| So..what now? 09:39 - Apr 23 with 15584 views | loftus77 |
The morning after. The 2018/19 season is over - with 2 'close season' games to go.
Firstly. Let’s stop having a go, just for a second. A sincere well done to Les Ferdinand, John Eustace the management staff and all the players this season. The priority of staying in this elite league (the top flight of English football, as opposed to the irrelevant International conglomerate that is the Prem Lge) ) has been achieved. We have to fully acknowledge that. Just ask Rotherham and Bolton fans how they are feeling today. That’s not us. Thank you Rangers.
However, what in the ‘sam holy hill’ do we do now?
We all know that the lights on the ‘relegation dashboard’ for 2019/20 are already all flashing bright red. The parachute payments are gone. We are absorbing FFP consisting of one of the biggest fines in world sport. We have no manager in place. We have a crop of decent young players around the place requiring leadership on-and-off the field in one of the most brutal, competitive, leagues in the world if their fragility is not to be exposed. Our best player (Luke Freeman), clearly a Championship standard midfielder, will almost certainly be offski (Fulham is my bet). The rest are League One standard at best — and that is no criticism. The punters aren’t daft - empty seats abound, not out of disloyalty but probably weary cynicism. The upper tier of the School End is going to be a seriously happy place next season unless something fairly major happens.
In a sense, it’s all so annoying. Since 2015 we have been well run. Good decisions have been made: Warren Farm, new plans for a stadium, excellent community work, proper scouting for young players. IMHO, a lot of really good stuff is going on at QPR. It’s just the 20 years of mis-management from 1995-2015 coupled with the strength of the current Championship which casts a huge shadow over our ability to soldier on at this level in the short and medium term.
I guess, as fans, all we can do is get behind the team form August and fully understand the challenge we face and be totally clear about expectation. We are 19th in the Championship. If we repeat that position this time next year it will be , in all seriousness, one of the greatest achievements in our history — yes, probably comparable, in real terms, with 1967 and 1976. That’s why Les is right; the choice of next manager is crucial and it just has to work — somehow — to galvanise what we have, unearth some gems (…) and give us a chance.
Bring it on….
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| So..what now? on 09:52 - Apr 23 with 10646 views | enfieldargh |
Supporting QPR is what I do.
Yes its frustrating seeing clubs some fans perceive as inferior to us doing well and appearing to be well organised , PNE, Blackburn, Wigan plus clubs who are getting it right Sheff U, Brizzle(Almost).
There are then the ones that burn cash like we used to do and may find themselves not going up and then facing FFP.
we have good young talent emerging plus I'm hoping that our larger than normal scouting network will find new recruits to prop it all up.
I dont expect promotion I only hope I see effort, enthusiasm and a will to win from our players. If I see that then win loose or draw its my QPR, even if were not very good.
Please though can we have a manger who can be given time to make things work |  |
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| So..what now? on 09:55 - Apr 23 with 10627 views | smegma |
Without a manager no one has been told who is staying and who is going?? I saw an academy XI play yesterday and many players have no idea whether they are going to be in for preseason training in July or not. Usually they are told in March. Some players like Jack Williams, Charlie Fox, Caden Genovesi and Myles Bowman have been released but that's the only news. | | | |
| So..what now? on 10:46 - Apr 23 with 10538 views | Northernr |
| So..what now? on 09:55 - Apr 23 by smegma |
Without a manager no one has been told who is staying and who is going?? I saw an academy XI play yesterday and many players have no idea whether they are going to be in for preseason training in July or not. Usually they are told in March. Some players like Jack Williams, Charlie Fox, Caden Genovesi and Myles Bowman have been released but that's the only news. |
Again, that shouldn't really be down to the manager. The DOF system is meant to exist so there's continuity of decision making and strategy and it doesn't just flip and flop around with every change of manager. How is a new man going to be able to come in here and make decisions on our academy players? That shouldn't be down to him. |  | | |
| So..what now? on 11:12 - Apr 23 with 10422 views | daveB |
| So..what now? on 09:55 - Apr 23 by smegma |
Without a manager no one has been told who is staying and who is going?? I saw an academy XI play yesterday and many players have no idea whether they are going to be in for preseason training in July or not. Usually they are told in March. Some players like Jack Williams, Charlie Fox, Caden Genovesi and Myles Bowman have been released but that's the only news. |
Don't Academy players get told at the end of the season usually who is staying or going? |  | | |
| So..what now? on 11:20 - Apr 23 with 10396 views | daveB |
Sorry I can't celebrate staying up. We've won a grand total of 10 points in 2019 out of a possible 57 on offer, thats abysmal
We were told by many fans last season and by the owner that the team was better than a 16th place finish and the aim should be mid table or top half, to finish with less points and 3 places lower than last season is an absolute failure from everyone at the club, there is no positive it's been piss poor and we are really lucky that the bottom 4 have been awful. Usually need 52 points top stay up, we won't get that many.
Massive improvement needed next season | | | |
| So..what now? on 11:26 - Apr 23 with 10369 views | bosh67 |
For me 2019/20 is about finally addressing the herd of elephants in the room.
We haven't got any money anymore so we have to sell to exist.
We haven't got any money so we need to build the academy up and face up to the fact that 80-90% of our future teams for the foreseeable future will come from within the club and be between 18 and 23. So we need a conveyor belt and to start attracting youngsters who are not getting a look in at other academies (ala Hall etc).
We need to appoint a forward thinking manager who has experience with younger players and will work between the first team and the academy with an assistant to pull in the youngsters for the squad as needed and scouting needs to increase.
Most importantly we need to address the biggest elephant in the room which is playing style. We haven't seen an attacking side with width and real creative guile since Warnock left. And I never thought Warnock would do that but we need to say f*ck counter attack football, f*ck long ball football, or whatever it is we've tried to do for the last few years and remember what we have traditionally done best, which is build a solid defensive unit, get pace and width and take games to opponents without leaving the back door open. We haven't played an attractive attacking style of football for years and most importantly, if you want fans to sit in seats, you have to entertain them and give them a style of football that will make them actually turn up. For me the way we play and getting that right is the biggest elephant to tame. |  |
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| So..what now? on 11:30 - Apr 23 with 10344 views | QPR_John |
| So..what now? on 11:20 - Apr 23 by daveB |
Sorry I can't celebrate staying up. We've won a grand total of 10 points in 2019 out of a possible 57 on offer, thats abysmal
We were told by many fans last season and by the owner that the team was better than a 16th place finish and the aim should be mid table or top half, to finish with less points and 3 places lower than last season is an absolute failure from everyone at the club, there is no positive it's been piss poor and we are really lucky that the bottom 4 have been awful. Usually need 52 points top stay up, we won't get that many.
Massive improvement needed next season |
"Usually need 52 points top stay up, we won't get that many. "
Over the last 17 seasons including this 52 was required to stay up in only 3 with 55 in one so its hardly usual to need 52 point. | | | |
| So..what now? on 11:35 - Apr 23 with 10320 views | Dorse |
| So..what now? on 11:26 - Apr 23 by bosh67 |
For me 2019/20 is about finally addressing the herd of elephants in the room.
We haven't got any money anymore so we have to sell to exist.
We haven't got any money so we need to build the academy up and face up to the fact that 80-90% of our future teams for the foreseeable future will come from within the club and be between 18 and 23. So we need a conveyor belt and to start attracting youngsters who are not getting a look in at other academies (ala Hall etc).
We need to appoint a forward thinking manager who has experience with younger players and will work between the first team and the academy with an assistant to pull in the youngsters for the squad as needed and scouting needs to increase.
Most importantly we need to address the biggest elephant in the room which is playing style. We haven't seen an attacking side with width and real creative guile since Warnock left. And I never thought Warnock would do that but we need to say f*ck counter attack football, f*ck long ball football, or whatever it is we've tried to do for the last few years and remember what we have traditionally done best, which is build a solid defensive unit, get pace and width and take games to opponents without leaving the back door open. We haven't played an attractive attacking style of football for years and most importantly, if you want fans to sit in seats, you have to entertain them and give them a style of football that will make them actually turn up. For me the way we play and getting that right is the biggest elephant to tame. |
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| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| So..what now? on 11:43 - Apr 23 with 10295 views | daveB |
| So..what now? on 11:30 - Apr 23 by QPR_John |
"Usually need 52 points top stay up, we won't get that many. "
Over the last 17 seasons including this 52 was required to stay up in only 3 with 55 in one so its hardly usual to need 52 point. |
I think if you get below 52 points you've had a very poor season and will be lucky to stay up | | | |
| So..what now? on 11:53 - Apr 23 with 10239 views | qprd |
our final league position is irrelevant to me given what we were supposed to accomplish this season
our two goals at the start of the season were to stay up and to develop youth players
as long as we secured another year in the division, i dont care whether we finished 7th or 21st.
in fact, i wouldve rather finished 21st and played eze, bright, manning, etc than finished 7th playing a bunch of loanees and free agents who will not be part of the club next year.
can eze be our primary creative player next year? probably not, but we still dont know
can bright be a steady attacking player?
can oteh or lewis walker be trusted to chip in at striker next year?
is manning good enough to play left back next year?
can giles phillips be a squad player?
all these questions coulve been answered, and instead, we kept flogging out the likes of wells, hemed, cameron, rangel and others like bidwell and lynch who will not be here next year | | | |
| So..what now? on 11:55 - Apr 23 with 10229 views | stevec |
A little less sympathy for what is a self inflicted malaise at the club would be a start.
The constant acceptance of low expectations from sections of the fan base is a killer as well.
The reason we get 10 minutes added on time for time wasting when everybody else gets 4 minutes is because our half arsed players should be bending the refs ear whilst Lumley is fannying about, take the refs mind off added time like every other team. The resigned smiles when the ref gives a penalty like yesterday, that is not the mindset of players who want and expect to win, no wonder refs feel it's no big deal ripping us off.
Les trotting out his platitudes, not good enough mate. Four years and counting, do your fcking job.
Until us fans get unreasonable and start demanding better, this bunch of Directors, DOF's, Managers and players will carry on carte blanche falling back on the excuses we never stop giving them . Let's face it, it doesn't take a lot for them to throw the towel in.
Until we expect more we'll just keep getting less. |  | | |
| So..what now? on 12:03 - Apr 23 with 10186 views | ozexile |
Semi agree if we didnt spend so much time camped in our area at the end of games we'd increase our chances of not giving pens away. | | | |
| So..what now? on 12:19 - Apr 23 with 10127 views | LunarJetman |
| So..what now? on 11:43 - Apr 23 by daveB |
I think if you get below 52 points you've had a very poor season and will be lucky to stay up |
In the last 10 years, getting 51 points would have kept you up 9 out of 10 times. The 48 points we currently have would have kept you up 8 out of 10 times.
The side finishing 3rd bottom in that time has averaged 44.6 points. Getting 46 points would have kept you up 6 out of 10 times. |  | | |
| So..what now? on 12:22 - Apr 23 with 10109 views | Antti_Heinola |
| So..what now? on 11:55 - Apr 23 by stevec |
A little less sympathy for what is a self inflicted malaise at the club would be a start.
The constant acceptance of low expectations from sections of the fan base is a killer as well.
The reason we get 10 minutes added on time for time wasting when everybody else gets 4 minutes is because our half arsed players should be bending the refs ear whilst Lumley is fannying about, take the refs mind off added time like every other team. The resigned smiles when the ref gives a penalty like yesterday, that is not the mindset of players who want and expect to win, no wonder refs feel it's no big deal ripping us off.
Les trotting out his platitudes, not good enough mate. Four years and counting, do your fcking job.
Until us fans get unreasonable and start demanding better, this bunch of Directors, DOF's, Managers and players will carry on carte blanche falling back on the excuses we never stop giving them . Let's face it, it doesn't take a lot for them to throw the towel in.
Until we expect more we'll just keep getting less. |
So your solution is what Steve?
If you truly, truly think that fans have been too nice or too accepting, I suspect you're taking the views of a few reasonable people on here as the norm throughout the fanbase. Social media is the place you'll find the vicious haranguing you're crying out for.
Fans at games were generous up to a point this season because until the second half of our awful new year run, we had actually been doing pretty well. Solid upper-mid-table, two FA Cup wins etc.
But apart from that, I'm interested in your solution. You want fans to be less accepting. How should this manifest itself? Chanting at matches? Doorstepping homes? Kidnapping Tony's kids? Some proper old school angry letter writing?
Every person at the club knows the first team needs to be performing better. I don't think any of them are comforted by a few nice people out of thousands showing a bit of understanding about just how tough it is to move forward while slashing costs every season. Plus, you have zero right to ask any fan to be less sympathetic. By all means carry out your own campaign, but don't blame the difficulties the club is in on fans who choose to see things differently.
It makes me laugh, really. When Warnock was manager and we went up, the club was run horribly and unsustainably. Tons of signings every year, players on stupid wages and long contracts (see: Agyemang, P and Hall, F for a start). The youth system was in bits. No one coming through there. But we won the league, so it was all great. A million mistakes were made after that promotion. If we had used that money to do the kind of things we're doing now in terms of developing the club, we might still be there now. But we didn't. It was wasted. Recovering from that can take years. Just ask Leeds, Forest, Sheff Wed, Sheff Utd, Charlton, Cov, Wigan, Bolton, Birmingham and any number of other clubs, many bigger than us how hard it is to turn things around.
so finally, what *do* you expect? I expect more than this season - absolutely. But what exactly do you expect? |  |
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| So..what now? on 13:03 - Apr 23 with 9977 views | PunteR |
| So..what now? on 12:22 - Apr 23 by Antti_Heinola |
So your solution is what Steve?
If you truly, truly think that fans have been too nice or too accepting, I suspect you're taking the views of a few reasonable people on here as the norm throughout the fanbase. Social media is the place you'll find the vicious haranguing you're crying out for.
Fans at games were generous up to a point this season because until the second half of our awful new year run, we had actually been doing pretty well. Solid upper-mid-table, two FA Cup wins etc.
But apart from that, I'm interested in your solution. You want fans to be less accepting. How should this manifest itself? Chanting at matches? Doorstepping homes? Kidnapping Tony's kids? Some proper old school angry letter writing?
Every person at the club knows the first team needs to be performing better. I don't think any of them are comforted by a few nice people out of thousands showing a bit of understanding about just how tough it is to move forward while slashing costs every season. Plus, you have zero right to ask any fan to be less sympathetic. By all means carry out your own campaign, but don't blame the difficulties the club is in on fans who choose to see things differently.
It makes me laugh, really. When Warnock was manager and we went up, the club was run horribly and unsustainably. Tons of signings every year, players on stupid wages and long contracts (see: Agyemang, P and Hall, F for a start). The youth system was in bits. No one coming through there. But we won the league, so it was all great. A million mistakes were made after that promotion. If we had used that money to do the kind of things we're doing now in terms of developing the club, we might still be there now. But we didn't. It was wasted. Recovering from that can take years. Just ask Leeds, Forest, Sheff Wed, Sheff Utd, Charlton, Cov, Wigan, Bolton, Birmingham and any number of other clubs, many bigger than us how hard it is to turn things around.
so finally, what *do* you expect? I expect more than this season - absolutely. But what exactly do you expect? |
What to expect?. Some sort of plan and sticking with it would be nice. Its why i and others got up in arms when SM came in and ripped up those plans that Ollie was carrying out. A ridiculous appointment in hindsight.
Something is still clearly not working on LF watch. Whether thats in his hands or not. However the youth system has improved massively so i would stick with that. Youth and players that want the step up in their career.. It went wrong when we relied on loans again. We need a manager that will work with what we've got. |  |
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| So..what now? on 13:15 - Apr 23 with 9920 views | stevec |
| So..what now? on 12:22 - Apr 23 by Antti_Heinola |
So your solution is what Steve?
If you truly, truly think that fans have been too nice or too accepting, I suspect you're taking the views of a few reasonable people on here as the norm throughout the fanbase. Social media is the place you'll find the vicious haranguing you're crying out for.
Fans at games were generous up to a point this season because until the second half of our awful new year run, we had actually been doing pretty well. Solid upper-mid-table, two FA Cup wins etc.
But apart from that, I'm interested in your solution. You want fans to be less accepting. How should this manifest itself? Chanting at matches? Doorstepping homes? Kidnapping Tony's kids? Some proper old school angry letter writing?
Every person at the club knows the first team needs to be performing better. I don't think any of them are comforted by a few nice people out of thousands showing a bit of understanding about just how tough it is to move forward while slashing costs every season. Plus, you have zero right to ask any fan to be less sympathetic. By all means carry out your own campaign, but don't blame the difficulties the club is in on fans who choose to see things differently.
It makes me laugh, really. When Warnock was manager and we went up, the club was run horribly and unsustainably. Tons of signings every year, players on stupid wages and long contracts (see: Agyemang, P and Hall, F for a start). The youth system was in bits. No one coming through there. But we won the league, so it was all great. A million mistakes were made after that promotion. If we had used that money to do the kind of things we're doing now in terms of developing the club, we might still be there now. But we didn't. It was wasted. Recovering from that can take years. Just ask Leeds, Forest, Sheff Wed, Sheff Utd, Charlton, Cov, Wigan, Bolton, Birmingham and any number of other clubs, many bigger than us how hard it is to turn things around.
so finally, what *do* you expect? I expect more than this season - absolutely. But what exactly do you expect? |
What do I expect? Well, like Clint Hill put it a while back, I expect standards.
I mentioned a few in my previous comment.
Standards are the solution and they are not being instilled, or perhaps being wilfully ignored, within some of this squad. That starts from the top.
We need to stop constantly falling back on the lack of money as an excuse. All excuses do is create a negative mindset which in turn affects standards.
You need people at the top who lay down the law within the club. I know fans detested Ecclestone, but whatever way you look at it, he got us in four years where we hadn't been in the previous fifteen. I know it'll get thrown back at me that the four years was about qualifying for Europe (if I remember correctly) but any progressive boss worth his sort knows you aim for the unachievable to reach the achievable.
That no longer exists at the club. We think like a lower half Championship side (on a good day) and lo and behold, guess what's happened?
I'm not asking for the play offs next year, I'm asking for the right standards to be set for the playing squad, expected goals to be set and set beyond what they maybe capable of and then year on year aim at continued improvement.
Whatever the club are trying to do in that capacity at the moment sure ain't working.
Perhaps it's time for a new 4 year plan. | | | |
| So..what now? on 13:17 - Apr 23 with 9910 views | Antti_Heinola |
| So..what now? on 13:03 - Apr 23 by PunteR |
What to expect?. Some sort of plan and sticking with it would be nice. Its why i and others got up in arms when SM came in and ripped up those plans that Ollie was carrying out. A ridiculous appointment in hindsight.
Something is still clearly not working on LF watch. Whether thats in his hands or not. However the youth system has improved massively so i would stick with that. Youth and players that want the step up in their career.. It went wrong when we relied on loans again. We need a manager that will work with what we've got. |
Absolutely agree! I don't think anyone disagrees with any of that - which is sort of my point! | |
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| So..what now? on 13:30 - Apr 23 with 9831 views | loftus77 |
| So..what now? on 12:22 - Apr 23 by Antti_Heinola |
So your solution is what Steve?
If you truly, truly think that fans have been too nice or too accepting, I suspect you're taking the views of a few reasonable people on here as the norm throughout the fanbase. Social media is the place you'll find the vicious haranguing you're crying out for.
Fans at games were generous up to a point this season because until the second half of our awful new year run, we had actually been doing pretty well. Solid upper-mid-table, two FA Cup wins etc.
But apart from that, I'm interested in your solution. You want fans to be less accepting. How should this manifest itself? Chanting at matches? Doorstepping homes? Kidnapping Tony's kids? Some proper old school angry letter writing?
Every person at the club knows the first team needs to be performing better. I don't think any of them are comforted by a few nice people out of thousands showing a bit of understanding about just how tough it is to move forward while slashing costs every season. Plus, you have zero right to ask any fan to be less sympathetic. By all means carry out your own campaign, but don't blame the difficulties the club is in on fans who choose to see things differently.
It makes me laugh, really. When Warnock was manager and we went up, the club was run horribly and unsustainably. Tons of signings every year, players on stupid wages and long contracts (see: Agyemang, P and Hall, F for a start). The youth system was in bits. No one coming through there. But we won the league, so it was all great. A million mistakes were made after that promotion. If we had used that money to do the kind of things we're doing now in terms of developing the club, we might still be there now. But we didn't. It was wasted. Recovering from that can take years. Just ask Leeds, Forest, Sheff Wed, Sheff Utd, Charlton, Cov, Wigan, Bolton, Birmingham and any number of other clubs, many bigger than us how hard it is to turn things around.
so finally, what *do* you expect? I expect more than this season - absolutely. But what exactly do you expect? |
I take Steve’s point about self-fulfilling prophecies. It’s right that fans who pay a lot of money to follow their team all around England should be pushing the club they support to constantly improve and realise its potential.
I guess, though, the ‘elephant in the room’ (the hard facts of life, if you like) remains FFP — in the way we broke the rules and, crucially, WHEN we broke them. I’m no expert (it’s complicated) but it seems that clubs like Birmingham/Derby got a better FFP deal then we did and managed to work the system in a very cute way.
Also, let’s not forget that that our massive fine and financial restrictions also came with a transfer embargo back in January — maybe that had more of an effect on the 2nd half of the season then we thought when we were struggling with injuries (Cameron, Rangel etc) and might have tried to deal in the transfer market in some way.
In that sense, sending out our youngsters on loan clearly backfired and we only just got away with it. A lesson learned I hope. [Post edited 23 Apr 2019 13:31]
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| So..what now? on 13:44 - Apr 23 with 9769 views | Antti_Heinola |
| So..what now? on 13:15 - Apr 23 by stevec |
What do I expect? Well, like Clint Hill put it a while back, I expect standards.
I mentioned a few in my previous comment.
Standards are the solution and they are not being instilled, or perhaps being wilfully ignored, within some of this squad. That starts from the top.
We need to stop constantly falling back on the lack of money as an excuse. All excuses do is create a negative mindset which in turn affects standards.
You need people at the top who lay down the law within the club. I know fans detested Ecclestone, but whatever way you look at it, he got us in four years where we hadn't been in the previous fifteen. I know it'll get thrown back at me that the four years was about qualifying for Europe (if I remember correctly) but any progressive boss worth his sort knows you aim for the unachievable to reach the achievable.
That no longer exists at the club. We think like a lower half Championship side (on a good day) and lo and behold, guess what's happened?
I'm not asking for the play offs next year, I'm asking for the right standards to be set for the playing squad, expected goals to be set and set beyond what they maybe capable of and then year on year aim at continued improvement.
Whatever the club are trying to do in that capacity at the moment sure ain't working.
Perhaps it's time for a new 4 year plan. |
Absolutely expect 'standards' (whatever they may be. It's a real shame Clint's standards don't extend to his cheerleading of Barton, though).
The thing is, you want it both ways. 'We need a new four year plan - like with Bernie - we can't blame money.' If you truly think we won the league because of a four-year plan that was all laid out nicely and achieved like clockwork, you are severely deluded. There was no 'plan'. We sacked managers continually. 15 months before we went up we were in genuine danger of being relegated. We spunked millions and millions on players - our promotion had EVERYTHING to do with money. They had no plan other than spunk money and hire and fire until something happened. In the end, finally, it did. But that wasn't a plan - unless their 'plan' was fire Gregory, hire De Canio, fire him, hire Dowie, fire him, hire Sousa, fire him, hire Magilton, fire him, have loads of caretaker spells for a variety of people in amongst all that, all the while randomly buying dozens of players of quality so varied some could have been Prem players while others literally would have struggled in the National League, then decide to get Paul fkn Hart in for a bit and THEN, when everyone was least expecting it and just as it genuinely looked as if we might get RELEGATED despite all those millions, lure Warnock away from Palace! I mean, if that was their plan, it was fkn genius (complicated genius), but I don't understand for the life of me why they didn't just cut to the chase? Everything they did - everything - was short term bollox - flailing about like what they are: rich, arrogant pr!cks with no sense. When the premiere of the 4 Year Plan happened even St Joey had to admit what Warnock did in the face of such utter nonsense was nigh on a miracle. To give Bernie, of all people, even the tiniest shred of credit for that 'chuck-sh!t-against-a-wall-see-what-sticks' method of running a football club (while - you may have conveniently forgotten, simultaneously alienating most of the fanbase), really might be the most ridiculous thing either of us have ever posted on here, which is really quite impressive. The bloke probably never even knew who our manager was from one day to the next - although, to be fair, they changed so often, maybe you can't blame him.
The rest I agree with - improvement each year. Absolutely. But my real point was about you aiming your ire at fans, which I still don't understand and you seem to have now ignored. All fans want improvement each year. but that's different to also having a rounded view of the obstacles in front of the club because of mistakes made in our Prem years. | |
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| So..what now? on 14:03 - Apr 23 with 9646 views | ridethewave |
| So..what now? on 13:03 - Apr 23 by PunteR |
What to expect?. Some sort of plan and sticking with it would be nice. Its why i and others got up in arms when SM came in and ripped up those plans that Ollie was carrying out. A ridiculous appointment in hindsight.
Something is still clearly not working on LF watch. Whether thats in his hands or not. However the youth system has improved massively so i would stick with that. Youth and players that want the step up in their career.. It went wrong when we relied on loans again. We need a manager that will work with what we've got. |
Have we any evidence that the youth system has actually improved? I've got my doubts that anything has really changed there, only that the graduates of the academy actually now have a chance of playing first team football! I suspect we've long had talented youngsters with real potential coming through, but they've never, until recently, been given a look in for the first team. |  | | |
| So..what now? on 14:07 - Apr 23 with 9622 views | stevec |
| So..what now? on 13:44 - Apr 23 by Antti_Heinola |
Absolutely expect 'standards' (whatever they may be. It's a real shame Clint's standards don't extend to his cheerleading of Barton, though).
The thing is, you want it both ways. 'We need a new four year plan - like with Bernie - we can't blame money.' If you truly think we won the league because of a four-year plan that was all laid out nicely and achieved like clockwork, you are severely deluded. There was no 'plan'. We sacked managers continually. 15 months before we went up we were in genuine danger of being relegated. We spunked millions and millions on players - our promotion had EVERYTHING to do with money. They had no plan other than spunk money and hire and fire until something happened. In the end, finally, it did. But that wasn't a plan - unless their 'plan' was fire Gregory, hire De Canio, fire him, hire Dowie, fire him, hire Sousa, fire him, hire Magilton, fire him, have loads of caretaker spells for a variety of people in amongst all that, all the while randomly buying dozens of players of quality so varied some could have been Prem players while others literally would have struggled in the National League, then decide to get Paul fkn Hart in for a bit and THEN, when everyone was least expecting it and just as it genuinely looked as if we might get RELEGATED despite all those millions, lure Warnock away from Palace! I mean, if that was their plan, it was fkn genius (complicated genius), but I don't understand for the life of me why they didn't just cut to the chase? Everything they did - everything - was short term bollox - flailing about like what they are: rich, arrogant pr!cks with no sense. When the premiere of the 4 Year Plan happened even St Joey had to admit what Warnock did in the face of such utter nonsense was nigh on a miracle. To give Bernie, of all people, even the tiniest shred of credit for that 'chuck-sh!t-against-a-wall-see-what-sticks' method of running a football club (while - you may have conveniently forgotten, simultaneously alienating most of the fanbase), really might be the most ridiculous thing either of us have ever posted on here, which is really quite impressive. The bloke probably never even knew who our manager was from one day to the next - although, to be fair, they changed so often, maybe you can't blame him.
The rest I agree with - improvement each year. Absolutely. But my real point was about you aiming your ire at fans, which I still don't understand and you seem to have now ignored. All fans want improvement each year. but that's different to also having a rounded view of the obstacles in front of the club because of mistakes made in our Prem years. |
Antti, you'd manage to see a shitstorm on a bright sunny day.
Bottom line, however it came about, promotion in 2010/11
Previous promotion to the top Division... 1982/83.
Purely speculation of course, but if Bernie had stayed on I can't help thinking we'd have made a much better fist of the last eight years than the present incumbent.
And I wasn't aiming my ire at fans in general, just people like you, constantly looking for new improved ways to justify this never ending calamity that our football club has become.
If you think bench warming reserves at the likes of bottom end of League One Walsall and Accrington fckin Stanley are going to be our salvation, dream on. | | | |
| So..what now? on 14:26 - Apr 23 with 9537 views | Antti_Heinola |
| So..what now? on 14:07 - Apr 23 by stevec |
Antti, you'd manage to see a shitstorm on a bright sunny day.
Bottom line, however it came about, promotion in 2010/11
Previous promotion to the top Division... 1982/83.
Purely speculation of course, but if Bernie had stayed on I can't help thinking we'd have made a much better fist of the last eight years than the present incumbent.
And I wasn't aiming my ire at fans in general, just people like you, constantly looking for new improved ways to justify this never ending calamity that our football club has become.
If you think bench warming reserves at the likes of bottom end of League One Walsall and Accrington fckin Stanley are going to be our salvation, dream on. |
Brilliant.
We've gone from criticising fans as a whole to it being just 'people like me' who are apparently somehow allowing the club carte blanche to fail by not, I don't know, sending Lee Hoos nasty emails every week or something.
And we've gone from 'we need a plan like the old one' to 'well, yeah, however it happened, it happened. it doesn't matter.' So we need a plan, but it doesn't matter what that plan is, or whether that plan works, as long as we get what we want, by dumb luck or otherwise, job done. Jesus mate, can you be our new CEO *and* DOF with that kind of genius?
It is pure speculation about Bernie, you're right - because there isn't the tiniest bit of evidence his scattergun approach that relied wholly on spunking money on players almost non-stop and sacking managers every 6 months would have turned out to be some kind of magic formula for PL success. I mean, you never know, it might've worked! As you can see - that approach made sure Fulham had a tremendous season this term.
As for the last sentence, I genuinely haven't a clue what you're going on about. | |
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| So..what now? on 14:35 - Apr 23 with 9500 views | Lblock |
I’m with SteveC - standards, been saying it for years, that and culpability of the key decision makers.
See The Four Year Plan mentioned here and rightly so. The reality is that turned into “The 15 month Plan” in the end. The telling part of that chapter was Amit stepping up and taking the lead (and Flab / Dwarf agreeing to remain in the background), he’s filmed chatting with NW about spend, budget and getting it right as “both our arses will be in a sling”.
Amit and Ishkan seemed to be concerned with due diligence at each and every step and knew to step back and let the experienced football man do his bit but step in and tub thump, lead, bollock or take the spotlight away.
The disaster that was The Bungle Brothers has set us back to a position I don’t think we will ever recover from in my lifetime. Where’s the culpable Phil Beard? Left with a nice lump of cash and never needs to work again.
We shouldn’t need to be wasting millions.... we just need standards and culpability. For a club in our position to have been spending £500k on Luke Goss is an absolute scandal!! That is equivalent to the signings of Ji Sung Park and the like over the years. I’d expect full chapter and verse and the DoF to sign off on such players etc
Currently we still seem to be in a Bungle malaise but I’d hope we will step away from that this summer
My ideal is a club pulling together top to bottom with the first team squad made up with the right blend of experience pro’s with dedication and mentor skills to be pulling through some home grown kids and lower league / overseas jems with maybe one or three really good Prem loans
The stuff of dreams!!!! |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| So..what now? on 14:46 - Apr 23 with 9470 views | Antti_Heinola |
| So..what now? on 14:35 - Apr 23 by Lblock |
I’m with SteveC - standards, been saying it for years, that and culpability of the key decision makers.
See The Four Year Plan mentioned here and rightly so. The reality is that turned into “The 15 month Plan” in the end. The telling part of that chapter was Amit stepping up and taking the lead (and Flab / Dwarf agreeing to remain in the background), he’s filmed chatting with NW about spend, budget and getting it right as “both our arses will be in a sling”.
Amit and Ishkan seemed to be concerned with due diligence at each and every step and knew to step back and let the experienced football man do his bit but step in and tub thump, lead, bollock or take the spotlight away.
The disaster that was The Bungle Brothers has set us back to a position I don’t think we will ever recover from in my lifetime. Where’s the culpable Phil Beard? Left with a nice lump of cash and never needs to work again.
We shouldn’t need to be wasting millions.... we just need standards and culpability. For a club in our position to have been spending £500k on Luke Goss is an absolute scandal!! That is equivalent to the signings of Ji Sung Park and the like over the years. I’d expect full chapter and verse and the DoF to sign off on such players etc
Currently we still seem to be in a Bungle malaise but I’d hope we will step away from that this summer
My ideal is a club pulling together top to bottom with the first team squad made up with the right blend of experience pro’s with dedication and mentor skills to be pulling through some home grown kids and lower league / overseas jems with maybe one or three really good Prem loans
The stuff of dreams!!!! |
But no one is really saying much different to that LBlock.
Beard was a disaster - that's universally recognised.
Goss for £500k isn't really a scandal - or wasn't. signing a promising young player from United (who they have a buy back on - so it's not like they were glad to be rid of him (although they do it with most players admittedly)). He was a player Rangers thought highly enough of to take on loan - so we weren't the only team impressed by him. I'm all for culpability too - but my whole point is about being reasonable. Has Goss been a poor signing? Yes. Should people be fired for a bad signing? Well, no. Because every single club on earth makes bad signings and signings that don't work out. I remember people lambasting us for the Smithies signing, yet he turned out well - a player we actually sold for a profit, which is astonishing in itself. People went mental over us signing Derry and Hill. Equally, SWP felt like a really good signing and even seemed it for the first 2 months, but he turned out to be a bad one. | |
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| So..what now? on 14:49 - Apr 23 with 9443 views | Hooped_Pullie |
A lot of really good, thoughtful stuff going on with this post : even between people who are respectfully disagreeing with one another.
My take : for the very little it's worth.
This time last year, we were preparing to finish the season on 56 points, having had our purple patches, our low points (though even Forest at home last season somehow doesn't look so bad now) and having lashed out precisely none of the Club's very limited resources on expensive loans and end-of-career contracts to players who had good working lives elsewhere. To the surprise of some, that was not deemed good enough, with the manager and his coaching staff shown the door in May.
So what then : a manager brought in who (despite a previous positive coaching connection) raised little enthusiasm among the fanbase. With him came a change of attitude towards short-term expenditure, and following a disastrous start, a period of mildly increased hope and/or expectation.
Winter bites, darkness descends, and the players mysteriously put the season away with the Christmas decorations despite the distance to the bright days of May seeming interminable. Manager goes (again) as we crawl painfully towards the barest of safety, well short of last year's points tally, depressingly pulled backwards.
Elsewhere, money is doing some talking, but it will never be the only voice in this division, as those making properly good use of limited resources are having their say. And the beauty of the Championship is that - despite it getting harder to succeed every year - nous, intelligence, a shrewd transfer policy and a winning culture can ensure if not success, then the palpable absence of failure.
So, next manager. Next season. Another roll of the dice. No matter the indicators, I have never anticipated relegation (or promotion or play-off places) during any summer, and I won't be starting now.
I love this Club. This is my team, my hope. Whether by accident or design, I pray that the powers that be get it right this summer - it is just as possible for them to do so as it is for them to fail.
I will see. We all will. | | | |
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