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The problem with BLM and it shows in this thread, full 6 pages, that it is a movement but it's the wrong kind.
It is mainly middle class white people who believe in the b0llocks that is critical race theory.
BLM has become/is a fascist movement. It had created an us and them mentality which is the exact opposite to what we really need to stop racism. Its a shame that if anyone thinks this they will be shot down as racist. Maybe the working class just understand that not making a big deal of the colour of someone's skin may actually stop all this nonsense 🤷🤷
1984 that was and Chelsea took the p*** all day at Highbury.
Take a look at the footage on You Tube at how many they had in the ground (easily 20k+) and, though not questioning your experience, have never read anything in any Arsenal account which contradicts the opinion that Chelsea ran riot that day and faced no/little resistance.
Slightly older now but was regularly attending matches from the early 1980s and know/knew almost every significant face from that period to the extent that most came to my parents wedding and the Old Bill even popped by to say hello...
These come from good sources if I didn't personally witness them..
Sightly older sure, 10 months older so not really significant. Thats why I am surprised you can remember so much from a time you'd have been a child. Maybe its just my memory that doesnt work like that.
Maybe I saw things a little differently as I was at the game and that certainly was 'nt what I witnessed as I spent an hour after the game trying to navigate my way to H+I station, bumped into DH after the game as it happens, if it's one and the same DH who used to come to Rangers.
Chelsea rolled around before the game as if they were at Loftus Road but just as at Latimer Road, Arsenal (plus half of North London) were formidable in the early 80's and did to them what West Ham and Millwall always did with lesser numbers.
Anyway I hope poster feels at least a small amount of regret or embarrassment for using those dreadful words in the same sentence as Cyril Regis, someone who achieved more in his short life than most of us could only dream about.
Maybe I saw things a little differently as I was at the game and that certainly was 'nt what I witnessed as I spent an hour after the game trying to navigate my way to H+I station, bumped into DH after the game as it happens, if it's one and the same DH who used to come to Rangers.
Chelsea rolled around before the game as if they were at Loftus Road but just as at Latimer Road, Arsenal (plus half of North London) were formidable in the early 80's and did to them what West Ham and Millwall always did with lesser numbers.
Anyway I hope poster feels at least a small amount of regret or embarrassment for using those dreadful words in the same sentence as Cyril Regis, someone who achieved more in his short life than most of us could only dream about.
No regret at all, people used to laugh at stuff like that then.
You'll have to ask a lot of fans from that period if they are ashamed that they waved cash at in areas affected by the miners strike during the height of the industrial action.
Whether they are ashamed they sang 'Spurs are on their way to Autchwitz' at Wembley in 1982.
Whether they're ashamed to have sung Munich songs.
Whether they're ashamed to have song songs mocking the Scousers for being unemployed.
Whether they feel ashamed to have mocked Matthew Harding with songs.
The list goes on.
People in those days had a sense of humour about different things and it was all tounge in cheek.
One can't help but think that the snowflake generation and the middle class who discovered football in the 1990s are the ones who get it wrong because they take offence on behalf of everyone even when their sympathy is not wanted or requested.
No regret at all, people used to laugh at stuff like that then.
You'll have to ask a lot of fans from that period if they are ashamed that they waved cash at in areas affected by the miners strike during the height of the industrial action.
Whether they are ashamed they sang 'Spurs are on their way to Autchwitz' at Wembley in 1982.
Whether they're ashamed to have sung Munich songs.
Whether they're ashamed to have song songs mocking the Scousers for being unemployed.
Whether they feel ashamed to have mocked Matthew Harding with songs.
The list goes on.
People in those days had a sense of humour about different things and it was all tounge in cheek.
One can't help but think that the snowflake generation and the middle class who discovered football in the 1990s are the ones who get it wrong because they take offence on behalf of everyone even when their sympathy is not wanted or requested.
You'll have to ask Les next time you see him at Rangers how much he would have laughed being called a BC when playing at the Rugby Club or coming up through the non league ranks - I hope you share the same sense of humour or it might be a short conversation.
I think you'll find its not just the Nick Hornby or snowflake generation who take offence to your 'sense of humour'.
No regret at all, people used to laugh at stuff like that then.
You'll have to ask a lot of fans from that period if they are ashamed that they waved cash at in areas affected by the miners strike during the height of the industrial action.
Whether they are ashamed they sang 'Spurs are on their way to Autchwitz' at Wembley in 1982.
Whether they're ashamed to have sung Munich songs.
Whether they're ashamed to have song songs mocking the Scousers for being unemployed.
Whether they feel ashamed to have mocked Matthew Harding with songs.
The list goes on.
People in those days had a sense of humour about different things and it was all tounge in cheek.
One can't help but think that the snowflake generation and the middle class who discovered football in the 1990s are the ones who get it wrong because they take offence on behalf of everyone even when their sympathy is not wanted or requested.
I joined in with some of those chants when young and frankly find it a bit embarrassing now. I do regret it.
Different times for sure, doesn't make it right though. We're supposed to learn from mistakes. I'm sure if you were one of the unemployed etc being mocked, you'd have laughed it off as banter. "Paki bashing" was also a thing in the early 80s, maybe that should be revived too? The good old days.
Still just carry on calling everyone that disagrees with you a snowflake and copying what other people post online, how imaginative.
One of the greatest firms ever assembled outside an England match.
Ridiculously in size and capability.
You sound like you’re narrating a programme about the Roman army or the Mongols, on the History channel. Were they led into battle by Alexander the Great? Having listened to enough self-proclaimed ‘lads’ embellishing events over the years, I’m always very wary of taking anything any of them say at face value. 30 blokes bouncing up and down with a couple of karate kicks from opposite sides of the street, and someone putting a window through on the walk back to Stockport station gets retold as a six hour, 500 man brawl with one of the locals pulling out a bazooka in a pub. ‘Chaps’ at the football are probably the least reliable narrators on the planet. Uncle Alberts.
None of their stories ever involve starting on people minding their own business, bricking supporters club coaches full of old folk, kids and trainspotters, racially abusing staff/passengers on trains etc, smashing-up small businesses (pubs), and yet I’ve probably seen more of that from ‘lads’ over the years that I have epic, heroic tear-ups in the station forecourt at Wigan Wallgate or outside the away end at Saltergate.
I’m probably about five years older than you, and was taken to the football every week from the age of three-four. Once we got to secondary school, I would go to any midweek games on in London with mates from school. A couple of years older, and I was allowed to away games outside of London without my Dad if going with my eldest brother or older kids from round our way, so would clock up new grounds by going away with Tottenham family/friends and to the odd Arsenal game; so I went to a lot of football in the 80’s, and it means a lot to me as it’s when I really fell in love with the game, started standing away from my Dad with the singers, going away, making mates at the football etc. So there’s huge nostalgia for me, but I also remember the complete wear-out of trying not to get a kicking at a lot of away games, a lot of mates getting a hiding when they were just minding their own business, open racism, and mates from school who loved football not ever being allowed to go to games because their parents didn’t want them getting caught-up in trouble. I’ve worked with Asian blokes who grew-up round the corner from Molineux and Filbert Street, who love football, but never went to watch their local team because it was considered too dangerous for them as Asians. Turning on the telly and seeing what England/English club fans had got up to on the continent during the 80’s - mid 90’s was a source of national embarrassment for most of us - I’m not a fan of face paint and jesters hats, but I’d take that over smashing-up Luxembourg City FFS.
As for the songs you listed - i’ve sung a few of them, not to mention a few about Elton John, and yes, I’m absolutely embarrassed to have done so. But I’m not fourteen anymore. I’ve grown-up and society’s progressed. And I’ve met/known more than a few Northerners and Midlanders over the years who didn’t find songs about signing-on, going through bins for food etc megalolz bantz, and they aren’t/weren’t the type that i would put in the snowflake bracket.
If a day at the football was so great in the eighties, then why were most grounds empty most of the time, when it cost buttons and you could get into almost any game on the gate? I hate what football has become, but an awful lot of working class people had given up on it in the 80’s because spending an afternoon with all the bol locks that you often couldn’t avoid back then, wasn’t their idea of a good day out. Especially not with kids. It wasn’t SKY TV, ticket prices or wa nky kick-off times that drove them away, it was the kno bhead fans.
You sound like you’re narrating a programme about the Roman army or the Mongols, on the History channel. Were they led into battle by Alexander the Great? Having listened to enough self-proclaimed ‘lads’ embellishing events over the years, I’m always very wary of taking anything any of them say at face value. 30 blokes bouncing up and down with a couple of karate kicks from opposite sides of the street, and someone putting a window through on the walk back to Stockport station gets retold as a six hour, 500 man brawl with one of the locals pulling out a bazooka in a pub. ‘Chaps’ at the football are probably the least reliable narrators on the planet. Uncle Alberts.
None of their stories ever involve starting on people minding their own business, bricking supporters club coaches full of old folk, kids and trainspotters, racially abusing staff/passengers on trains etc, smashing-up small businesses (pubs), and yet I’ve probably seen more of that from ‘lads’ over the years that I have epic, heroic tear-ups in the station forecourt at Wigan Wallgate or outside the away end at Saltergate.
I’m probably about five years older than you, and was taken to the football every week from the age of three-four. Once we got to secondary school, I would go to any midweek games on in London with mates from school. A couple of years older, and I was allowed to away games outside of London without my Dad if going with my eldest brother or older kids from round our way, so would clock up new grounds by going away with Tottenham family/friends and to the odd Arsenal game; so I went to a lot of football in the 80’s, and it means a lot to me as it’s when I really fell in love with the game, started standing away from my Dad with the singers, going away, making mates at the football etc. So there’s huge nostalgia for me, but I also remember the complete wear-out of trying not to get a kicking at a lot of away games, a lot of mates getting a hiding when they were just minding their own business, open racism, and mates from school who loved football not ever being allowed to go to games because their parents didn’t want them getting caught-up in trouble. I’ve worked with Asian blokes who grew-up round the corner from Molineux and Filbert Street, who love football, but never went to watch their local team because it was considered too dangerous for them as Asians. Turning on the telly and seeing what England/English club fans had got up to on the continent during the 80’s - mid 90’s was a source of national embarrassment for most of us - I’m not a fan of face paint and jesters hats, but I’d take that over smashing-up Luxembourg City FFS.
As for the songs you listed - i’ve sung a few of them, not to mention a few about Elton John, and yes, I’m absolutely embarrassed to have done so. But I’m not fourteen anymore. I’ve grown-up and society’s progressed. And I’ve met/known more than a few Northerners and Midlanders over the years who didn’t find songs about signing-on, going through bins for food etc megalolz bantz, and they aren’t/weren’t the type that i would put in the snowflake bracket.
If a day at the football was so great in the eighties, then why were most grounds empty most of the time, when it cost buttons and you could get into almost any game on the gate? I hate what football has become, but an awful lot of working class people had given up on it in the 80’s because spending an afternoon with all the bol locks that you often couldn’t avoid back then, wasn’t their idea of a good day out. Especially not with kids. It wasn’t SKY TV, ticket prices or wa nky kick-off times that drove them away, it was the kno bhead fans.
[Post edited 7 Dec 2020 4:41]
Great post. Those of us old enough to have been going in the 80s will find a lot that resonates here. I started going regularly in the 82/83 season. By and large the "lads" you refer to were cowards only ready to show when in large groups and as you say loved a bit of intimidating people they know would be scared of them or who they outnumbered. I imagine the most vocal at Wall at the weekend were just this sort.
Football grounds are much safer places to be now, and that's a good thing.
No regret at all, people used to laugh at stuff like that then.
You'll have to ask a lot of fans from that period if they are ashamed that they waved cash at in areas affected by the miners strike during the height of the industrial action.
Whether they are ashamed they sang 'Spurs are on their way to Autchwitz' at Wembley in 1982.
Whether they're ashamed to have sung Munich songs.
Whether they're ashamed to have song songs mocking the Scousers for being unemployed.
Whether they feel ashamed to have mocked Matthew Harding with songs.
The list goes on.
People in those days had a sense of humour about different things and it was all tounge in cheek.
One can't help but think that the snowflake generation and the middle class who discovered football in the 1990s are the ones who get it wrong because they take offence on behalf of everyone even when their sympathy is not wanted or requested.
You're kidding right? In my youth when I didn't know better I might have joined in with that sort of thing exactly because I didn't know better. Now I do, and I'm ashamed of that behaviour.
Ignorance explains those chants back in the day even if it doesn't explain them. These days, thankfully we are better informed as a society and there is no excuse.
If you have a choice of potentially offending someone wihh a joke or comment because "it's tongue in cheek"/ having a laugh, or just keeping your mouth shut, what kind of a cnt do you have to be to pick the first option?
The problem with BLM and it shows in this thread, full 6 pages, that it is a movement but it's the wrong kind.
It is mainly middle class white people who believe in the b0llocks that is critical race theory.
BLM has become/is a fascist movement. It had created an us and them mentality which is the exact opposite to what we really need to stop racism. Its a shame that if anyone thinks this they will be shot down as racist. Maybe the working class just understand that not making a big deal of the colour of someone's skin may actually stop all this nonsense 🤷🤷
Not sure Trevor Phillips is someone who should be quoted for his views on race
No regret at all, people used to laugh at stuff like that then.
You'll have to ask a lot of fans from that period if they are ashamed that they waved cash at in areas affected by the miners strike during the height of the industrial action.
Whether they are ashamed they sang 'Spurs are on their way to Autchwitz' at Wembley in 1982.
Whether they're ashamed to have sung Munich songs.
Whether they're ashamed to have song songs mocking the Scousers for being unemployed.
Whether they feel ashamed to have mocked Matthew Harding with songs.
The list goes on.
People in those days had a sense of humour about different things and it was all tounge in cheek.
One can't help but think that the snowflake generation and the middle class who discovered football in the 1990s are the ones who get it wrong because they take offence on behalf of everyone even when their sympathy is not wanted or requested.
You're asking whether people should feel embarrassed for singing a song mocking the holocaust?
We are clearly not thinking on the same level, I genuinely feel sorry for you if that's how your brain works
#QPR players will be taking knee before the game at Millwall tomorrow. Rangers feel not doing so might be seen as a sign of support for those booing or lack of support for anti-racism message.
"I am a proud anti-fascist, as was my dad ...and we were both proud lifelong QPR fans, who always thought those two went together."
Ah, the old QPR are left wing, Chelsea, right wing myth...
Sorry to disappoint you but it was never like that. We have always had a fine mixture of opinions at Loftus Road ranging from far-right to far-left with everything in between... The only thing we ever agreed on was politics had no place at Loftus Road.
Many Rs and Chelsea fans used to attend each others matches too and a lot of families in West London had divided loyalties.
I am reluctant to be lectured on the realities of supporting QPR or life in west London. My family are Latimer Road and White City, my first Loftus Road visit was in 66 and I have known many of the characters you talk about and those who proceeded them on the Loft back in 69. I am not suggesting that QPR were ever the Red Brigades in blue and white hoops, but that we certainly never became the Surrey branch of the British Movement like that sorry bunch down the road. At the time they were adoring Glasgow Rangers and abusing anybody who didn't look like an overweight bulldog with bad teeth, many of the Rangers I ran with were proudly Irish, West Indian or a mix of both and we certainly knew which side we were on.
Chelsea have been the most vile, violent racist bunch and like most QPR fans I consider that another very decent reason not to like Chelsea.
No regret at all, people used to laugh at stuff like that then.
You'll have to ask a lot of fans from that period if they are ashamed that they waved cash at in areas affected by the miners strike during the height of the industrial action.
Whether they are ashamed they sang 'Spurs are on their way to Autchwitz' at Wembley in 1982.
Whether they're ashamed to have sung Munich songs.
Whether they're ashamed to have song songs mocking the Scousers for being unemployed.
Whether they feel ashamed to have mocked Matthew Harding with songs.
The list goes on.
People in those days had a sense of humour about different things and it was all tounge in cheek.
One can't help but think that the snowflake generation and the middle class who discovered football in the 1990s are the ones who get it wrong because they take offence on behalf of everyone even when their sympathy is not wanted or requested.
Think you probably hung around with the kind of fans who found that 'fun'. Yes i remember those chants and i found them pretty shocking then and i was in my mid-teens.
#QPR players will be taking knee before the game at Millwall tomorrow. Rangers feel not doing so might be seen as a sign of support for those booing or lack of support for anti-racism message.
I think that's a very sensible decision by the club. I completely get Les's point that it's become a bit of a meaningless/politicised gesture rather than a show of support for anti-racism and we're doing much more as a club through our recruitment and community work than a lot of the clubs that do it universally. However, we don't want to get caught up in the Millwall dispute between the club and the fans or to be perceived as against the anti-racism movement. You couldn't make it up that this is the match that's live on Sky and we're involved.
I think that's a very sensible decision by the club. I completely get Les's point that it's become a bit of a meaningless/politicised gesture rather than a show of support for anti-racism and we're doing much more as a club through our recruitment and community work than a lot of the clubs that do it universally. However, we don't want to get caught up in the Millwall dispute between the club and the fans or to be perceived as against the anti-racism movement. You couldn't make it up that this is the match that's live on Sky and we're involved.
I look at us now with half the team taking the knee and half not and think we look bloody stupid, either all do it or all don't do it.
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