| Brexit .... My thoughts... 11:07 - Jun 16 with 147478 views | JacksDad |
The one thing I am certain of re this vote is that no-one knows for sure what the repercussions economically will be if we pull out. If you listen to the experts it will be better if we stay in, however its all unconvincing. My issue is that after 10 years of Austerity, the services in this country have been cut to the bone, that is services that are needed by us all - not just Immigrants/benefit spongers. We are not in a position to afford the enormous gamble if it all goes t1ts up. I am taking my lead from Ray Winston and gambling responsibly and staying in. If we ever get to situation when everything is adequately funded and horrible 0 hours contracts were abolished ... then maybe it might be worth the risk to pull out. But to do it now is a massive gamble which we just cannot afford to lose. |  | | |  |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:00 - Jun 20 with 2801 views | TheBlob |
Is this the same smug sanctimonious Baroness Warsi that was found guilty of ministerial malpractice but still managed to hold onto her job in the teeth of opposition outrage?
A Cameron plant who isn't fooling anyone. |  |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:19 - Jun 20 with 2763 views | QPRDave |
Whatever the result is on Friday this country will never be the same as it was before.
Whoever loses will not accept the result, (not talking about the politicians, ) I'm taking about the people.
Something has happened during this ref, that has split this country in half, basically along the class divide between the working class and the others |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:36 - Jun 20 with 2736 views | R_from_afar |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 18:52 - Jun 19 by Discodroids |
Two things that have given me a dull nagging ache in the left bollock in the last couple of weeks that have made me dip into the well of hatred.
1, Sarah Woollaston the Tory Mp who switched from Leave to remain 2 week ago. Thats fine we can all change our minds , live and let live and all that caper and karaoke. What got on my chocis chewns pierced tit was when she said the main reason she changed her mind was when her dad was lying on a gurney being wheeled into theatre for a triple heart bypass . according to her he said..'Whatever you do, don't vote to leave the EU'?
Really? That was what was on his mind? Not 'Thank you for being such a great daughter and making me so proud', not 'I've left you everything, the will is with Sue, john and Mandy ' not 'Don't cry love, it'll be alright'.
No. It was supposedly 'Whatever you do, don't vote to leave the EU'?
what next , perhaps a new poster from the Tories this week..
"Vote Remain , Hardy.."
2. Boris Johnson going on about the size of Bananas under the harsh dictat of the EU to an appreciative audience , i havent been so embarrased Since i was forced to wear a crushed denim safari suit with flares on my first day at secondary school by my insane mother. It made us look like a load of simple simon cnts.
in addition, and by no means least, im finding it very hard to watch George osborne on the TV..Just take a look at him. A 1950's 'B' Movie Cruel Hollywood Roman Emperor , whose temperate lobe has been rotted clean through by grape, Bestiality and homo erotic love in his silk toga. Where does he get that barnet from Gary Numan ? [Post edited 19 Jun 2016 18:55]
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Wicked post! If you (not Disco, people in general) were a drowning man with Boris in a lifeboat on one side and George in another lifeboat directly opposite, you would simply expel all the air in your lungs and take a one way trip to Davy Jones' locker....
RFA |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:44 - Jun 20 with 2715 views | stumbleandfall |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:19 - Jun 20 by QPRDave |
Whatever the result is on Friday this country will never be the same as it was before.
Whoever loses will not accept the result, (not talking about the politicians, ) I'm taking about the people.
Something has happened during this ref, that has split this country in half, basically along the class divide between the working class and the others |
Agree very much with this. I think it is a similar divide that can be seen in the US with Republican - Democrat. In France with the National Front.
I don't think the divide is as you say, working class and others. It is more political perspective. And people polarizing their views in response to the reactions they are getting. It all adds up to a fractured society. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:45 - Jun 20 with 2711 views | R_from_afar |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:19 - Jun 20 by QPRDave |
Whatever the result is on Friday this country will never be the same as it was before.
Whoever loses will not accept the result, (not talking about the politicians, ) I'm taking about the people.
Something has happened during this ref, that has split this country in half, basically along the class divide between the working class and the others |
Good point and there is also a split based on age: younger people wanting to remain, older people wanting to leave.
Deep joy. This referendum makes the current government's "omnishambles" from a few years back look like a bit of smudged lipstick.
RFA | |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:47 - Jun 20 with 2698 views | Brightonhoop |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:19 - Jun 20 by QPRDave |
Whatever the result is on Friday this country will never be the same as it was before.
Whoever loses will not accept the result, (not talking about the politicians, ) I'm taking about the people.
Something has happened during this ref, that has split this country in half, basically along the class divide between the working class and the others |
Agree with that Dave, it will take a long time to heal the scars whatever the outcome.
The murder of Jo Cox was a game changer. Febrile days ahead after the election. |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:52 - Jun 20 with 2682 views | QPRDave |
We will vote remain I think that is obvious. Btw.
Not my personal choice | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:54 - Jun 20 with 2674 views | TheBlob |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:19 - Jun 20 by QPRDave |
Whatever the result is on Friday this country will never be the same as it was before.
Whoever loses will not accept the result, (not talking about the politicians, ) I'm taking about the people.
Something has happened during this ref, that has split this country in half, basically along the class divide between the working class and the others |
It's also divided along age lines as well.There just seems to be no common ground in all of this. | |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 14:09 - Jun 20 with 2634 views | DeepcutHoop |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:19 - Jun 20 by QPRDave |
Whatever the result is on Friday this country will never be the same as it was before.
Whoever loses will not accept the result, (not talking about the politicians, ) I'm taking about the people.
Something has happened during this ref, that has split this country in half, basically along the class divide between the working class and the others |
There's more to it than a class thing IMO but otherwise that's spot on.
It's been poisonous. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 14:21 - Jun 20 with 2614 views | martincook |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:23 - Jun 20 by Phildo |
I saw this yesterday for the first time although I gather it has been floating around for sometime. I remember someone posting about Farage's schoolday NF association on here a few months ago. I would not really want to be judged by what i thought when i was 16 but it is interesting nevertheless:
https://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/169454715/Nigel-Farage-1981-school-letter#full
I started out edging towards leave but have moved firmly back to remain as it has gone on. My Mrs is a tax lawyer and she reports that the super rich are breaking heavily for leave as they think a UK government is easier to control than the EU. I don't particularly like the EU myself (particularly the democratic deficit) but i do think it is a case of better the devil you know for me.
Also i don't want to be on the same side as Nigel... |
I don't want to be on the same side as all sorts of people but in the circumstances, at least until Thursday evening, I have to be. You may know that the super-rich are going for leave but the extra super-rich corporations are in favour of staying and it's not too hard to see why.
An element of democratic subversion which has increased substantially, is the lobbying of governing institutions and individuals by pressure groups and corporations who would otherwise be hampered in achieving their objectives, which are not necessarily in the common interest. If the electorate won't vote for it, or the government doesn't like the sound of it, have a word in the ear of someone you know near the top. Enter and leave by the back door. Discuss matters privately. There's no need to worry about ethics or legality, it's simply an exchange of views behind closed doors. Be ruthless in pursuing your objective. You can afford to be charming, knowing that off the record you are free to cheat, blackmail and bribe as necessary. Stay clever: the dirtier the deal, the greater the power you may have in future over those you are lobbying today. If you are not close enough to power to have this type of access, take a longer route by lobbying officially and a bit more openly, perhaps through a specialist company with a respectable name and a lot of front, operated and staffed by those who have passed through the interconnecting revolving door from the EU's institutions of governance. The object of this influence is to increase profit and power, to ensure that the interests of those who have none are diminished to the benefit of your own. In the end, they must have none, while you gather all of it. Sometimes you have to pay out today for a higher return tomorrow. So be it.
If power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely, it might also be said that small scale corruption damages whereas large scale corruption devastates. How much larger than the EU does the organisation have to be before the potential for devastating corruption arises? We do not live in an ideal world, so we try to discourage corruption by legislation and other means. The European Union's approach to this problem raises some questions.
As we might expect, there are regulations. Nothing can go wrong because everything is written down, translated into 24 languages and written down again. "Transparency" is everywhere, we have nothing to fear. That part of the Treaty of Lisbon (2009) which deals with lobbying is so obscured by the tyre prints of the neo-liberal gas guzzler you can hardly read the print. We are no longer to worry about lobbying. The words "lobbying" and "lobbyist" have been replaced with the terms "European interest representation" and "European interest representative". Their benevolent engagement is part of a new "participatory democracy" within the European Union but whereas this term implies some element of democratic enrichment, the Treaty of Lisbon legislates in quite the opposite direction. George Orwell, who experienced a form of participatory democracy during the Spanish Civil War and approved of it, also foresaw the deterioration of the world and the language he knew. It hadn't happened by 1984 but it is now well under way. Political lobbying is formally legitimised in the Lisbon treaty and the "rights" of those engaged in it are protected. Note that they are protected from us, it is not we who are protected from them. Lobbying is a billion-euro industry in Brussels. According to Corporate Europe Observatory, a watchdog campaigning for greater transparency, by 2014 there were at least 30,000 lobbyists (European interest representatives) in Brussels. They may sign a transparency register run by the European Parliament and Commission or they may not - it is not mandatory. The biggest operators agitate for the biggest industries with the most to gain or lose from European legislation - laws and regulations which might otherwise be drafted exclusively to improve the quality of our lives.
Lobbying is a big problem in the UK but here, we have a vote and if we organise ourselves properly, we can vote corrupt governments out. In the EU, the corrupting influence of lobbying is massive and none of us has a vote to do anything about it. On Thursday we can begin to say goodbye to Jean-Claude Juncker and his Brussels cesspit. And for those in the Super Rich Club in Britain, we should start sending this message: we know what you're up to and we're coming after you. |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 14:27 - Jun 20 with 2589 views | Phildo |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:52 - Jun 20 by essextaxiboy |
Well you dont get much more super rich than Goldman Sachs .
If you dont want to be on the side of Farage then you place yourself with Blair and Mandelson .
Wait for the Chilcot report to see to see whether you backed a gob on a stick, or a war criminal that has had a few mil fron the EU already [Post edited 20 Jun 2016 12:53]
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Good point would be nice to see Blair and his mate Campbell on trial for war crimes and their mate Mandy finally tugged for that mortgage fraud he committed.
I do worry about the Ruskies too atm - not sure this is the time for Europe to be splintering with Putin on maneuvers. I have no doubt he was behind a lot of that stuff in France, |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 14:33 - Jun 20 with 2580 views | derbyhoop |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:23 - Jun 20 by Phildo |
I saw this yesterday for the first time although I gather it has been floating around for sometime. I remember someone posting about Farage's schoolday NF association on here a few months ago. I would not really want to be judged by what i thought when i was 16 but it is interesting nevertheless:
https://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/169454715/Nigel-Farage-1981-school-letter#full
I started out edging towards leave but have moved firmly back to remain as it has gone on. My Mrs is a tax lawyer and she reports that the super rich are breaking heavily for leave as they think a UK government is easier to control than the EU. I don't particularly like the EU myself (particularly the democratic deficit) but i do think it is a case of better the devil you know for me.
Also i don't want to be on the same side as Nigel... |
Is that why the Murdoch press want out? Rupert has said that when he wants something from Westminster, they agree to it. If he wants something from Brussels, they don't.
It's simplistic to say there is a division between young and old. I'm 63 and have already voted to Remain. But, I am the son of economic migrants (parents came from Ireland in the 40s), I have lived and worked in the EU, I can speak reasonable French and have a cottage in rural France, where I'm currently living. I don't believe immigration should be anywhere near as big an issue as the threat of an economic shock. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 15:01 - Jun 20 with 2538 views | cyprusmel |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 14:27 - Jun 20 by Phildo |
Good point would be nice to see Blair and his mate Campbell on trial for war crimes and their mate Mandy finally tugged for that mortgage fraud he committed.
I do worry about the Ruskies too atm - not sure this is the time for Europe to be splintering with Putin on maneuvers. I have no doubt he was behind a lot of that stuff in France, |
In my opinion the EU has helped to cause the problems with Russia if they had not poked their nose into Ukraine and said this way to the promised land things just might be better between Europe and Russia.
Also some people think that the EU promotes peace well tell that to the Russians and Ukranians that have died in the fighting between the two countries. The EU is trying to coerce all countries into a United States of Europe.
Why would you invite Turkey to join when 97% of their land mass is in Asia not Europe. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 15:04 - Jun 20 with 2521 views | hopphoops |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:23 - Jun 20 by Phildo |
I saw this yesterday for the first time although I gather it has been floating around for sometime. I remember someone posting about Farage's schoolday NF association on here a few months ago. I would not really want to be judged by what i thought when i was 16 but it is interesting nevertheless:
https://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/169454715/Nigel-Farage-1981-school-letter#full
I started out edging towards leave but have moved firmly back to remain as it has gone on. My Mrs is a tax lawyer and she reports that the super rich are breaking heavily for leave as they think a UK government is easier to control than the EU. I don't particularly like the EU myself (particularly the democratic deficit) but i do think it is a case of better the devil you know for me.
Also i don't want to be on the same side as Nigel... |
I've avoided adding to the debate as i don't live in the UK so my thoughts are immaterial. However this link does confirm the wise man's adage, that South London is full of sh its. |  |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 15:05 - Jun 20 with 2516 views | TheBlob |
I think there's some confusion with the EU and NATO here. | |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 08:09 - Jun 21 with 2348 views | martincook |
Westy75: in what way could this article be called well-balanced? It seems to ring with the same half-truth, dismissal of rational argument, limp take on democracy and general unpleasantness which the author accuses Brexiters of. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 08:14 - Jun 21 with 2342 views | essextaxiboy |
I read all of it
Its not balanced , its a rehash of every soundbite out there over the last week .
Polly Toynbee is a talker , she has never had to turn a dollar , take a risk and back herself to succeed .
Instead she has made a career of stroking her chin and commenting on the efforts of others .
To be a fly on the wall at Pollys canape party on Thursday night if we vote out .
A fck8ng whinging parasite ...IMO |  | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 08:19 - Jun 21 with 2337 views | Brightonhoop |
Toynbee is the worst type of journalist, full of hypocrisy at best and bile that wouldn't be amiss in the Daily Mail, she's awful. Whilst masquerading as an intellectual, committed to nothing but herself. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 08:26 - Jun 21 with 2317 views | martincook |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 08:14 - Jun 21 by essextaxiboy |
I read all of it
Its not balanced , its a rehash of every soundbite out there over the last week .
Polly Toynbee is a talker , she has never had to turn a dollar , take a risk and back herself to succeed .
Instead she has made a career of stroking her chin and commenting on the efforts of others .
To be a fly on the wall at Pollys canape party on Thursday night if we vote out .
A fck8ng whinging parasite ...IMO |
Come on Essex, stop sitting on the fence, tell us what you really think. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 08:30 - Jun 21 with 1939 views | martincook |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 08:19 - Jun 21 by Brightonhoop |
Toynbee is the worst type of journalist, full of hypocrisy at best and bile that wouldn't be amiss in the Daily Mail, she's awful. Whilst masquerading as an intellectual, committed to nothing but herself. |
The expression "embittered old Blair-ite" has been used to describe quite a few of these journalists - Jonathan Freedland is another one. | | | |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 08:46 - Jun 21 with 1907 views | Mytch_QPR |
Anyone still wavering before Thurs? - take a bit of time to listen to this:
Build bridges, not walls. |  |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 08:56 - Jun 21 with 1887 views | Lblock |
I remain a steadfast LEAVE voter
The EU was supposed to be about "free" trade between nine countries at the outset
It's now a trough and has evolved into some faceless law making dictat with far more problems than solutions
Get OUT whilst we can or be brought down like Greece or accept being a federal satellite nation for Germany's Europe |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 09:25 - Jun 21 with 1864 views | Mytch_QPR |
| Brexit .... My thoughts... on 08:56 - Jun 21 by Lblock |
I remain a steadfast LEAVE voter
The EU was supposed to be about "free" trade between nine countries at the outset
It's now a trough and has evolved into some faceless law making dictat with far more problems than solutions
Get OUT whilst we can or be brought down like Greece or accept being a federal satellite nation for Germany's Europe |
Greece had the option to leave - they had a referendum before the last big bailout. They chose to borrow heavily, the EU didn't force them to. We would still have sovereign powers - I don't understand why people keep bringing Greece up.
Have a look at my previous post on this thread and take some time to listen, then by all means vote leave. | |
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