| When we get the ball, what is our plan? 11:51 - Jan 21 with 4816 views | 1JD |
We cannot pass the ball more than 3 times at any given time, the “football” on the whole this season is absolute rank. I went to Burton and the truth is we played zero football but managed to win the game. This continues game after game.
I am not Holloway out, but my patience is wearing thin.
So I ask the question, what is our game plan?
1) Watching closely yesterday, and most games, none of the centre midfielders are bold enough to demand the ball off our centre backs and instigate play - a huge problem, which means our defenders invariably hoof it. So much for the “midfield three”.
2) The wing backs, Bidwell in particular since he has played the most, never offer an out ball when our defenders have the ball. If he gets it from Robinson, nothing happens, control the ball, and give it to someone else. As a result, we literally have nothing down the left. And with Pavs (when he plays) attacking instincts nullified as a result of nothing being behind him, we also have zero coming front he right.
3) Which means the impetus must come from centre midfield and yet it does not. They do not pass the ball quick enough (Freeman who increasingly hogs it), and rarely have any passing interchange. Not helped by a) zero quality out wide b) no hold up striker and c) and an inability to play a out from the back, where it all begins - both the defenders don’t want to pass short, and the midfielders don’t want it / move into space / demand the ball
It’s time for Holloway to change formation as it is doing more harm than good in my opinion. It is built around our midfield 3, but for me, they have become part of the problem. We badly need a playmaker and a hold up striker and should look to the loan market.
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| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 17:41 - Jan 21 with 4716 views | Boston |
I’d say we passed the ball a lot yesterday, but rarely into space or to a player who wasn’t imimediately shut down by Boro. Also thought we were lop sided and went left with an alarmingly predictable regularity. As for game plan, I’m sad to say it’s survival and may be so for a couple more seasons. | |
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| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 17:51 - Jan 21 with 4699 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 17:41 - Jan 21 by Boston |
I’d say we passed the ball a lot yesterday, but rarely into space or to a player who wasn’t imimediately shut down by Boro. Also thought we were lop sided and went left with an alarmingly predictable regularity. As for game plan, I’m sad to say it’s survival and may be so for a couple more seasons. |
Get Gloria Gaynor in. She’s a specialist in that regard. |  | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 19:49 - Jan 21 with 4589 views | QPR_John |
| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 17:41 - Jan 21 by Boston |
I’d say we passed the ball a lot yesterday, but rarely into space or to a player who wasn’t imimediately shut down by Boro. Also thought we were lop sided and went left with an alarmingly predictable regularity. As for game plan, I’m sad to say it’s survival and may be so for a couple more seasons. |
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| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 19:52 - Jan 21 with 4581 views | QPR_John |
| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 17:41 - Jan 21 by Boston |
I’d say we passed the ball a lot yesterday, but rarely into space or to a player who wasn’t imimediately shut down by Boro. Also thought we were lop sided and went left with an alarmingly predictable regularity. As for game plan, I’m sad to say it’s survival and may be so for a couple more seasons. |
If the other players moved then they might not be shut down by the opposition and the player with the ball might have options. All to often the team is static. [Post edited 21 Jan 2018 19:53]
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| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 19:58 - Jan 21 with 4574 views | bosh67 |
But apart from that 1JD what do you think of the system? I agree with most of that. Bidwell does his best but he's a full back not a wingback. We have nothing coming in from the left unless it is Bright and he got stuck on the right. We know Pav can get to the byline and cut the ball back so let's not do that. The central 3 has been an issue for a while now unless we are playing so called lesser teams. Freeman, Luongo and Scowen are all good but the system simply doesn't work... enough times. The system is inflexible and it will only be when we go to 4-4-2 in my humble opinion, with a left footed winger on the left and a right footed winger on the right cutting the ball back to two strikers supported by 2 central midfielders that we will score goals and still have shape to defend counter attacks. Man City we aint so time to drop the wingback bolloc*s. |  |
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| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 20:05 - Jan 21 with 4563 views | stevec |
I like Bidwell and want him to do well, but a wing back?
Whether you're a 5 year old or 45 year old, put a ball at their feet with 30 yards of space in front and the natural human instinct is to kick the fckin thing and run after it. Not Bidwell.
Sure Boro have a team of names at this level but from the first 5 minutes it was clear they had come with a plan and played to it for the duration. Far too many of our players look like they haven't got a clue how to play their role, seems a lot of bickering at any info shouted from the bench too lately. |  | | |
| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 23:01 - Jan 21 with 4458 views | 1JD |
| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 19:58 - Jan 21 by bosh67 |
But apart from that 1JD what do you think of the system? I agree with most of that. Bidwell does his best but he's a full back not a wingback. We have nothing coming in from the left unless it is Bright and he got stuck on the right. We know Pav can get to the byline and cut the ball back so let's not do that. The central 3 has been an issue for a while now unless we are playing so called lesser teams. Freeman, Luongo and Scowen are all good but the system simply doesn't work... enough times. The system is inflexible and it will only be when we go to 4-4-2 in my humble opinion, with a left footed winger on the left and a right footed winger on the right cutting the ball back to two strikers supported by 2 central midfielders that we will score goals and still have shape to defend counter attacks. Man City we aint so time to drop the wingback bolloc*s. |
Bosh, I have thought many times about what system would could deploy to get the best use of the players we have at our disposal. Each time I end up with a 4-2-3-1, or a 4-3-3 - both of which would be a 4-5-1 out of possession, but herein highlights the obvious problem for me, and I suspect Holloway - who is the formation-dependent number 9 up top? That person must be capable of holding the ball and bringing others into play, and we simply have no option there. Sylla would be the closest bet.
We have several players capable of fitting into the above 2 systems, but the lone/focal striker problem presents a real problem to execute it. Which to me, brings us back to basics - use a 4-4-2 as you suggest.
There we can have 2 up top and hope the combination and balance of whoever plays there works, whilst also having 2 wide players and attacking outlets at the same time. So, I’d go with Freeman left midfield- not the most pacy but needn’t be when you have his trickery and good delivery. Wszolek back in his natural position right midfield, who I think would excel again. Scowen and Loungo in the centre. And any two of the options we have up top, whoever works best as a combination. I don’t buy the fact that we can’t play “only 2 in the centre as we are too open” . This is Holloway’s go-to quote for why he keeps three, given the free reign of teams down the middle park of last season. But there is one major difference, we have Scowen, who plugged a large hole in our team this season. | | | |
| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 23:03 - Jan 21 with 4456 views | oldmisery |
| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 20:05 - Jan 21 by stevec |
I like Bidwell and want him to do well, but a wing back?
Whether you're a 5 year old or 45 year old, put a ball at their feet with 30 yards of space in front and the natural human instinct is to kick the fckin thing and run after it. Not Bidwell.
Sure Boro have a team of names at this level but from the first 5 minutes it was clear they had come with a plan and played to it for the duration. Far too many of our players look like they haven't got a clue how to play their role, seems a lot of bickering at any info shouted from the bench too lately. |
As I've previously said, Bidwell is an average full back but a poor wingback.
Yesterday I decided to be more rational and less emotional about his performance/abilities. As a result I properly noticed for the first time that, on receiving the ball (usually from either Lynch, Robinson or Scowen) he immediately passed the ball back to the same player. That's OK if he was doing so because of being instantly challenged by the opposition but he continuously did it, almost as a reflex action.
It made me think that he was taking the easiest course of action because he has no natural instinct/confidence in his ability to start an attack by running with the ball. Surely the Manager and Coaches must see this both in training and in a game situation so why oh why is he picked as a wingback every single week? | | | |
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| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 23:19 - Jan 21 with 4439 views | WestbourneR |
It's been like this for a very long time. Even against Sheff Utd & Wolves when we won the possession football was poor. I said it at the time and was told I was being ridiculous.
The formation, tactics, pattern play and passing & move are all horrible. The defending poor too.
All we have is work-rate. Work rate is great - the players are sweating blood - but honestly is unsustainable over a whole season to rely on running around like nutters. You've got to use the ball well. |  |
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| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 00:40 - Jan 22 with 4399 views | LythamR |
| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 19:58 - Jan 21 by bosh67 |
But apart from that 1JD what do you think of the system? I agree with most of that. Bidwell does his best but he's a full back not a wingback. We have nothing coming in from the left unless it is Bright and he got stuck on the right. We know Pav can get to the byline and cut the ball back so let's not do that. The central 3 has been an issue for a while now unless we are playing so called lesser teams. Freeman, Luongo and Scowen are all good but the system simply doesn't work... enough times. The system is inflexible and it will only be when we go to 4-4-2 in my humble opinion, with a left footed winger on the left and a right footed winger on the right cutting the ball back to two strikers supported by 2 central midfielders that we will score goals and still have shape to defend counter attacks. Man City we aint so time to drop the wingback bolloc*s. |
central three is a real problem for me as well, it restricts us from playing some of our better players in effective positions and is far too toothless going forward to justify itself and defensively we still concede at least one goal in almost every game so not working on that level either
my tactically obvious but brilliant solution is to play 442 and get pawel and freeman down the lines more often to get crosses in, you get to the line often enough and you score goals |  | | |
| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 05:58 - Jan 22 with 4338 views | LadbrokeR |
The title of your post is the the one of the primary functions of a manager. | | | |
| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 06:27 - Jan 22 with 4327 views | Lblock |
OP a bit over dramatic- have a gander at Luke Freeman, plus as pointed out we can pass the ball to death but it’s always back or sideways
The team set up is awful
Any attacking intent is completely stifled by a our complete lack of width and pace
The fun boy three in midfield seem to be under instructions for all three to sit deep. I remain frustrated with Luongo who only really has a good game once in every three, usually against the rare inferior opposition
The squad remains bloated and weak but I still cannot get Ollies perseverance with this style of play. For me Pav has to start and have insurance of Furlong behind him, the way we played at Reading away last year. We do not have strikers who can be a focal point but in Cilla and Smith we have ones who love crosses.
Five or six wins needed. I’m still not confident but as yet not shrieking like a twelve year old girl. It seems preseason won’t start in February this year....... |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 07:40 - Jan 22 with 4277 views | davman |
On the OPs three points:
1. Scowen, more often than not, makes himself available to receive the ball in front of the CBs. but the problem is further in front of him. His 'out ball' always seems to be wide, but, aside from Furlong a couple of times in the last couple of weeks, they don't seem to be far enough forward to make that count, so its back to a CB, who in the case of Lynch, thinks he can be a Quarter Back (1 in every 10 passes may come off) and Ned, who is a true defender with limited passing ability. So we end up playing it long with an inevitable result. Robinson appears to have something on the ball, but not much. Luongo comes for the ball, but when he receives it back to goal in the middle third of the pitch, he never seems to turn and go the other way. He is MUCH better at that in the final third though. Freeman does try and make things happen, but he was tied up well on Saturday.
2. Wing Backs - should be Robinson and Furlong and that should have been the case from day 1. They are much more athletic than most of the other choices and imo would be perfect for Wing Back roles. As others have said, Bidwell is an average full back, but a poor wing back. Pav has all the energy in the world, but is not a natural defender and Olly is going through a phase of not seeming to favour a good player inexplicably (for other examples see Gino Padula, Idrissa Sylla and now Pav). Cousins is not a wide player let alone a wing back, but no doubt he'll be back there next week. As these are the players Ollie is relying on for width, it is a big reason why its not working...
3. Yep. A 4-3-3 like the second half enables proper wingers to play as wingers, but then he plays that one of them is Washington, who is not a proper winger. I find that amazing seeing as we have stockpiled all the wingers in the world...
...but luckily, there are worse teams in this league, which is why we should be able to pick up the 6 wins or so we need before the end of the season... |  |
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| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 13:08 - Jan 22 with 4150 views | ridethewave |
| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 07:40 - Jan 22 by davman |
On the OPs three points:
1. Scowen, more often than not, makes himself available to receive the ball in front of the CBs. but the problem is further in front of him. His 'out ball' always seems to be wide, but, aside from Furlong a couple of times in the last couple of weeks, they don't seem to be far enough forward to make that count, so its back to a CB, who in the case of Lynch, thinks he can be a Quarter Back (1 in every 10 passes may come off) and Ned, who is a true defender with limited passing ability. So we end up playing it long with an inevitable result. Robinson appears to have something on the ball, but not much. Luongo comes for the ball, but when he receives it back to goal in the middle third of the pitch, he never seems to turn and go the other way. He is MUCH better at that in the final third though. Freeman does try and make things happen, but he was tied up well on Saturday.
2. Wing Backs - should be Robinson and Furlong and that should have been the case from day 1. They are much more athletic than most of the other choices and imo would be perfect for Wing Back roles. As others have said, Bidwell is an average full back, but a poor wing back. Pav has all the energy in the world, but is not a natural defender and Olly is going through a phase of not seeming to favour a good player inexplicably (for other examples see Gino Padula, Idrissa Sylla and now Pav). Cousins is not a wide player let alone a wing back, but no doubt he'll be back there next week. As these are the players Ollie is relying on for width, it is a big reason why its not working...
3. Yep. A 4-3-3 like the second half enables proper wingers to play as wingers, but then he plays that one of them is Washington, who is not a proper winger. I find that amazing seeing as we have stockpiled all the wingers in the world...
...but luckily, there are worse teams in this league, which is why we should be able to pick up the 6 wins or so we need before the end of the season... |
"Wing Backs - should be Robinson and Furlong"
No, it shouldn't!
Robinson is easily our best CB and you want to move him out of that position? I despair.
As for him being a wing-back, based on what? He's not quick enough, and pace is an absolute necessity in a wing-back. |  | | |
| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 13:36 - Jan 22 with 4129 views | headhoops |
| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 07:40 - Jan 22 by davman |
On the OPs three points:
1. Scowen, more often than not, makes himself available to receive the ball in front of the CBs. but the problem is further in front of him. His 'out ball' always seems to be wide, but, aside from Furlong a couple of times in the last couple of weeks, they don't seem to be far enough forward to make that count, so its back to a CB, who in the case of Lynch, thinks he can be a Quarter Back (1 in every 10 passes may come off) and Ned, who is a true defender with limited passing ability. So we end up playing it long with an inevitable result. Robinson appears to have something on the ball, but not much. Luongo comes for the ball, but when he receives it back to goal in the middle third of the pitch, he never seems to turn and go the other way. He is MUCH better at that in the final third though. Freeman does try and make things happen, but he was tied up well on Saturday.
2. Wing Backs - should be Robinson and Furlong and that should have been the case from day 1. They are much more athletic than most of the other choices and imo would be perfect for Wing Back roles. As others have said, Bidwell is an average full back, but a poor wing back. Pav has all the energy in the world, but is not a natural defender and Olly is going through a phase of not seeming to favour a good player inexplicably (for other examples see Gino Padula, Idrissa Sylla and now Pav). Cousins is not a wide player let alone a wing back, but no doubt he'll be back there next week. As these are the players Ollie is relying on for width, it is a big reason why its not working...
3. Yep. A 4-3-3 like the second half enables proper wingers to play as wingers, but then he plays that one of them is Washington, who is not a proper winger. I find that amazing seeing as we have stockpiled all the wingers in the world...
...but luckily, there are worse teams in this league, which is why we should be able to pick up the 6 wins or so we need before the end of the season... |
There are worse teams in this league and we will get another 18-20 points. Robinson has turned into a POS contender at centre back - dont move him.
5-3-2 just isnt working - we don't have the players for it and it always means that when your midfield get the ball they will have 4 players at most in front of them with little option other than to play it back or sideways.
To paraphrase one manager
from now on QPR will be playing 4, 3, fuc£ing 3. |  |
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| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 14:27 - Jan 22 with 4085 views | R_from_afar |
I don't see how changing the formation suddenly makes players more creative or better able to pass the ball.
The point about players being static is a good one. We need to see some movement. If we have the ball, players ahead of the ball should be moving away from their markers, not sticking to them.
We do need to work at using the full width of the pitch but that does not equate to simply playing wingers. We need to coach the players to feel comfortable getting out wide. In the course of the game, any outfield player could end up with an opportunity to attack up the wing. One positive for me is that Furlong looks comfortable down the flanks.
In the final analysis, though, I think we simply lack creativity. We have a squad full of triers but only Freeman and Pav have a proven ability to consistently open teams up.
RFA |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 15:22 - Jan 22 with 4046 views | PinnerPaul |
Score - I should think | | | |
| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 15:43 - Jan 22 with 4029 views | BklynRanger |
Money aside I feel a bit sorry for Bidwell. He doesn't want to be leading the charge forward on the left, it's not his game at all. On Saturday Shotton looked extremely quick to my boozed-up eyes so Bids was even less inclined to run at him and risk having that whole flank opened up. Anyway, I'm not sure a lot of this hitting it from back to front stupidly early would change regardless of formation. |  | | |
| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 16:38 - Jan 22 with 4005 views | Antti_Heinola |
Good OP.
I think we should try a 4-2-3-1 as we did in the second half. We'd still have defensive solidity, but we'd add width. I'd go with, assuming Hally is injured:
Smithies
Furlong Onuoha Robbo Bidwell
Scowen Luongo
Pav Freeman BOS
Sylla/Smith |  |
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| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 18:34 - Jan 22 with 3945 views | davman |
| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 13:08 - Jan 22 by ridethewave |
"Wing Backs - should be Robinson and Furlong"
No, it shouldn't!
Robinson is easily our best CB and you want to move him out of that position? I despair.
As for him being a wing-back, based on what? He's not quick enough, and pace is an absolute necessity in a wing-back. |
Blimey - you despair at that! Wow, I wonder what you'd be like with my other crap opinions! 
Agree that he has been a revelation at CB, but he is a better option that Bidwell at wing back, so if we have to play with wing backs, surely he's an option?
Even if we go 4-3-3, I still prefer him at LB to Bidwell and feel than Onouha and Baptiste would be good enough at CB although both would want to play RCB... | |
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| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 18:46 - Jan 22 with 3933 views | BostonR |
We should go hoofball and 4-4-2 (start Smith) for the rest of the season. Essentially, it is IH preferred style. That way he stops tinkering and everyone knows their jobs - just fecking launch it towards Smith and see what happens! |  | | |
| When we get the ball, what is our plan? on 18:52 - Jan 22 with 3925 views | TacticalR |
switchingcode said Bidwell used to put in good crosses at Brentford:
Brentford by Stanisgod 14 Apr 2017 17:05Scoring for fun again. How is it no matter how many players they shed they seem to still be able to share goals all around the team , and find replacements.
Hate to say it but fair play to them and on current form I fear for the upcoming game.
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