| Bristol City Match Fred 14:59 - Dec 1 with 41525 views | TheChef |
Fully expecting a defeat, but hope we can put in a decent performance over 90 minutes and get our reward for it. |  |
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| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:19 - Dec 1 with 2007 views | dannyblue |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:16 - Dec 1 by Ned_Kennedys |
No Plan B at all again, their manager saw what was causing them issues and dealt with it at HT with a substitution and a tactical change but Warburton couldn't or wouldn't respond accordingly.
Our recent 2nd half performances have been very worrying and it appears neither the management team or the players are able to respond when things start going against us.
BOS was dreadful in the 2nd half, just seemed to accept that he was marked out of the game and downed tools. [Post edited 1 Dec 2020 22:17]
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I do wonder if BOS is a bit of a flat track bully |  | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:20 - Dec 1 with 2003 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:08 - Dec 1 by Hunterhoop |
I am fed up.
I am beginning to question whether we are better off with it without Warburton. I don’t think it’s a moronic conversation.
We have conceded the 2nd highest number of goals for last season and this season (separately).
We have conceded the most from corners.
These are fixable things in football. Teams with worse players than us manage it. Set pieces have nothing to do with you open play shape or attacking set up.
In possession, fair play to Warburton we look excellent, almost as good as Warnock’s side and miles better than any team since. But how many do we score? How many games do we win? What is Warburton’s win %? Last year it was 16/46 and this season 4/15. That’s 32.8%. Lower than McClaren and in line with Holloway. And last year we had Eze, playing like he did, and Hugill and Wells. Holloway had Seb Poulter, Sylla and Smith.
But fundamentally, which direction are we going? Since lockdown started what’s our record? What does that say about his motivation?
What does this season’s repeated formula - start well, play well, maybe score, maybe go in level or up; HT; oppo make a change, we get worse, they get better; we draw or lose - say about his in game management?
After 40 mins, did you truly think we’d win or mess it up? What does that say about your faith in his in game ability?
We keep showing we have the talent to outplay anyone in this league for large chunks of the game. So it cannot be a lack of talent.
What is changing?
Warburton doesn’t produce the young players. Ramsey, Hall, etc do. Eze thanked them not Warburton.
I’m not quite there with saying we should bin him off, but I do think it’s an entirely fair conversation now.
He needs to start addressing our obvious issues. If he can’t improve them soon, what evidence is there to say he ever will? And if improvement is the aim of the game - what else can it be - why persist with someone who can’t improve you?
And to an earlier question, yes, I’d love us to grind out an ugly, undeserved 2-1 away win under constant pressure. It would show we’re improving as a professional football side. |
Warburton will never change - he's been the same at all his previous clubs. |  | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:20 - Dec 1 with 1990 views | Hunterhoop |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:12 - Dec 1 by karl |
It was a very bad defeat as I was surprised by how poor BC were, make no mistake they got out of jail and I'm sure an honest away fan will say that.
BOS needs a good player with him to get the most from him, Eze of course did this, too many times him and Kakay were looking at each other waiting for the link ball from each other. I think he's not sure of himself and needs leading but unfortunately he's the senior player to many in that team and they're looking for him to help them, his reluctance to pass across goal for Dykes is a concern.
Has it come from the training ground where Dykes isn't putting away enough of them? Could be as it is obvious he's struggling to read some balls that have been played in for him, since the change to getting players up in support of him I think he's been very good outside the box but needing to get on the right wavelength with his team mates playing him into the box. I don't think Bonne is better than him as we don't seem to improve when the straight swap is made |
It’s been apparent for some while - others have suggested the theory on here before - that BOS and Chair don’t pass to Dykes very often, even when he is clearly the only ball on. They hold on, stop, turn inside, or, in BOS’s case, try to shout from narrow angles.
Generously you could say they don’t get their heads up quicker than this, but I doubt that. Neither Chair nor BOS celebrated with Dykes after his goal against Brentford.
Hope I’m wrong, but having had someone point it out and watched it for a few games now, I think there is an issue there.
It’s utterly childish, if the case, of course. But it should be easy to stamp out with strong leadership... |  | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:22 - Dec 1 with 1972 views | ozexile |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:08 - Dec 1 by Hunterhoop |
I am fed up.
I am beginning to question whether we are better off with it without Warburton. I don’t think it’s a moronic conversation.
We have conceded the 2nd highest number of goals for last season and this season (separately).
We have conceded the most from corners.
These are fixable things in football. Teams with worse players than us manage it. Set pieces have nothing to do with you open play shape or attacking set up.
In possession, fair play to Warburton we look excellent, almost as good as Warnock’s side and miles better than any team since. But how many do we score? How many games do we win? What is Warburton’s win %? Last year it was 16/46 and this season 4/15. That’s 32.8%. Lower than McClaren and in line with Holloway. And last year we had Eze, playing like he did, and Hugill and Wells. Holloway had Seb Poulter, Sylla and Smith.
But fundamentally, which direction are we going? Since lockdown started what’s our record? What does that say about his motivation?
What does this season’s repeated formula - start well, play well, maybe score, maybe go in level or up; HT; oppo make a change, we get worse, they get better; we draw or lose - say about his in game management?
After 40 mins, did you truly think we’d win or mess it up? What does that say about your faith in his in game ability?
We keep showing we have the talent to outplay anyone in this league for large chunks of the game. So it cannot be a lack of talent.
What is changing?
Warburton doesn’t produce the young players. Ramsey, Hall, etc do. Eze thanked them not Warburton.
I’m not quite there with saying we should bin him off, but I do think it’s an entirely fair conversation now.
He needs to start addressing our obvious issues. If he can’t improve them soon, what evidence is there to say he ever will? And if improvement is the aim of the game - what else can it be - why persist with someone who can’t improve you?
And to an earlier question, yes, I’d love us to grind out an ugly, undeserved 2-1 away win under constant pressure. It would show we’re improving as a professional football side. |
Very good post and very true. Coaching a team when you're in possession is easy. Coaching a team when the other team has it is difficult. Warburton needs to get someone in who can do it asap. Cause it's clear no one on our staff is capable. | | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:26 - Dec 1 with 1929 views | flynnbo |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:05 - Dec 1 by NorthLondonR |
But again if you can't instill defensive discipline and Our left back today was the weak link again (made captain too) im not sure what you can do. He was awful absolutely awful and we just don't look comfortable defensively whatsoever...... we look vulnerable every time the ball goes forward and it doesn't need to be that way |
I make that at least 3 posts tonight where you've coated off Wallace. It's the whole defence which is fragile and, fwiw, I thought he wasn't too bad today. |  | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:27 - Dec 1 with 1918 views | paulparker |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:22 - Dec 1 by ozexile |
Very good post and very true. Coaching a team when you're in possession is easy. Coaching a team when the other team has it is difficult. Warburton needs to get someone in who can do it asap. Cause it's clear no one on our staff is capable. |
Under Warburton we have played 66 games and kept 8 clean sheets
A win ratio of 31%
I would say we are in big trouble this season because he isn’t going to change anything to what he knows |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:29 - Dec 1 with 1871 views | actonman |
Same old same old every game , can’t keep making the same mistakes time and time again then make the same excuses ..... fkin do something about it !
Warbs can’t take the blame for us not going in at half time 4 or 5 nil up , he set us up to start well and got it spot on . Games change on the slightest things , may it be a bad ref decision or a defensive mistake , both something we strive on and in fact expect , then we revert to a Sunday league pub team and turn to sh!t.... THIS IS WHERE YOU EARN YOURE CORN !!
We all know warby don’t do defending, so who the fcuk does ? Has anybody had a word ? Is it the same as last year, if so , how are they still employed ?
2 games in a row the opposition manager has seen the problem and changed his team to suit thus nullifying our tactics at the same time without reply
Really really fked off with that result tonight , especially as it was carbon copy of Friday night |  | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:32 - Dec 1 with 1832 views | NorthLondonR |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:26 - Dec 1 by flynnbo |
I make that at least 3 posts tonight where you've coated off Wallace. It's the whole defence which is fragile and, fwiw, I thought he wasn't too bad today. |
Wallace has not covered his post or position twice and in other games either, he was great going forward but just isn't good enough defensively. Way below adequate. He allows the left winger to effortlessly drift behind him unchallenged and has done time and again. He's not helped by Barbet at times but he doesn't seem to be aware of this whatsoever. We are weak down that side and when the ball is delivered from the right their left wing always steals a march on our left back... |  | | |
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| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:37 - Dec 1 with 1785 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:08 - Dec 1 by Hunterhoop |
I am fed up.
I am beginning to question whether we are better off with it without Warburton. I don’t think it’s a moronic conversation.
We have conceded the 2nd highest number of goals for last season and this season (separately).
We have conceded the most from corners.
These are fixable things in football. Teams with worse players than us manage it. Set pieces have nothing to do with you open play shape or attacking set up.
In possession, fair play to Warburton we look excellent, almost as good as Warnock’s side and miles better than any team since. But how many do we score? How many games do we win? What is Warburton’s win %? Last year it was 16/46 and this season 4/15. That’s 32.8%. Lower than McClaren and in line with Holloway. And last year we had Eze, playing like he did, and Hugill and Wells. Holloway had Seb Poulter, Sylla and Smith.
But fundamentally, which direction are we going? Since lockdown started what’s our record? What does that say about his motivation?
What does this season’s repeated formula - start well, play well, maybe score, maybe go in level or up; HT; oppo make a change, we get worse, they get better; we draw or lose - say about his in game management?
After 40 mins, did you truly think we’d win or mess it up? What does that say about your faith in his in game ability?
We keep showing we have the talent to outplay anyone in this league for large chunks of the game. So it cannot be a lack of talent.
What is changing?
Warburton doesn’t produce the young players. Ramsey, Hall, etc do. Eze thanked them not Warburton.
I’m not quite there with saying we should bin him off, but I do think it’s an entirely fair conversation now.
He needs to start addressing our obvious issues. If he can’t improve them soon, what evidence is there to say he ever will? And if improvement is the aim of the game - what else can it be - why persist with someone who can’t improve you?
And to an earlier question, yes, I’d love us to grind out an ugly, undeserved 2-1 away win under constant pressure. It would show we’re improving as a professional football side. |
Yeah but who turned Eze into a £20m player?
I am fed up too, but the only time to sack him, imo, is if we are bottom three and drowning and there is little hope. We are not there yet, nor do I expect us to be this season, because we can and do play well.
We've actually been playing well for quite a few games after the Barnsley debacle, got good draws with Watford (where the recent trend of first half/second half was not there, and we finished by far the stronger side), but I absolutely agree there are big problems. I don't really agree with even discussing changing the manager now, though. As I said, unless we are looking in dire danger of going down, I wouldn't even consider it for minimum 18 months, because there are a lot of positives. I know it's irrelevant to a large degree, but first 40 we were brilliant. It was wonderful football. |  |
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| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:43 - Dec 1 with 1731 views | Hunterhoop |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:37 - Dec 1 by Antti_Heinola |
Yeah but who turned Eze into a £20m player?
I am fed up too, but the only time to sack him, imo, is if we are bottom three and drowning and there is little hope. We are not there yet, nor do I expect us to be this season, because we can and do play well.
We've actually been playing well for quite a few games after the Barnsley debacle, got good draws with Watford (where the recent trend of first half/second half was not there, and we finished by far the stronger side), but I absolutely agree there are big problems. I don't really agree with even discussing changing the manager now, though. As I said, unless we are looking in dire danger of going down, I wouldn't even consider it for minimum 18 months, because there are a lot of positives. I know it's irrelevant to a large degree, but first 40 we were brilliant. It was wonderful football. |
No way can you credit Warburton with Eze! That is an exaggeration of Trump proportions. The man himself credited Hall, Ramsey and Impey. Yes, he thrived last year, and I believe Warburton played an important role, but who is to say the same wouldn’t have happened with many other managers? The signs were there the season before to many of us. | | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:44 - Dec 1 with 1721 views | ted_hendrix |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:08 - Dec 1 by Hunterhoop |
I am fed up.
I am beginning to question whether we are better off with it without Warburton. I don’t think it’s a moronic conversation.
We have conceded the 2nd highest number of goals for last season and this season (separately).
We have conceded the most from corners.
These are fixable things in football. Teams with worse players than us manage it. Set pieces have nothing to do with you open play shape or attacking set up.
In possession, fair play to Warburton we look excellent, almost as good as Warnock’s side and miles better than any team since. But how many do we score? How many games do we win? What is Warburton’s win %? Last year it was 16/46 and this season 4/15. That’s 32.8%. Lower than McClaren and in line with Holloway. And last year we had Eze, playing like he did, and Hugill and Wells. Holloway had Seb Poulter, Sylla and Smith.
But fundamentally, which direction are we going? Since lockdown started what’s our record? What does that say about his motivation?
What does this season’s repeated formula - start well, play well, maybe score, maybe go in level or up; HT; oppo make a change, we get worse, they get better; we draw or lose - say about his in game management?
After 40 mins, did you truly think we’d win or mess it up? What does that say about your faith in his in game ability?
We keep showing we have the talent to outplay anyone in this league for large chunks of the game. So it cannot be a lack of talent.
What is changing?
Warburton doesn’t produce the young players. Ramsey, Hall, etc do. Eze thanked them not Warburton.
I’m not quite there with saying we should bin him off, but I do think it’s an entirely fair conversation now.
He needs to start addressing our obvious issues. If he can’t improve them soon, what evidence is there to say he ever will? And if improvement is the aim of the game - what else can it be - why persist with someone who can’t improve you?
And to an earlier question, yes, I’d love us to grind out an ugly, undeserved 2-1 away win under constant pressure. It would show we’re improving as a professional football side. |
We know a ST holder at Glasgow Rangers, he messaged my lad that whilst at GR the football was in the main pretty good but during certain games when things started going 'tits up' he never seemed to be able to change things accordingly to suit the situation, basically when things started going wrong during the game he was found wanting.
Sound familiar? |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:47 - Dec 1 with 1692 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:08 - Dec 1 by Hunterhoop |
I am fed up.
I am beginning to question whether we are better off with it without Warburton. I don’t think it’s a moronic conversation.
We have conceded the 2nd highest number of goals for last season and this season (separately).
We have conceded the most from corners.
These are fixable things in football. Teams with worse players than us manage it. Set pieces have nothing to do with you open play shape or attacking set up.
In possession, fair play to Warburton we look excellent, almost as good as Warnock’s side and miles better than any team since. But how many do we score? How many games do we win? What is Warburton’s win %? Last year it was 16/46 and this season 4/15. That’s 32.8%. Lower than McClaren and in line with Holloway. And last year we had Eze, playing like he did, and Hugill and Wells. Holloway had Seb Poulter, Sylla and Smith.
But fundamentally, which direction are we going? Since lockdown started what’s our record? What does that say about his motivation?
What does this season’s repeated formula - start well, play well, maybe score, maybe go in level or up; HT; oppo make a change, we get worse, they get better; we draw or lose - say about his in game management?
After 40 mins, did you truly think we’d win or mess it up? What does that say about your faith in his in game ability?
We keep showing we have the talent to outplay anyone in this league for large chunks of the game. So it cannot be a lack of talent.
What is changing?
Warburton doesn’t produce the young players. Ramsey, Hall, etc do. Eze thanked them not Warburton.
I’m not quite there with saying we should bin him off, but I do think it’s an entirely fair conversation now.
He needs to start addressing our obvious issues. If he can’t improve them soon, what evidence is there to say he ever will? And if improvement is the aim of the game - what else can it be - why persist with someone who can’t improve you?
And to an earlier question, yes, I’d love us to grind out an ugly, undeserved 2-1 away win under constant pressure. It would show we’re improving as a professional football side. |
Some good points, Hunter.
I don't agree with your conclusion but it's a well argued post and definitely some food for thought. |  |
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| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:48 - Dec 1 with 1689 views | distortR |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:27 - Dec 1 by paulparker |
Under Warburton we have played 66 games and kept 8 clean sheets
A win ratio of 31%
I would say we are in big trouble this season because he isn’t going to change anything to what he knows |
and he's lost player after player and had to slash the wage bill. The context of his performance has to be considered.
Bristol City spent money and wages he never could on Nakhi wells.
Many managers, given this situation, would be grinding it out with no real view to the future. Warburton tries to get his team playing good football and is prepared to give kids a chance.
i thought last season was a relegation year given the losses to the squad and the £50k he had to spend. He did well.
On to this year. look at the experience and ability we have had to let go again.
yeah, we have spent a bit, but given our wage structure we're not going to get proven, top 6 championship players.
i honestly think the defensive set up is better this season, it's the lapses in concentration that are killing us. I go back to Wallace moving off Godden for Cov's first. It must piss Warburton off as much as it does us. But I don't want to see him slating his players in the press conference, when has that ever worked? | | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:52 - Dec 1 with 1653 views | dannyblue |
Also...the attractive attacking football we play will make our players more valuable when we inevitably lose them | | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:55 - Dec 1 with 1614 views | stevec |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:20 - Dec 1 by Hunterhoop |
It’s been apparent for some while - others have suggested the theory on here before - that BOS and Chair don’t pass to Dykes very often, even when he is clearly the only ball on. They hold on, stop, turn inside, or, in BOS’s case, try to shout from narrow angles.
Generously you could say they don’t get their heads up quicker than this, but I doubt that. Neither Chair nor BOS celebrated with Dykes after his goal against Brentford.
Hope I’m wrong, but having had someone point it out and watched it for a few games now, I think there is an issue there.
It’s utterly childish, if the case, of course. But it should be easy to stamp out with strong leadership... |
Chair and BOS know Dykes won’t make the right run 9 times out of 10. Willock played a dream ball in to him tonight, he simply doesn’t read it.
Warburton has dipped into the £20 mill with two forwards who don’t fit our style and failed to sort out the clear problem of the full backs. Seriously, how difficult is it to find professional full backs from a fraction of the Eze fee?
And that’s 3 losses out of 3 when Cameron is not out there, MW is totally reliant on a bloke who probably expected to retire 18 months ago. |  | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:57 - Dec 1 with 1596 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:55 - Dec 1 by stevec |
Chair and BOS know Dykes won’t make the right run 9 times out of 10. Willock played a dream ball in to him tonight, he simply doesn’t read it.
Warburton has dipped into the £20 mill with two forwards who don’t fit our style and failed to sort out the clear problem of the full backs. Seriously, how difficult is it to find professional full backs from a fraction of the Eze fee?
And that’s 3 losses out of 3 when Cameron is not out there, MW is totally reliant on a bloke who probably expected to retire 18 months ago. |
Chair plays head down and takes too many touches, BoS similar, although both improving with coaching. | | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 23:05 - Dec 1 with 1542 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:44 - Dec 1 by ted_hendrix |
We know a ST holder at Glasgow Rangers, he messaged my lad that whilst at GR the football was in the main pretty good but during certain games when things started going 'tits up' he never seemed to be able to change things accordingly to suit the situation, basically when things started going wrong during the game he was found wanting.
Sound familiar? |
He also got GR a promotion and cup double and got them another cup final, having put Celtic out in the semi.
Let's not try to pretend his time at Rangers was a failure, it wasn't. | | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 23:05 - Dec 1 with 1534 views | Sharpy36 |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:57 - Dec 1 by ParkRoyalR |
Chair plays head down and takes too many touches, BoS similar, although both improving with coaching. |
Couldn`t agree more. This has been pointed out numerous times, and as for Dykes imo he makes fantastic runs along the back line, but because of the previous point looks lacking through no fault of his own. |  |
| 'You didn't know that was wrong, but now you do. If you do it again, I'll know you are doing it on purpose.' |
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| Bristol City Match Fred on 23:06 - Dec 1 with 1535 views | Hunterhoop |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:37 - Dec 1 by Antti_Heinola |
Yeah but who turned Eze into a £20m player?
I am fed up too, but the only time to sack him, imo, is if we are bottom three and drowning and there is little hope. We are not there yet, nor do I expect us to be this season, because we can and do play well.
We've actually been playing well for quite a few games after the Barnsley debacle, got good draws with Watford (where the recent trend of first half/second half was not there, and we finished by far the stronger side), but I absolutely agree there are big problems. I don't really agree with even discussing changing the manager now, though. As I said, unless we are looking in dire danger of going down, I wouldn't even consider it for minimum 18 months, because there are a lot of positives. I know it's irrelevant to a large degree, but first 40 we were brilliant. It was wonderful football. |
Three things Antti.
1) in any walk of life, you don’t wait to be in “dire straits” before making a change. You change to prevent finding yourself in such problems. To wait to be in such a situation is, objectively and all logical reasoning, ludicrous. Unless your purpose is being a 100% justified/correct in making your decision. But that is pride and ego dominating. Better to risk getting a decision wrong (if the risk is relatively low) than wait until the situation demands it. Prevention over treatment.
2) We were excellent but infuriating in the first 40. Wonderful build up play but poor final ball and finishing. Forgive me, but what is the aim in football? Score; don’t concede. Wonderful build up play is a “lovely to have”, it is not a must have. We won very ugly under Warnock in many an occasion, home and away, but we loved it, the fans loved it, the ground was full. Results drive football and a clubs direction, not build up play. The ship is sailing of build up play being relevant to the direction of QPR anymore. It has a shelf life because of its promise of results to come. If sustained results don’t materialise, what are you buying?
3) I’ve been defending the club’s strategy and approach for years, on here, in the ground and in the pub, to anyone that will listen. You know this. But there comes a point where the ship has been righted and you look ahead and say “right, what next? Where are we headed?” No one should want to stand still this season, especially. The league is sh*t. We’ve outplayed for large chunks Watford, Bournemouth, Brentford and Bristol City. Who is there to be scared off? We have Wednesday with a points deduction. We have Forest and Derby in a mess. We have Wycombe, Barnsley, Rotherham, Luton and Coventry in the league. All far lower budgets. It’s the weakest Championship for decades. THE WHOLE POINT of the strategy the last 5 years was to take advantage of when this came to pass because we were ahead of the curve in righting our ship. That doesn’t mean go up straight away, of course not. But we absolutely should be moving in the right direction on the pitch now comparative to everyone else. I’m not sure we are. 17 points from 15 says we’re in for a relegation battle. And I don’t think the fault likes with Hoos, Ferdinand or Ramsey because the recruitment and talent development have largely been good, because we clearly CAN play well and these players don’t look out of their depth. Far from it.
I am far from a reactionary. I’ve backed prudence for the last 5 seasons, but at some point you have to actually seek to progress.
You don’t wait to nailed on for relegation, when you should be improving on last year as the league around you weakens. You act swiftly.
I don’t think the time has come yet, but I don’t think it’s too far away if results and the same issues persist. | | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 23:12 - Dec 1 with 1491 views | Hunterhoop |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:48 - Dec 1 by distortR |
and he's lost player after player and had to slash the wage bill. The context of his performance has to be considered.
Bristol City spent money and wages he never could on Nakhi wells.
Many managers, given this situation, would be grinding it out with no real view to the future. Warburton tries to get his team playing good football and is prepared to give kids a chance.
i thought last season was a relegation year given the losses to the squad and the £50k he had to spend. He did well.
On to this year. look at the experience and ability we have had to let go again.
yeah, we have spent a bit, but given our wage structure we're not going to get proven, top 6 championship players.
i honestly think the defensive set up is better this season, it's the lapses in concentration that are killing us. I go back to Wallace moving off Godden for Cov's first. It must piss Warburton off as much as it does us. But I don't want to see him slating his players in the press conference, when has that ever worked? |
He’s actually seen the lowest wage bill reduction YoY of any manager since Redknapp.
Check the accounts. We don’t yet know the wage bill for last season, but for the season before it was £20m total down from £70m in the Prem (over 4 seasons). Warburton then took over and estimated were rumoured to be we may have squeezed it down to £17m for last season (we’ll find out in April). But yeah, he hasn’t had the wage bill “slashed” at all. He’s also been allowed to actually pay transfer fees for players although I’m sure that was a committee thing. | | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 23:21 - Dec 1 with 1444 views | daveB |
blimey when Hunter is calling for a managerial change things must be bad. don't disagree with some of the points he is making but personally wouldn't be changing the manager at the moment, with games every few days I don't see a new manager making significant improvements given the current circumstances. I would personally give Warburton until the end of the season and then see where we are unless we do fall off a cliff into a relegation battle which is quite possible.
I think we are close to being a good side which is where we have been since we came back down in 2015 but making that step to being a good side seems a big one.
I was hugely frustrated with tonights second half, it was similar to Friday in that we didn't react well to some changes from the opposition, it took us until the last five minutes to try and work the ball wide and create openings that way when the middle third of the pitch was a wall of bodies, wen we did that we almost scored twice but took us far too long to do that. Is that the manager or players or both I really don't know.
For all Warburtons faults if Bright could pick out a cross or finish when clean through we'd have won by a hatful tonight |  | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 23:22 - Dec 1 with 1439 views | CiderwithRsie |
My last words for tonight on Warburton:
As Clive has noted, we don't get perfect players at QPR because if they were perfect they'd be somewhere else. Same goes for managers.
Some people are either forgetting or never got just how little choice we had when it came to appointing Warbs - we'd yet again sacked a manager in-season and McClaren's appointment was the first time we'd made a managerial change at a time of the club's choosing since de Canio got the job. Before Schteve, Holloway was the only bloke who'd touch us with a bargepole because he loves us, for which I'll always be grateful. Even now, after a bit of relative stability, our wages bill is apparently in the bottom 5 for the division. It's not a honeypot here.
Why do people think decent managers - apart from chancers like Redknapp or Hughes - would jump at managing QPR? Sack Warburton before Christmas, a few months after he's achieved our highest league position in 5 seasons, with the whole of the EFL's finances f*cked, and who do you think would want the job? A chancer or a complete gamble, that's who. | | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 23:26 - Dec 1 with 1417 views | ted_hendrix |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 23:05 - Dec 1 by CiderwithRsie |
He also got GR a promotion and cup double and got them another cup final, having put Celtic out in the semi.
Let's not try to pretend his time at Rangers was a failure, it wasn't. |
I'm not trying to pretend his time at GR was a failure hence why I said "whilst at GR the football was in the main pretty good but during certain games when things started going 'tits up' he never seemed to be able to change things accordingly to suit the situation, basically when things started going wrong during the game he was found wanting." | |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Bristol City Match Fred on 23:29 - Dec 1 with 1400 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 23:06 - Dec 1 by Hunterhoop |
Three things Antti.
1) in any walk of life, you don’t wait to be in “dire straits” before making a change. You change to prevent finding yourself in such problems. To wait to be in such a situation is, objectively and all logical reasoning, ludicrous. Unless your purpose is being a 100% justified/correct in making your decision. But that is pride and ego dominating. Better to risk getting a decision wrong (if the risk is relatively low) than wait until the situation demands it. Prevention over treatment.
2) We were excellent but infuriating in the first 40. Wonderful build up play but poor final ball and finishing. Forgive me, but what is the aim in football? Score; don’t concede. Wonderful build up play is a “lovely to have”, it is not a must have. We won very ugly under Warnock in many an occasion, home and away, but we loved it, the fans loved it, the ground was full. Results drive football and a clubs direction, not build up play. The ship is sailing of build up play being relevant to the direction of QPR anymore. It has a shelf life because of its promise of results to come. If sustained results don’t materialise, what are you buying?
3) I’ve been defending the club’s strategy and approach for years, on here, in the ground and in the pub, to anyone that will listen. You know this. But there comes a point where the ship has been righted and you look ahead and say “right, what next? Where are we headed?” No one should want to stand still this season, especially. The league is sh*t. We’ve outplayed for large chunks Watford, Bournemouth, Brentford and Bristol City. Who is there to be scared off? We have Wednesday with a points deduction. We have Forest and Derby in a mess. We have Wycombe, Barnsley, Rotherham, Luton and Coventry in the league. All far lower budgets. It’s the weakest Championship for decades. THE WHOLE POINT of the strategy the last 5 years was to take advantage of when this came to pass because we were ahead of the curve in righting our ship. That doesn’t mean go up straight away, of course not. But we absolutely should be moving in the right direction on the pitch now comparative to everyone else. I’m not sure we are. 17 points from 15 says we’re in for a relegation battle. And I don’t think the fault likes with Hoos, Ferdinand or Ramsey because the recruitment and talent development have largely been good, because we clearly CAN play well and these players don’t look out of their depth. Far from it.
I am far from a reactionary. I’ve backed prudence for the last 5 seasons, but at some point you have to actually seek to progress.
You don’t wait to nailed on for relegation, when you should be improving on last year as the league around you weakens. You act swiftly.
I don’t think the time has come yet, but I don’t think it’s too far away if results and the same issues persist. |
honestly mate, you make loads of good points, i just come down on the other side of the fence to you.
I think you can credit him a lot with Eze. I banged the Eze drum from the first time I saw him play, but Ollie was not great for him, McClaren did ok, but flogged him half to death. He absolutely flourished under Warburton and denying that is bending reality to suit your narrative. Of course Eze thanked his youth coaches - he was on the scrapheap when they picked him up. But it's naive to think Warburton didn;t help take him to another level - look at his goals, his assists last season. One thing he does know about is getting the best out of attacking players. Another manager *may* have got the same out of him. But another manager didn't.
Another point: in my view you change manager when not in dire straits ONLY when you have a very, very good replacement who you know is willing to come and take the job. Klopp taking over from Rodgers at Liverpool the prime example of that and, maybe, Mourinho at Spurs.
I don't really believe there is a genuine, gettable candidate out there who would out-perform Warburton at the moment. One may make us harder to beat at the expense of some excitement, but no manager is going to get this lot promoted. Therefore, it's a moot discussion in my eyes. It's change for change's sake, to slake the thirst of new hope.
I love Warnock, and yes we ground out games, but even games we ground out were done with a forward line of Helguson, Smith, Routledge and bloody Adel Taarabt. Warnock also spent an absolute bomb in this league compared to Warburton and had the best player this league has ever seen. Full credit to him, that means nothing if you can't manage it and he did superbly. But it was lightning in a bottle. For this club in 25 years we've had two years where we've had stellar seasons at this level. And both those seasons had enormous financial backing and outstanding, experienced players for this league.
I'm not defeatist, but it's fantasy to think a new man coming in will deliver anything like that. I think overall Warbs is doing a good job. This isn't the time to discuss yet another change of direction. Cold light of day, he's had less than 18 months, during which he's turned over the squad once, lost his best player in two successive summers, and his top three goalscorers from last season, and he had to deal with Covid just as we were hitting some really fine form, yes, he failed completely to deal with the return until the final few games, and has had a rocky start to this season. But we're not, or shouldn't be, getting the firing squad ready now, or any time in the near future, unless things go really south. Personally, I don't think they will and we'll finish a difficult season between 12th and 18th. | |
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