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Just a thought on this subject which is all over the news saying we are a disgrace and should do more to help -
Oxford English Dictionary definition of Refugee - "A person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster". So when a person flees their country for those reasons they are a refugee (and that is of course a terrible thing to happen to anyone and is yet another sad fact about humanity as a species). However, it could (and should) then be implied that once a 'refugee' passes through a 'safe' country then (s)he is no longer a refugee but a migrant, and most likely a migrant for economic reasons. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but all this rhetoric about taking in 'refugees' is completely misguided or a (deliberate?) misinterpretation of the facts IMO. If people wish to show their support for accommodating these people then that is of course their prerogative, but they should at least be clear that that they support accommodating 'economic migrants' as opposed to 'refugees' (although that would be far less sensationalist and may not suit their agenda).
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Migrant/Refugee crisis on 18:47 - Sep 5 with 3481 views
I notice nothing was said after the Hungarian Prime Minister stated they do not want muslims in their country. If Nigel had suggested such a thing, there be meltdown
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Migrant/Refugee crisis on 19:03 - Sep 5 with 3437 views
The idea that this is a question of legal semantics and that in some way there's a difference between a refugee and an economic migrant fails to provide any actual solutions. These people will lose all identity to get to the UK, they are melting their finger prints off. What is known is that the top 20 commanders of Isis had been held in Guantanamo. Their brutality is obviously the force that drives any Syrian who can to leave their country, the obvious destination to secure their Human Rights would be one of the mature liberal democracies of the Northern European group, limited to, Britain ( possibly only England really) Sweden, Denmark, Germany. Thats what Google and our pontificating politicians tell them. Cameron and Blair explain we protect peoples rights, we defend our nation, and we are all free. These people are part of our everyday lives, the motor car manufacturers of Germany are mostly staffed on the shop floor by economic migrants, modern liberal societies don't have enough children to provide the workers to sustain the relentless growth we apparently need. In a similar way the greatest holding of capital in the UK is by companies who cannot find the skilled employees provided by our shxte education system. Our service industries are filled with economic migrants from the EEC whilst our indebted post graduate students are working in Charity, Utility and Broadband call centres. This combined with a blanket provision of the EEC's Human Rights Act offers a kind of nania to any smart phone owning person in Nigeria, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, Morocco, Algeria, Eritrea, Somalia, Pakistan. These countries provide around 60 million dispossessed people, homeless and economically unproductive. This is Britains problem, and it should be solved at source. All of these countries have exported labour to Britain over the years much of it an unknown amount of people. We lost control of our borders many moons ago, the results of our geo-political, economic and military actions where always coming home to roost, our political rulers chose to ignore what was inevitable, it was just a question of when. Its irrelevant whether they are economic migrants or refugees, they are all people trying to find safer, better lives, many of their families will already be here. The solution lies in making their countries safer, it relies on placing the frontiers back into the tribal and religious positions their peoples need to make them secure. We have an organisation designed after the Second World War to manage displaced peoples...The United Nations. The problem is the organisations that should be running our world are living in the early 20th century. The issues which we face today are the result of the actions of Blair and Cameron in the last 25 years.
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Migrant/Refugee crisis on 21:10 - Sep 5 with 3269 views
Migrant/Refugee crisis on 17:27 - Sep 5 by DeepcutHoop
Perfectly relaxed. Hence the attempt at a joke of sorts.
Sick of the nasty edge to these discussions on the other place, shame that it doesn't seem to be any different in here at the moment.
Difference is it's unusual on here, rather the inevitable end result of any off-topic thread over there
I'm a leftie grew up opposite Loftus Road, in the 80's one of a handful of white families on the street growing up. World didn't end, had all sorts of nationalities and a real sense of community - wouldn't have swopped it for anything.
But the wife def not a leftie. Works as a nurse in NHS and has seen all sorts and formed opinions as a result. She couldn't sleep the other day after seeing some of the footage . So don't kid yourself that the only people who give a sh"t are wearing sandals made of lentils. Plenty of people out there driven as much by basic compassion as politics or economics.
If not actually disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled. PG Wodehouse
Call me cold hearted but I don't find that moving at all. I honestly believe that the Germans are demonstrating the last vestiges of some sort of collective National post WW2 guilt trip. I know that this is widely stated to be the biggest refugee crisis since the end of the Second World War but these refugees/immigrants are a very, very different kettle of fish compared to those after WW2. I know some of them have had a terrible time but lots haven't and are moving for purely economic reasons.
If you want to listen to something truly heart rending then I strongly suggest you listen to accounts of refugee children at the end of the WW2 - 'Lost children of the Holocaust' a recent broadcast on Radio 4. It's still available to listen to on BBC Iplayer and is well worth taking the time to listen to. It made me cry and I don't cry easily.
Migrant/Refugee crisis on 22:43 - Sep 5 by BromleyHoop
Call me cold hearted but I don't find that moving at all. I honestly believe that the Germans are demonstrating the last vestiges of some sort of collective National post WW2 guilt trip. I know that this is widely stated to be the biggest refugee crisis since the end of the Second World War but these refugees/immigrants are a very, very different kettle of fish compared to those after WW2. I know some of them have had a terrible time but lots haven't and are moving for purely economic reasons.
If you want to listen to something truly heart rending then I strongly suggest you listen to accounts of refugee children at the end of the WW2 - 'Lost children of the Holocaust' a recent broadcast on Radio 4. It's still available to listen to on BBC Iplayer and is well worth taking the time to listen to. It made me cry and I don't cry easily.
[Post edited 5 Sep 2015 22:46]
I strongly suggest you listen to accounts of refugee children at the end of the WW2 - 'Lost children of the Holocaust' a recent broadcast on Radio 4. It's still available to listen to on BBC Iplayer
Excellent programme, I listened when first broadcast. Recommended whatever your views of current events. Worth putting yourself in the position of either the "children" interviewed (now of course old people) or their parents, especially if you are a parent yourself.
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Migrant/Refugee crisis on 23:51 - Sep 5 with 2997 views
P. S. the statement that current refugees are a very different kettle of fish is pretty contentious. Any reading of events in Syria does not reveal any significant difference between ISIS and the Nazis to me.
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Migrant/Refugee crisis on 23:58 - Sep 5 with 2988 views
They are refugees up to the point they find safe haven in a neighbouring country then they become Economic Migrants when the set off in a rubber dinghy in the search of a better standard of life. Someone tell the BBC cos all of a sudden the "swarm of migrants" have become the "poor refugees"
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Migrant/Refugee crisis on 00:38 - Sep 6 with 2950 views
Migrant/Refugee crisis on 23:51 - Sep 5 by CiderwithRsie
P. S. the statement that current refugees are a very different kettle of fish is pretty contentious. Any reading of events in Syria does not reveal any significant difference between ISIS and the Nazis to me.
I'm afraid you're forgetting all those migrants from countries like Pakistan or West African countries where ISIS, or a local version of them, are not operating. They have a completely different back story to Syrian or Iraqi refugees/migrants.
Sometimes being a bleeding heart Guardian-reading QPR fan ain`t easy. At the last count there was me, Robert Elms and about two of you, like Cider with Rosie. Oh, and the chap who does that wonderful This is My England site. Anyone else out there? We`re clearly outnumbered even here - never mind on the We Are the BNP Boys site.
[Post edited 6 Sep 2015 1:11]
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Migrant/Refugee crisis on 01:01 - Sep 6 with 2920 views
Migrant/Refugee crisis on 00:38 - Sep 6 by BromleyHoop
I'm afraid you're forgetting all those migrants from countries like Pakistan or West African countries where ISIS, or a local version of them, are not operating. They have a completely different back story to Syrian or Iraqi refugees/migrants.
No, I'm not. The thread is about a migrant/refugee crisis. Of course that covers a range of categories. But the current crisis that is being reported on is very much about an influx into Hungary via Serbia, Greece and Macedonia from Turkey and originating in Syria and Iraq.
Furthermore Pakistan has the Pakistani Taliban who wanted to kill Disco's friend Malalla and West Africa has those nice people Boko Haram who are still holding hundreds of teenage girls captive. Any difference between them and ISIS (Boko Haram at last are formally aligned with ISIS) is superficial. I could add Libya and Somalia to that list.
My daughter is 14. If I was either Pakistani or Nigerian or Malian that could be her, let alone if I were Syrian or Iraqi.
THere are millions of real people just like you and me who are genuinely at risk of murder, rape, torture and slavery. This is real. It is right now. It is as bad as Nazism.
I don't have the answer. I won't try to pretend there is an easy solution or try to grab the moral high ground - I've been on this site long enough to assume that everyone here is a half-way decent individual. But don't kid yourself that people are not going to be killed in large numbers if they can't get out of those places. It is happening right now while you and I are throwing posts around. I'm just grateful that we can have different opinions without either of us wanting to kill the other for it.
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Migrant/Refugee crisis on 01:11 - Sep 6 with 2909 views
Migrant/Refugee crisis on 00:57 - Sep 6 by Hadders
Sometimes being a bleeding heart Guardian-reading QPR fan ain`t easy. At the last count there was me, Robert Elms and about two of you, like Cider with Rosie. Oh, and the chap who does that wonderful This is My England site. Anyone else out there? We`re clearly outnumbered even here - never mind on the We Are the BNP Boys site.
[Post edited 6 Sep 2015 1:11]
I would consider myself that way inclined, but my long rambling posts are behind me.
I just add superficial stuff now.
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Migrant/Refugee crisis on 01:30 - Sep 6 with 2896 views
We should form a Guardian R`s Support Group, Bazza. Can`t decide whether to invite Konk- we need anyone we can find and he seems pretty liberal, but he`s a Tarquin.
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Migrant/Refugee crisis on 02:37 - Sep 6 with 2862 views
Wars and Refugees, we havnt moved on much in the last 70 years as a species have we. The Middle East is a mess due to western governments thirst for oil. Phoney wars killing innocents on all sides. Oil and Munitions companies making billions. Putin backs one side, Obama the other. The Truth, buried years ago. Bush and Blair, ever held accountable, hell no. Jo Average worried about who the new neighbours might be. Really. They might just be vulnerable human beings looking for some help.
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Migrant/Refugee crisis on 07:15 - Sep 6 with 2808 views
Has any one got a quote from LFW Staple go to man, Voltaire, to bring the myriad strands of opinion together into sharp focus .
I see The BNP, The Nazis and even a breathless young Furher have been resurrected on this thread , is there any room for David Icke as well?, And no mention of Kayne west and his plight at the hands of the white devil..tut tut.
Damn shame really.. A natty reference from Sartre or Focault on a yellow post it note , really makes all the difference when dealing with my cnt bursting case load from overseas in the probation service.
i really should think of having stevie wonder and paul mcartney's ' ebony and ivory' piped into the office to assuage any tensions between the dozens of different factions that live together so harmoniously in east london, when their not trying to kill each other with half bricks, that is.
Please Mr Cameron, if we are to accept 15,000 peoples from Syria, as i hear today on sky news , can you please direct them to east london, where the abundance of wealth , spare capacity housing , school places really is an embarassment and peace between communities is at an all time high . with love knowing no bounds . Like woodstock you might say.
were flowing together like water here cameron, Pop down for a refreshing drink of islington dinner party H2O , In a carafe of course.
please invite let Emma Thompson to downing street and award her with a purple heart for her stance on this Issue , I really dont know how we could have managed without her sage advice . Perhaps A Poem That could provide some form of framework, a tesseract if you will, on racial harmony within the walls of the gascoigne estate, Barking.
[Post edited 6 Sep 2015 9:38]
".... You are the... Duke of New York... You're A-Number One!".
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Migrant/Refugee crisis on 09:26 - Sep 6 with 2677 views
Just seen the posted you tube clip and am wondering why all these fit looking young men aren't fighting for their country. Apparently we are now looking at bombing so our pilots risk their lives for these people and how long before our troops end up maimed and dying for these ungrateful sods.
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Migrant/Refugee crisis on 09:51 - Sep 6 with 2632 views
Just seen the posted you tube clip and am wondering why all these fit looking young men aren't fighting for their country. Apparently we are now looking at bombing so our pilots risk their lives for these people and how long before our troops end up maimed and dying for these ungrateful sods.
we aint got much of army left mate due to cuts ,you'll find quite a few ex army homeless on the streets still they don't seem to matter ,15,000 Migrant/Refugee lets say 5 to a family that's 3000 homes required from councils who already have waiting lists in the tens of thousands
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