| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH 10:49 - Aug 25 with 22650 views | NotLoyal |
It’s the country and western town of Preston. The team with P N and E in their name. Let’s add an I and an S.
Saturday 28th August 2021
Deepdale Stadium
Kick Off 3pm
It’s the final game before the international break, that’s the last game before the next ones start, which will be at the end of the international break.
Match Officials
THOMAS BRAMALL
Thomas loves a card. 21 🟨 in his first 10 games. The EFL generally give him league one or two games so this is a step up.
Assisted by : Richard Wild and Steven Meredith
Fourth Official : Robert Lewis
Preston is famous for many things, the first KFC, the first Motorway, the word ‘teetotal’ comes from Preston, which I as your host totally agree with. It’s also a fact that the highest amount of bellends in the country come from Preston, oh, but think, yes bellends are made in Preston, the very ends of bells in church spires ( or lofts ) that make the noise that bloody annoy you on Sundays. That’s why they have a church with the tallest spire in England, to fit all the bellends in.
The home ends at Preston are also full of bellends.
https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/swanseacity/news/55617/six-players-unavai
On the day tickets will be available to purchase from the away ticket office at Deepdale.
The away ticket office is located at the Bill Shankly Kop, adjacent to the away turnstiles.
Get your vaccination today
“We hope it provides an accessible and convenient chance for supporters of both the Lilywhites, and our visitors Swansea City, to be able to get a first or second dose of the vaccine while attending the game.” Dr Zak Patel, Clinical Director, the Preston North Primary Care Network (PCN) said: “We are incredibly proud to be able to offer a mobile Covid-19 vaccination clinic in a place that is convenient and accessible, for footballers and fans alike. “Whether you’re looking forward to getting back to spending time with family and friends, planning your next holiday or counting down the days until your favourite festival, the vaccine will help keep you and those around you safe.
Preston North End: Daniel Iversen, Sepp van den Berg, Ben Whiteman, Patrick Bauer, Daniel Johnson (captain), Jordan Storey, Andrew Hughes, Ryan Ledson, Emil Riis, Sean Maguire, Josh Earl.
Substitutes: Declan Rudd, Greg Cunningham, Josh Harrop, Joe Rafferty, Scott Sinclair, Joe Rodwell-Grant, Brad Pott.
Swansea City: Steven Benda; Joel Latibeaudiere, Ryan Bennett, Ryan Manning; Ethan Laird, Jay Fulton, Matt Grimes (captain), Jake Bidwell; Jamie Paterson; Liam Cullen, Joel Piroe.
Substitutes: Ben Hamer, Kyle Naughton, Brandon Cooper, Dan Williams, Yan Dhanda, Morgan Whittaker, Jamal Lowe.
https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/swanseacity/news/55643/russell-martin-agr
Nothing to follow.
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| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 12:07 - Aug 31 with 891 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 11:52 - Aug 31 by jack247 |
Clubs don’t let their most saleable assets run their contracts down when they are prepared to sign new ones. Same applies to Connor Roberts. Resigning on principle because the club were then prepared to listen to offers for him would be unusual to say the least.
When he left, it was the same team minus one of the best players in the Championship and a defender then sold for £20m, with Roberts out for 6-8 weeks, Plus Piroe and I think Walsh.
By ‘people’ I’m assuming you’re referring to other people. I was under no illusion that we’d have a difficult start and that was before I knew Martin would confound it with his system that puts huge pressure on the defensive midfielder. |
Agree, but I fully expected Grimes to sign a new contract, it's not like he is a talent on the world stage that will be attracting interest from all over. I didn't think there would be any Premier League interest and I don't think there has been thus far.
You keep referring to one single incident of many and giving that as a reason for resigning. I am clear in that I have said it was due to a breakdown of relationship that started in January and culminated when he finally jacked it in. In that time the club had essentially blocked his path to leaving and appeared to tell him they were selling his captain. These are reasons that have been reported and appear to add up in the timeline of events.
You don't appear to be understanding what I am saying with regards to ''the same team''. When we were without the two players you refer to - we picked up points consistently. That team (the one where we consistently picked up points without without Ayew and/or Guehi) is the same one we have now... plus a load of players added to it.
So picking up points shouldn't be a problem for this side, as we have proven time and time again we can without the pair, even more so now we have added a couple of million pounds worth of signings on top, including a million pound striker we were crying out for last season.
By 'people' I mean anyone who is suggesting that changing a style requires months and months (or even years) to show acceptable performances even though history tells us that has never been the case with us. If you come under that bracket then you would be one of those I am referring to, if not then it would be other people, yes. [Post edited 31 Aug 2021 12:17]
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| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 12:31 - Aug 31 with 871 views | jack247 |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 12:07 - Aug 31 by Dr_Parnassus |
Agree, but I fully expected Grimes to sign a new contract, it's not like he is a talent on the world stage that will be attracting interest from all over. I didn't think there would be any Premier League interest and I don't think there has been thus far.
You keep referring to one single incident of many and giving that as a reason for resigning. I am clear in that I have said it was due to a breakdown of relationship that started in January and culminated when he finally jacked it in. In that time the club had essentially blocked his path to leaving and appeared to tell him they were selling his captain. These are reasons that have been reported and appear to add up in the timeline of events.
You don't appear to be understanding what I am saying with regards to ''the same team''. When we were without the two players you refer to - we picked up points consistently. That team (the one where we consistently picked up points without without Ayew and/or Guehi) is the same one we have now... plus a load of players added to it.
So picking up points shouldn't be a problem for this side, as we have proven time and time again we can without the pair, even more so now we have added a couple of million pounds worth of signings on top, including a million pound striker we were crying out for last season.
By 'people' I mean anyone who is suggesting that changing a style requires months and months (or even years) to show acceptable performances even though history tells us that has never been the case with us. If you come under that bracket then you would be one of those I am referring to, if not then it would be other people, yes. [Post edited 31 Aug 2021 12:17]
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No, he’s not Mbappe, but based on the last two seasons, he’d clearly have options. There doesn’t need to be Premier League interest, a Fulham or Bournemouth would do nicely. He was in a position where he could wait to see if we went up last season before committing.
I keep referring to Grimes in this context as you’ve said you believe it had a lot to do with the resignation and was the final straw.
I had misunderstood your point. You were saying that we consistently picked up points without those two players, even though Ayew missed 7 games in 2 seasons. I’m not sure how many of those 7 Guehi also missed.
I agree, we could have played a more similar style to Coopers and picked up more points. The trade off would have been the players we retain would have been 7 games back in getting used to the style they will be playing going forward. I thought we’d covered that but it could have been a different conversation with someone else.
We haven’t brought Martin in to play Coopers football. There would have been plenty more suitable, probably cheaper, options if that’s what we wanted.
I’m not fully onboard with the tactics at all, it’s getting to the point where I can’t under why he thinks it will work, however I am prepared to see how it goes when he replaces players he doesn’t want with players he does. |  | | |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 12:41 - Aug 31 with 859 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 12:31 - Aug 31 by jack247 |
No, he’s not Mbappe, but based on the last two seasons, he’d clearly have options. There doesn’t need to be Premier League interest, a Fulham or Bournemouth would do nicely. He was in a position where he could wait to see if we went up last season before committing.
I keep referring to Grimes in this context as you’ve said you believe it had a lot to do with the resignation and was the final straw.
I had misunderstood your point. You were saying that we consistently picked up points without those two players, even though Ayew missed 7 games in 2 seasons. I’m not sure how many of those 7 Guehi also missed.
I agree, we could have played a more similar style to Coopers and picked up more points. The trade off would have been the players we retain would have been 7 games back in getting used to the style they will be playing going forward. I thought we’d covered that but it could have been a different conversation with someone else.
We haven’t brought Martin in to play Coopers football. There would have been plenty more suitable, probably cheaper, options if that’s what we wanted.
I’m not fully onboard with the tactics at all, it’s getting to the point where I can’t under why he thinks it will work, however I am prepared to see how it goes when he replaces players he doesn’t want with players he does. |
Options of which we would be one of them, I think we would have offered him just as much as anyone interested would and they would all be Championship. I thought there was an excellent chance the club captain would sign again.
It isn’t what I think, it’s what was widely reported.
Yes whenever we were without them, we were capable of adapting and picking up points. That side that was left to do that is the same one we have now, plus a load of signings on top.
We don’t need to play a similar style to Coopers. Pragmatism comes in a variety of styles, Coopers was just one. How we played against Bristol City was an example of a middle ground that we could play and be successful until we are ready to go full tiki taka… yet the players were criticised for showing they could do that. | |
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| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 13:00 - Aug 31 with 850 views | jack247 |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 12:41 - Aug 31 by Dr_Parnassus |
Options of which we would be one of them, I think we would have offered him just as much as anyone interested would and they would all be Championship. I thought there was an excellent chance the club captain would sign again.
It isn’t what I think, it’s what was widely reported.
Yes whenever we were without them, we were capable of adapting and picking up points. That side that was left to do that is the same one we have now, plus a load of signings on top.
We don’t need to play a similar style to Coopers. Pragmatism comes in a variety of styles, Coopers was just one. How we played against Bristol City was an example of a middle ground that we could play and be successful until we are ready to go full tiki taka… yet the players were criticised for showing they could do that. |
You thought that and I guess he still might, Steve Cooper evidently didn’t. That’s the reason I keep referring to it anyway. I think the club looking to cash in on a player running down his contract is a very odd key factor in a decision to leave.
The Bristol City game for me, wasn’t any better or worse than the Preston game, wasn’t a lot better than Stoke. The main difference was they didn’t take their chances. I’d guess they had a similar number of shots to both the teams that stuffed us. Towards the end, we did get more pragmatic at the back, which I guess is what Martin was referring to.
I don’t think the football was much better, it was just more exciting as we were hanging on to a lead. | | | |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 13:10 - Aug 31 with 835 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 13:00 - Aug 31 by jack247 |
You thought that and I guess he still might, Steve Cooper evidently didn’t. That’s the reason I keep referring to it anyway. I think the club looking to cash in on a player running down his contract is a very odd key factor in a decision to leave.
The Bristol City game for me, wasn’t any better or worse than the Preston game, wasn’t a lot better than Stoke. The main difference was they didn’t take their chances. I’d guess they had a similar number of shots to both the teams that stuffed us. Towards the end, we did get more pragmatic at the back, which I guess is what Martin was referring to.
I don’t think the football was much better, it was just more exciting as we were hanging on to a lead. |
I did, Cooper may well have too but was apparently told after the season that he was being sold.
Whether you think it’s odd or not isn’t really the point, it appears Cooper had faith he would be staying and was let down with the clubs desire to sell and that become one of many reasons that culminated in a breakdown of relationship. That’s what has been reported and makes complete sense to me, so no reason to doubt its veracity or make up any alternate scenarios.
The Bristol City game was much better without a shadow of a doubt. Movement, purpose, defensive nouse (double the % of long clearances), directness - it was all streets ahead of anything we had seen in the league previously under Martin. I fully believed we would hold on in the game, where as against Preston I was fully expecting not to, because we reverted back to the opposite of what was listed above and was only a matter of time before we conceded… and conceded… and conceded. | |
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| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 13:36 - Aug 31 with 808 views | jack247 |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 13:10 - Aug 31 by Dr_Parnassus |
I did, Cooper may well have too but was apparently told after the season that he was being sold.
Whether you think it’s odd or not isn’t really the point, it appears Cooper had faith he would be staying and was let down with the clubs desire to sell and that become one of many reasons that culminated in a breakdown of relationship. That’s what has been reported and makes complete sense to me, so no reason to doubt its veracity or make up any alternate scenarios.
The Bristol City game was much better without a shadow of a doubt. Movement, purpose, defensive nouse (double the % of long clearances), directness - it was all streets ahead of anything we had seen in the league previously under Martin. I fully believed we would hold on in the game, where as against Preston I was fully expecting not to, because we reverted back to the opposite of what was listed above and was only a matter of time before we conceded… and conceded… and conceded. |
That’s fine, but if it’s genuinely the case (as opposed to being reported by a fans site on Twitter) then Cooper was incredibly naive. Any club in our position would look to cash in in that scenario.
Bristol City game - more exciting definitely. Very open. We had less shots and conceded more shots than we did against Stoke. I didn’t think we’d concede towards the end either. I definitely thought a goal was coming in the first half. They just weren’t clinical. | | | |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 13:43 - Aug 31 with 804 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 13:36 - Aug 31 by jack247 |
That’s fine, but if it’s genuinely the case (as opposed to being reported by a fans site on Twitter) then Cooper was incredibly naive. Any club in our position would look to cash in in that scenario.
Bristol City game - more exciting definitely. Very open. We had less shots and conceded more shots than we did against Stoke. I didn’t think we’d concede towards the end either. I definitely thought a goal was coming in the first half. They just weren’t clinical. |
Reported by a fans site? The Daily Mail.
They have always had an excellent record with Swansea reporting. I don’t believe it was naive at all, there must have been some assurances there that was broken. We don’t know what went on behind the scenes. But again, you are referring to once incident of many.
Exciting? Not sure. I found last year exciting, I love many facets of the game and take just as much joy out of the tactical and defensive side as the attacking side. I’m a football purist I suppose and often watch back highlights of tackles and clocks while others just have the play ground mentality of goals. Not a criticism, just a different way of viewing the game.
As a result I was absolutely confident that we would hold on to that win, as we weren’t shackled by an insane instruction to always look for a short pass regardless of situation. I can only assume that was the instruction anyway considering our absolute insistence to do it. There was also a far more nuanced defensive positioning which I touched upon and demonstrated after the game where passes were not directed along the back but forward from a centralised position in defence.
It was streets ahead of anything we saw before, and subsequently since. | |
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| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 13:56 - Aug 31 with 800 views | jack247 |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 13:43 - Aug 31 by Dr_Parnassus |
Reported by a fans site? The Daily Mail.
They have always had an excellent record with Swansea reporting. I don’t believe it was naive at all, there must have been some assurances there that was broken. We don’t know what went on behind the scenes. But again, you are referring to once incident of many.
Exciting? Not sure. I found last year exciting, I love many facets of the game and take just as much joy out of the tactical and defensive side as the attacking side. I’m a football purist I suppose and often watch back highlights of tackles and clocks while others just have the play ground mentality of goals. Not a criticism, just a different way of viewing the game.
As a result I was absolutely confident that we would hold on to that win, as we weren’t shackled by an insane instruction to always look for a short pass regardless of situation. I can only assume that was the instruction anyway considering our absolute insistence to do it. There was also a far more nuanced defensive positioning which I touched upon and demonstrated after the game where passes were not directed along the back but forward from a centralised position in defence.
It was streets ahead of anything we saw before, and subsequently since. |
You don’t believe Cooper would have been naive for believing we wouldn’t sell a player with a year left who wouldn’t sign a new contract? He knew exactly how it worked here when he signed.
I’m referring to that because you’ve stated it was a key factor in him leaving and was the last straw. Your link backs that up so it’s reasonable to discuss, particularly when the clubs stance is completely normal. Completely understand he’d have been unhappy in the January window, but not so unhappy he didn’t want a new contract in April.
What you find exciting is personal I guess. I can understand the purist stance and appreciate last seasons games from that viewpoint. I’d be hard pushed to describe many of them as exciting though. It wasn’t bum off seat type football. | | | |
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| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 14:08 - Aug 31 with 794 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 13:56 - Aug 31 by jack247 |
You don’t believe Cooper would have been naive for believing we wouldn’t sell a player with a year left who wouldn’t sign a new contract? He knew exactly how it worked here when he signed.
I’m referring to that because you’ve stated it was a key factor in him leaving and was the last straw. Your link backs that up so it’s reasonable to discuss, particularly when the clubs stance is completely normal. Completely understand he’d have been unhappy in the January window, but not so unhappy he didn’t want a new contract in April.
What you find exciting is personal I guess. I can understand the purist stance and appreciate last seasons games from that viewpoint. I’d be hard pushed to describe many of them as exciting though. It wasn’t bum off seat type football. |
How do we know he wouldn’t sign a new contract? He had 2 seasons left, he may well have signed a new contact. I certainly believed he would, being club captain would not doubt be offered same money and almost certain to get no offers from higher up the leagues. In fact I felt it a very realistic prospect.
I didn’t state it was key, I said it was reportedly one of the reasons the relationship broke down between Cooper and club. I am simply telling you what has been reported by sources with excellent media reputation for accurate Swansea information. This was in response to you making up the scenario that he left because “he bottled it after Ayew and Guehi left”. It doesn’t appear to have anything to do with bottle, Guehi or Ayew.
Whether he was willing to sign a new contract since January is irrelevant. That’s why it is reported that it is a cumulation of things is opposed to a single incident. If we were saying January is the sole reason he left then you would have a point, but all sources have been clear that’s not the case and is only one of many reasons that came to a head after the season finished. No doubt the straw that broke the camels back was when we were reportedly asking for millions in compensation for his services.
Exciting is a term that is not universal. Many people find the movie franchise John Wick exciting, I can’t think of a more mind numbing set of movies. As for bums off seat exciting… well neither is this, is it? Or even anything closely resembling it.
I was certainly more excited winning games and having excellent defensive organisation than I have been this season frustratedly giving the ball away 50 times a game and having our goal peppered with shots while we create next to nothing. It’s horrendous, truly horrendous.
Despite what people are convincing themselves of. | |
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| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 14:30 - Aug 31 with 776 views | vetchonian |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 13:00 - Aug 31 by jack247 |
You thought that and I guess he still might, Steve Cooper evidently didn’t. That’s the reason I keep referring to it anyway. I think the club looking to cash in on a player running down his contract is a very odd key factor in a decision to leave.
The Bristol City game for me, wasn’t any better or worse than the Preston game, wasn’t a lot better than Stoke. The main difference was they didn’t take their chances. I’d guess they had a similar number of shots to both the teams that stuffed us. Towards the end, we did get more pragmatic at the back, which I guess is what Martin was referring to.
I don’t think the football was much better, it was just more exciting as we were hanging on to a lead. |
yet when we supposedly sat back and hung onto a 1-o lead season it was boring? | |
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| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 14:34 - Aug 31 with 770 views | jack247 |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 14:08 - Aug 31 by Dr_Parnassus |
How do we know he wouldn’t sign a new contract? He had 2 seasons left, he may well have signed a new contact. I certainly believed he would, being club captain would not doubt be offered same money and almost certain to get no offers from higher up the leagues. In fact I felt it a very realistic prospect.
I didn’t state it was key, I said it was reportedly one of the reasons the relationship broke down between Cooper and club. I am simply telling you what has been reported by sources with excellent media reputation for accurate Swansea information. This was in response to you making up the scenario that he left because “he bottled it after Ayew and Guehi left”. It doesn’t appear to have anything to do with bottle, Guehi or Ayew.
Whether he was willing to sign a new contract since January is irrelevant. That’s why it is reported that it is a cumulation of things is opposed to a single incident. If we were saying January is the sole reason he left then you would have a point, but all sources have been clear that’s not the case and is only one of many reasons that came to a head after the season finished. No doubt the straw that broke the camels back was when we were reportedly asking for millions in compensation for his services.
Exciting is a term that is not universal. Many people find the movie franchise John Wick exciting, I can’t think of a more mind numbing set of movies. As for bums off seat exciting… well neither is this, is it? Or even anything closely resembling it.
I was certainly more excited winning games and having excellent defensive organisation than I have been this season frustratedly giving the ball away 50 times a game and having our goal peppered with shots while we create next to nothing. It’s horrendous, truly horrendous.
Despite what people are convincing themselves of. |
You didn’t say it was a key issue, you said it had a lot to do with Grimes being sold. There’s not much difference there.
Grimes may have signed a new contract before he had bigger, richer clubs interested in him. He was sitting pretty last season. If we’d gone up, I’m sure he would have. If we didn’t he’d be sold or could see out one more season and go with a big signing on fee.
What I said was that if Cooper still had those players at his disposal, I doubt he’d have bottled it. There was no realistic prospect of keeping either without promotion. It was hypothetical and in response to your post that implied we’d have as many points without Ayew as with him last season.
No, this season isn’t exciting either. The Bristol City game was in patches, as was Saturdays up until we scored and they quickly equalised. After that, it reverted to type. If he can sort the distribution from defensive midfield out instead of going back to defenders or Benda, it may turn out that way. At the moment, it’s tedious. | | | |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 14:46 - Aug 31 with 754 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 14:34 - Aug 31 by jack247 |
You didn’t say it was a key issue, you said it had a lot to do with Grimes being sold. There’s not much difference there.
Grimes may have signed a new contract before he had bigger, richer clubs interested in him. He was sitting pretty last season. If we’d gone up, I’m sure he would have. If we didn’t he’d be sold or could see out one more season and go with a big signing on fee.
What I said was that if Cooper still had those players at his disposal, I doubt he’d have bottled it. There was no realistic prospect of keeping either without promotion. It was hypothetical and in response to your post that implied we’d have as many points without Ayew as with him last season.
No, this season isn’t exciting either. The Bristol City game was in patches, as was Saturdays up until we scored and they quickly equalised. After that, it reverted to type. If he can sort the distribution from defensive midfield out instead of going back to defenders or Benda, it may turn out that way. At the moment, it’s tedious. |
It wasn’t the term that was used which was my point. You made it sound like it was my opinion, I was simply telling you what was widely reported. It wasn’t what “I” said that has anything to do with it, what I said is simply what was reported.
I thought it was likely Grimes would have signed anyway, as did Cooper apparently. There must have been some assurances there for him to reportedly become so annoyed by it. A captaincy on decent money in the championship where he is guaranteed a start every game vs similar money, unlikely captaincy and not guaranteed starting minutes I can’t imagine is too exciting a prospect for him. Maybe it is, who knows. But to say it was extremely unlikely he would sign a new contract is wide of the mark, it was clearly a distinct possibility.
Yes I know you said that, but there is no evidence he did “bottle it”. That is an assumption based on nothing other than yet another urge to frame things in the negative. The reports are that it had nothing to do with “bottle” nothing to do with Ayew and nothing to do with Guehi. Maybe if Messi had been promised he may have stuck around too though, who knows. But it’s reported he left after a breakdown of relationship starting from the events in January leading up to pre season where his move was blocked and told his captain was going to be sold.
I didn’t imply we would have as many points without Ayew, you took it that it was the implication of the point. My point was we are more than capable of adapting and picking up points at this level without Ayew, we did so consistently when he wasn’t available. We lost just once.
I went on to state the side without those two players is the same side as we have now, except we have added a million pound striker and a host of others. There is zero reason we wouldn't be picking up a respectable points tally along the way.
So far this is the most boring and depressing seasons for probably 20 years. During that time many managers have come in and changed the style, radically sometimes. This myth that it requires months on end, or even years, is just that… a myth. | |
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| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 15:04 - Aug 31 with 746 views | Dewi1jack |
Ah well.
Back to the old Swansea way.
Thought after the Stroke game it was going to be a long, hard season, much like we used to endure down the Vetch.
Hope we don't lose too many of our fanbase, as they're not used to seeing us struggle for a full season.
Normally I'm full of hope ( top half finish, win the F A Cupppaaahhhh etc).
Stoke game saw that off
Still giving Martin 15 games to sort things (5 extra on the normal 10, because of our pre season let's not replace a manager having talks with others plan)
Looking to stay up and the owners can have another go next summer.
Sooner the Trust has a good go at getting money in the bank the better.
Think we may need it if relegation hits, although the club seems to now be running sustainably, that's one good thing
Quite pessimistic (or an optimistic realist) for the season |  |
| If you wake up breathing, thats a good start to your day and you'll make many thousands of people envious. |
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| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 15:19 - Aug 31 with 736 views | jack247 |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 14:46 - Aug 31 by Dr_Parnassus |
It wasn’t the term that was used which was my point. You made it sound like it was my opinion, I was simply telling you what was widely reported. It wasn’t what “I” said that has anything to do with it, what I said is simply what was reported.
I thought it was likely Grimes would have signed anyway, as did Cooper apparently. There must have been some assurances there for him to reportedly become so annoyed by it. A captaincy on decent money in the championship where he is guaranteed a start every game vs similar money, unlikely captaincy and not guaranteed starting minutes I can’t imagine is too exciting a prospect for him. Maybe it is, who knows. But to say it was extremely unlikely he would sign a new contract is wide of the mark, it was clearly a distinct possibility.
Yes I know you said that, but there is no evidence he did “bottle it”. That is an assumption based on nothing other than yet another urge to frame things in the negative. The reports are that it had nothing to do with “bottle” nothing to do with Ayew and nothing to do with Guehi. Maybe if Messi had been promised he may have stuck around too though, who knows. But it’s reported he left after a breakdown of relationship starting from the events in January leading up to pre season where his move was blocked and told his captain was going to be sold.
I didn’t imply we would have as many points without Ayew, you took it that it was the implication of the point. My point was we are more than capable of adapting and picking up points at this level without Ayew, we did so consistently when he wasn’t available. We lost just once.
I went on to state the side without those two players is the same side as we have now, except we have added a million pound striker and a host of others. There is zero reason we wouldn't be picking up a respectable points tally along the way.
So far this is the most boring and depressing seasons for probably 20 years. During that time many managers have come in and changed the style, radically sometimes. This myth that it requires months on end, or even years, is just that… a myth. |
Then Coopers issue is with Grimes not signing a new contract, rather than with the club. Weird point of principle to resign on, even if it is just a major part of a bigger picture.
You’re never going to get a report saying a manager left because he didn’t think he would be able to match his previous seasons achievements with a weaker squad. Whether people believe that ever happens is up to them.
Your post absolutely implied that. You factored the points we gained over 7 games over 92 and concluded it averaged out the same points tally as last season (you didnt say this, but it was more than the season before). You didn’t implicitly state those players didn’t add much to our points tally, but you left the calculation there for a reason.
I haven’t disagreed with your penultimate paragraph and won’t do.
Your last paragraph, again I can’t argue, but it’s been 5 games. There are excuses (on here, not from Martin) and genuine reasons it’s gone badly so far. A week Saturday, Martin will have more of his own players in and will have had his longest period to work with players without games. There will be less genuine reasons if things don’t improve. | | | |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 15:38 - Aug 31 with 713 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 15:19 - Aug 31 by jack247 |
Then Coopers issue is with Grimes not signing a new contract, rather than with the club. Weird point of principle to resign on, even if it is just a major part of a bigger picture.
You’re never going to get a report saying a manager left because he didn’t think he would be able to match his previous seasons achievements with a weaker squad. Whether people believe that ever happens is up to them.
Your post absolutely implied that. You factored the points we gained over 7 games over 92 and concluded it averaged out the same points tally as last season (you didnt say this, but it was more than the season before). You didn’t implicitly state those players didn’t add much to our points tally, but you left the calculation there for a reason.
I haven’t disagreed with your penultimate paragraph and won’t do.
Your last paragraph, again I can’t argue, but it’s been 5 games. There are excuses (on here, not from Martin) and genuine reasons it’s gone badly so far. A week Saturday, Martin will have more of his own players in and will have had his longest period to work with players without games. There will be less genuine reasons if things don’t improve. |
We have no idea what the issue with Grimes was. It appears Cooper was told he would be sold rather than Grimes wouldn’t sign one. Not sure how many times I can make the same point about it being one of many issues, but I’m sure you know full well it was.
You are saying that is if you believe these conflicts have been fabricated by the media? I think it’s absolutely clear to everyone that the relationship started to break down from January. I don’t see why reporters and those close to the club would choose to lie to you. I would say it’s far more likely that you would again be looking for the angle that attacks Cooper as opposed to that states the reality of the situation. But we have talked about that before.
Cooper lost Gallagher, Rodon, VdH and Brewster and decided to fight on, so history also doesn’t look favourable on the “no bottle because he lost two players” theory. Maybe it’s best we go with the realities of what we know which is backed by what is reported rather than making wild accusations with no basis at all?
My post absolutely did not imply that, hence why I told you it didn’t the second you asked me. My post was a visual representation of the type of form the club showed when we were without players that are seen as integral to getting results. I showed that we were perfectly capable of adapting and getting points consistently without them. You thought that is what I implied, that could be accurate to say. But I quickly corrected you on that.
The excuses given on here are mostly nonsense. I don’t buy the main “fitness” thing for a second. We have looked hapless from minute 1 of Martins reign, it was like the Alamo at Blackburn. Not seen many starts like it. But fair enough, first game and all, hoping lessons were learned with the set up and the reason why Cooper didn’t adopt that style. We are now 7 games into the season and these same basic tactical errors are going unaddressed.
We need to start seeing performances and results. Not in 2 years time or 18 months time. Now.
Nobody else has needed months on end to put in respectable performances, the only reason people are suggesting that is the case now - is simply because they don’t want to face up to the fact that maybe the way they were screaming for over the last 2 years may not have been the sensible way to go about things after all. [Post edited 31 Aug 2021 15:57]
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| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 16:40 - Aug 31 with 691 views | jack247 |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 15:38 - Aug 31 by Dr_Parnassus |
We have no idea what the issue with Grimes was. It appears Cooper was told he would be sold rather than Grimes wouldn’t sign one. Not sure how many times I can make the same point about it being one of many issues, but I’m sure you know full well it was.
You are saying that is if you believe these conflicts have been fabricated by the media? I think it’s absolutely clear to everyone that the relationship started to break down from January. I don’t see why reporters and those close to the club would choose to lie to you. I would say it’s far more likely that you would again be looking for the angle that attacks Cooper as opposed to that states the reality of the situation. But we have talked about that before.
Cooper lost Gallagher, Rodon, VdH and Brewster and decided to fight on, so history also doesn’t look favourable on the “no bottle because he lost two players” theory. Maybe it’s best we go with the realities of what we know which is backed by what is reported rather than making wild accusations with no basis at all?
My post absolutely did not imply that, hence why I told you it didn’t the second you asked me. My post was a visual representation of the type of form the club showed when we were without players that are seen as integral to getting results. I showed that we were perfectly capable of adapting and getting points consistently without them. You thought that is what I implied, that could be accurate to say. But I quickly corrected you on that.
The excuses given on here are mostly nonsense. I don’t buy the main “fitness” thing for a second. We have looked hapless from minute 1 of Martins reign, it was like the Alamo at Blackburn. Not seen many starts like it. But fair enough, first game and all, hoping lessons were learned with the set up and the reason why Cooper didn’t adopt that style. We are now 7 games into the season and these same basic tactical errors are going unaddressed.
We need to start seeing performances and results. Not in 2 years time or 18 months time. Now.
Nobody else has needed months on end to put in respectable performances, the only reason people are suggesting that is the case now - is simply because they don’t want to face up to the fact that maybe the way they were screaming for over the last 2 years may not have been the sensible way to go about things after all. [Post edited 31 Aug 2021 15:57]
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No it’s not the only point. He was apparently also frustrated with the January transfer window and our insistence on compensation (which I can’t believe we weren’t prepared to negotiate given what transpired). There may have been others. However it does seem it was a big part of his decision and was also outside the clubs control. Grimes wasn’t being sold until he and we knew which division we’d be in.
I’m not for a second saying there was no conflict. I’m saying that you rarely, if ever, see reports of managers leaving jobs because they don’t feel they can match the previous seasons achievements with a weakened squad. In my view, as I’ve said above, the club insisting on a full buy out clause for a manager whose feelings they were fully aware of would be insane. The Grimes thing would be as well (as one of the biggest reasons to walk).
Losing Gallagher, Rodon, Brewster and VdH was fine, but the player who was running down his contract was the final straw? Ok.
Yes, your post implied that. ‘A visual representation of the type of form the club showed when we were without players that were seen as integral to getting results’ implies it as well.
I’m still not arguing with you about excuses or performances. They haven’t been good enough. I agree, they need to start improving from the next game.
I’m a Swansea City fan, I’m not a Steve Cooper or a Russell Martin fan. I’m not going to sit here and defend Martin on things I think are wrong. I gave him the benefit of the doubt for the first couple of games. I think he does have some genuine extenuating circumstances. At the same time, I expected better than we’ve seen so far and think even accounting for the style change and no pre season, he could and should have done better so far. | | | |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 16:59 - Aug 31 with 686 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 16:40 - Aug 31 by jack247 |
No it’s not the only point. He was apparently also frustrated with the January transfer window and our insistence on compensation (which I can’t believe we weren’t prepared to negotiate given what transpired). There may have been others. However it does seem it was a big part of his decision and was also outside the clubs control. Grimes wasn’t being sold until he and we knew which division we’d be in.
I’m not for a second saying there was no conflict. I’m saying that you rarely, if ever, see reports of managers leaving jobs because they don’t feel they can match the previous seasons achievements with a weakened squad. In my view, as I’ve said above, the club insisting on a full buy out clause for a manager whose feelings they were fully aware of would be insane. The Grimes thing would be as well (as one of the biggest reasons to walk).
Losing Gallagher, Rodon, Brewster and VdH was fine, but the player who was running down his contract was the final straw? Ok.
Yes, your post implied that. ‘A visual representation of the type of form the club showed when we were without players that were seen as integral to getting results’ implies it as well.
I’m still not arguing with you about excuses or performances. They haven’t been good enough. I agree, they need to start improving from the next game.
I’m a Swansea City fan, I’m not a Steve Cooper or a Russell Martin fan. I’m not going to sit here and defend Martin on things I think are wrong. I gave him the benefit of the doubt for the first couple of games. I think he does have some genuine extenuating circumstances. At the same time, I expected better than we’ve seen so far and think even accounting for the style change and no pre season, he could and should have done better so far. |
They were all big parts of his decision by the sounds of it. Understandably so. None of it points to “bottle” though, I think that was just being silly again on the subject of Cooper. History provides no foundation for it.
Of course you don’t often see reports like that. It’s very rare you get a manager step down after a successful season, that’s why. When that happens it’s usually due to some sort of conflict, which is clearly the case here.
Yes losing those players were fine, it was expected. I fully expected every single one of those to go and was no doubt part of the plan all along. I don’t believe selling Grimes was ever part of the plan and certainly don’t think Cooper felt it was either. Again, it’s not who was being lost but how they were being lost, principle.
It certainly does not imply that. Again you mistakenly thought it implies that, but you were quickly corrected on that. It simply is the visual tool it was described as, we cooked perfectly well without these players and are without them now. Losing them is no excuse to be playing horrendously incapable of putting decent results together because the last manager consistently won games and picked up points without them. Over those 9 games our return was in keeping with the form we showed over the rest of the season, it’s simply a fact.
They needed to start improving after the first game, not the seventh. Progression is what we are calling for but I’m not seeing any. I’m seeing the same tactical errors being made over and over again and expecting different results. I’m seeing players correcting things they see as wrong, proving themselves right and being criticised for it, only to return to the old way and getting battered again.
Yes you are Swansea fan, but you are a Swansea fan that has a chip on your shoulder about our old manager as many others do. No point in denying it. As a result you defend things from Martin you wouldn’t for Cooper. You seemed to ensure that Martin wouldn’t be blamed for this window yet you didn’t do anything for the sort when Cooper was being blamed for January. You were saying how Cooper wasn’t wanted because he wasn’t first choice for the teams that wanted him yet never made the point regarding Martin not being our first choice… etc etc
As a result of this we are now seeing swathes of people advocating for months and years before we are competitive, completely at ends with reality in order to save face and realise that what we were going was better after all and this pipe dream to hark back to times gone by is damaging the club. We played that way because we had the players to do so, it made sense. If we didn’t, it wouldn’t have worked. | |
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| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 17:49 - Aug 31 with 676 views | jack247 |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 16:59 - Aug 31 by Dr_Parnassus |
They were all big parts of his decision by the sounds of it. Understandably so. None of it points to “bottle” though, I think that was just being silly again on the subject of Cooper. History provides no foundation for it.
Of course you don’t often see reports like that. It’s very rare you get a manager step down after a successful season, that’s why. When that happens it’s usually due to some sort of conflict, which is clearly the case here.
Yes losing those players were fine, it was expected. I fully expected every single one of those to go and was no doubt part of the plan all along. I don’t believe selling Grimes was ever part of the plan and certainly don’t think Cooper felt it was either. Again, it’s not who was being lost but how they were being lost, principle.
It certainly does not imply that. Again you mistakenly thought it implies that, but you were quickly corrected on that. It simply is the visual tool it was described as, we cooked perfectly well without these players and are without them now. Losing them is no excuse to be playing horrendously incapable of putting decent results together because the last manager consistently won games and picked up points without them. Over those 9 games our return was in keeping with the form we showed over the rest of the season, it’s simply a fact.
They needed to start improving after the first game, not the seventh. Progression is what we are calling for but I’m not seeing any. I’m seeing the same tactical errors being made over and over again and expecting different results. I’m seeing players correcting things they see as wrong, proving themselves right and being criticised for it, only to return to the old way and getting battered again.
Yes you are Swansea fan, but you are a Swansea fan that has a chip on your shoulder about our old manager as many others do. No point in denying it. As a result you defend things from Martin you wouldn’t for Cooper. You seemed to ensure that Martin wouldn’t be blamed for this window yet you didn’t do anything for the sort when Cooper was being blamed for January. You were saying how Cooper wasn’t wanted because he wasn’t first choice for the teams that wanted him yet never made the point regarding Martin not being our first choice… etc etc
As a result of this we are now seeing swathes of people advocating for months and years before we are competitive, completely at ends with reality in order to save face and realise that what we were going was better after all and this pipe dream to hark back to times gone by is damaging the club. We played that way because we had the players to do so, it made sense. If we didn’t, it wouldn’t have worked. |
I’ve told you before, I had nothing against Cooper when he was here and defended him plenty of times last season as you well know. I said I wanted him to stay several times in the summer.
There were plenty of things about him I didn’t like. Leaving us three weeks before the season started has soured my view of him as a person. He’s the past though. I won’t care if he has a brilliant career or doesn’t manage again.
I don’t expect you to believe that any more than I believe you weren’t implying anything with your calculation earlier. We’ll both live with it.
If Martin walks out on us at the same time of year, I’ll have something to say about that too. Again, you may or may not believe that.
Whether selling Grimes or not was part of the plan is irrelevant. You have to adapt and go to plan B if he refuses to sign a contract. You know that as well as anyone.
Was Cooper blamed for January? He was criticised (unfairly I’ll agree) for saying we didn’t have a striker. He was also blamed for continually playing Hourihane. I was chuffed with that signing at the time. Very much like Sanches, no one blamed for signing him, but justifiably did for persevering with him.
I’m not necessarily talking about you, but I do get the feeling one or two are happy Martin is struggling so they can be proved right about Cooper. | | | |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 18:08 - Aug 31 with 668 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 17:49 - Aug 31 by jack247 |
I’ve told you before, I had nothing against Cooper when he was here and defended him plenty of times last season as you well know. I said I wanted him to stay several times in the summer.
There were plenty of things about him I didn’t like. Leaving us three weeks before the season started has soured my view of him as a person. He’s the past though. I won’t care if he has a brilliant career or doesn’t manage again.
I don’t expect you to believe that any more than I believe you weren’t implying anything with your calculation earlier. We’ll both live with it.
If Martin walks out on us at the same time of year, I’ll have something to say about that too. Again, you may or may not believe that.
Whether selling Grimes or not was part of the plan is irrelevant. You have to adapt and go to plan B if he refuses to sign a contract. You know that as well as anyone.
Was Cooper blamed for January? He was criticised (unfairly I’ll agree) for saying we didn’t have a striker. He was also blamed for continually playing Hourihane. I was chuffed with that signing at the time. Very much like Sanches, no one blamed for signing him, but justifiably did for persevering with him.
I’m not necessarily talking about you, but I do get the feeling one or two are happy Martin is struggling so they can be proved right about Cooper. |
I know you have told me that.
But your irrational explanations and constant searching for the negative in every scenario paints a different story. I just don’t see how it’s possible that an impartial observer can continue to just “happen” to immediately fall to the negative scenario against all logic, historical evidence and reported evidence. It’s like you go out of your way to ignore the obvious to come up with the unlikely negative.
You said before you don’t buy certain caveats, I’m the same with token defences of the obvious. You were doing this long before he left, so not sure I buy that as an excuse.
I told you immediately what my point was regarding the calculation and even went on to expand and explain that I don’t believe that form would have kept up. So it’s a little odd to state you don’t believe me when I was incredibly clear as soon as it became apparent you misunderstood my point. I can’t help you further there I’m afraid. I was simply showing the sort of results and form we can achieve with this squad, without those players, short term maybe... but short term is what we are discussing.
If Martin walks out on us then you may well have something to say. But you wouldn’t have spent the last year painting everything in the negative and making up things regarding his actions that are not only baseless but extremely unlikely, too.
It’s not irrelevant. We have no idea the conversations that have gone on behind closed doors. Reading between the lines there does sound like there was some sort of boardroom promise there regarding Grimes, a bit like the Levi/Kane scenario that was walked back. Speculation of course but seems the likely scenario given how angry he was at the board rather than the player. So it’s not about plan B, it’s about principle.
Yes he was blamed for January by many people, he was blamed for loaning players too. I’m sure you were involved in some threads that was discussing it, I’d bet anything you didn’t correct anyone blaming him though.
I don’t think anyone is happy we are struggling. There seems to be a lot of justified anger that we look utterly awful.
People were already proven right about Cooper long before Martin came into the picture. We progressed every single year, finishing above our projected pre season forecasts with regards to performance vs budgets and made the play offs twice.
Frustrated “I told you so” maybe. But that’s always going to be the case when people are screaming for something that we clearly and set up for. It’s those fans reactions that I think has led us down this path, there is no way on earth the owners go down this route otherwise. That’s absolutely frustrating and people need to wake up and smell the coffee. [Post edited 31 Aug 2021 18:25]
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| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 18:21 - Aug 31 with 665 views | jack247 |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 14:30 - Aug 31 by vetchonian |
yet when we supposedly sat back and hung onto a 1-o lead season it was boring? |
The comparison was with losing to Preston and Stoke.
But yes, when we set out not to get beat and hopefully nick a goal, with very little attacking intent, it was boring. That wasn’t a Cooper thing, it was worse under Clement and Carvahal. | | | |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 18:27 - Aug 31 with 658 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 18:21 - Aug 31 by jack247 |
The comparison was with losing to Preston and Stoke.
But yes, when we set out not to get beat and hopefully nick a goal, with very little attacking intent, it was boring. That wasn’t a Cooper thing, it was worse under Clement and Carvahal. |
Boring for you, you mean?
Remember there are lots of people that much prefer the entertainment of their team winning 1-0 away by defending a lead over losing 3-1 away playing like schoolboys, not very exciting schoolboys at that. | |
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| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 19:14 - Aug 31 with 643 views | jack247 |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 18:27 - Aug 31 by Dr_Parnassus |
Boring for you, you mean?
Remember there are lots of people that much prefer the entertainment of their team winning 1-0 away by defending a lead over losing 3-1 away playing like schoolboys, not very exciting schoolboys at that. |
Of course there are. I’m not claiming the Stoke or Preston games were entertaining, they were depressing.
The Bristol City game was quite entertaining, I didn’t think we played much better than the other two, Bristol could have buried us by half time but didn’t take their chances.
This is more an answer to Vetchonian, but going more pragmatic for the last 20 minutes, in terms of longer clearances and not passing around the back so much is not comparable to starting games set for a 0-0 and hoping to get lucky.
I can understand people are entertained by winning, no matter how it comes. I don’t find it entertaining myself, but I’d certainly settle for it.
If I was a neutral, I’d have no interest in watching a Monk, Clement, Carvahal or Cooper team. I’d find the negative tactics boring. At this moment in time I wouldn’t be interested in Martin teams knocking triangles around the back and not going anywhere with it either. I’d pay to watch a Martinez, Rodgers, Laudrup or Potter team. | | | |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 19:37 - Aug 31 with 631 views | jack247 |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 18:08 - Aug 31 by Dr_Parnassus |
I know you have told me that.
But your irrational explanations and constant searching for the negative in every scenario paints a different story. I just don’t see how it’s possible that an impartial observer can continue to just “happen” to immediately fall to the negative scenario against all logic, historical evidence and reported evidence. It’s like you go out of your way to ignore the obvious to come up with the unlikely negative.
You said before you don’t buy certain caveats, I’m the same with token defences of the obvious. You were doing this long before he left, so not sure I buy that as an excuse.
I told you immediately what my point was regarding the calculation and even went on to expand and explain that I don’t believe that form would have kept up. So it’s a little odd to state you don’t believe me when I was incredibly clear as soon as it became apparent you misunderstood my point. I can’t help you further there I’m afraid. I was simply showing the sort of results and form we can achieve with this squad, without those players, short term maybe... but short term is what we are discussing.
If Martin walks out on us then you may well have something to say. But you wouldn’t have spent the last year painting everything in the negative and making up things regarding his actions that are not only baseless but extremely unlikely, too.
It’s not irrelevant. We have no idea the conversations that have gone on behind closed doors. Reading between the lines there does sound like there was some sort of boardroom promise there regarding Grimes, a bit like the Levi/Kane scenario that was walked back. Speculation of course but seems the likely scenario given how angry he was at the board rather than the player. So it’s not about plan B, it’s about principle.
Yes he was blamed for January by many people, he was blamed for loaning players too. I’m sure you were involved in some threads that was discussing it, I’d bet anything you didn’t correct anyone blaming him though.
I don’t think anyone is happy we are struggling. There seems to be a lot of justified anger that we look utterly awful.
People were already proven right about Cooper long before Martin came into the picture. We progressed every single year, finishing above our projected pre season forecasts with regards to performance vs budgets and made the play offs twice.
Frustrated “I told you so” maybe. But that’s always going to be the case when people are screaming for something that we clearly and set up for. It’s those fans reactions that I think has led us down this path, there is no way on earth the owners go down this route otherwise. That’s absolutely frustrating and people need to wake up and smell the coffee. [Post edited 31 Aug 2021 18:25]
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We aren’t going to start believing each other.
I’m never going to believe the club would ask for prohibitively high compensation for a manager then pay him off weeks later. Particularly when they would have been fully aware of his feelings on the matter and he’d practically told the world he wouldn’t be coming back after the playoff final.
I also find the notion of the Grimes thing being a key part of the decision to leave ‘on principle’ when he had a year left on his contract and didn’t want a new one, ridiculous.
I’m not disputing either of these things were widely reported, but I’m not the type to believe whatever is written in the media.
The only part of the reasoning I’m completely on board with is the January window. A fallout after that seems perfectly plausible, although he subsequently wanted an extension.
I understand you’re not going to believe I don’t care about Cooper one way or the other.
I thought he overachieved
I wanted him to stay
I didn’t find his football exciting
I didn’t like the way he never took accountability for bad results and performances.
The one issue I genuinely do have with him is leaving a few weeks before the season started. I do think that’s a bottle job. | | | |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 02:34 - Sep 1 with 601 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 19:37 - Aug 31 by jack247 |
We aren’t going to start believing each other.
I’m never going to believe the club would ask for prohibitively high compensation for a manager then pay him off weeks later. Particularly when they would have been fully aware of his feelings on the matter and he’d practically told the world he wouldn’t be coming back after the playoff final.
I also find the notion of the Grimes thing being a key part of the decision to leave ‘on principle’ when he had a year left on his contract and didn’t want a new one, ridiculous.
I’m not disputing either of these things were widely reported, but I’m not the type to believe whatever is written in the media.
The only part of the reasoning I’m completely on board with is the January window. A fallout after that seems perfectly plausible, although he subsequently wanted an extension.
I understand you’re not going to believe I don’t care about Cooper one way or the other.
I thought he overachieved
I wanted him to stay
I didn’t find his football exciting
I didn’t like the way he never took accountability for bad results and performances.
The one issue I genuinely do have with him is leaving a few weeks before the season started. I do think that’s a bottle job. |
There is nothing to believe, it’s there in black and white as soon as you were confused as to the point I made, I explained it to you in detail and was not alluding to anything of the sort. Just like when you were confused regarding my “same team” point. I corrected you immediately.
Whether you are going to believe it or not doesn’t matter, many people don’t believe the earth is round despite the proof. All we can do is continually show all the reports from all over the country, from those close to the buying clubs and of course our own common sense, which suggests that was exactly the case. We didn’t pay him off by choice, we paid him off after the deals were blocked and he told us he wasn’t going to continue, this was confirmed by the timeline of Winter.
Whether you find the Grimes issue ridiculous is also irrelevant. Many people also find the notion of the earth being round ridiculous, doesn’t mean it isn’t. There is no benefit to writing these things from the media, they are hardly viral or exciting points. If it wasn’t for our debate here, who would care? The Mail and the Atlantic have excellent track records with Swansea stories and seems like it’s more a case of you not wanting to believe what’s written and prefer pushing your own negative set of events that has absolutely no basis at all. You are literally the one person saying it. It’s fiction.
You definitely care about the Cooper thing. You have been making up these stories for months now and still continue to do so. When one is shown to be incorrect you fabricate another. It went from “touting” to “bottle”. Neither of which is backed by anything at all, and in fact opposed by an awful lot.
You were making bizarre non “unexciting football” related digs at him long before he left, so I don’t believe what you are saying is marrying up with what you have written.
You will always find a way to slag him off, even when there is absolutely nothing to do so. Any reports you will say you don’t believe and instead believe the events you just randomly made up in your head. It really is dumbfounding. | |
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| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 02:40 - Sep 1 with 598 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| PNE v Swansea City MATCHDAY AFTERMATH on 19:14 - Aug 31 by jack247 |
Of course there are. I’m not claiming the Stoke or Preston games were entertaining, they were depressing.
The Bristol City game was quite entertaining, I didn’t think we played much better than the other two, Bristol could have buried us by half time but didn’t take their chances.
This is more an answer to Vetchonian, but going more pragmatic for the last 20 minutes, in terms of longer clearances and not passing around the back so much is not comparable to starting games set for a 0-0 and hoping to get lucky.
I can understand people are entertained by winning, no matter how it comes. I don’t find it entertaining myself, but I’d certainly settle for it.
If I was a neutral, I’d have no interest in watching a Monk, Clement, Carvahal or Cooper team. I’d find the negative tactics boring. At this moment in time I wouldn’t be interested in Martin teams knocking triangles around the back and not going anywhere with it either. I’d pay to watch a Martinez, Rodgers, Laudrup or Potter team. |
We played much better at Bristol, wasn’t even close.
It was the most pragmatic style we played since he came here, and it was our best performance and best result.
It’s not a coincidence.
What you may do is great. However attendances increase with success and drop off with failure, this completely irrelevant of how the wins and losses are achieved.
Neutrals are absolutely attracted to success over how pretty something is. The evidence of that is extensive. | |
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