food for thought'. I'm 58 , which is not old, but with each passing year, for the past 8 or so, I have found increasing nostalgia in event of my past. I suspect that happens to most of us, events and viewpoints that would have irritated us in the past, suddenly take on a new perspective. It is I believe, a general consensus that we are an ageing fanbase, which is well illustrated on this forum. I am not quite sure what age you are Clive, but I am guessing a little under 40. You have a remarkable grasp and knowledge of all eras of the club and are not remotely ageist in your penmanship, but I think if you were to fast forward 20 years, you may have developed an 'unscientific' fondness for the ways things were in 2021 than how they are 'now'. For me, I am acutely aware of the shortcomings of the '70's -one of the biggest ones which I haven't seen mentioned, was the state of the pitches. Looking at the highlights of last night's games , the pitch was like a billiard table, better looking than the plastic one! Just imagine was Bowles could do on that surfa... oh sorry there I go again. But there were many others, like the crowd trouble, (even though I was safely cocooned from that in Sligo) and the hairstyles! Yet still, I look back on those times with great fondness. When someone lauds Wallace I automatically compare with Gillard or even Wilson. Dieng; Parkes or Seaman and so on. It's an age thing...or maybe they were just better. |
Same age as you Myke but not for me. I couldn't stand going back to the seventies. Appalling hair cuts, awful coffee and Garfunkel's steak houses as the height of sophistication. No thanks.
I also wouldn't want to go back to the preponderance of old-style Ron managers, racism, and violence on the terraces. I love how we're playing football, and, like Clive, don't want to have players in wheelchairs in their 50s and think rotation is a small price to pay for that.
The greater sway money has on the game is a real pity but I still love being a QPR fan, even not in the Prem. Incidentally I think the better style of football and tiny bit of success has enthused a few younger fans. Definitely noticed more groups of twenty somethings than in recent seasons. It's great to see and marvellous for the noise levels. |  | | |
| 3rd Round on 06:12 - Aug 26 with 1784 views | swisscottage |
| 3rd Round on 21:06 - Aug 25 by stainrods_elbow |
Thanks for this. Adel was a one-off, but the swashbuckling days of Bowles, Currie, Stainrod et al are,, for the most part, an increasingly receding memory. Who plays like that any more? There's a (to me depressing) correlation of course between the pragmatism of the modern game and Clive's self-declared pragmatism - the one mirrors the other. In that sense, Clive is very modern and that's why he's running this site, I guess.
Thinking about this thread tonight, I was thinking about how it raises the question of empathy and its limits among a trans-generational fanbase. If I met and fell in love with my sweetheart in 1976 (down at the old Bull and Bush, for the sake of argument), she (hopefully) wouldn't be lamenting decades later my nostalgia for that time; in fact, we'd (hopefully) still be celebrating 'where it all started' years later.
Why should it be any different with a football club? Clive might think I'm being hyper-romantic now, but if so, so be it. Qpr vs Derby, 1976, 1-1, Att. 22, 527 (Givens, pen) is forever etched on my blue and white heart as my 'awakening'. That's why I think he needs to enlarge his empathy. [Post edited 25 Aug 2021 21:12]
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Seriously have you not been watching us for the last three years.
If the likes of Eze, Chair, Willock don't excite you with their triangles, dribbling, tricks, back-heels, shooting, scoring in the same manner as Bowles, Stainrod, Currie etc I'm bemused.
The only difference is that their work rate, approach to the game and training is superior to the majority of those players mentioned and the game these days has moved one tactically and professionally in speed and the fitness required.
Too much wallowing in nostalgia is not good for ones mental state of mind. | | | |
| 3rd Round on 07:17 - Aug 26 with 1683 views | Dorse |
For what it is worth, Eurovision is better now than it was in the seventies.
I like to be helpful. [Post edited 26 Aug 2021 7:20]
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| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| 3rd Round on 07:35 - Aug 26 with 1620 views | kingsburyR |
Who did we get???????? |  |
| Dont know why we bother. .... but we do! |
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| 3rd Round on 07:46 - Aug 26 with 1582 views | gazza1 |
| 3rd Round on 07:35 - Aug 26 by kingsburyR |
Who did we get???????? |
EVERTON(H).......very happy with the draw, Premier side, beatable but tough, interesting, challenging & lots more. | | | |
| 3rd Round on 07:57 - Aug 26 with 1540 views | EastR |
| 3rd Round on 07:17 - Aug 26 by Dorse |
For what it is worth, Eurovision is better now than it was in the seventies.
I like to be helpful. [Post edited 26 Aug 2021 7:20]
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Yep
I miss it all so much a couple of nights a week I turn all the lights off, light some candles and sit down to read by the glow of the coal fire. I can't see the bottom of the garden because of the smog, and gets a bit chesty, but it's worth it for the trip down memory lane. | |
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| 3rd Round on 08:07 - Aug 26 with 1504 views | Phildo |
In my lifetime I have seen so much good and bad in football- Hooliganism - Heysel, Poor grounds - Hillsborough, banned from Europe, Racism - terrace pitch and boardroom , Ron Noades anyone? Corruption- Grobbelaar, Clough and too may others, Snooker bigger than football in the 80s, Drug cheats, Sportswashing- Chelsea anyone?, Dodgy owners Butchers and car dealers running VAT fiddles- replaced aby some bad men and some American dicks, English football actually coaching the long ball game for years, The FA, crap pitches ,good pitches, filthy players celebrated, skilful players underused. Cortisone pumped into knees. Just how long would Gerrys career be nowadays? Someone 30 years older than me could no doubt give a litany of problems from their lifetime I suspect - Jimmy Hill trying to get players a fair deal anyone?
It is the peoples game- it usually reflects the society it lives in positive and negative. For me my team will always be the Wilkins Ferdinand's and Wilsons because that was when I was young and thought I was Jack the peanut but you can stick your rose tinted glasses up your Rsss. Many great things about the past but I don't live there anymore.
The modern game? Yes a sh'tshow as Clive often points out at length. Superleague my Aresnal. But fk it I am excited about Everton ( that club that would not allow a black player in until??) so bring it on. QPR sh't but local as the graffiti said- bring it on. |  | | |
| 3rd Round on 08:35 - Aug 26 with 1391 views | distortR |
still haven't read much of the thread, but I can imagine Hoo's calling Warburton into his office, sitting him down, showing him this and shouting, "This, THIS, is why we don't do cups! See what happens if we get past the second round? See what you've started?" | | | |
| 3rd Round on 09:04 - Aug 26 with 1285 views | TW_R |
| 3rd Round on 17:49 - Aug 25 by Northernr |
I will engage with this once, and then return to taking the pis out of it.
It is not 1976 any more, it says that on the calendar. I think we probably agree so far, though, sometimes, reading your posts, I'm not even sure about this.
I actually also agree, and have written many times for this site, that cup competitions have been horribly devalued to the point of extinction, in favour of league competitions those doing the devaluing have no hope of winning. The League Cup, and increasingly the FA Cup, are being ruined not by Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Man Utd etc, who still tend to contest the majority of the finals, but by Burnley, West Ham, Palace, QPR, Birmingham, Blackburn etc, playing weakened teams in them because of some perceived threat to their precious league form, even though they've no chance of winning the league. Burnley ditching out of the only thing they're ever likely to win for the rest of time, because they think it might stop them finishing seventeenth in the Premier League, which is now the sum total of their ambition. Football should be about medals, and trophies, and winning things, and Wembley, and getting into Europe. Not starting every year with the sole purpose of finishing fourth bottom, banking the money, getting out of the cups in the first round, and getting off to Mykonos as soon as possible. It's also been shown, and again I write this a lot in my previews and reports, that cup runs can be momentum and confidence building, for teams and crowds, and Brentford (sorry I have to mention them here because it's a fact they got to the semi-final last year, but please don't fixate on this word of the post again), Newcastle, Bournemouth, Leicester and Brighton all combined promotion from this league with a run to the League Cup quarter finals.
I think we probably agree on all this together so far, right? We probably part a little on things like QPR's 2010/11, where the aim was promotion, and the promotion hung on people like Clint Hill, Shaun Derry and Heidar Helguson who absolutely did not need the extra games. That team lost Jamie Mackie one year, and Ale Faurlin the next, in cup games they didn't need, to serious injury. I would potentially argue, given the aim this year, and the size of our squad, that we're in that territory again now. Johansen, Austin are this year's Derry and Hill, talismanic figures who need to be bubble wrapped. Willock and Chair this year's Mackie and Faurlin. The difference here is QPR would be ditching out in favour of something they can realistically win, as opposed to Schteve nonsing out of that Blackpool game the other year to continue our quest for sixteenth with a thrashing at Swansea at the weekend anyway. Which, like you, I was furious about, and wrote as much.
Where we certainly disagree is your propensity to don the pipe and slippers and turn every argument about everything into a nostalgic trawl back 45 years. You do it over fixture pile up, squad rotation, manager interviews and more. Well back in 1976 teams used to play 80 games a season with squads of 14. Well back in 1976 managers would come out afterwards and call their 21 year old full back a cnt publicly. (Exageration for effect).
It is not 1976 any more. If you don't want to believe the sport has moved on and evolved, is faster, is more fitness and physicality based, then fine. You're wrong, but fine. What you cannot deny is science has moved on. We understand far more about the human body and the human mind. We understand that you can't put players through 60 game seasons in squads of 14 any more without doing lasting damage. We understand you can't have players heading footballs that weigh half a tonne, and soak up the rain water, any more. Yeh in the 1970s you did a 60 game season with 14 players, and the "physio" was some bloke who ran on with a bucket of icy cold water and a sponge, woop de do, bully for you, when men were men, grrrrrr. Well, an enormous proportion of those poor men now suffer crippling injuries in their latter life, knee, hip, ankle problems that are never going away, chronic pain. More and more and more and more of them have dementia and alzheimers. You want to flog Ilias Chair to death for your entertainment for the next ten years, have him retire way earlier than players do nowadays, and then have his mrs push him around town on wheels from the age of 50 onwards then that's your business, but you should reflect on it.
You want the manager to come out and call the players out publicly, like the great characters of the past did, because you find the post match interviews boring and wish Malcolm Allison was still around. They don't do it because it doesn't work. If it did Peter Reid would still have a job, throwing crockery at 19 year old boys and screaming his fcking head off. If it worked, people would do it. It doesn't, so they don't.
They don't do any of this any more, because it doesn't work any more. The tiny squads, the no squad rotation, the same team every week, the public calling out of players, this was a thing once in the same way that they put lead in our petrol in 1976, and they put asbestos in the roof of power stations and had people like my grandad pull it all out with a garden rake in 1976, and we cooked with lard in 1976, and kids went to bonfire night parties in shell suits and so on and on and on and on. Time moves on, science moves on, knowledge moves on. We learn and we improve.
And if I'm wrong, why is nobody doing it any more? Why isn't there a single professional football club anywhere in the world trying to do a 60 game season with 14 players? Why isn't there a manager at the top of the game who regularly comes out after games and slags his own players off?
Because it doesn't work. It doesn't work because 1976 was 45 fcking years ago and things change. Whatever fcking Beckett may say. |
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| 3rd Round on 09:19 - Aug 26 with 1228 views | knocker |
Big chance we will be tv game on the Tuesday. Man u, Leicester, west ham, Tottenham, and Chelsea all play on the Sunday so will surely play their cup games on Wednesday. Looking at remaining games, think it might be us or Fulham for Tuesday game. | | | |
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