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Who is renewing trust membership? on 13:54 - Aug 18 by swanforthemoney
Anyone who really cared would re-join and fight their corner. Those who dont renew just because vote went against them wont be much of a loss, will they ?
It's not about which way the vote went though is it.
What difference do you think you will make by joining? The Trust are a busted flush now.
And they definitely shouldn't be asking for £10 to join either.
I want a mate like Flashberryjacks, who wears a Barnsley jersey with "Swans are my second team" on the back.
Who is renewing trust membership? on 13:57 - Aug 18 by Smellyplumz
Not just because of the vote though is it and well you know it. Much of a loss? So if the trust only had a hundred members after this renewal are they representing the fans.
aprox. 250 out of 1800 members voted against. Why would that cause the membership reduce to 100 ? Over the past few years membership seemed to average about 1000. It'll probably return to around that level unless and until the next crisis pops up.
I stand in the North Stand
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Who is renewing trust membership? on 17:09 - Aug 18 with 1582 views
Who is renewing trust membership? on 14:15 - Aug 18 by swanforthemoney
aprox. 250 out of 1800 members voted against. Why would that cause the membership reduce to 100 ? Over the past few years membership seemed to average about 1000. It'll probably return to around that level unless and until the next crisis pops up.
If half of the electorate couldn't even be bothered to vote on such an important issue when they are members, then i don't hold out much hope for them renewing. Likewise i cannot see many, if any of the 250 'no's renewing. That takes the membership down to as little as 650.
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Who is renewing trust membership? on 17:58 - Aug 18 with 1550 views
Who is renewing trust membership? on 17:09 - Aug 18 by Garyjack
If half of the electorate couldn't even be bothered to vote on such an important issue when they are members, then i don't hold out much hope for them renewing. Likewise i cannot see many, if any of the 250 'no's renewing. That takes the membership down to as little as 650.
Agree!.... It’s become nothing more than an irrelevant bowling night event(s) organiser and sadly the people most likely to join from here on in are autograph seeking, selfie with the players seeking ten pin bowling enthusiasts.
Argus!
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Who is renewing trust membership? on 18:15 - Aug 18 with 1528 views
Who is renewing trust membership? on 17:58 - Aug 18 by Wingstandwood
Agree!.... It’s become nothing more than an irrelevant bowling night event(s) organiser and sadly the people most likely to join from here on in are autograph seeking, selfie with the players seeking ten pin bowling enthusiasts.
There has never been a " bowling night" since we joined the Premiership. Or indeed an open day for the kids to explore the grounds. The Trust revenue was very sparse in the early days and that's how Supporters clubs and Trusts are formed. The Trust is a voice for the fans, it may not be listened to. But it's better than a lonely complaint in the letters section of The Evening Post.
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Who is renewing trust membership? on 18:40 - Aug 18 with 1486 views
Who is renewing trust membership? on 18:15 - Aug 18 by Swanseajill
There has never been a " bowling night" since we joined the Premiership. Or indeed an open day for the kids to explore the grounds. The Trust revenue was very sparse in the early days and that's how Supporters clubs and Trusts are formed. The Trust is a voice for the fans, it may not be listened to. But it's better than a lonely complaint in the letters section of The Evening Post.
How is it better then if it's not listened to?
""Although I cannot promise or predict the future, I can guarantee one thing - the current board of directors will always fight, as we have done over the last 12 years, to work together as one with the Supporters Trust to make 100% sure that Swansea City football club remains the number one priority in all our thoughts and in every decision we make."
I'm renewing, and it's not because of any vote. When it was first formed it was crisis time was it not, we were broke, with the money we now have, run by new owners who could ditch us anytime, we will need the trust however imperfect and whatever money they can put together.
For me at least, renewing or not renewing is nothing to do with the result of a democratic vote and everything to do with whether I support the direction that the Trust choose to take.
As it is, I don't support its direction, and therefore, it seems somewhat farcical to renew, any more than I would renew membership of any organisation I disagree with.
However, it's nothing to do with feeling I know better. Nothing to do with wanting revenge. In making those assumptions, that is displaying the level of arrogance some of us are, relatively openly, being accused of.
The Trust web site displays the following objectives:
"To maintain a professional football club in Swansea; To bring the football club closer to its local community; To have elected representation on the Board of Swansea City Football Club; To maintain and increase a stake in the club, in pursuance of the aims above; To represent the needs and aims of our members at all times;"
In addition, in October 2016, the following demands were listed in a Trust address:
"Protection of the Trust’s stake in the football club and, if that cannot be achieved, a path to agreeing a sale of all or part of the Trust’s stake; Veto rights over decisions that could affect the long-term security of the football club (e.g. excessive debt, issuing new shares); The right to appoint a second director to the board of the football club to better protect the interest of our members; Removal of any directors whose shareholding was below 5%; No dividends to be issued without consent;"
Now in my opinion, and it's only my opinion, the list of demands, and the Trust overarching aims, or mission statement, has simply not been met or even partially met with this deal, and in recommending the deal to the Trust membership with such enthusiasm, the Trust board have indicated that they are on a path that I simply don't agree with.
I respect that the Trust board have different opinions to myself, and I respect those that agree with the opinion of the Trust board. I just don't agree myself.
My other reason for not renewing is that a new Supporters' Director was appointed last November, and unless I've missed something, there has not been one single communication from that director in the 9 months he has been in office. There has been no communication about the path that he wants to tread within the club, nothing about the plan from our new owners, nothing about what the club is trying to achieve, what they are trying to do with the squad, the stadium, commercial opportunities, ticket prices, parking, transfers, etc etc etc.
So personally, and it is just personal, I simply can't see any benefit any longer in 'supporters' representation'. It means nothing as far as I can tell.
Again, this is just one view, no more or less important than any other.
I personally hope that the club and Trust goes from strength to strength, that any fear I have is misguided and unfounded, and that this time next year, or sooner, I'll want to join again. I also hope that the Trust does start accepting help from those supporters with experience that may be relevant. That would be a very positive move.
3
Who is renewing trust membership? on 19:47 - Aug 18 with 1398 views
Who is renewing trust membership? on 19:37 - Aug 18 by londonlisa2001
For me at least, renewing or not renewing is nothing to do with the result of a democratic vote and everything to do with whether I support the direction that the Trust choose to take.
As it is, I don't support its direction, and therefore, it seems somewhat farcical to renew, any more than I would renew membership of any organisation I disagree with.
However, it's nothing to do with feeling I know better. Nothing to do with wanting revenge. In making those assumptions, that is displaying the level of arrogance some of us are, relatively openly, being accused of.
The Trust web site displays the following objectives:
"To maintain a professional football club in Swansea; To bring the football club closer to its local community; To have elected representation on the Board of Swansea City Football Club; To maintain and increase a stake in the club, in pursuance of the aims above; To represent the needs and aims of our members at all times;"
In addition, in October 2016, the following demands were listed in a Trust address:
"Protection of the Trust’s stake in the football club and, if that cannot be achieved, a path to agreeing a sale of all or part of the Trust’s stake; Veto rights over decisions that could affect the long-term security of the football club (e.g. excessive debt, issuing new shares); The right to appoint a second director to the board of the football club to better protect the interest of our members; Removal of any directors whose shareholding was below 5%; No dividends to be issued without consent;"
Now in my opinion, and it's only my opinion, the list of demands, and the Trust overarching aims, or mission statement, has simply not been met or even partially met with this deal, and in recommending the deal to the Trust membership with such enthusiasm, the Trust board have indicated that they are on a path that I simply don't agree with.
I respect that the Trust board have different opinions to myself, and I respect those that agree with the opinion of the Trust board. I just don't agree myself.
My other reason for not renewing is that a new Supporters' Director was appointed last November, and unless I've missed something, there has not been one single communication from that director in the 9 months he has been in office. There has been no communication about the path that he wants to tread within the club, nothing about the plan from our new owners, nothing about what the club is trying to achieve, what they are trying to do with the squad, the stadium, commercial opportunities, ticket prices, parking, transfers, etc etc etc.
So personally, and it is just personal, I simply can't see any benefit any longer in 'supporters' representation'. It means nothing as far as I can tell.
Again, this is just one view, no more or less important than any other.
I personally hope that the club and Trust goes from strength to strength, that any fear I have is misguided and unfounded, and that this time next year, or sooner, I'll want to join again. I also hope that the Trust does start accepting help from those supporters with experience that may be relevant. That would be a very positive move.
You're fannytastic.
POSTER OF THE YEAR 2013.
PROUD RECIPIENT OF THE SECOND PLANET SWANS LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD.
The trust need to draw up a list of objectives for the 17/18 and share with their members.
Short term - if we beat MK Dons and are home in the next round of the League Cup, can the Trust influence the prices? Or will we have to pay £30 to watch the likes of Stoke....?
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Who is renewing trust membership? on 20:33 - Aug 18 with 1336 views
With respect and picking up on the additional list of "demands" from 2016 :
"Protection of the Trust’s stake in the football club and, if that cannot be achieved, a path to agreeing a sale of all or part of the Trust’s stake" - the second part of this is exactly what the deal offers.
"Veto rights over decisions that could affect the long-term security of the football club (e.g. excessive debt, issuing new shares)" - thankfully we haven't needed to veto anything yet but the Americans did agree to not take any steps that would dilute the Trust (i.e. issuing new shares) until the end of the season.
"The right to appoint a second director to the board of the football club to better protect the interest of our members" - we now have a second representative, albeit without voting powers, at all Board meetings.
Removal of any directors whose shareholding was below 5% - this happened when Dineen was unexpectedly added back onto the Board and then removed at the request of the Trust.
"No dividends to be issued without consent" - as with the veto point above, this hasn't been tested yet.
I completely respect your decision regarding membership and your views on the deal but to say that those demands have "simply not been met or even partially met" just seems a bit disingenuous.
1
Who is renewing trust membership? on 21:11 - Aug 18 with 1293 views
Who is renewing trust membership? on 20:47 - Aug 18 by MattG
Lisa,
With respect and picking up on the additional list of "demands" from 2016 :
"Protection of the Trust’s stake in the football club and, if that cannot be achieved, a path to agreeing a sale of all or part of the Trust’s stake" - the second part of this is exactly what the deal offers.
"Veto rights over decisions that could affect the long-term security of the football club (e.g. excessive debt, issuing new shares)" - thankfully we haven't needed to veto anything yet but the Americans did agree to not take any steps that would dilute the Trust (i.e. issuing new shares) until the end of the season.
"The right to appoint a second director to the board of the football club to better protect the interest of our members" - we now have a second representative, albeit without voting powers, at all Board meetings.
Removal of any directors whose shareholding was below 5% - this happened when Dineen was unexpectedly added back onto the Board and then removed at the request of the Trust.
"No dividends to be issued without consent" - as with the veto point above, this hasn't been tested yet.
I completely respect your decision regarding membership and your views on the deal but to say that those demands have "simply not been met or even partially met" just seems a bit disingenuous.
My thoughts exactly. Decent analysis
I stand in the North Stand
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Who is renewing trust membership? on 21:59 - Aug 18 with 1222 views
Who is renewing trust membership? on 19:37 - Aug 18 by londonlisa2001
For me at least, renewing or not renewing is nothing to do with the result of a democratic vote and everything to do with whether I support the direction that the Trust choose to take.
As it is, I don't support its direction, and therefore, it seems somewhat farcical to renew, any more than I would renew membership of any organisation I disagree with.
However, it's nothing to do with feeling I know better. Nothing to do with wanting revenge. In making those assumptions, that is displaying the level of arrogance some of us are, relatively openly, being accused of.
The Trust web site displays the following objectives:
"To maintain a professional football club in Swansea; To bring the football club closer to its local community; To have elected representation on the Board of Swansea City Football Club; To maintain and increase a stake in the club, in pursuance of the aims above; To represent the needs and aims of our members at all times;"
In addition, in October 2016, the following demands were listed in a Trust address:
"Protection of the Trust’s stake in the football club and, if that cannot be achieved, a path to agreeing a sale of all or part of the Trust’s stake; Veto rights over decisions that could affect the long-term security of the football club (e.g. excessive debt, issuing new shares); The right to appoint a second director to the board of the football club to better protect the interest of our members; Removal of any directors whose shareholding was below 5%; No dividends to be issued without consent;"
Now in my opinion, and it's only my opinion, the list of demands, and the Trust overarching aims, or mission statement, has simply not been met or even partially met with this deal, and in recommending the deal to the Trust membership with such enthusiasm, the Trust board have indicated that they are on a path that I simply don't agree with.
I respect that the Trust board have different opinions to myself, and I respect those that agree with the opinion of the Trust board. I just don't agree myself.
My other reason for not renewing is that a new Supporters' Director was appointed last November, and unless I've missed something, there has not been one single communication from that director in the 9 months he has been in office. There has been no communication about the path that he wants to tread within the club, nothing about the plan from our new owners, nothing about what the club is trying to achieve, what they are trying to do with the squad, the stadium, commercial opportunities, ticket prices, parking, transfers, etc etc etc.
So personally, and it is just personal, I simply can't see any benefit any longer in 'supporters' representation'. It means nothing as far as I can tell.
Again, this is just one view, no more or less important than any other.
I personally hope that the club and Trust goes from strength to strength, that any fear I have is misguided and unfounded, and that this time next year, or sooner, I'll want to join again. I also hope that the Trust does start accepting help from those supporters with experience that may be relevant. That would be a very positive move.
Great post. Uxbridge was talking about sub-groups with particular competencies on another thread. A pity that professional opinions weren't considered before the vote. Seems very convenient to raise that one after the event. I also think that now the Trust has banked their money they need to get their act together. That means employing people with the necessary PR skills who are available to communicate with members and press irrespective of family holidays. From the outside, whether rightly or wrongly, the Trust Board is perceived to be a bit cliquey. Whether that's true or not doesn't matter. Perceptions are important.
Who is renewing trust membership? on 20:47 - Aug 18 by MattG
Lisa,
With respect and picking up on the additional list of "demands" from 2016 :
"Protection of the Trust’s stake in the football club and, if that cannot be achieved, a path to agreeing a sale of all or part of the Trust’s stake" - the second part of this is exactly what the deal offers.
"Veto rights over decisions that could affect the long-term security of the football club (e.g. excessive debt, issuing new shares)" - thankfully we haven't needed to veto anything yet but the Americans did agree to not take any steps that would dilute the Trust (i.e. issuing new shares) until the end of the season.
"The right to appoint a second director to the board of the football club to better protect the interest of our members" - we now have a second representative, albeit without voting powers, at all Board meetings.
Removal of any directors whose shareholding was below 5% - this happened when Dineen was unexpectedly added back onto the Board and then removed at the request of the Trust.
"No dividends to be issued without consent" - as with the veto point above, this hasn't been tested yet.
I completely respect your decision regarding membership and your views on the deal but to say that those demands have "simply not been met or even partially met" just seems a bit disingenuous.
Matt. I also respect your point of view, but in my opinion and as I've said on a number of occasions, the number one aim of the Trust was to guarantee the permanent existence of a professional football club in Swansea.
The only way of doing that is (a) to own enough shares that the club can be protected from the worst excesses of the owners or (b) have enough money in the bank to purchase enough of the club in the future to achieve (a).
The worst excesses of the owners include the dilution and debt raising mentioned, they can now dilute the trust and raise debt in the club and the Trust can't prevent it.
In addition, the club can be sold to whoever and the Trust will not only be unable to prevent the sale, but will also be unable to prevent the sale of the Trust shares so that there will be no oversight over what anyone may do.
Forgive me, I completely respect the time given by you and others, time that I have not given, but I don't believe it's disingenuous to mention these things. I do believe it may be somewhat disingenuous to say that just because dividends were not declared last year, nor debt raised as yet, nor Trust shares diluted that somehow the aims stated have been achieved since the majority owners could do all three tomorrow and there's sod all the Trust could do about it.
2
Who is renewing trust membership? on 22:14 - Aug 18 with 1187 views
Who is renewing trust membership? on 21:59 - Aug 18 by longlostjack
Great post. Uxbridge was talking about sub-groups with particular competencies on another thread. A pity that professional opinions weren't considered before the vote. Seems very convenient to raise that one after the event. I also think that now the Trust has banked their money they need to get their act together. That means employing people with the necessary PR skills who are available to communicate with members and press irrespective of family holidays. From the outside, whether rightly or wrongly, the Trust Board is perceived to be a bit cliquey. Whether that's true or not doesn't matter. Perceptions are important.
Agree with all bar one thing. Expertise was sought. A lot of money was spent on legal advise for example. There is constant dialogue with supporters direct. People with experience of such minority interest positions etc.
Experience is always desirable. One great thing about this exercise is that a number of people with expertise of certain areas have made themselves known. We have a very skilled membership. That could be very useful going forward.
Who is renewing trust membership? on 22:07 - Aug 18 by londonlisa2001
Matt. I also respect your point of view, but in my opinion and as I've said on a number of occasions, the number one aim of the Trust was to guarantee the permanent existence of a professional football club in Swansea.
The only way of doing that is (a) to own enough shares that the club can be protected from the worst excesses of the owners or (b) have enough money in the bank to purchase enough of the club in the future to achieve (a).
The worst excesses of the owners include the dilution and debt raising mentioned, they can now dilute the trust and raise debt in the club and the Trust can't prevent it.
In addition, the club can be sold to whoever and the Trust will not only be unable to prevent the sale, but will also be unable to prevent the sale of the Trust shares so that there will be no oversight over what anyone may do.
Forgive me, I completely respect the time given by you and others, time that I have not given, but I don't believe it's disingenuous to mention these things. I do believe it may be somewhat disingenuous to say that just because dividends were not declared last year, nor debt raised as yet, nor Trust shares diluted that somehow the aims stated have been achieved since the majority owners could do all three tomorrow and there's sod all the Trust could do about it.
Great post Lisa, the Trust have well and truly sold out!
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Who is renewing trust membership? on 22:29 - Aug 18 with 1156 views
Who is renewing trust membership? on 22:14 - Aug 18 by Uxbridge
Agree with all bar one thing. Expertise was sought. A lot of money was spent on legal advise for example. There is constant dialogue with supporters direct. People with experience of such minority interest positions etc.
Experience is always desirable. One great thing about this exercise is that a number of people with expertise of certain areas have made themselves known. We have a very skilled membership. That could be very useful going forward.
Paid expertise was sought in the form of a QC but the Trust Board made up of volunteers (all credit) deemed it necessary "in the interest of balance" to provide a counter argument? "Going forward" that skilled membership definitely needs to be tapped. Shame that that clearly hasn't happened before.
Who is renewing trust membership? on 22:14 - Aug 18 by Uxbridge
Agree with all bar one thing. Expertise was sought. A lot of money was spent on legal advise for example. There is constant dialogue with supporters direct. People with experience of such minority interest positions etc.
Experience is always desirable. One great thing about this exercise is that a number of people with expertise of certain areas have made themselves known. We have a very skilled membership. That could be very useful going forward.
Where is the statement of concern that was sent to the shareholders and how does that fit into your cosy, hunky-dory new relationship with Jas, Steve and Chris?
I can't see you've answered this yet, apologies if I've missed it?
* BOX OFFICE POST ABOVE* TM
I am the resurrection and i am the light. I couldn’t ever bring myself to hate you as i’d like
Who is renewing trust membership? on 23:21 - Aug 18 by TheResurrection
Where is the statement of concern that was sent to the shareholders and how does that fit into your cosy, hunky-dory new relationship with Jas, Steve and Chris?
I can't see you've answered this yet, apologies if I've missed it?
He's off his fvckin trolley!
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Who is renewing trust membership? on 23:26 - Aug 18 with 1074 views
Who is renewing trust membership? on 23:21 - Aug 18 by TheResurrection
Where is the statement of concern that was sent to the shareholders and how does that fit into your cosy, hunky-dory new relationship with Jas, Steve and Chris?
I can't see you've answered this yet, apologies if I've missed it?
What statement of concern is this?
The first ever recipient of a Planet Swans Lifetime Achievement Award.
Who is renewing trust membership? on 23:21 - Aug 18 by TheResurrection
Where is the statement of concern that was sent to the shareholders and how does that fit into your cosy, hunky-dory new relationship with Jas, Steve and Chris?
I can't see you've answered this yet, apologies if I've missed it?
You're right, the Trust board was concerned at the lack of speed of the Gylfi sale, and that was expressed recently to the other shareholders. Of course, since then, he's gone.
Not sure putting that statement out to the public would be a particularly clever commercial decision. If anything, it gives the buying club more power in the negotiation.
Good that there's actually those lines of communication, which wouldn't be the case without a shareholding, director, other channels etc.
Who is renewing trust membership? on 23:36 - Aug 18 by Uxbridge
You're right, the Trust board was concerned at the lack of speed of the Gylfi sale, and that was expressed recently to the other shareholders. Of course, since then, he's gone.
Not sure putting that statement out to the public would be a particularly clever commercial decision. If anything, it gives the buying club more power in the negotiation.
Good that there's actually those lines of communication, which wouldn't be the case without a shareholding, director, other channels etc.
That just highlights the Trust has FA influence....
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