| Squad of missing men 11:59 - Dec 5 with 11011 views | WestbourneR |
What's happened to Ryan Manning? He's probably injured and I missed it but he wasn't really in the team when fit this season either.
Got to say I think that's a shame and another reason why we need to tweak our formation to make room for people like him.
For me, last season, Manning coming into the team turned us around. His bite but most importantly his guile and vision and use of the ball really made us tick as an attacking force. Good set piece too. His assist with the outside of his boot vs Reading away was a highlight moment. True class.
We've got so many players in the squad and yet it seems totally unclear how they fit the formation or who our strongest selection is. Where do Shodipo, Manning, Osayi-Samuel, Cousins, Ngbakoto, Ariel, Wheeler all fit in our team? I feel there is a bunch of talent there with no plan to make room for them on the pitch. Are Jamie Mackie and Conor Washington really our best players? Isn't it time some of the new blood got a decent run? Otherwise why did we buy them?
The squad is very big, very messy and I don't believe Holloway has any idea how to get it organised. He seems to keep buying players and then have no idea how to use them. He told Northern in his interview that he'd bought wingers to supply our aerially strong forwards - and yet this season we've not played a system or formation that has done that once. Tbh JFH was the same.
It's getting on my nerves. Just play with some wingers and some width!! Is it that hard???
Sorry, ranting. Rant over. |  |
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| Squad of missing men on 15:45 - Dec 5 with 1956 views | daveB |
| Squad of missing men on 15:36 - Dec 5 by Northernr |
Yeh agree, he set against Shodipo and Sylla for minor stuff every early on.
But like you say he gets them every day in training. |
hasn't Shodipo been injured a lot though so hasn't been available until the last month or so |  | | |
| Squad of missing men on 15:46 - Dec 5 with 1952 views | Northernr |
| Squad of missing men on 15:45 - Dec 5 by daveB |
hasn't Shodipo been injured a lot though so hasn't been available until the last month or so |
He's been available for longer than a month, and he was bunged out to Port Vale on loan double lively last season when previously he'd been playing and playing well for our first team, but yeh he was injured for the first couple of months of this. |  | | |
| Squad of missing men on 15:50 - Dec 5 with 1944 views | stevec |
| Squad of missing men on 15:29 - Dec 5 by RBlock |
Thought I'd stick it out there, didn't mean to upvote you. Think you're talking out your arse. It isn't a get out of jail free card, it is a reality. Who is really desperate to snap up an Ariel or a Yeni right about now? |
Exactly, no one.
So on shorter contracts they would have been out the door by now anyway.
If you're getting in players from lower divisions they should be looking at QPR as a name (they used to) and if they're the right sort they would accept a shorter contract with recommendations that if they are any good we will want to keep them on. Let's face it, no one bigger than us was in for Yeni or Ariel or most of the others from various lower leagues so there was no justification for long contracts. |  | | |
| Squad of missing men on 16:02 - Dec 5 with 1930 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Squad of missing men on 15:50 - Dec 5 by stevec |
Exactly, no one.
So on shorter contracts they would have been out the door by now anyway.
If you're getting in players from lower divisions they should be looking at QPR as a name (they used to) and if they're the right sort they would accept a shorter contract with recommendations that if they are any good we will want to keep them on. Let's face it, no one bigger than us was in for Yeni or Ariel or most of the others from various lower leagues so there was no justification for long contracts. |
Wolves were in for Yeni. Not sure how you could possibly know who is 'in' for which player with such certainty? |  |
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| Squad of missing men on 16:04 - Dec 5 with 1927 views | Northernr |
| Squad of missing men on 15:50 - Dec 5 by stevec |
Exactly, no one.
So on shorter contracts they would have been out the door by now anyway.
If you're getting in players from lower divisions they should be looking at QPR as a name (they used to) and if they're the right sort they would accept a shorter contract with recommendations that if they are any good we will want to keep them on. Let's face it, no one bigger than us was in for Yeni or Ariel or most of the others from various lower leagues so there was no justification for long contracts. |
When we signed a good un moving up the leagues on a shorter contract and it turned out to be Charlie Austin the club was subsequently pilloried for not giving him a longer one and therefore only getting £4m for him. | | | |
| Squad of missing men on 16:05 - Dec 5 with 1927 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Squad of missing men on 15:50 - Dec 5 by stevec |
Exactly, no one.
So on shorter contracts they would have been out the door by now anyway.
If you're getting in players from lower divisions they should be looking at QPR as a name (they used to) and if they're the right sort they would accept a shorter contract with recommendations that if they are any good we will want to keep them on. Let's face it, no one bigger than us was in for Yeni or Ariel or most of the others from various lower leagues so there was no justification for long contracts. |
Also, fairly sure players would be unwilling to move countries on a one year deal. You'd have to pay huge wages for that sort of deal. | |
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| Squad of missing men on 16:15 - Dec 5 with 1908 views | WestbourneR |
I've got to say I see Freeman as player who plays in the hole or out wide - I don't think he's at his best further back. I'd also consider Manning as someone who can play out wide for his great deliveries or in the middle. Wherever needed.
I'd also definitely drop three and the back and return to back four asap.
4-2-3-1.
RB Furlong - CB Robinson CB - CB Whoever is fit - LB Bidwell/Lynch (tbh think Lynch is better LB)
Scowen - DMC Luongo - CM
RW - Wszowek / Wheeler AMC - Freeman LW - Manning / Shodipo
CF - Sylla
You've then got subs of like Yenni, Osayi-Samuel, Smith, Washington, Mackie. | |
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| Squad of missing men on 16:29 - Dec 5 with 1879 views | stevec |
| Squad of missing men on 16:04 - Dec 5 by Northernr |
When we signed a good un moving up the leagues on a shorter contract and it turned out to be Charlie Austin the club was subsequently pilloried for not giving him a longer one and therefore only getting £4m for him. |
Well that was my point, Charlie was already a Championship regular, scoring goals. In cases like that you make an educated call and give them a longer contract.
Antti mentions Yeni and Wolves. The bloke had done nothing of note, not played in this Division so again, play the percentages.
You're never going to get it 100% right but if you'd ask most fans whose most likely to be a success, Charlie or Yeni, I'd imagine the vast majority would have called it right.
Irrespective of finances, lower league players are more likely to fail than proven Championship players. | | | |
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| Squad of missing men on 16:31 - Dec 5 with 1878 views | WestbourneR |
| Squad of missing men on 16:15 - Dec 5 by WestbourneR |
I've got to say I see Freeman as player who plays in the hole or out wide - I don't think he's at his best further back. I'd also consider Manning as someone who can play out wide for his great deliveries or in the middle. Wherever needed.
I'd also definitely drop three and the back and return to back four asap.
4-2-3-1.
RB Furlong - CB Robinson CB - CB Whoever is fit - LB Bidwell/Lynch (tbh think Lynch is better LB)
Scowen - DMC Luongo - CM
RW - Wszowek / Wheeler AMC - Freeman LW - Manning / Shodipo
CF - Sylla
You've then got subs of like Yenni, Osayi-Samuel, Smith, Washington, Mackie. |
Because that was almost impossible to read. 4-2-3-1
RB Furlong --- CB Baptiste ---- CB Robinson ---- LB Lynch
------------------DMC Scowen ---- CM Luongo------------------
---RW Wzsowek --- AMC Freeman --- LW Shodipo
------------------------- CF Sylla ---------------------------- | |
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| Squad of missing men on 16:46 - Dec 5 with 1852 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Squad of missing men on 16:29 - Dec 5 by stevec |
Well that was my point, Charlie was already a Championship regular, scoring goals. In cases like that you make an educated call and give them a longer contract.
Antti mentions Yeni and Wolves. The bloke had done nothing of note, not played in this Division so again, play the percentages.
You're never going to get it 100% right but if you'd ask most fans whose most likely to be a success, Charlie or Yeni, I'd imagine the vast majority would have called it right.
Irrespective of finances, lower league players are more likely to fail than proven Championship players. |
You've lost me, mate. Are you saying fans thought Austin would be a bigger success, but Les/Hoos/Ollie didn't?
And the whole point everyone is making is that we can't afford an Austin equivalent now. Yeni is a prime example of, as you said, playing the percentages. A player who'd played top level in France, who English clubs in our league were looking at (there was a furore on here at one point when it looked like we'd lost him to Wolves), who was off the back of scoring 12 goals in 2015/16 (admittedly in ligue 2, but it was a promotion winning team), and who was of a decent young age, where you could reasonably hope he'd improve. It hasn't worked out, but it's not like unheralded players from France (Mahrez, Kante) have not done well over here. Every signing is a risk, I'm just confused by the idea that you think the lengths of contracts are somehow 'random'. As I said, good luck convinving a player to emigrate with the offer of a 1 year deal. Why would they?
'Irrespective of finances, lower league players are more likely to fail than proven Championship players.'
What does that even mean? I mean, yes, a player who has done well in a league would be more likely to do so again, but that's irrelevant if you can't afford them, isn't it? Of course Rhodes would be more likely to score more goals than Washington. But we didn't have £12m to spunk on Jordan Rhodes, did we? | |
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| Squad of missing men on 16:48 - Dec 5 with 1849 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Squad of missing men on 16:31 - Dec 5 by WestbourneR |
Because that was almost impossible to read. 4-2-3-1
RB Furlong --- CB Baptiste ---- CB Robinson ---- LB Lynch
------------------DMC Scowen ---- CM Luongo------------------
---RW Wzsowek --- AMC Freeman --- LW Shodipo
------------------------- CF Sylla ---------------------------- |
I think that'#s a decent shout, but a year ago people were going mental on here about the very idea of 4-2-3-1.
Lynch is never a left back. Been really disappointed with him, have to say. | |
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| Squad of missing men on 17:03 - Dec 5 with 1826 views | WestbourneR |
| Squad of missing men on 16:48 - Dec 5 by Antti_Heinola |
I think that'#s a decent shout, but a year ago people were going mental on here about the very idea of 4-2-3-1.
Lynch is never a left back. Been really disappointed with him, have to say. |
If you get the wingers up the pitch and when one is crossing the other comes across to join the striker in the box, it's not a negative formation at all. Also get's the trio of Scowen, Luongo and Freeman in the team.
I'd also say Manning could play on the left wing.
Re Lynch. Don't like him at centre back but I think he's quite good on the ball out wide. I think he's a left back. [Post edited 5 Dec 2017 17:05]
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| Squad of missing men on 17:55 - Dec 5 with 1793 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Squad of missing men on 17:03 - Dec 5 by WestbourneR |
If you get the wingers up the pitch and when one is crossing the other comes across to join the striker in the box, it's not a negative formation at all. Also get's the trio of Scowen, Luongo and Freeman in the team.
I'd also say Manning could play on the left wing.
Re Lynch. Don't like him at centre back but I think he's quite good on the ball out wide. I think he's a left back. [Post edited 5 Dec 2017 17:05]
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I was a big defender of 4-2-3-1 as a formation, it doesn't need selling to me. We won the league with it after all.
You've got a harder job convincing me of Lynch. I quite like Bidwell for a start. | |
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| Squad of missing men on 18:18 - Dec 5 with 1773 views | R_from_afar |
| Squad of missing men on 16:48 - Dec 5 by Antti_Heinola |
I think that'#s a decent shout, but a year ago people were going mental on here about the very idea of 4-2-3-1.
Lynch is never a left back. Been really disappointed with him, have to say. |
I like that formation too but some fans will ignore the 4-2-3 bit and get fixated on the 1 and rage about how we should never play that way* especially not at home.
RFA
*Even though it served Uncle Neil rather well  |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Squad of missing men on 22:18 - Dec 5 with 1648 views | karl |
Great thread with well argued points, lot of good info for us that see a lot less of the squad.
It's obvious the midfield three are our best players but it does present problems when thinking about best supporting them since they unfortunately don't score goals, if they'd grabbed 10 between them by now its easy, solid back 4 who give nothing away with the support of wide midfield and a hard working lone man up front. However they don't and that's the problem as we need two up front since we don't have a Charlie type banging them in. Easy part is playing two up front but with the added problem of so many injuries we're so open at the back and concede too easily, he's not got an easy job but I do think his reluctance to have seeded in a few younger players is a failing since its too big a gamble playing a lot of them right now, hopefully Chair has shown enough to keep a place and increase our creativity. |  | | |
| Squad of missing men on 22:35 - Dec 5 with 1638 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Squad of missing men on 22:18 - Dec 5 by karl |
Great thread with well argued points, lot of good info for us that see a lot less of the squad.
It's obvious the midfield three are our best players but it does present problems when thinking about best supporting them since they unfortunately don't score goals, if they'd grabbed 10 between them by now its easy, solid back 4 who give nothing away with the support of wide midfield and a hard working lone man up front. However they don't and that's the problem as we need two up front since we don't have a Charlie type banging them in. Easy part is playing two up front but with the added problem of so many injuries we're so open at the back and concede too easily, he's not got an easy job but I do think his reluctance to have seeded in a few younger players is a failing since its too big a gamble playing a lot of them right now, hopefully Chair has shown enough to keep a place and increase our creativity. |
I'm hoping Chair can become part of the furniture. |  | | |
| Squad of missing men on 22:43 - Dec 5 with 1632 views | karl |
| Squad of missing men on 22:35 - Dec 5 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I'm hoping Chair can become part of the furniture. |
As long as he doesn't grow up to be a wardrobe.... | | | |
| Squad of missing men on 23:05 - Dec 5 with 1613 views | CiderwithRsie |
Dunno if this is quite on-topic, but my hope for this season was that we'd
1. Stay up
2. Not sack the manager and go on the old merry-go-round again
3. Develop some youth players
4. Not have to sell our best players
5.. Get to the end of season and shift some high earners to get the books balanced.
Until we get the last one sorted its a case of "and once more, with feeling." On the whole I think we're on course for what I wanted but its going to take time.
There are a few players in the squad who I think are decent but either we've not seen their best or there just doesn't seem to be room for them in the team - Shodipo, Manning, Cousins, Borysiuk, Osayi-Samuel, Sylla and Wheeler. Don't think Holloway has handled all of them well - if Manning was petulant maybe its because he feels pissed off and unwanted - but maybe we have to accept that some of them have to go for the best of reasons, i.e. that there's someone else better already in the team. |  | | |
| Squad of missing men on 23:16 - Dec 5 with 1602 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Squad of missing men on 22:43 - Dec 5 by karl |
As long as he doesn't grow up to be a wardrobe.... |
I’d like to see him at the top of the table. | | | |
| Squad of missing men on 23:19 - Dec 5 with 1599 views | karl |
| Squad of missing men on 23:16 - Dec 5 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I’d like to see him at the top of the table. |
Boom teeesh!
Like it! | | | |
| Squad of missing men on 23:48 - Dec 5 with 1578 views | bob566 |
I think manning has been treated horribly. He's got seven games this year. I would have preferred to stick by him instead of bringing scowen in. What's scowen done. 19 starts and no goals. Tell me manning couldn't have bettered that. If we'd stuck with manning we could potentially have an asset to sell to balance the books with his exposure to the Irish team. Nobody will be queuing up to buy scowen. Should have stuck with manning IMHO | | | |
| Squad of missing men on 00:26 - Dec 6 with 1568 views | LythamR |
| Squad of missing men on 23:48 - Dec 5 by bob566 |
I think manning has been treated horribly. He's got seven games this year. I would have preferred to stick by him instead of bringing scowen in. What's scowen done. 19 starts and no goals. Tell me manning couldn't have bettered that. If we'd stuck with manning we could potentially have an asset to sell to balance the books with his exposure to the Irish team. Nobody will be queuing up to buy scowen. Should have stuck with manning IMHO |
I think Scowen was a great bit of business
This wont be popular but i think the central midfielder that needs to go is Loungo, there are simply not enough goals and assists from him considering where he is playing, We could probably sell him for at least what we paid and this would give other players more of a chance and break the problem Northern mentions with Holloway feeling he has to play Loungo, Freeman and Scowen
I keep seeing people saying he has had an amazing game but often we have lost or drawn these games, I just dont think he has enough influence on results, he picked up earlier this season for a handful of games but has gone back to his general level, which isnt bad but its not influential.
Meanwhile we have the likes of Wheeler, Bright, Shodipo barely getting a sniff and thats a waste as well as being a disincentive to other players we may be trying to sign |  | | |
| Squad of missing men on 00:40 - Dec 6 with 1560 views | Boston |
| Squad of missing men on 23:48 - Dec 5 by bob566 |
I think manning has been treated horribly. He's got seven games this year. I would have preferred to stick by him instead of bringing scowen in. What's scowen done. 19 starts and no goals. Tell me manning couldn't have bettered that. If we'd stuck with manning we could potentially have an asset to sell to balance the books with his exposure to the Irish team. Nobody will be queuing up to buy scowen. Should have stuck with manning IMHO |
bob bob bob bob bob....Scowen is one of the best signing we've made in the last five years. | |
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| Squad of missing men on 01:06 - Dec 6 with 1547 views | bob566 |
| Squad of missing men on 00:40 - Dec 6 by Boston |
bob bob bob bob bob....Scowen is one of the best signing we've made in the last five years. |
Really? Freeman, scowen and lluongo have delivered four goals from a combined fifty plus starts. Freeman with the four. They're hailed as a great trio. I'm not as convinced as you. Freeman yes. The other two. Well I'm not so sure | | | |
| Squad of missing men on 01:27 - Dec 6 with 1537 views | PunteR |
Just a quick point on the lack of striker signings. There is no point in spending big money on one player if our goal isnt promotion. Which it isnt. Even if we brought in a 20 goal a season striker and we somehow got promoted, our club isnt ready for the premier league anyway. |  |
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