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Who is renewing trust membership? on 09:10 - Aug 19 by NOTRAC
A question for Lisa and Shaky.You both believed in legal action, possibly Lisa with a view to extracting a better deal along the way. Why? What would legal action, with all its uncertainties have given the Trust which the present deal does not.
+£15 million and the chance to play a leading role when Levn exits, which as I said a few weeks ago could well come by the end of the season.
Who is renewing trust membership? on 09:00 - Aug 19 by Shaky
That right, the second director/observer distinction is irrelevant due to the overwhelming voting advantage.
What's interesting about it is I distinctly recall Jenkins commenting when news of the takeover first broke that the the Trust would get a second directorship and basically be satisfied with that.
As with siggy, Levin's hardball negotiation tactics improved on that, but Jenkins had clearly correctly read the Trust board's main motivation; vanity.
This is the worrying part and I think you're right.
They seem more interested in the small celebrity than the good of the famous old institution.
And that's a sad thought to deal with.
By the way, what's happened with the 2 years and stand down rule/ethos?
Godden's time must be up, Phil long ago and Stu half way through a very inauspicious first year?
Chaps, do the right thing and don't put yourselves up for re-election because you're starting to take the mickey now.,
* BOX OFFICE POST ABOVE* TM
I am the resurrection and i am the light. I couldn’t ever bring myself to hate you as i’d like
Who is renewing trust membership? on 09:14 - Aug 19 by MattG
Alternatively, it could be seen that, regardless of the current voting situation, there is some benefit to a second voice (and a second pair of eyes / ears) in the Boardroom, even if only from a "check and balance" perspective.
Except the balance component is missing, since the Trust has no levers of control whatsoever.
Huw J always claimed he would put his side of the story forward in relation to the sale. Perhaps he will do it in his programme notes today vs Man U.
As for second trust director on the board - could the Americans have agreed to this? If they have the power to give a second directorship to the Trust but have blocked it then it says it all about what they think of the Trust.
Finally, do the Trust have any knowledge of who the investors are ?
[Post edited 19 Aug 2017 9:22]
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Who is renewing trust membership? on 09:21 - Aug 19 with 1500 views
Who is renewing trust membership? on 09:14 - Aug 19 by MattG
Alternatively, it could be seen that, regardless of the current voting situation, there is some benefit to a second voice (and a second pair of eyes / ears) in the Boardroom, even if only from a "check and balance" perspective.
But the Americans didn't even reduce the ticket prices for a friendly so if there's no influence then what's the point in the extra eyes and ears (or any eyes and ears)?
The trust have become an organisation with no influence and one that's too afraid of kicking up a stink. A pointless one
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Who is renewing trust membership? on 09:28 - Aug 19 with 1472 views
Who is renewing trust membership? on 09:17 - Aug 19 by Shaky
Except the balance component is missing, since the Trust has no levers of control whatsoever.
Directly in terms of votes, I agree.
Indirectly, if something happened that needed to be publicised (and I await pelters for even daring to mention that), it would be more difficult for others to try and dismiss two people making the same point rather than a lone voice.
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Who is renewing trust membership? on 09:29 - Aug 19 with 1469 views
Who is renewing trust membership? on 09:13 - Aug 19 by Shaky
The other point worth making is that the verdict here was largely a foregone conclusion.
The electorate had already undergone a process of natural selection whereby supporters who were actually paying attention were aware of the abuses and incompetence of the Trust board and had long since voted with their feet in disgust.
With a few notable exceptions like herefordjack and joebradshaw that leaves a group of voters who i am sorry to say are too fcuking stupid to be in charge of an investment worth +£20 million.
Maybe the morons will get lucky again; that doesn't change the underlying dynamic, however.
[Post edited 19 Aug 2017 9:14]
Glad your back shaky and spot on about the voters.
""Although I cannot promise or predict the future, I can guarantee one thing - the current board of directors will always fight, as we have done over the last 12 years, to work together as one with the Supporters Trust to make 100% sure that Swansea City football club remains the number one priority in all our thoughts and in every decision we make."
To me, it seems like an organisation in an extreme state of denial. Constantly kidding themselves of their own presence and influence. The result of the Trusts "lines of communication" are no different to Joe Bloggs on the street bumping into Levien and saying "ticket prices are too high mate". The outcome is surely the same?
That was so frustrating regarding the communication and influence argument, there just isnt any. Having a meeting and being ignored is no different to any non shareholding party writing a letter and being ignored. Yet we have now given up all our rights and potentially squandered £10m+ to be ignored in person. The directorship as I have said before, is an expensive season ticket. Thats it.
Who is renewing trust membership? on 09:15 - Aug 19 by Shaky
+£15 million and the chance to play a leading role when Levn exits, which as I said a few weeks ago could well come by the end of the season.
You said yourself that it could take two years to get a legal decision.If the Americans sold at the end of the season, the only difference would be that the Trust would have 5% less shares, which would mean very little in the grand scheme of things.But they would have £5m in the bank, which is guaranteed and is a very useful sum of money for the future.
Who is renewing trust membership? on 08:25 - Aug 19 by MattG
I'm not much bothered about Dineen either but it was you that raised the "demand" about no Shareholder with <5% being on the Board. Dineen was put back on the Board in November, the Trust objected and he was removed. I also remember the outcry on here when it happened which suggests that some felt much more strongly about it than either of us.
I take your point about the Observer / second Director but, for me, the distinction is pretty much moot in any case - given the way the voting rights have been carved up, a second vote around the table isn't going to count for a great deal.
My point on dilution was simply that, if it chooses to, a fund of £6m gives the Trust more power to buy shares and prevent or minimise dilution than <£1m. Also, my understanding is that, by taking the deal, the Trust waives its right to legal action on the original UP case relating to the sale but not any UP case arising out of the future actions of the Owners.
The rest of it comes down to the strong case / possibility of losing argument that has been done to death previously. Suffice to say I'm probably more risk-averse than some on that one!
[Post edited 19 Aug 2017 8:27]
I just included all the demands from the Trust's communication as otherwise I would have been accused of ignoring some of them. As I said, to me, the bit about Dineen and the issue of numbers of Director are not of interest. I would not have included those things in my list of demands.
The only things that are important to me are things aiding protection of the club. Once the ability to protect was not there, it was about building up a sufficient pot to be able to protect in the future.
On the dilution issue, as I said, the Trust has sold 5% say (just using easy figures for the point) at value. say the club was 'worth' £100m and the Trust had 21% of it (a share worth £21m). If the Americans put in £25m and the Trust couldn't invest, the Trust would have been diluted down to just under 17% (more than they have now). But the value would still have been £21m as the club would then have been 'worth' £125m. The value would be maintained.
At the moment, the Trust's stake is worth £16m, with the £5m 'difference' being money in the bank that the Trust can't do anything with and which they may or may not have to pay tax on.
The value the Trust held would always remain, as the only way it doesn't is if the majority put in money at less than value which they can't do because it's a prejudice on the minority.
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Who is renewing trust membership? on 09:59 - Aug 19 with 1388 views
Who is renewing trust membership? on 09:28 - Aug 19 by MattG
Directly in terms of votes, I agree.
Indirectly, if something happened that needed to be publicised (and I await pelters for even daring to mention that), it would be more difficult for others to try and dismiss two people making the same point rather than a lone voice.
FFs Matt, publicising? That would mean communicating.
I spoke up for you on here in the week, saying how well you come across and it's a shame that you got voted off, but.............Why are you trying to do the Trusts bidding for them now? They are a busted flush, surely you can see that? They do not have the right people in place for the position we now find ourselves in, they are way out of their depths and possibly too close to the new and old board members.
They are a complete and utter shambles.
I want a mate like Flashberryjacks, who wears a Barnsley jersey with "Swans are my second team" on the back.
Who is renewing trust membership? on 09:48 - Aug 19 by NOTRAC
You said yourself that it could take two years to get a legal decision.If the Americans sold at the end of the season, the only difference would be that the Trust would have 5% less shares, which would mean very little in the grand scheme of things.But they would have £5m in the bank, which is guaranteed and is a very useful sum of money for the future.
2 things here. First of all and as i said before, I think Levin would have found it very hard to sell with litigation in progress, certainly at anything approaching full value.
Secondly how many shares would the Trust have left to be dragged if Levin decides to sell at the end of this season?
That depends on whether the options mentioned in the deal are American or European style, and I frankly don't actually believe anybody at the Trust knows the answer to that and potentially even what the difference is! (FYI, in the case of the former the Trust gives up any and all upside on the shares covered by the options, regardless of the expiry date)
Who is renewing trust membership? on 10:45 - Aug 19 by Shaky
2 things here. First of all and as i said before, I think Levin would have found it very hard to sell with litigation in progress, certainly at anything approaching full value.
Secondly how many shares would the Trust have left to be dragged if Levin decides to sell at the end of this season?
That depends on whether the options mentioned in the deal are American or European style, and I frankly don't actually believe anybody at the Trust knows the answer to that and potentially even what the difference is! (FYI, in the case of the former the Trust gives up any and all upside on the shares covered by the options, regardless of the expiry date)
As described they're American style with no expiry date.
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Who is renewing trust membership? on 10:55 - Aug 19 with 1300 views
Who is renewing trust membership? on 09:59 - Aug 19 by Neath_Jack
FFs Matt, publicising? That would mean communicating.
I spoke up for you on here in the week, saying how well you come across and it's a shame that you got voted off, but.............Why are you trying to do the Trusts bidding for them now? They are a busted flush, surely you can see that? They do not have the right people in place for the position we now find ourselves in, they are way out of their depths and possibly too close to the new and old board members.
They are a complete and utter shambles.
I acknowledged as much in my post and, for what it's worth, I agree that the Trust needs to up its game significantly on the communications front. I have been co-opted back onto the Board for a year - found out on Thursday - so will be pushing that aspect again but I'm not doing anyone's bidding other than my own. I certainly don't post here at the request of the Trust.
As for who makes up the Trust Board itself, people can only vote for the names put forward. Speaking personally, I'm certainly not too close to any of the current or previous members of the Club Board - in fact, I've never even spoken directly to any of them apart from introducing myself to Levien at the Forum they attended.
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Who is renewing trust membership? on 11:06 - Aug 19 with 1277 views
Who is renewing trust membership? on 23:56 - Aug 18 by MattG
Surely the £6m or whatever it ends up being gives a level of protection against dilution - certainly more than the <£1m currently in the bank - if we wanted to go that way. And is the risk of debt being raised against the Club any greater as a result of this deal than it was before?
Aside from a potentially different valuation (which could be higher or lower), I don't see a huge material difference between drag rights and the Americans being forced to buy our shares as a result of legal action and then selling on to someone else.
Disappointed you haven't acknowledged my points regarding Dineen and the additional representative on the Board.
I really don't know why you bother to post on here. Every time you do you just toe the party line. Why not just leave what you have to say to the numerous communications that we get from the Trust board?
[Post edited 19 Aug 2017 11:07]
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Who is renewing trust membership? on 11:16 - Aug 19 with 1265 views
Who is renewing trust membership? on 11:06 - Aug 19 by DafyddHuw
I really don't know why you bother to post on here. Every time you do you just toe the party line. Why not just leave what you have to say to the numerous communications that we get from the Trust board?
[Post edited 19 Aug 2017 11:07]
Because I have an opinion, maybe? If the fact that it differs from yours bothers you so much, feel free to put me on ignore.
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Who is renewing trust membership? on 11:34 - Aug 19 with 1250 views
Who is renewing trust membership? on 18:15 - Aug 18 by Swanseajill
There has never been a " bowling night" since we joined the Premiership. Or indeed an open day for the kids to explore the grounds. The Trust revenue was very sparse in the early days and that's how Supporters clubs and Trusts are formed. The Trust is a voice for the fans, it may not be listened to. But it's better than a lonely complaint in the letters section of The Evening Post.
With all due respect Lorr, I think the biggest voice that the board will listen to now is discontent from the East Stand.
Lets be nice, we're all newbees on here.
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Who is renewing trust membership? on 11:34 - Aug 19 with 1247 views
Who is renewing trust membership? on 09:20 - Aug 19 by QJumpingJack
Huw J always claimed he would put his side of the story forward in relation to the sale. Perhaps he will do it in his programme notes today vs Man U.
As for second trust director on the board - could the Americans have agreed to this? If they have the power to give a second directorship to the Trust but have blocked it then it says it all about what they think of the Trust.
Finally, do the Trust have any knowledge of who the investors are ?
[Post edited 19 Aug 2017 9:22]
His programme notes today say less than ever. I think he's starting to feel genuine contempt for us.
‘……. like a moth to Itchy’s flame ……’
Who is renewing trust membership? on 10:55 - Aug 19 by MattG
I acknowledged as much in my post and, for what it's worth, I agree that the Trust needs to up its game significantly on the communications front. I have been co-opted back onto the Board for a year - found out on Thursday - so will be pushing that aspect again but I'm not doing anyone's bidding other than my own. I certainly don't post here at the request of the Trust.
As for who makes up the Trust Board itself, people can only vote for the names put forward. Speaking personally, I'm certainly not too close to any of the current or previous members of the Club Board - in fact, I've never even spoken directly to any of them apart from introducing myself to Levien at the Forum they attended.
Good luck Matt, you have your work cut out.
‘……. like a moth to Itchy’s flame ……’
Who is renewing trust membership? on 09:38 - Aug 19 by E20Jack
To me, it seems like an organisation in an extreme state of denial. Constantly kidding themselves of their own presence and influence. The result of the Trusts "lines of communication" are no different to Joe Bloggs on the street bumping into Levien and saying "ticket prices are too high mate". The outcome is surely the same?
That was so frustrating regarding the communication and influence argument, there just isnt any. Having a meeting and being ignored is no different to any non shareholding party writing a letter and being ignored. Yet we have now given up all our rights and potentially squandered £10m+ to be ignored in person. The directorship as I have said before, is an expensive season ticket. Thats it.
Unfathomable.
[Post edited 19 Aug 2017 9:45]
Spot on. I know there are some well intentioned Trust members on here, so please either fully engage and communicate with a degree of honestly and urgency or resign. Sadly the view of trust is so low, not many would volunteer to join.
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Who is renewing trust membership? on 14:19 - Aug 19 with 1191 views
Who is renewing trust membership? on 09:10 - Aug 19 by NOTRAC
A question for Lisa and Shaky.You both believed in legal action, possibly Lisa with a view to extracting a better deal along the way. Why? What would legal action, with all its uncertainties have given the Trust which the present deal does not.
Given the Trust? I'm more interested on what it gives the club and the fans.
Lets be nice, we're all newbees on here.
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Who is renewing trust membership? on 21:31 - Aug 19 with 1110 views
Who is renewing trust membership? on 09:38 - Aug 19 by E20Jack
To me, it seems like an organisation in an extreme state of denial. Constantly kidding themselves of their own presence and influence. The result of the Trusts "lines of communication" are no different to Joe Bloggs on the street bumping into Levien and saying "ticket prices are too high mate". The outcome is surely the same?
That was so frustrating regarding the communication and influence argument, there just isnt any. Having a meeting and being ignored is no different to any non shareholding party writing a letter and being ignored. Yet we have now given up all our rights and potentially squandered £10m+ to be ignored in person. The directorship as I have said before, is an expensive season ticket. Thats it.
Unfathomable.
[Post edited 19 Aug 2017 9:45]
Sadly, I think you are bang on the money here.
As to the OP... I'm struggling to find justification to renew. I'm going to have to mull it over but the events over the last 12 months have left a sour taste in my mouth.
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan
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Who is renewing trust membership? on 21:58 - Aug 19 with 1083 views
Chicken and prawn madras, chilli rice, mushroom rice and a Keema Nan from your local takeaway or throw your hard earned £10 away to an organisation that reneged on the very principles they originally stood for.
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Who is renewing trust membership? on 02:21 - Aug 20 with 1028 views
Who is renewing trust membership? on 21:58 - Aug 19 by Garyjack
Chicken and prawn madras, chilli rice, mushroom rice and a Keema Nan from your local takeaway or throw your hard earned £10 away to an organisation that reneged on the very principles they originally stood for.
Come on Gar , my first thought (95%)is no, my next thought is that we must fight for our club (5%) but as we all know percentages are nothing against emotive subjects...close call
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan
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