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Finishes with us raising the urn in Oz. Gorgeous day for it, anyone get tix? After having loads of games sorted last year I thought it prudent not to bother this season.
Will be listening to TMS, just hope they have anyone in place of Daniel Norcross whom aggravates me something chronic.
All things said and done you've still got to hand it too the Indian cricket team, they've beaten us up in our own back yard, good and proper. From the moment Pant was out this morning I thought It was our win to lose (which it was) But India still had to do the business with the ball which they done, fair play to them.
My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic.
All things said and done you've still got to hand it too the Indian cricket team, they've beaten us up in our own back yard, good and proper. From the moment Pant was out this morning I thought It was our win to lose (which it was) But India still had to do the business with the ball which they done, fair play to them.
India are best team in the world IMO whatever the Test Championship result (though I was supporting NZ)
Fantastic pace bowling attack with more depth than us plus best two spinners in the world. Huge depth in the batting with nice balance of blockers and swishers.
Frighteningly they can get better. I think Pant has a defensive game in him and there biggest weakness is their tail-end batting, yet today they declared after 89 runs for the 8th wicket, God help us if they start being good at that.
Still no excuse for losing like that though. Got away with 1st test, had chance to go one-up; blew it. Could lose 4-0 IMO.
Incredible that the only two results expected this morning were an England win or a draw and yet we contrived to lose by a big margin. A great effort by India but why can't we bowl at the wicket to tailenders? To allow them to add about 90 runs when experts claim their tail is worse than ours is criminal.
Not only did we start badly but ended in a shambles going from 120 for 7 to 120 all out. Compared to Indian's tail we can't score runs or defend the wicket. No resistance whatsoever.
We lost it with average bowling and poor captaincy this morning - yet again inability to finish off the tail (and this was a crap tail, stats-wise). We know our batting chasing any modest+ total is simply not good enough. Never want to see Sibley or Burns open again, but am completely without an answer who takes their place.
It's a massive problem and another drubbing in Oz beckons.
Feel massively sorry for Root. The only batsman of serious threat (alright maybe Bairstow too) in that team who's is expected to carry the team every.single.time. I 'm not convinced he wily enough as captain either, but again i have no solution as to is.
We lost it with average bowling and poor captaincy this morning - yet again inability to finish off the tail (and this was a crap tail, stats-wise). We know our batting chasing any modest+ total is simply not good enough. Never want to see Sibley or Burns open again, but am completely without an answer who takes their place.
It's a massive problem and another drubbing in Oz beckons.
Feel massively sorry for Root. The only batsman of serious threat (alright maybe Bairstow too) in that team who's is expected to carry the team every.single.time. I 'm not convinced he wily enough as captain either, but again i have no solution as to is.
All pretty depressing.
Burns got a very good 49 in the 1st innings. He's not great but he's OK and better than anyone else we've had to open since Cook. As you say there's no obvious replacement (Burns was best county opener for absolutely years before he got capped) so we'd be mad to drop him.
Hameed's the obvious one to replace Sibley and based on his first go with England I reckon he's good enough and the right type of player but he's been badly messed up at Lancs and the jury's out on whether he's recovered. I'd stick him in anyway because this is our last chance to find out before the Ashes.
I think there is hope in the middle order - Bairstow, Ali and Buttler all played sensibly, stuck around and got runs - nothing great but none of them have been playing red ball cricket so you've got to expect rustiness. They've all got test centuries in the past, I think we have to keep them in and they'll get better. One of Pope, Malan or Vince at 3 would be my call.
India are best team in the world IMO whatever the Test Championship result (though I was supporting NZ)
Fantastic pace bowling attack with more depth than us plus best two spinners in the world. Huge depth in the batting with nice balance of blockers and swishers.
Frighteningly they can get better. I think Pant has a defensive game in him and there biggest weakness is their tail-end batting, yet today they declared after 89 runs for the 8th wicket, God help us if they start being good at that.
Still no excuse for losing like that though. Got away with 1st test, had chance to go one-up; blew it. Could lose 4-0 IMO.
I'm an India fan, but actually would disagree with a lot of this
I reckon we are possibly the most overrated team in the world. Our 3-4-5 are like the early 2010s when Dravid- Tendulkar and Laxman all started to decline at the same time. Great players like Tendulkar were able to squeak out 60s and 70s just by sheer grit, but hte fluency that made them great was long gone.... Pujara, Kohli and Rahane have 1 century between them since 2019 which is shocking... i think its time for young blood like Agarwal and Gill to get into the team
the bowling is good, but not great. ashwin is world class, but jadeja cant take wickets outside of india (1 wicket in 3 tests in england this summer). bumrah is good, but inconsistent and a bit overrated. Siraj is an unpolished gem who can become world class
India does have incredible spirit and takes confidence from Kohli. His captaincy leaves a bit to be desired from a tactical perspective, but he fills all of his players with self-belief. Compare that to the likes of Sibley, Hameed etc who all look terrified of failing. Whereas a player like Pant (who does have defensive technique btw, watch the first half of his Gabba innings) is free to express himself, most English players will get absolutely slaughtered by the media and fans if they get out playing a shot... and whereas India try to win matches, England so often seem to just want to not lose (like the first NZ test)... other than the wily bowlers, the only guy with a bit of balls on the team is stokes.....
I'm an India fan, but actually would disagree with a lot of this
I reckon we are possibly the most overrated team in the world. Our 3-4-5 are like the early 2010s when Dravid- Tendulkar and Laxman all started to decline at the same time. Great players like Tendulkar were able to squeak out 60s and 70s just by sheer grit, but hte fluency that made them great was long gone.... Pujara, Kohli and Rahane have 1 century between them since 2019 which is shocking... i think its time for young blood like Agarwal and Gill to get into the team
the bowling is good, but not great. ashwin is world class, but jadeja cant take wickets outside of india (1 wicket in 3 tests in england this summer). bumrah is good, but inconsistent and a bit overrated. Siraj is an unpolished gem who can become world class
India does have incredible spirit and takes confidence from Kohli. His captaincy leaves a bit to be desired from a tactical perspective, but he fills all of his players with self-belief. Compare that to the likes of Sibley, Hameed etc who all look terrified of failing. Whereas a player like Pant (who does have defensive technique btw, watch the first half of his Gabba innings) is free to express himself, most English players will get absolutely slaughtered by the media and fans if they get out playing a shot... and whereas India try to win matches, England so often seem to just want to not lose (like the first NZ test)... other than the wily bowlers, the only guy with a bit of balls on the team is stokes.....
The scary thing is if the ECB do implement changes to focus again on Test Cricket the fruits won't be seen for 7 or 8'years. Meanwhile 20 20 and the hundred go from strength to strength. I've heard all the arguments but IMO The Hundred is totally irrelevant and should be scrapped. I'm almost hoping the Ashes is postponed, it will be a massacre.
Incredible that the only two results expected this morning were an England win or a draw and yet we contrived to lose by a big margin. A great effort by India but why can't we bowl at the wicket to tailenders? To allow them to add about 90 runs when experts claim their tail is worse than ours is criminal.
Not only did we start badly but ended in a shambles going from 120 for 7 to 120 all out. Compared to Indian's tail we can't score runs or defend the wicket. No resistance whatsoever.
We badly miss Ben Stokes with his all round game.
Exactly my thoughts mate.Those 3 wooden things at either end of a 22 yard strip is what tailenders struggle to defend,so we treat them like opening batsmen and hope to get them caught instead of bowled or lbw. How many good Yorkers could they keep out before they make a mistake?
I'm an India fan, but actually would disagree with a lot of this
I reckon we are possibly the most overrated team in the world. Our 3-4-5 are like the early 2010s when Dravid- Tendulkar and Laxman all started to decline at the same time. Great players like Tendulkar were able to squeak out 60s and 70s just by sheer grit, but hte fluency that made them great was long gone.... Pujara, Kohli and Rahane have 1 century between them since 2019 which is shocking... i think its time for young blood like Agarwal and Gill to get into the team
the bowling is good, but not great. ashwin is world class, but jadeja cant take wickets outside of india (1 wicket in 3 tests in england this summer). bumrah is good, but inconsistent and a bit overrated. Siraj is an unpolished gem who can become world class
India does have incredible spirit and takes confidence from Kohli. His captaincy leaves a bit to be desired from a tactical perspective, but he fills all of his players with self-belief. Compare that to the likes of Sibley, Hameed etc who all look terrified of failing. Whereas a player like Pant (who does have defensive technique btw, watch the first half of his Gabba innings) is free to express himself, most English players will get absolutely slaughtered by the media and fans if they get out playing a shot... and whereas India try to win matches, England so often seem to just want to not lose (like the first NZ test)... other than the wily bowlers, the only guy with a bit of balls on the team is stokes.....
Interesting analysis.
But part of why I think India are best is that they do have that young blood coming through, as we saw in Australia.
"Best" and "overrated" are all about opinions but sport's a results game and two of the toughest places to win away from home are Australia and England (and India's the third!). India have won in Aussie, if they can finally win a series here it is hard to argue with the results.
India destroyed us and they didn't even need Ashwin to do it.
And what is it with England and spin bowlers? We haven't had a genuinely world class test spinner since Swann and Derek Underwood is arguably our most recent top quality mystery spinner.
I think we are overrated. If Root and Anderson retired tomorrow, we would be left with a second tier side.
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
India were sensational in the field and with the ball yesterday, but my word Kohli's behaviour was objectionable
What exactly did he do wrong? Sledge Robinson who has spent the first few innings sledging Indian batsman and giving batsman like Jadeja a send-off?
This is one of the most boring throughlines of England-India series. When England lose, a number of fans will make the predictable comment of of "good team, but the captain's behavior blah blah". As if Kohli or Indian fans give a toss what some disgruntled fans fishing for an angle to tarnish India's win have to say...
Ironically, the same English fans who would've absolutely trolled him for dropping the Buttler catch had England drawn the match, are the same ones who will predictably cry about sportsmanship when they lose
The English fans have an unhealthy obsession with disliking Kohli, which in my opinion is largely based on subconscious bias- Kohli is incredibly aggressive, but so are many other world class athletes, including in cricket. But God forbid an Asian have some alpha characteristics and gives it back more than he gets it, then you start to hear comments like these.
Everything negative you have to say about Kohli can easily be said about Jimmy Anderson, but because our society is conditioned to seeing behavior like this from people like Jimmy Anderson, its not considered "objectionable"
What exactly did he do wrong? Sledge Robinson who has spent the first few innings sledging Indian batsman and giving batsman like Jadeja a send-off?
This is one of the most boring throughlines of England-India series. When England lose, a number of fans will make the predictable comment of of "good team, but the captain's behavior blah blah". As if Kohli or Indian fans give a toss what some disgruntled fans fishing for an angle to tarnish India's win have to say...
Ironically, the same English fans who would've absolutely trolled him for dropping the Buttler catch had England drawn the match, are the same ones who will predictably cry about sportsmanship when they lose
The English fans have an unhealthy obsession with disliking Kohli, which in my opinion is largely based on subconscious bias- Kohli is incredibly aggressive, but so are many other world class athletes, including in cricket. But God forbid an Asian have some alpha characteristics and gives it back more than he gets it, then you start to hear comments like these.
Everything negative you have to say about Kohli can easily be said about Jimmy Anderson, but because our society is conditioned to seeing behavior like this from people like Jimmy Anderson, its not considered "objectionable"
[Post edited 17 Aug 2021 16:46]
Wow, you got a lot out of one word, including insinuating that I have a subconscious racist tendency.
First of all, I'm not an England fan. I'm Irish, i just follow England cos we suck at test cricket which is the only format I like. I've been on record as not liking a lot of their behaviour too. That 09-11 team had a garbage attitude imo.
As a grassroots player who's been playing for 10 years, I see the standards at my level fall every single year without fail. And it's all cos they take their cues from the top. So when the captain of the most followed team in the world starts running along the boundary cupping his ears and doing shush noises (at Lords of all places lol), jumping up on the down on the spot in the slips like a child, gobbing off at everyone non stop, constantly badgering the officials - it's hard not to feel disheartened that I'll see in my park league next season.
Don't even know why he was doing it, India's bowlers was running a freight train through that England batting.
Dress it up as sour grapes and argue with the imaginary straw man in your head all you want - I know what I saw and I know it will be me taking that grief wondering why I bother next year.
And I consider that a very measured reply given the tripe you just threw at me all told
Wow, you got a lot out of one word, including insinuating that I have a subconscious racist tendency.
First of all, I'm not an England fan. I'm Irish, i just follow England cos we suck at test cricket which is the only format I like. I've been on record as not liking a lot of their behaviour too. That 09-11 team had a garbage attitude imo.
As a grassroots player who's been playing for 10 years, I see the standards at my level fall every single year without fail. And it's all cos they take their cues from the top. So when the captain of the most followed team in the world starts running along the boundary cupping his ears and doing shush noises (at Lords of all places lol), jumping up on the down on the spot in the slips like a child, gobbing off at everyone non stop, constantly badgering the officials - it's hard not to feel disheartened that I'll see in my park league next season.
Don't even know why he was doing it, India's bowlers was running a freight train through that England batting.
Dress it up as sour grapes and argue with the imaginary straw man in your head all you want - I know what I saw and I know it will be me taking that grief wondering why I bother next year.
And I consider that a very measured reply given the tripe you just threw at me all told
You think that the behavior of grown adult males playing Sunday league cricket is worse because of the antics of a foreign captain who they see on the television once every four years when India tours England or vice versa? I play Sunday league cricket, too, and half the players on both teams show up hungover and smoke/drink during the match. The notion that adult males playing Mickey Mouse standard cricket take their cues from a guy representing the hopes and dreams of his nation at the top standard of the sport is comically off-base- and, to the extent true, is more a reflection of the mental capacity of the guys you play with and against.
But lets actually accept as a starting point that adult males take their cues from international cricketers. What does Kohli captaining the most followed team in the world have to do with the behavior of adults playing Sunday cricket in England- or do you play your Sunday league cricket in India? If anything, wouldn't club players take their cues from the players who they actually see all the time on TV (i.e., the English cricketers)?
Also, suggesting some linear correlation b/w the consistently declining standards of your sunday league cricket and the antics of the captain of the most followed team in the world imply that (i) Kohli's antics are getting worse (they've been the same, if anything less aggressive, since 2014) and (ii) those league cricketers are closely following Indian national cricket, when in actuality, Indian cricket matches are hardly ever aired in England. Both these assumptions are clearly false, so the correlation is clearly non-existant.
Lets take your other points in turn: -Cupping his ears and shushing the crowd? Yes, this is not my cup of tea, but he also cops an incredible amount of abuse from English crowds. I was at both days 3 and 4 of the Lords test, and Kohli was being taunted for everything, including reviews, etc. I'm sure he was abused for his dropped catch- who honestly cares? -Jumping up and down like a child in the slips. You realize he's playing a game? Its called enthusiasm. Are you one of those miserable guys who hates goal celebrations and footballers kissing their badges, too? -Gobbing off at everyone nonstop? He only was sledging Anderson and Robinson, both of whom were giving it quite good when India was batting. I actually think its admirable to see a captain stand up for his teammates. -Constantly badgering the officials? That's not true. The guy is freaking intense- he talks to everyone in that manner when he's playing.
Re the outcome: India had to take 10 wickets in only 60 overs on a very flat pitch (that India's useless tailenders had just scored 100+ runs on), having conceded nearly 400 runs across 140 overs in the first innings and over 300 runs in the second innings of the first test. England had proper batmsan until no. 9- yes, india ended up winning with quite a few balls to spare, but a lot of that was due to the mental pressure that India's bowlers were able to apply to the english batsman. Kohli brought an aggression and enthusiasm to the final innings, which clearly pumped up our bowlers, intimidated the English batsmen and got us a result. That's leadership.
As for my point, I stand by the premise re subconscious bias. It may not be the case for you and I never suggested it was (though, ironically, you completely missed the point by saying you dont have a subconscious bias). My point is that because we as a society are not conditioned to seeing Indian guys behave in such an aggressive manner, it creates more dissonance- no different than how assertive women are perceived by others.
It might've been a measured response- but, as illustrated above, it was not particularly logical.
I think ultimately England tried fighting fire with fire and came unstuck.
When Bumrah came to the crease the England players focused more on giving him grief than getting him and the remaining batsmen out, and lost their grip on the match as a result.
Of course as an England fan it was disappointing to lose but it was a great Test match.
@qprd - I didn't say I didn't have a subconscious bias - merely that you insinuated that I do. Likewise you saying that the people I play with can't watch much Indian cricket when tbh only around 60% of them are English.
The difference here seems to be I'm accepting my subjective views are just that, whilst you are presenting your opinions as objective reality. You also seem to think I'm putting all the world's ills on Kohli's shoulders. I was not.
Cheers for all the insults though. Have a great day, here's to an interesting 3rd test
@qprd - I didn't say I didn't have a subconscious bias - merely that you insinuated that I do. Likewise you saying that the people I play with can't watch much Indian cricket when tbh only around 60% of them are English.
The difference here seems to be I'm accepting my subjective views are just that, whilst you are presenting your opinions as objective reality. You also seem to think I'm putting all the world's ills on Kohli's shoulders. I was not.
Cheers for all the insults though. Have a great day, here's to an interesting 3rd test
I wouldn't bother getting involved, whenever India play he gets quite aggressive and defensive. Presumably his unconscious bias is nagging at him?
Probably going to be an unpopular view but I think the game of cricket has come on leaps and bounds as a spectator sport, primarily in limited overs formats but its spilling over into test cricket as well.
Up until the last 5 years or so I wouldnt have been as committed to the test series's as previously apart from maybe the ashes but the exposure of the IPL, big bash etc means i am much more engaged and informed about the players not just of the England team but the others as well, I know most of the Indian players and their personalities as well as the english ones. The same goes for other nations as well.
the time of cucumber sandwiches and polite appeals is over and i understand why some people will lament this. but the game and its popularity has been invigorated by the overt increase in intensity.
Kohli plays right on the edge of what is currently acceptable but his joy in winning and his dismay at defeat is in my opinion a plus rather than a minus
The Rabbitholebd highlights videos (on YouTube) of the very recent Bangladesh v Australia T20s are worth watching in my humble opinion.
It's a very close series, with a lot of needle and lots of battling performances. If you can be bothered to watch them, you might like the surprising, and possibly unique, bowling performance by one of the Aussies in the third game.
Here's the first match:
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
Ive said it for years, I just cant stand Kohli. I think hes a great cricketer but an absolute b3ll3nd and I just cant warm to him. The way he carries on really grinds my gears, there is something to be said about how much his getting in officials ears has a serious influence on the game. Those marginal calls that end up in a dismisal due to "umpires call" couldve possible gone the other way. Most players deploy this tactic but I just feel that with Kohli is ratchet up a notch. A part of me feels like he would get much harder time if he was captaining anyone other than India.
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