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QPR Finances released on 13:38 - Feb 28 by Northernr
You cut the wage bill. We overpay. Macauley Bonne is not an isolated case.
197 people earning £27m a year is absolutely killing us. It's not transfer fees, it's wages. We've let it creep up again since Eze left having got it below £20m p/a which was manageable under FFP. If the club was paying salaries in line with its income we'd probably be in League One, but you've certainly got to take £10m off where it is now. Looking at the state of the team, can you take £10m of salary off that and survive? Again, lots of other clubs doing just fine paying less, but would/could we?
It's a very simplistic way of looking at it from me but I just think as a club we need to do everything better
Bringing in revenue we do nowhere near enough to get people in the door, nowhere near enough to have good food and drink options and nowhere near enough to hire staff who can pour a drink.
Trying to buy a ticket to get in is laughable and has been for years, that ticketing website is just not fit for purpose.
All of that falls on Lee Hoos, he needs to do much better or be replaced by someone else.
On the playing side we spend far too much on the academy, we've gone from one extreme to the other so unless it produces first team players it's white elephant. We pay Chris Ramsey very good money to put the cones out, I've lost track of the number of jobs he's had now.
Our recruitment isn't good enough, we spend far too much on players not good enough and the more you get wrong the bigger the hole you fall into. That needs to be a million times better and that falls on Les Ferdinand who needs to be much better or be replaced.
I could go on but it's all quite depressing
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QPR Finances released on 14:43 - Feb 28 with 2842 views
It's a very simplistic way of looking at it from me but I just think as a club we need to do everything better
Bringing in revenue we do nowhere near enough to get people in the door, nowhere near enough to have good food and drink options and nowhere near enough to hire staff who can pour a drink.
Trying to buy a ticket to get in is laughable and has been for years, that ticketing website is just not fit for purpose.
All of that falls on Lee Hoos, he needs to do much better or be replaced by someone else.
On the playing side we spend far too much on the academy, we've gone from one extreme to the other so unless it produces first team players it's white elephant. We pay Chris Ramsey very good money to put the cones out, I've lost track of the number of jobs he's had now.
Our recruitment isn't good enough, we spend far too much on players not good enough and the more you get wrong the bigger the hole you fall into. That needs to be a million times better and that falls on Les Ferdinand who needs to be much better or be replaced.
I could go on but it's all quite depressing
Not a lot to disagree with there.
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QPR Finances released on 14:44 - Feb 28 with 2835 views
Yes you are right, my mistake apologies. So he has till end of this season, and next. Which is a concern. As the poster says below, maybe they will try for an early settlement.
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QPR Finances released on 14:48 - Feb 28 with 2801 views
Simply fine each player £10 each time they kick a ball sideways or backwards. I reckon that within 3 weeks we'd have made enough to buy that man mountain at Man City out of all the money we'd be making.
QPR Finances released on 14:34 - Feb 28 by CamberleyR
Johansen's contract runs until June 2024 although I could see the club negotiating a settlement this summer to get him off the books early.
True it's going to be very tricky getting him off the wage bill without having to pay a small fortune in compensation. These figures have not come as any shock to the club they have been working on them for weeks before submission, Hoos went on record a couple of years ago saying that they do three year financial projections. I remember back to the 4 year plan when Bhatia came in and got Saksena to run the finances, he's no fool ( believe it or not ) a budget was set and restrictions were put in place on transfers and wages, I'm sure they will be doing exactly the same again.
As a club we need to be more ruthless on releasing players, if the player doesn't look like he will make the first team after say the age of 21, and the coaches must have a good idea, then they have to be released, we've got too many players in that category and sadly it's a ruthless business.
[Post edited 28 Feb 2023 14:53]
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QPR Finances released on 14:51 - Feb 28 with 2777 views
QPR Finances released on 13:44 - Feb 28 by Northernr
I'm not sure there's a lot of confusion at all, everything you've said there is exactly right. Presently within the limits because of Eze, but you don't stay in the limits for long if you lose £2m a month and you don't have another Eze soon.
Do we get anything if Eze gets sold?
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QPR Finances released on 14:53 - Feb 28 with 2762 views
I was joking before, but if sale or promotion is our only option, and our sellable assets are not where we would like to be value-wise, why don't we just go for for it. Keep them, spend a bit of dough and go for promotion or bust?
QPR Finances released on 14:38 - Feb 28 by Northernr
I'd have more faith and optimism in these predictions if you got the contract lengths correct
The good news is much of that intake from last summer that bumped the wage bill up have been moved on - Moses, Austin, Gray, Sanderson, McCallum, De Wijs, a million goalkeepers...
However, again, what we've done this season will not have been cheap. We basically bent over and spread our cheeks for any Villa player we could get, God knows what deal we've got Tim on for instance. Roberts, Jake Clarke-Salter, Balogun... these will be significant salaries we've added.
This post has been edited by an administrator
I spend a lot of time analysing the accounts and simplifying - because otherwise, it quickly runs away with itself. As is happening on this very thread.
The contract length for Johansen was an honest mistake, so I found your comment a little bit disappointing. The prediction is not really a prediction, it pretty obvious. The wage bill went up primarily because of Austin, Johansen and Gray. There were other incomings, yes, but there were also outgoings, so those players wages are largely cancelled out. The main crux, if not all of the +£4m, was Austin, Johansen and Gray. Getting 2 out of 3 of those off the wage bill, is a significant dent.
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QPR Finances released on 15:04 - Feb 28 with 2682 views
QPR Finances released on 14:38 - Feb 28 by Northernr
I'd have more faith and optimism in these predictions if you got the contract lengths correct
The good news is much of that intake from last summer that bumped the wage bill up have been moved on - Moses, Austin, Gray, Sanderson, McCallum, De Wijs, a million goalkeepers...
However, again, what we've done this season will not have been cheap. We basically bent over and spread our cheeks for any Villa player we could get, God knows what deal we've got Tim on for instance. Roberts, Jake Clarke-Salter, Balogun... these will be significant salaries we've added.
This post has been edited by an administrator
Ahh yes, The goalkeepers..... Absolute and utter madness to bring in additional keepers when we were in this financial state.
And let's not forget that we are having to spend, I suspect, at least 2 million on that prolific player Taylor Richards....
QPR Finances released on 14:58 - Feb 28 by Monkey_Roots
I was joking before, but if sale or promotion is our only option, and our sellable assets are not where we would like to be value-wise, why don't we just go for for it. Keep them, spend a bit of dough and go for promotion or bust?
It looks like we're f*cked anyway.
Well a sale or promotion solves the problem quickly, but there is a third option as said above which is to take a big chunk off that wage bill quickly.
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QPR Finances released on 15:12 - Feb 28 with 2616 views
Yes you are right, my mistake apologies. So he has till end of this season, and next. Which is a concern. As the poster says below, maybe they will try for an early settlement.
He is one you could probably sell on, not for much money but he's still a decent player and will have people interested
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QPR Finances released on 15:15 - Feb 28 with 2601 views
QPR Finances released on 15:04 - Feb 28 by Northernr
Well a sale or promotion solves the problem quickly, but there is a third option as said above which is to take a big chunk off that wage bill quickly.
How do you do that? Hard given UK employment law. You just bring cost forward, maybe reduce the total a little, but it hits earlier and therefore hits rolling periods now.
I still think with the disallowable costs and the size of the breach now and even next season, when we release 22/23 season accounts, we’ll be okay with the EFL…maybe. But next season’s accounts, released in spring 2025 will be the problem. We’ll be MILES over FFP. We’d have to break even to get close to the rolling 3 year period. That means lots of revenue from player sales on top of a huge reduction to the wage bill this summer. Let’s face it, we’re not getting Eze money for anyone any time soon. Can’t see is achieving the delta we need to bridge. So expect a big points deduction in the summer of 2025 ahead of the 2025/26 season. If we’ve had a fire sale and get relegated this season or next season, we’ll start in League 1 with that points deduction in the 2025/26 season.
Expect anyone and everyone to be sold this summer (perhaps why some players are phoning it in?) and expect everyone else to be let go who we can let go.
Last season was the shot at promotion. It was the gamble. 29m wage bill. Higher than it has been since about 17/18, I’d think.
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QPR Finances released on 15:18 - Feb 28 with 2582 views
QPR Finances released on 15:15 - Feb 28 by Hunterhoop
How do you do that? Hard given UK employment law. You just bring cost forward, maybe reduce the total a little, but it hits earlier and therefore hits rolling periods now.
I still think with the disallowable costs and the size of the breach now and even next season, when we release 22/23 season accounts, we’ll be okay with the EFL…maybe. But next season’s accounts, released in spring 2025 will be the problem. We’ll be MILES over FFP. We’d have to break even to get close to the rolling 3 year period. That means lots of revenue from player sales on top of a huge reduction to the wage bill this summer. Let’s face it, we’re not getting Eze money for anyone any time soon. Can’t see is achieving the delta we need to bridge. So expect a big points deduction in the summer of 2025 ahead of the 2025/26 season. If we’ve had a fire sale and get relegated this season or next season, we’ll start in League 1 with that points deduction in the 2025/26 season.
Expect anyone and everyone to be sold this summer (perhaps why some players are phoning it in?) and expect everyone else to be let go who we can let go.
Last season was the shot at promotion. It was the gamble. 29m wage bill. Higher than it has been since about 17/18, I’d think.
Yeh, I'm basically with you mate.
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QPR Finances released on 15:19 - Feb 28 with 2575 views
We've been trying to recruit as far as possible, players who are 'comfortable on the ball'. Maybe those players demand higher wages. With GA at the helm, it's possible we will recruit cheaper, less skilful but more aggressive and dynamic personnel.
Lots of players out of contract, let most of them leave. As John Eustace reportedly said when MW arrived about the previous lot, 'they are used to losing'
Replace with affordable players who fit GA's plans.
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QPR Finances released on 15:20 - Feb 28 with 2570 views
QPR Finances released on 15:15 - Feb 28 by Hunterhoop
How do you do that? Hard given UK employment law. You just bring cost forward, maybe reduce the total a little, but it hits earlier and therefore hits rolling periods now.
I still think with the disallowable costs and the size of the breach now and even next season, when we release 22/23 season accounts, we’ll be okay with the EFL…maybe. But next season’s accounts, released in spring 2025 will be the problem. We’ll be MILES over FFP. We’d have to break even to get close to the rolling 3 year period. That means lots of revenue from player sales on top of a huge reduction to the wage bill this summer. Let’s face it, we’re not getting Eze money for anyone any time soon. Can’t see is achieving the delta we need to bridge. So expect a big points deduction in the summer of 2025 ahead of the 2025/26 season. If we’ve had a fire sale and get relegated this season or next season, we’ll start in League 1 with that points deduction in the 2025/26 season.
Expect anyone and everyone to be sold this summer (perhaps why some players are phoning it in?) and expect everyone else to be let go who we can let go.
Last season was the shot at promotion. It was the gamble. 29m wage bill. Higher than it has been since about 17/18, I’d think.
Horrific.
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QPR Finances released on 15:26 - Feb 28 with 2512 views
QPR Finances released on 15:19 - Feb 28 by francisbowles
We've been trying to recruit as far as possible, players who are 'comfortable on the ball'. Maybe those players demand higher wages. With GA at the helm, it's possible we will recruit cheaper, less skilful but more aggressive and dynamic personnel.
Lots of players out of contract, let most of them leave. As John Eustace reportedly said when MW arrived about the previous lot, 'they are used to losing'
Replace with affordable players who fit GA's plans.
I've said this in other posts and on Twitter too. Our current playing style does not suit someone with a budget of ours. What you end up with are players who are relatively fresh out of an academy, players that are past it or players that are injury prone.
Bring back the good old days with a first team and the reserve team. With reserve players who could genuinely step up if required.
QPR Finances released on 15:15 - Feb 28 by Hunterhoop
How do you do that? Hard given UK employment law. You just bring cost forward, maybe reduce the total a little, but it hits earlier and therefore hits rolling periods now.
I still think with the disallowable costs and the size of the breach now and even next season, when we release 22/23 season accounts, we’ll be okay with the EFL…maybe. But next season’s accounts, released in spring 2025 will be the problem. We’ll be MILES over FFP. We’d have to break even to get close to the rolling 3 year period. That means lots of revenue from player sales on top of a huge reduction to the wage bill this summer. Let’s face it, we’re not getting Eze money for anyone any time soon. Can’t see is achieving the delta we need to bridge. So expect a big points deduction in the summer of 2025 ahead of the 2025/26 season. If we’ve had a fire sale and get relegated this season or next season, we’ll start in League 1 with that points deduction in the 2025/26 season.
Expect anyone and everyone to be sold this summer (perhaps why some players are phoning it in?) and expect everyone else to be let go who we can let go.
Last season was the shot at promotion. It was the gamble. 29m wage bill. Higher than it has been since about 17/18, I’d think.
Will our losses for this season be as big given the wage bill was cut last summer? Likely to have increased Tv revenue next season as well
I wouldn't be surprised to see the rules change over the year anyway, it's not sustainable like this and although I agree we could well face a points deduction it does seem to take the EFL on average another year before they actually do anything. It's bleak but not impossible to get out of , the Eze sale showed you only really need to get one right to dig you out of a hole. They have been very unlucky in Willock falling apart the way he has and Dickie as well as both looked very sellable assets
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QPR Finances released on 15:38 - Feb 28 with 2436 views
QPR Finances released on 06:42 - Feb 28 by Hunterhoop
And therein shows the reality of how much Warburton was backed by in his final year. No major sale and signings on big salaries. The year before the year we accounted for some/most of the Eze sale. Last season we lost that sake money and 3m more extra to 2021.
A 24m loss a season is not sustainable in FFP. Can anyone remember what we lost in the season ending 2020? 2021 and 2022 together is 28.8m, so hope it was less than 10m. If it wasn’t we’ve breached slightly. If it was, we somehow need to only lose 10m this season. Given we’ve not sold anyone, no idea how we achieve that. We won’t.
Hopefully SimonD can explain how some of these losses are excluded from FFP calcs. Otherwise we look like we’re about to breach FFP either now (slightly) or in one year’s time. And we’re going to be miles over come the end of next season (as the 4m loss season drops out of the rolling period). So come Feb/March 2025 when we announce 2024 season we will get a points deduction. Unless we have a fire sale this summer and play children in 2023/24 season which will get us relegated anyway.
I’m not sure there is a way out of avoiding a points deduction. A 24m loss in one season is just unmanageable in FFP. Shouldn’t have given the manager what he wanted unless it got us up. Gambled and lost.
I dont think we should be blaming Warburton for our current financial mess. We're not talking Harry Redknapp levels here., and wasn't Austin a Tony Fernandes addition? Who was leaning on Warburton for a promotion push? Didn't we sell Eze on Warburtons watch? Theres a lot of people involved at QPR that are accountable for the financial mess and I'm not saying Warburton hasn't played his part but imo fingers should be pointed elsewhere.
Occasional providers of half decent House music.
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QPR Finances released on 15:42 - Feb 28 with 2410 views
QPR Finances released on 15:15 - Feb 28 by Hunterhoop
How do you do that? Hard given UK employment law. You just bring cost forward, maybe reduce the total a little, but it hits earlier and therefore hits rolling periods now.
I still think with the disallowable costs and the size of the breach now and even next season, when we release 22/23 season accounts, we’ll be okay with the EFL…maybe. But next season’s accounts, released in spring 2025 will be the problem. We’ll be MILES over FFP. We’d have to break even to get close to the rolling 3 year period. That means lots of revenue from player sales on top of a huge reduction to the wage bill this summer. Let’s face it, we’re not getting Eze money for anyone any time soon. Can’t see is achieving the delta we need to bridge. So expect a big points deduction in the summer of 2025 ahead of the 2025/26 season. If we’ve had a fire sale and get relegated this season or next season, we’ll start in League 1 with that points deduction in the 2025/26 season.
Expect anyone and everyone to be sold this summer (perhaps why some players are phoning it in?) and expect everyone else to be let go who we can let go.
Last season was the shot at promotion. It was the gamble. 29m wage bill. Higher than it has been since about 17/18, I’d think.
The accounts show that there are two main cost bases for the club; - wage costs - stadium-related costs
The stadium is a constant cost at around 10m per annum. It doesn't go up, and it doesn't go down. It's a given. Wages are a variable cost, and go up and down. They are the problem (and solution).
The key here is season 19/20, post-parachute season, where had a total wage bill of £21.3m, with £18.3m revenue. This amounted to -3m deficit, and with extra -10m cost for stadium = £13m operating loss. (for simplification purposes, and no player ins/outs).
The key point here, and I can't emphasise this enough, is that the 13m annual loss figure is the benchmark for falling within FFP allowance, where NO PLAYER SALES are needed. A -13m loss x 3 seasons rolling = 39m allowable FFP loss.
This is the wage bill the club will be aiming for - where they are not reliant on player sales (which will be a bonus, but not a necessity).
They have done it before - only recently - and will do it again. Everything else - widespread player sales, and worse, points deductions in the coming seasons, is pure conjecture!
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QPR Finances released on 15:43 - Feb 28 with 2396 views
Whilst we can’t be sure, I have a feeling that when the new regulations are finally agreed on, the old slate regarding FFP at £39m will be wiped clean and everyone will start from day zero on whatever the new regs are.
I suspect half the division is about to breach the old regulations and it’s clearly not working when you get to those kind of numbers. The standard of football is also slipping and it’s mostly to do with the restrictions of existing levels of FFP.
That said, the club needs to take a serious look at the number of playing and coaching staff and where it doesn’t pay get rid.
It's an interesting post are there any genuine indications that the not fit for purpose current FFP regulations are going to have a thorough review in the next 18 months, it's potentially a get out of jail free card for us, if it happens I can't see them making them more stringent, too many clubs struggling already. Agree about the playing staff numbers, unfortunately we have to be more ruthless and release players earlier rather than keeping them on the books and continually looking for loans.
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QPR Finances released on 15:45 - Feb 28 with 2378 views
I dont think we should be blaming Warburton for our current financial mess. We're not talking Harry Redknapp levels here., and wasn't Austin a Tony Fernandes addition? Who was leaning on Warburton for a promotion push? Didn't we sell Eze on Warburtons watch? Theres a lot of people involved at QPR that are accountable for the financial mess and I'm not saying Warburton hasn't played his part but imo fingers should be pointed elsewhere.
I’m not blaming Warbuton for the financial mess. I’m just pointing out how much financial backing he was given (relative to our income and other managers). The club spent far too much supporting him. Last season was the shot at promotion and he missed its. Whether it was a fair and achievable target is an entirely different question.
It wouldn’t surprise me if the over investment last season was down to the owners wanting to “give it a go” and doing so over Hoos’ head, hence is seemingly despondent, cynical tone in recent interviews. Perhaps also why Amit didn’t mention the impending accounts and what they’d show.
We were irresponsible last year. If we didn’t go up, we absolutely had to sell in the next 12 months. Now we find ourselves in a position where our player valuations are significantly depreciated due to form or injury and we have sold no one; we’ve actually been paying players to leave again.
If there is one man for the job of making a silk purse’s from a sow’s ear, it’s Ainsworth though.
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QPR Finances released on 15:49 - Feb 28 with 2346 views
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