| Genuine question - from a Trust Member 19:19 - Nov 5 with 53429 views | marchamjack |
Were The Trust any part of the discussion process to keep Clement?
Thanks in advance. |  |
| Oh,..Dave, what's occuring? |
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| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 14:24 - Nov 12 with 2171 views | Neath_Jack |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 14:05 - Nov 12 by Swanseajill |
I'm not offended at all. You have an opinion ..like all of us.
We are doomed to fail because the team are playing at times like a bunch of fairies.
The rest of it is club management and we, as fans, all feel useless to do anything about it.
The one way we have of showing our feelings is through the trust.And I can assure you NJ, I've never blindly supported anyone.
... Well, maybe Gary Stanley... |
You said "and that as a trust member I will support them as long as I'm able". That to me is blind faith, maybe i read it wrong but i Know you are one of the Trusts biggest supporters.
It is my opinion that the trust board will be remembered for all the wrong reasons the way it's going.
Anyway, I'm not going to cross swords with you today, it is Remembrance Day after all. |  |
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| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 14:25 - Nov 12 with 2169 views | BillyChong |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 14:05 - Nov 12 by Swanseajill |
I'm not offended at all. You have an opinion ..like all of us.
We are doomed to fail because the team are playing at times like a bunch of fairies.
The rest of it is club management and we, as fans, all feel useless to do anything about it.
The one way we have of showing our feelings is through the trust.And I can assure you NJ, I've never blindly supported anyone.
... Well, maybe Gary Stanley... |
“We are doomed to fail because the team are playing at times like a bunch of fairies.
The rest of it is club management and we, as fans, all feel useless to do anything about it”
Ridiculous statement |  | | |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 14:28 - Nov 12 with 2156 views | Swanseajill |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 14:25 - Nov 12 by BillyChong |
“We are doomed to fail because the team are playing at times like a bunch of fairies.
The rest of it is club management and we, as fans, all feel useless to do anything about it”
Ridiculous statement |
Please explain ridiculous statement,. |  | | |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 14:37 - Nov 12 with 2134 views | whiterock |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 14:28 - Nov 12 by Swanseajill |
Please explain ridiculous statement,. |
The team, as I see it is better than our current position, they are playing like a bunch of fairies and only PC can do anything about restoring confidence, we can’t and I think that’s what Jill is alluding to | | | |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 14:41 - Nov 12 with 2123 views | waynekerr55 |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 14:03 - Nov 12 by whiterock |
The Trust though are interested in the long term future of the club and whilst, I’m sure no one likes the situation all out war would see us fall like a stone. |
And passiveness also leads to a south facig path. Look at Blackburn and the Venkys and Blackpool. They've only just got shot of the Oystons and that's too late |  |
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| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 14:43 - Nov 12 with 2116 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 14:23 - Nov 12 by Swanseajill |
All painfully true Lisa, and it was a chance still in taking them ( the whole lot of them) to court.
The cost would have cleaned out Trust Funds. That's the fans money, so they had a say on whether to sell shares/ Sue/or do nothing. The Trust is not to blame for the mess we're in.
I don't believe for one moment that the Trust are guilty of your last paragraph. But always a pleasure to read your posts. |
You're right that the Trust had to consult members. But there's no getting away from the fact that the members were always going to vote to accept given the way the whole thing was done.
It was a chance taking them to court. But the more I think about it, the more I realise that the Americans themselves thought they'd lose. I believe that they were also told that the Trust had a very strong case.
The reason I believe this is them getting HJ to buy the shares from the Trust. Given that he absolutely would not want to do that, I think they told him that if they lost in court, they would come after the original transaction and they would win. And he believed them. So there was a collective belief that would happen. Enough of a belief that he would agree to pay £5m out of a sale that he only completed a year ago. | | | |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 14:43 - Nov 12 with 2113 views | whiterock |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 14:41 - Nov 12 by waynekerr55 |
And passiveness also leads to a south facig path. Look at Blackburn and the Venkys and Blackpool. They've only just got shot of the Oystons and that's too late |
Can’t see them going unless there’s a buyer | | | |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 14:45 - Nov 12 with 2104 views | Uxbridge |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 11:55 - Nov 12 by londonlisa2001 |
"I hope some of the posters here reassess their position in that regard, you'd be welcome additions."
What is that supposed to mean? You've said a few times that people aren't prepared to do stuff - you've even used phrases like 'the silence is deafening'. What is it that you mean?
On a wider note, if you disagree with the direction being taken, resign. It's all that you can do. |
The dilemma is I don't entirely agree with that last sentence or at least it contradicts a lot of what I've said in the past. Stay and argue your case, or go to make a stand. Like I said, I'm torn on that one, although I usually use Monny and Clasey as my barometer on such things and their clarity makes me question the lack of mine.
What I mean is this... The Trust needs to represent a wide range of fans, and the board needs to reflect those differing views. I think there are some people on here that I think would be excellent additions to the board based on their contributions in various threads. However, they haven't to date taken the opportunity to apply, and I hope they do. Nothing more.
That's not a criticism of anyone. Lots of reasons why someone may not want to do it. Hell (that one's for you Chrissy) I reckon I might have a better idea of the reasons not to apply than anyone. It can be time consuming although, apart from the monthly board meetings, there's no real requirement to be in physical attendance and there are more than enough ways around that particular issue IMO (teleconferencing etc. ). It will affect your family. I guess the commitment is whatever you want it to be, and what sort of board member you'd want to be. Anyway, for those posting on here a couple of hours a day, I dare say it's no more commitment than what you're already doing.
I can't see there being mass resignations though, not least because I doubt half the board read this site. The board were also individually elected and many will feel they have every right to represent their views, which they also feel will represent other groups of fans. However there are vacancies now, and I'll be arguing that the opportunity should be taken to ensure that there is balance within the board.
I'll just take this opportunity to wish Matt well. Totally understand his reasons of course. He was an excellent board member who always pushed for the best interests of the fans above all else, and I think the board is significantly weaker without him. I'll miss him, but then we agreed more often than not (sorry Matt, I've probably killed your credibility there!). |  |
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| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 14:54 - Nov 12 with 2066 views | Neath_Jack |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 14:45 - Nov 12 by Uxbridge |
The dilemma is I don't entirely agree with that last sentence or at least it contradicts a lot of what I've said in the past. Stay and argue your case, or go to make a stand. Like I said, I'm torn on that one, although I usually use Monny and Clasey as my barometer on such things and their clarity makes me question the lack of mine.
What I mean is this... The Trust needs to represent a wide range of fans, and the board needs to reflect those differing views. I think there are some people on here that I think would be excellent additions to the board based on their contributions in various threads. However, they haven't to date taken the opportunity to apply, and I hope they do. Nothing more.
That's not a criticism of anyone. Lots of reasons why someone may not want to do it. Hell (that one's for you Chrissy) I reckon I might have a better idea of the reasons not to apply than anyone. It can be time consuming although, apart from the monthly board meetings, there's no real requirement to be in physical attendance and there are more than enough ways around that particular issue IMO (teleconferencing etc. ). It will affect your family. I guess the commitment is whatever you want it to be, and what sort of board member you'd want to be. Anyway, for those posting on here a couple of hours a day, I dare say it's no more commitment than what you're already doing.
I can't see there being mass resignations though, not least because I doubt half the board read this site. The board were also individually elected and many will feel they have every right to represent their views, which they also feel will represent other groups of fans. However there are vacancies now, and I'll be arguing that the opportunity should be taken to ensure that there is balance within the board.
I'll just take this opportunity to wish Matt well. Totally understand his reasons of course. He was an excellent board member who always pushed for the best interests of the fans above all else, and I think the board is significantly weaker without him. I'll miss him, but then we agreed more often than not (sorry Matt, I've probably killed your credibility there!). |
Ux, simple things like when were you going to announce that Matt and Ian(?) had resigned? Where are we with things like the PA system not being fit for purpose since day 1? That's more important than minuting buying phones or sub-committees, surely you can see that?
Why can't we have a profile page with the members intentions on there, where they stand on important issues? | |
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| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 14:56 - Nov 12 with 2055 views | MattG |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 13:01 - Nov 12 by TheResurrection |
Just have the decency to explain to the fans, the ones that obviously care about what's going on, why you and Ian James resigned?
And who else is due to resign?
The time is now, not next election, the members won't know what they're voting for if people like you continually keep them in the dark.
Get on with it....... |
I'll ignore the decency remark but I've already said why I resigned - my views were too different to the majority of others on the Board. I've also explained why I don't think it's the right thing to talk publicly about the details of that and you shouting about it isn't going to change my mind. I'll say more if and when I decide it's the right thing to do, not before.
EDIT to add that Andy's last post is one reason why I'm not willing to say more at this point - just because others don't resign doesn't necessarily mean that they disagree with me. They might just think they can do more good by staying on the Board and trying to change things from within. Arguably, I've taken the easy option.
Ian resigned a month or so back and, although I'm reluctant to speak for him, as far as I know it was simply due to him no longer having the time. [Post edited 12 Nov 2017 15:06]
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| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 15:07 - Nov 12 with 2001 views | Darran |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 14:56 - Nov 12 by MattG |
I'll ignore the decency remark but I've already said why I resigned - my views were too different to the majority of others on the Board. I've also explained why I don't think it's the right thing to talk publicly about the details of that and you shouting about it isn't going to change my mind. I'll say more if and when I decide it's the right thing to do, not before.
EDIT to add that Andy's last post is one reason why I'm not willing to say more at this point - just because others don't resign doesn't necessarily mean that they disagree with me. They might just think they can do more good by staying on the Board and trying to change things from within. Arguably, I've taken the easy option.
Ian resigned a month or so back and, although I'm reluctant to speak for him, as far as I know it was simply due to him no longer having the time. [Post edited 12 Nov 2017 15:06]
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Well done and thank you for all you’ve tried to achieve Matt. |  |
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| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 15:09 - Nov 12 with 1991 views | TheResurrection |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 14:56 - Nov 12 by MattG |
I'll ignore the decency remark but I've already said why I resigned - my views were too different to the majority of others on the Board. I've also explained why I don't think it's the right thing to talk publicly about the details of that and you shouting about it isn't going to change my mind. I'll say more if and when I decide it's the right thing to do, not before.
EDIT to add that Andy's last post is one reason why I'm not willing to say more at this point - just because others don't resign doesn't necessarily mean that they disagree with me. They might just think they can do more good by staying on the Board and trying to change things from within. Arguably, I've taken the easy option.
Ian resigned a month or so back and, although I'm reluctant to speak for him, as far as I know it was simply due to him no longer having the time. [Post edited 12 Nov 2017 15:06]
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Just look at the farcical way we find out this information.
No wonder the Trust is in the mess it is. No balls whatsoever.
And do you know what, this is now worse. We all know now the issues among the Trust run so deep some can't continue against their principles. There is no leadership, no strong characters. They just continue like nothing's happened.
Clearly Ux hasn't the balls you have, Matt. I'm hoping Phil Sumbler will and soon. |  |
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| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 15:12 - Nov 12 with 1968 views | MattG |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 15:09 - Nov 12 by TheResurrection |
Just look at the farcical way we find out this information.
No wonder the Trust is in the mess it is. No balls whatsoever.
And do you know what, this is now worse. We all know now the issues among the Trust run so deep some can't continue against their principles. There is no leadership, no strong characters. They just continue like nothing's happened.
Clearly Ux hasn't the balls you have, Matt. I'm hoping Phil Sumbler will and soon. |
Just to clarify, I only resigned this morning - there hasn't been any conspiracy of silence.
On your other point, if the majority of the Board hold the same views that just happen to be different to mine, who is to say that they are wrong and I'm right? | | | |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 15:28 - Nov 12 with 1911 views | MoscowJack |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 15:12 - Nov 12 by MattG |
Just to clarify, I only resigned this morning - there hasn't been any conspiracy of silence.
On your other point, if the majority of the Board hold the same views that just happen to be different to mine, who is to say that they are wrong and I'm right? |
Matt,
Couldn't you at least explain the subjects that you felt you disagreed on so strongly that you wanted to resign?
You don't have to name names but it would give us all a fair idea of whether you were in the right or wrong, even though that's not what you're looking for. | |
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| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 15:31 - Nov 12 with 1901 views | whiterock |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 15:12 - Nov 12 by MattG |
Just to clarify, I only resigned this morning - there hasn't been any conspiracy of silence.
On your other point, if the majority of the Board hold the same views that just happen to be different to mine, who is to say that they are wrong and I'm right? |
Sorry to see you go and well done for the time you put in Matt, it’s a commitment that’s for sure, different view are good for any organisation, democracy | | | |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 15:34 - Nov 12 with 1890 views | TheResurrection |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 15:12 - Nov 12 by MattG |
Just to clarify, I only resigned this morning - there hasn't been any conspiracy of silence.
On your other point, if the majority of the Board hold the same views that just happen to be different to mine, who is to say that they are wrong and I'm right? |
There doesn't have to be a wrong or right just yet. I'm sure you'll have some agreeing and disagreeing with you.
I'm sure the points will be discussed though and a consensus view will form. But what you're doing now, and what the rest aren't doing, in making a statement is plain wrong.
That isn't collective responsibility, that's taking the piss. | |
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| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 15:35 - Nov 12 with 1882 views | Uxbridge |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 14:54 - Nov 12 by Neath_Jack |
Ux, simple things like when were you going to announce that Matt and Ian(?) had resigned? Where are we with things like the PA system not being fit for purpose since day 1? That's more important than minuting buying phones or sub-committees, surely you can see that?
Why can't we have a profile page with the members intentions on there, where they stand on important issues? |
Resignations have historically been announced in the monthly minutes. As Matt himself said, he only just did so.
I completely agree with the profiles of the board members being publicly available. More importantly, that is supposed to be in the works. The profile of those on the board not in the public eye needs to be higher. | |
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| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 15:51 - Nov 12 with 1816 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 14:56 - Nov 12 by MattG |
I'll ignore the decency remark but I've already said why I resigned - my views were too different to the majority of others on the Board. I've also explained why I don't think it's the right thing to talk publicly about the details of that and you shouting about it isn't going to change my mind. I'll say more if and when I decide it's the right thing to do, not before.
EDIT to add that Andy's last post is one reason why I'm not willing to say more at this point - just because others don't resign doesn't necessarily mean that they disagree with me. They might just think they can do more good by staying on the Board and trying to change things from within. Arguably, I've taken the easy option.
Ian resigned a month or so back and, although I'm reluctant to speak for him, as far as I know it was simply due to him no longer having the time. [Post edited 12 Nov 2017 15:06]
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“I’ll say more if and when I decide it’s the right thing to do”
That should be engraved into the Trusts “about us” section on the website. |  | | |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 16:15 - Nov 12 with 1756 views | E20Jack |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 14:45 - Nov 12 by Uxbridge |
The dilemma is I don't entirely agree with that last sentence or at least it contradicts a lot of what I've said in the past. Stay and argue your case, or go to make a stand. Like I said, I'm torn on that one, although I usually use Monny and Clasey as my barometer on such things and their clarity makes me question the lack of mine.
What I mean is this... The Trust needs to represent a wide range of fans, and the board needs to reflect those differing views. I think there are some people on here that I think would be excellent additions to the board based on their contributions in various threads. However, they haven't to date taken the opportunity to apply, and I hope they do. Nothing more.
That's not a criticism of anyone. Lots of reasons why someone may not want to do it. Hell (that one's for you Chrissy) I reckon I might have a better idea of the reasons not to apply than anyone. It can be time consuming although, apart from the monthly board meetings, there's no real requirement to be in physical attendance and there are more than enough ways around that particular issue IMO (teleconferencing etc. ). It will affect your family. I guess the commitment is whatever you want it to be, and what sort of board member you'd want to be. Anyway, for those posting on here a couple of hours a day, I dare say it's no more commitment than what you're already doing.
I can't see there being mass resignations though, not least because I doubt half the board read this site. The board were also individually elected and many will feel they have every right to represent their views, which they also feel will represent other groups of fans. However there are vacancies now, and I'll be arguing that the opportunity should be taken to ensure that there is balance within the board.
I'll just take this opportunity to wish Matt well. Totally understand his reasons of course. He was an excellent board member who always pushed for the best interests of the fans above all else, and I think the board is significantly weaker without him. I'll miss him, but then we agreed more often than not (sorry Matt, I've probably killed your credibility there!). |
''Anyway, for those posting on here a couple of hours a day, I dare say it's no more commitment than what you're already doing.''
Speaking personally. I only ever tend to post in between work AT work. So I don't think posting on here is a barometer of free time. Discreetly posting on here during quiet times is a bit different to taking conference calls on work hours. |  |
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| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 16:17 - Nov 12 with 1747 views | E20Jack |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 15:12 - Nov 12 by MattG |
Just to clarify, I only resigned this morning - there hasn't been any conspiracy of silence.
On your other point, if the majority of the Board hold the same views that just happen to be different to mine, who is to say that they are wrong and I'm right? |
Why can't you say what view(s) you had that you felt were not echoed?
I am at a loss as to why there is such staunch secrecy? | |
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| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 16:22 - Nov 12 with 1709 views | DafyddHuw |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 15:35 - Nov 12 by Uxbridge |
Resignations have historically been announced in the monthly minutes. As Matt himself said, he only just did so.
I completely agree with the profiles of the board members being publicly available. More importantly, that is supposed to be in the works. The profile of those on the board not in the public eye needs to be higher. |
Do you mean a repeat of those bland profiles that candidates put forward at the last election that told us absolutely nothing? The ones that were so devoid of anything that I couldn't put a cross against anyone?
Because if that's the case then the whole exercise would be a totla waste of time.
I'm allowed to see a record of how my MP votes, so that I can judge whether she gets my backing. I know absolutely nothing about the intentions or aspirations for the club of any of the 15 (13 now?) board members. Why is that? |  | | |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 16:26 - Nov 12 with 1684 views | E20Jack |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 16:22 - Nov 12 by DafyddHuw |
Do you mean a repeat of those bland profiles that candidates put forward at the last election that told us absolutely nothing? The ones that were so devoid of anything that I couldn't put a cross against anyone?
Because if that's the case then the whole exercise would be a totla waste of time.
I'm allowed to see a record of how my MP votes, so that I can judge whether she gets my backing. I know absolutely nothing about the intentions or aspirations for the club of any of the 15 (13 now?) board members. Why is that? |
That would be mildly acceptable if they were as they should be - a vessel to carry our views and nothing more.
However a few, maybe all, of them seem to think it acceptable to carry weight behind their own personal views and garnering extra votes by influence and recommendation.
Now that is the case we need to know exactly what each and every board member sees the direction of the Trust and views on every detail of this conflict. Now their vote is essentially maybe 50 times more powerful than the average member due to the influence they insist on adding to any vote.
The fact Matt wont even say what he disagreed with is terrifying. There is clearly a big secret on what direction the people on the board wish to go in - and they all know if that is revealed there will be uproar. Hence the silence on every single front. Even their statements say nothing.
What is different between what they are doing to us and what the old board did to them? The silence and underhand tactics are shocking. [Post edited 12 Nov 2017 16:28]
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| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 16:46 - Nov 12 with 1630 views | Neath_Jack |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 15:35 - Nov 12 by Uxbridge |
Resignations have historically been announced in the monthly minutes. As Matt himself said, he only just did so.
I completely agree with the profiles of the board members being publicly available. More importantly, that is supposed to be in the works. The profile of those on the board not in the public eye needs to be higher. |
You should be a politician Ux 
Thanks for the part answer....
What about Ian, who resigned a month ago?
Where are we with the PA system, has it ever been raised? What did the club/Stadco say about it? That question have been raised for years but never answered as far as i know? What about the disabled parking prices? Someone said the DSA(?) were looking into it, why aren't the Trust feeding back on that? What about the sensory room question that's been asked on here many times?
The above are pretty irrelevant things in comparison to what is happening now, but if you can't get those addressed, even if it's to say we tried but the board said off you go, then what hope have we got on the real pressing issues?
It is like dealing with the North Korean government, it's all kept within the inner sanctum and we the plebs are thrown a few snippets of nothingness to tick a box of a released statement.
Do you honestly think the Trust is fulfilling it's role? Reading between the lines of Matts post, it seems you and him are on the same page, so i'd imagine that you are pretty pissed off with the way things are at the moment. We need to know about it, so we can vote accordingly, give the members the full picture and you may see a completely different voting pattern, you may not of course, but at least play with a straight bat. That's all we are asking for.
Cut the secrets and get the information out to us, the proper information, not the snippets about mobile phones and sub-groups. | |
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| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 18:05 - Nov 12 with 1518 views | Landore_Jack |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 11:38 - Nov 12 by MattG |
I was co-opted again in August but have just resigned my position.
I'm not going to go into details but, suffice to say, it's been a difficult last couple of months for some of us. |
Gutted to here that. I voted for you in the election. A new direction is badly needed. |  |
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| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 18:56 - Nov 12 with 1423 views | Uxbridge |
| Genuine question - from a Trust Member on 16:46 - Nov 12 by Neath_Jack |
You should be a politician Ux
Thanks for the part answer....
What about Ian, who resigned a month ago?
Where are we with the PA system, has it ever been raised? What did the club/Stadco say about it? That question have been raised for years but never answered as far as i know? What about the disabled parking prices? Someone said the DSA(?) were looking into it, why aren't the Trust feeding back on that? What about the sensory room question that's been asked on here many times?
The above are pretty irrelevant things in comparison to what is happening now, but if you can't get those addressed, even if it's to say we tried but the board said off you go, then what hope have we got on the real pressing issues?
It is like dealing with the North Korean government, it's all kept within the inner sanctum and we the plebs are thrown a few snippets of nothingness to tick a box of a released statement.
Do you honestly think the Trust is fulfilling it's role? Reading between the lines of Matts post, it seems you and him are on the same page, so i'd imagine that you are pretty pissed off with the way things are at the moment. We need to know about it, so we can vote accordingly, give the members the full picture and you may see a completely different voting pattern, you may not of course, but at least play with a straight bat. That's all we are asking for.
Cut the secrets and get the information out to us, the proper information, not the snippets about mobile phones and sub-groups. |
Ian resigned a couple of weeks ago. Actually so did Duncan. Both for personal business reasons to the best of anyone's knowledge, at least based on their comments, so no conspiracy there. As I said earlier, they've historically been announced as part of the monthly minutes which aren't out yet. So there are 3 vacancies there. In my opinion, these need to be advertised ASAP, and I hope that there is some interest from those opposed to the way things are progressing to fill those roles, with the need for balance being one of if not the most important criteria.
PA system? No will from the club to replace it. It's been raised plenty of times. Afraid I don't know about the DSA side.
Is the Trust fulfilling its role? In some ways yes, but badly in other ways. And yeah, annoyed is a fair comment. Frustrated is probably most accurate. Completely agree that full disclosure always needs to be given to the members, particularly when it relates to a vote from the members. That latter bit happened with regards to the sale, however clearly that hasn't happened in terms of things lately.
Anyway, I hope the energy that some are showing here to try and action some change actually takes hold. Not that there'd be any interest I suspect, but if anyone wants my help I'm happy to offer it. | |
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