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I don’t see the difference between taking a knee and holding a banner to be honest. The whole thing is a farce.
How about they take a banner while holding their knees?
Or, to marry the modern world with the old, they could put a maypole with black and white ribbons on the centre circle, and the players could dance round it weaving the ribbons together in a symbolic etc etc
How about they take a banner while holding their knees?
Or, to marry the modern world with the old, they could put a maypole with black and white ribbons on the centre circle, and the players could dance round it weaving the ribbons together in a symbolic etc etc
No idea where you could possibly have got that idea from!
It's not like anyone in the team has publicly and repeatedly expressed support for a proven racist and vehement oponent of the BLM movement, let alone someone with sway and influence like, say, the club captain!
Because the moment you put race first, Black lives matter, you become a group that is segregated alienates any other race.
I know what that sounds like but it's true. The fact you make race a point you give it substance and make an issue out of that one particular thing. Add that to all the demonstrations that turned to riots, that included Anthony Joshua spouting about black people should only buy from black people reaffirms the segregation.
It doesn't so anything but separates black and white, and the fact that it has gone a movement, which you should be allowed to disagree with. To something that is either you are with us or against us feels very wrong and I can't be the only one who believes this?
I think classing BLM as divisive fails to see the context of their existence. Black lives matter is a response to violence, racial profiling and institutionalised racism towards black people. It is being put first because people are murdered because of their race. Sure you've heard this before but it's not 'Black lives matter and white lives don't'.
You say 'The fact you make race a point you give it substance and make an issue out of that one particular thing'. I'd say what's making it an issue is police brutality, disproportionate stop and searches and incarceration for minor offences, unconscious biases of individuals and institutions. BLM is a response to highlight all that.
Don't know the Joshua quote but have seen lots of celebrities championing black owned businesses. Frankly, in a year where Bezos makes £10bn a day, I see no issue in directing people towards independent/smaller businesses rather than scummy transnational corporations.
I suppose going along those lines if one of our team was gay and wanted to wear a gay pride badge for example his team mates may want to say look I'm not gay but I support you and I'm going to stand with you so I'll wear it as well, they wouldn't have to kiss another man just show support. If some of our team feel they want to take the knee in support of racial equality then the whole team should support their teams mates and do it.
The way we are currently doing it and what is planned for tomorrow with only a few of the team doing it is ridiculous imo. The fact that it's only our white players not taking the knee as well makes me a bit uncomfortable to be honest
Am I right in thinking that Millwall players are not taking the knee tomorrow but we are in a sort of role reversal?
That will really fire up their support for their team as they don't want their players taking the knee. They won't care what our players do but they will turn hostile to our team as they will believe we are trying to stitch them up by making the gesture for this fixture but not at Coventry etc.
I expect the only booing tomorrow will be reserved for the QPR team and they will applaud their players for remaining on their feet before kick off and wearing anti racist shirts.
Am I right in thinking that Millwall players are not taking the knee tomorrow but we are in a sort of role reversal?
That will really fire up their support for their team as they don't want their players taking the knee. They won't care what our players do but they will turn hostile to our team as they will believe we are trying to stitch them up by making the gesture for this fixture but not at Coventry etc.
I expect the only booing tomorrow will be reserved for the QPR team and they will applaud their players for remaining on their feet before kick off and wearing anti racist shirts.
Tbf I don't think Millwall need to turn hostile, they've been triggered nutcases for decades.
Because the moment you put race first, Black lives matter, you become a group that is segregated alienates any other race.
I know what that sounds like but it's true. The fact you make race a point you give it substance and make an issue out of that one particular thing. Add that to all the demonstrations that turned to riots, that included Anthony Joshua spouting about black people should only buy from black people reaffirms the segregation.
It doesn't so anything but separates black and white, and the fact that it has gone a movement, which you should be allowed to disagree with. To something that is either you are with us or against us feels very wrong and I can't be the only one who believes this?
Anthony Joshua read out a speech where he gave constructive things to do such as support local black business, That was quickly turned into Anthony Josuha is telling people to only buy from black people
Am I right in thinking that Millwall players are not taking the knee tomorrow but we are in a sort of role reversal?
That will really fire up their support for their team as they don't want their players taking the knee. They won't care what our players do but they will turn hostile to our team as they will believe we are trying to stitch them up by making the gesture for this fixture but not at Coventry etc.
I expect the only booing tomorrow will be reserved for the QPR team and they will applaud their players for remaining on their feet before kick off and wearing anti racist shirts.
Yes thats right, the only ones taking the knee will be a handful of our players. They've basically given in to the Millwall fans. it's pathetic
I think classing BLM as divisive fails to see the context of their existence. Black lives matter is a response to violence, racial profiling and institutionalised racism towards black people. It is being put first because people are murdered because of their race. Sure you've heard this before but it's not 'Black lives matter and white lives don't'.
You say 'The fact you make race a point you give it substance and make an issue out of that one particular thing'. I'd say what's making it an issue is police brutality, disproportionate stop and searches and incarceration for minor offences, unconscious biases of individuals and institutions. BLM is a response to highlight all that.
Don't know the Joshua quote but have seen lots of celebrities championing black owned businesses. Frankly, in a year where Bezos makes £10bn a day, I see no issue in directing people towards independent/smaller businesses rather than scummy transnational corporations.
I think the idea with calling for black people to support black businesses is the argument that if no-one else is seriously trying to tackle discrimination, then black people should do what they can to help themselves economically/socially by supporting black-owned businesses, who in turn will be more likely to be in a position to employ other black people and support other black businesses. I don’t see that as controversial- they’re not calling for a boycott of white businesses; just asking people to support local jobs and services that can boost their community.
How about they take a banner while holding their knees?
Or, to marry the modern world with the old, they could put a maypole with black and white ribbons on the centre circle, and the players could dance round it weaving the ribbons together in a symbolic etc etc
In the game there was Terry And a racist fcuk was he ...
So, milwalls plan and an understandable if unfortunate lack of a unified approach to kneeling from our players, means milwall fans get the chance to boo a few black players tonight. I can see QPR walking off the pitch before kick off
So, milwalls plan and an understandable if unfortunate lack of a unified approach to kneeling from our players, means milwall fans get the chance to boo a few black players tonight. I can see QPR walking off the pitch before kick off
yep, here's a grenade to throw onto this fire in a skip: if Millwall fans boo the show of solidarity tonight, I think our players should walk off and not play the game. Yes, even if it means sacrificing 3 points.
yep, here's a grenade to throw onto this fire in a skip: if Millwall fans boo the show of solidarity tonight, I think our players should walk off and not play the game. Yes, even if it means sacrificing 3 points.
My head just exploded trying to work out what the Football League would do in response.
yep, here's a grenade to throw onto this fire in a skip: if Millwall fans boo the show of solidarity tonight, I think our players should walk off and not play the game. Yes, even if it means sacrificing 3 points.
I really wouldn't go down that route. I wouldn't have a problem with Fulham bringing players off if there was racist abuse during the game, because it would hopefully force the authorities to do something meaningful, like order a future game to be played behind closed doors (yeah, I know, covid and all that). But because plenty of people are saying that this is all about their opposition to Marxism/some dopey student BLM organiser in Oxford - and I'll give people the benefit of the doubt and accept that may be the case for some of the boo-ers - then you can't prove they're booing just because they're actually racist knobs as opposed to people familiar with, and critical of the work of Karl Marx. Bringing players off for booing players taking the knee would be so divisive amongst ANY club's support, that I think it would be hugely counterproductive.
On another note, given South London produces a ridiculous amount of talented young, black footballers, for all the good work the club are doing, if I was a black kid living in South London, this wouldn't be doing much in terms of making me think Millwall was a club I wanted to sign-up for.
yep, here's a grenade to throw onto this fire in a skip: if Millwall fans boo the show of solidarity tonight, I think our players should walk off and not play the game. Yes, even if it means sacrificing 3 points.
I think the idea with calling for black people to support black businesses is the argument that if no-one else is seriously trying to tackle discrimination, then black people should do what they can to help themselves economically/socially by supporting black-owned businesses, who in turn will be more likely to be in a position to employ other black people and support other black businesses. I don’t see that as controversial- they’re not calling for a boycott of white businesses; just asking people to support local jobs and services that can boost their community.
Quite a few of my mates done this, started shopping in exclusively black businesses, driving up to Luton and all sorts to visit specific businesses that made a point of supporting BLM. It effectively was a boycott of non-black owned businesses for a time.
All of this quickly changed when they realised it was becomming a lot more expensive than their usual shops, though.
"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius
I really wouldn't go down that route. I wouldn't have a problem with Fulham bringing players off if there was racist abuse during the game, because it would hopefully force the authorities to do something meaningful, like order a future game to be played behind closed doors (yeah, I know, covid and all that). But because plenty of people are saying that this is all about their opposition to Marxism/some dopey student BLM organiser in Oxford - and I'll give people the benefit of the doubt and accept that may be the case for some of the boo-ers - then you can't prove they're booing just because they're actually racist knobs as opposed to people familiar with, and critical of the work of Karl Marx. Bringing players off for booing players taking the knee would be so divisive amongst ANY club's support, that I think it would be hugely counterproductive.
On another note, given South London produces a ridiculous amount of talented young, black footballers, for all the good work the club are doing, if I was a black kid living in South London, this wouldn't be doing much in terms of making me think Millwall was a club I wanted to sign-up for.
[Post edited 8 Dec 2020 10:20]
You can be very generous with those thoughts Konk, for Saturday, but not, I think, for tonight. Both clubs have been crystal clear about what exactly they are supporting and what they are saying. That 'excuse', flimsy on Saturday, would not apply tonight. Totally get your point though.
One is a call for 22 millionaires to kneel in a field, the other is a set of criminals that were jailed for racial and religious harassment and aggravated assault.
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[Post edited 11 Feb 2021 12:03]
"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius
Quite a few of my mates done this, started shopping in exclusively black businesses, driving up to Luton and all sorts to visit specific businesses that made a point of supporting BLM. It effectively was a boycott of non-black owned businesses for a time.
All of this quickly changed when they realised it was becomming a lot more expensive than their usual shops, though.
Well, as far as possible, I try and buy everything and use services on my local high street, because one of the reasons we moved here, was because we wanted a thriving high street nearby. If there's something we can't get there - like, a telly or something - then I'm probably looking at a big chain - so I'm not boycotting chains, I'm simply choosing to spend my money in my community where possible. Some things work out cheaper in the independents, something's are a bit more expensive, but you generally get excellent, knowledgeable service, your money is staying in the local economy, and in a few cases, we're supporting the businesses of either neighbours or parents at our son's school. 80% of the people who renovated our home lived within a mile of our house. It seems to me that it's in our own interests to spend our money in our local community.
I don't think black people are going to pay over the odds for poor products/service just because the business owner is black, but by proactively seeking out black businesses, they might discover some gems that they then continue supporting, knowing that they're helping people from similar backgrounds, who in turn are more inclined to give other black prospective employees and businesses a chance, when others might not. Seems fair enough to me.
if nothing else this incident demonstrates really nicely how effectively our disgusting media platforms have laundered the thoroughly antisemitic concept of 'cultural marxism' to now mean 'anything I, the prole whisperer, have declared to be the enemy of the (white) working class'
genuinely cannot believe how quickly that phrase has gone from alt right circles a few years ago to mainstream talk radio. the word Marxist shouldn't appear once in this thread, it's got f*cking nothing to do with racism. you'd almost think it's a desperate deflection in order to talk about something else
“The thing about football - the important thing about football - is that it is not just about football.â€
if nothing else this incident demonstrates really nicely how effectively our disgusting media platforms have laundered the thoroughly antisemitic concept of 'cultural marxism' to now mean 'anything I, the prole whisperer, have declared to be the enemy of the (white) working class'
genuinely cannot believe how quickly that phrase has gone from alt right circles a few years ago to mainstream talk radio. the word Marxist shouldn't appear once in this thread, it's got f*cking nothing to do with racism. you'd almost think it's a desperate deflection in order to talk about something else
Sorry, meant to up-arrow not down-arrow. Completely agree.
Well, as far as possible, I try and buy everything and use services on my local high street, because one of the reasons we moved here, was because we wanted a thriving high street nearby. If there's something we can't get there - like, a telly or something - then I'm probably looking at a big chain - so I'm not boycotting chains, I'm simply choosing to spend my money in my community where possible. Some things work out cheaper in the independents, something's are a bit more expensive, but you generally get excellent, knowledgeable service, your money is staying in the local economy, and in a few cases, we're supporting the businesses of either neighbours or parents at our son's school. 80% of the people who renovated our home lived within a mile of our house. It seems to me that it's in our own interests to spend our money in our local community.
I don't think black people are going to pay over the odds for poor products/service just because the business owner is black, but by proactively seeking out black businesses, they might discover some gems that they then continue supporting, knowing that they're helping people from similar backgrounds, who in turn are more inclined to give other black prospective employees and businesses a chance, when others might not. Seems fair enough to me.
[Post edited 8 Dec 2020 11:16]
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[Post edited 11 Feb 2021 11:53]
"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius
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