| Greek bailout 18:47 - Jul 20 with 6712 views | pomanjou |
for the downtrodden......
It is a slow day in a little Greek Village. The rain is beating down and the streets are deserted.
Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit.
On this particular day a rich German tourist is driving through the village, stops at the local hotel and lays a €100 note on the desk, telling the hotel owner he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night.
The owner gives him some keys and, as soon as the visitor has walked upstairs, the hotelier grabs the €100 note and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher.
The butcher takes the €100 note and runs down the street to repay his debt to the pig farmer.
The pig farmer takes the €100 note and heads off to pay his bill at the supplier of feed and fuel.
The guy at the Farmers' Co-op takes the €100 note and runs to pay his drinks bill at the taverna.
The publican slips the money along to the local prostitute drinking at the bar, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer him "services" on credit.
The hooker then rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill to the hotel owner with the €100 note.
The hotel proprietor then places the €100 note back on the counter so the rich traveller will not suspect anything.
At that moment the traveller comes down the stairs, picks up the €100 note, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the money, and leaves town.
No one produced anything.
No one earned anything.
However, the whole village is now out of debt and looking to the future with a lot more optimism.
And that is how the bailout package works!
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| Greek bailout on 18:54 - Jul 20 with 6686 views | QPR_John |
Looks good but not quite. What has happened to the proprietors money he was owed by the hooker he did not get to keep it and used it to pay back the traveller and is out of pocket |  | | |
| Greek bailout on 18:56 - Jul 20 with 6681 views | Watford_Ranger |
| Greek bailout on 18:54 - Jul 20 by QPR_John |
Looks good but not quite. What has happened to the proprietors money he was owed by the hooker he did not get to keep it and used it to pay back the traveller and is out of pocket |
He also used it to pay back the debt to the butcher | | | |
| Greek bailout on 19:00 - Jul 20 with 6671 views | WilloW4 |
| Greek bailout on 18:56 - Jul 20 by Watford_Ranger |
He also used it to pay back the debt to the butcher |
But whose gonna be first choice at right back this season? |  | | |
| Greek bailout on 19:01 - Jul 20 with 6670 views | Watford_Ranger |
| Greek bailout on 19:00 - Jul 20 by WilloW4 |
But whose gonna be first choice at right back this season? |
The candlestick maker. | | | |
| Greek bailout on 19:04 - Jul 20 with 6657 views | QPR_John |
| Greek bailout on 18:56 - Jul 20 by Watford_Ranger |
He also used it to pay back the debt to the butcher |
Hands up you are right I was a bit hasty. Of course it is the traveller that has lost money in that he gave the proprietor an interest free loan | | | |
| Greek bailout on 19:21 - Jul 20 with 6616 views | GetMeRangers |
"No one produced anything.
No one earned anything."
Greece's problem all along!
In your scenario, as no one earned anything, should they need more of anything they require more credit from the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker. Works ok if you can cater for your countries needs within your own borders, but Greece cant - basics like fuel, medicine etc.
At present they are borrowing to pay off loans, but the interest is still rising on the overall debt. This is why the IMF have said it isnt viable without a haircut and interest holiday on the debt.
Still believe the only way forward is for Greece to leave the Euro... not convinced it still wont have to |  | | |
| Greek bailout on 20:04 - Jul 20 with 6548 views | pomanjou |
| Greek bailout on 19:21 - Jul 20 by GetMeRangers |
"No one produced anything.
No one earned anything."
Greece's problem all along!
In your scenario, as no one earned anything, should they need more of anything they require more credit from the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker. Works ok if you can cater for your countries needs within your own borders, but Greece cant - basics like fuel, medicine etc.
At present they are borrowing to pay off loans, but the interest is still rising on the overall debt. This is why the IMF have said it isnt viable without a haircut and interest holiday on the debt.
Still believe the only way forward is for Greece to leave the Euro... not convinced it still wont have to |
Yes, they need to leave, they should never have joined and but for the expansionist social idealism of the nutters they wouldn't have.
Maybe they will now find a way, like PAYE, to collect taxes the lack of which has been their downfall.
I cannot see why any other country should take a haircut.
And please God, don't let us be joining the snail eating/stein swilling axis. | |
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| Greek bailout on 21:08 - Jul 20 with 6479 views | Brightonhoop |
| Greek bailout on 20:04 - Jul 20 by pomanjou |
Yes, they need to leave, they should never have joined and but for the expansionist social idealism of the nutters they wouldn't have.
Maybe they will now find a way, like PAYE, to collect taxes the lack of which has been their downfall.
I cannot see why any other country should take a haircut.
And please God, don't let us be joining the snail eating/stein swilling axis. |
Can't see it Pom, there's too much at stake, including Billions of German Euros, along with the rest of Europe.
If they leave, the Russians will bail them out and have field day on the Med, shitting on the doorstep of the EU a long way west.....that 's why Obama was getting involved last month, they know Putin will be laughing all the way to the Greek Islands. If it works for them, others might join the Russians as well. Obama, Merkel, Cameron won't risk it.
This is bigger than the poxy EU, and after Ukraine there is still a lot of kerosene in the air. One spark can ignite it. Both Poland and Germany are vulnerable to Russia's mite,despite the loss of the USSR. Putin has got Merkel and Hollander on the back foot, regularly buzzes UK air space with impunity and the Spanish estimate he has visited his Villa in progress in Malaga 27 times, without seeking permission to come ashore. He is left well alone because of who is, an extremely volatile and dangerous foe who sees the years since Yeltsin as a humiliation to Russia, and will strike given the right opportunity. Greece is a very small cog in a far bigger scenario being acted out. Greece Is little more than a smoke screen on. A media level, and a disaster for the Greek people. [Post edited 20 Jul 2015 22:56]
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| Greek bailout on 23:21 - Jul 20 with 6361 views | SimonJames |
Saw on the news that the Greek VAT is going up so much, that a kebab will now cost a whopping £1.50 and a posh coffee will be £1.70!!!!!!!!
I was so shocked I spluttered my £3.65 pint of beer all over my 8 quid pizza. [Post edited 20 Jul 2015 23:27]
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| 100% of people who drink water will die. |
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| Greek bailout on 09:00 - Jul 21 with 6197 views | Metallica_Hoop |
The EU wont let them leave sadly, the EURO is a vanity project towards 'ever closer union'
Luckily we are not in it.
I predicted a lot of this in a debate in '94/5 where I concluded by singing an excerpt from Pantera's 'Walk' "Be yourself by yourself stay away from me"  |  |
| Beer and Beef has made us what we are - The Prince Regent |
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| Greek bailout on 09:57 - Jul 21 with 6152 views | QPR_John |
| Greek bailout on 09:00 - Jul 21 by Metallica_Hoop |
The EU wont let them leave sadly, the EURO is a vanity project towards 'ever closer union'
Luckily we are not in it.
I predicted a lot of this in a debate in '94/5 where I concluded by singing an excerpt from Pantera's 'Walk' "Be yourself by yourself stay away from me" |
Exactly monetary union cannot exist without political union. I am no economist. far from it, but I cannot imagine those behind the Euro did not have this in mind no matter what they might say. | | | |
| Greek bailout on 10:08 - Jul 21 with 6137 views | GetMeRangers |
| Greek bailout on 09:57 - Jul 21 by QPR_John |
Exactly monetary union cannot exist without political union. I am no economist. far from it, but I cannot imagine those behind the Euro did not have this in mind no matter what they might say. |
This debacle will push political union far higher up the table. This has been the purpose all along . You can not run a single currency without it, with the need for centralisation of decisions over tax rates etc. The United States of Europe can not be far off | | | |
| Greek bailout on 13:46 - Jul 21 with 6064 views | SimonJames |
| Greek bailout on 09:57 - Jul 21 by QPR_John |
Exactly monetary union cannot exist without political union. I am no economist. far from it, but I cannot imagine those behind the Euro did not have this in mind no matter what they might say. |
Back in the 90's I had a German customer banging on at me about how Maggie T and Brits were ruining everything by not joining the Euro.
With my Economic Degree hat on, I politely pointed out that there was too much of a void between us, the Germans and the French to arrive at a political union.
He said that there was no need for a political union and the Euro was purely a means of achieving greater economic benefit for all.
I said, then since the euro is really just a stepping stone toward global monetary union, and there is no need for Germany and France to dictate politics, why don't we all immediately join the Americans and half of Asia by adopting the dollar?
...his reply was too rude to publish. | |
| 100% of people who drink water will die. |
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| Greek bailout on 14:40 - Jul 21 with 6022 views | pomanjou |
| Greek bailout on 21:08 - Jul 20 by Brightonhoop |
Can't see it Pom, there's too much at stake, including Billions of German Euros, along with the rest of Europe.
If they leave, the Russians will bail them out and have field day on the Med, shitting on the doorstep of the EU a long way west.....that 's why Obama was getting involved last month, they know Putin will be laughing all the way to the Greek Islands. If it works for them, others might join the Russians as well. Obama, Merkel, Cameron won't risk it.
This is bigger than the poxy EU, and after Ukraine there is still a lot of kerosene in the air. One spark can ignite it. Both Poland and Germany are vulnerable to Russia's mite,despite the loss of the USSR. Putin has got Merkel and Hollander on the back foot, regularly buzzes UK air space with impunity and the Spanish estimate he has visited his Villa in progress in Malaga 27 times, without seeking permission to come ashore. He is left well alone because of who is, an extremely volatile and dangerous foe who sees the years since Yeltsin as a humiliation to Russia, and will strike given the right opportunity. Greece is a very small cog in a far bigger scenario being acted out. Greece Is little more than a smoke screen on. A media level, and a disaster for the Greek people. [Post edited 20 Jul 2015 22:56]
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''London tabloid the Daily Mail has been writing about Russian President Vladimir Putin's Spanish villa since 2012, when a British contractor working in the ritzy Marbella area attributed the palatial building, then under construction, to Putin. The last Daily Mail readers heard about it just a week ago was that the Russian leader was planting a vineyard on the estate. The Spanish press, too, has had a lot of fun with the Putin mansion story.
Now it appears that that the home and the vineyard had nothing to do with Putin: An investigation by the team of Russia's leading anti-corruption activist Alexei Navalny revealed that it's owned by Zoya Ponomareva, the daughter of Valery Ponomarev, a Russian parliament member from the remote region of Kamchatka. He never declared any foreign property -- that would have raised questions in a country that expects politicians to own assets only in Russia. He is, however, a wealthy man: His company makes car license plates and all kinds of official stationery used by Russian government agencies.''
I thought he was too busy flexing his muscles in the Ukraine and bareback on horses to be arsed with visiting a work in progress in Spain......................and so it seems. | |
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| Greek bailout on 15:29 - Jul 21 with 5966 views | blacky200 |
| Greek bailout on 20:04 - Jul 20 by pomanjou |
Yes, they need to leave, they should never have joined and but for the expansionist social idealism of the nutters they wouldn't have.
Maybe they will now find a way, like PAYE, to collect taxes the lack of which has been their downfall.
I cannot see why any other country should take a haircut.
And please God, don't let us be joining the snail eating/stein swilling axis. |
They should never have been allowed to join in the first place as the country massively fudged their accounts to reach the required target to enter the Euro. Since then nothing has been done to sort out the corruption that allegedly goes on in government and the alleged tax evasion of a large portion of the working population. Greece has the highest percentage of self employed people in Europe and here's why. This article was written in 2012 and shows how endemic it is to avoid paying taxes.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2012/09/tax-evasion-greece
I recently read an article written by a former tax investigator in Greece who said that no one has been prosecuted for tax evasion in 10 years despite it being so blatant! And during elections taxes aren't collected in many cases by the controlling party (all allegedly of course). |  | | |
| Greek bailout on 21:50 - Jul 22 with 5839 views | TacticalR |
I am quite puzzled by the crowing.
Is it really a matter for celebration that whole capitalist nations are going down the drain?
It's not just Greece. In other countries in Europe youth unemployment is 50%. It was mentioned on Business Daily on Monday that 6% of Portugal's workforce have emigrated since the crisis started, most of them skilled people. Where have all Portugal's young people gone? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02xk8ml
Also, the very unfortunate phrase 'no one produced anything' was used. Is a great deal produced here? Or is everything imported from China?
Another thing that seems to have been forgotten is that Britain was the first country to be given the bum's rush out of the ERM, on Black Wednesday, back in 1992. [Post edited 22 Jul 2015 21:51]
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| Greek bailout on 22:40 - Jul 22 with 5787 views | MrSheen |
| Greek bailout on 21:50 - Jul 22 by TacticalR |
I am quite puzzled by the crowing.
Is it really a matter for celebration that whole capitalist nations are going down the drain?
It's not just Greece. In other countries in Europe youth unemployment is 50%. It was mentioned on Business Daily on Monday that 6% of Portugal's workforce have emigrated since the crisis started, most of them skilled people. Where have all Portugal's young people gone? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02xk8ml
Also, the very unfortunate phrase 'no one produced anything' was used. Is a great deal produced here? Or is everything imported from China?
Another thing that seems to have been forgotten is that Britain was the first country to be given the bum's rush out of the ERM, on Black Wednesday, back in 1992. [Post edited 22 Jul 2015 21:51]
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All the facts you need here.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/greece/indicators
You can reset it for the UK easily. Greek manufacturing to GDP is about the same as ours at about 9-10%. Our exports are higher, due to the relative success of services.
I remember our Euro exit well, it was the saving of us. Interest rates more than halved within a year and the weakness of the currency got exporting back on its feet immediately, to the extent that the pound was back where it started within a few years as confidence returned. (as was the case in 2008, and since.) Currency union was a political decision, and we still had the discretion to reverse it then. Would that the Greeks had the same. |  | | |
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