| Our Style Of Play 19:40 - Jul 25 with 5357 views | union_jack |
I don’t pretend to be an expert on tactics, formations etc. indeed far from it but the style of play we’ve adopted for quite a few years just has not worked for us.
If the Köln game was anything to go by, and I only saw snippets, it seems this playing out from the back is going to be on the agenda once again. I just don’t think we are equipped to be successful with this style. We invite pressure on ourselves because we don’t move the ball quick enough and invariably we end up losing it after a volley of passes which we can’t keep up with or sending the ball long and give away possession.
Now, I don’t know if the new additions are going to help, does anyone, but another season of frustration awaits methinks.
It would be good to hear from those more tactically savvy than me on this such as RichardO. And maybe try to persuade me otherwise😬? |  |
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| Our Style Of Play on 17:04 - Jul 26 with 1193 views | jack247 |
| Our Style Of Play on 16:46 - Jul 26 by Dr_Winston |
We looked defensively shaky as hell in a lot of games after he took over. Not as idiotically so as we did at times under RM, but still awfully naive on a regular basis. We didn't show any signs of trying to adapt our setup against teams at the top end of the division and got gubbed by basically all of them.
He needs to show a bit of pragmatism sometimes. Sticking with a certain way despite clear evidence that it doesn't work is exactly Martin. |
Not adapting his game plan is a similarity I agree.
I genuinely don’t get the disciple of Martin thing though. We honestly don’t play remotely similarly. You and OHL may have seen something I’ve missed I suppose.
If you’re referring to the run we had right at the start of his tenure when we played All the top teams plus Bournemouth in the cup, then yes we got battered four or five games in a row. For context, we conceded eight in the last ten games. Not brilliant, but hardly indicative of a calamitous defence either. |  | | |
| Our Style Of Play on 18:30 - Jul 26 with 1135 views | ItchySphincter |
What the Euros showed us again is that the way we've been playing for the last several seasons is going to be ultimately unsuccesful. A succession of coaching-badged qualified managers has led us only to ineffective, sterile, stand-still and walking pace football. It's dull and frustrating and peddled by fraudulent coaches. It's led to me not renewing three season tickets and if we continue to be unable to get to the halfway line or out of our own half from a goalkick I wont even be bothering to stream it for free. |  |
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| Our Style Of Play on 19:01 - Jul 26 with 1113 views | onehunglow |
| Our Style Of Play on 17:04 - Jul 26 by jack247 |
Not adapting his game plan is a similarity I agree.
I genuinely don’t get the disciple of Martin thing though. We honestly don’t play remotely similarly. You and OHL may have seen something I’ve missed I suppose.
If you’re referring to the run we had right at the start of his tenure when we played All the top teams plus Bournemouth in the cup, then yes we got battered four or five games in a row. For context, we conceded eight in the last ten games. Not brilliant, but hardly indicative of a calamitous defence either. |
First time Winston and myself mentioned in dispatches together .
I speak as Ai see it.
We simply overplay on the wrong areas.
Countless times we concede after failing to clear lines or by going to sleep. This is basic coaching. Sunday league stuff .
We have lost countless games when we ve had more possession, and don’t get me started on possession stats ,which can be used by an individual at a job interview in football.
Look at my stats .
It’s all about the coach
It shouldn’t be | |
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| Our Style Of Play on 19:08 - Jul 26 with 1106 views | jack247 |
| Our Style Of Play on 19:01 - Jul 26 by onehunglow |
First time Winston and myself mentioned in dispatches together .
I speak as Ai see it.
We simply overplay on the wrong areas.
Countless times we concede after failing to clear lines or by going to sleep. This is basic coaching. Sunday league stuff .
We have lost countless games when we ve had more possession, and don’t get me started on possession stats ,which can be used by an individual at a job interview in football.
Look at my stats .
It’s all about the coach
It shouldn’t be |
Yeah I get all that, but you’re describing the Russell Martin era. We didn’t play like that last season. | | | |
| Our Style Of Play on 21:33 - Jul 26 with 1040 views | SullutaCreturned |
I'm hardly an expert either but my opinion is, you're right.
The reason we move the ball so slowly is ( and always has been ) Matt Grimes. He drops too deep and the space where he should be has no one to take a pass, when the rwide routes are blocked the only option is sideways or baclwards (invariably refusing the long punt forward in the quest to keep possession) which, when we are closed quickly put us under so much pressure we invariably leaked goals.
Possessin at all costs hurt us many times. It was also slow and boring and a large part of the reason I've fallen out of love with football and haven't renewed my ST.
I didn't see enough after LW took over to change my mind.
Nowadays we seem to have plenty of wide players but can Grimes live up to his billing and be the creative force going forward with the new Portuguese fella being at CDM or will we play 2 CDM's and Grimes still be the problem not the cure?
I shall be finding out from my arnchair. | | | |
| Our Style Of Play on 22:47 - Jul 26 with 1000 views | ItchySphincter |
| Our Style Of Play on 21:33 - Jul 26 by SullutaCreturned |
I'm hardly an expert either but my opinion is, you're right.
The reason we move the ball so slowly is ( and always has been ) Matt Grimes. He drops too deep and the space where he should be has no one to take a pass, when the rwide routes are blocked the only option is sideways or baclwards (invariably refusing the long punt forward in the quest to keep possession) which, when we are closed quickly put us under so much pressure we invariably leaked goals.
Possessin at all costs hurt us many times. It was also slow and boring and a large part of the reason I've fallen out of love with football and haven't renewed my ST.
I didn't see enough after LW took over to change my mind.
Nowadays we seem to have plenty of wide players but can Grimes live up to his billing and be the creative force going forward with the new Portuguese fella being at CDM or will we play 2 CDM's and Grimes still be the problem not the cure?
I shall be finding out from my arnchair. |
There’s no movement in the side, but that can’t be blamed on Grimes. He’s not blameless but he’s not the problem. When we get Joe on the pitch we look better because he has the ability to open up or drive in to space. For too long we’ve lauded the likes of Nathan Wood who can barely play football and persistently plays the team in to trouble because they don’t have the ability to do anything else, and every pass is behind a player rather than in front of them killing any momentum. Make no mistake about it, we are seriously lacking in quality but the problem isn’t Matthew Grimes, it’s purely and simply poor quality coaching and management. It’s where we are. | |
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| Our Style Of Play on 06:16 - Jul 27 with 958 views | jack247 |
| Our Style Of Play on 22:47 - Jul 26 by ItchySphincter |
There’s no movement in the side, but that can’t be blamed on Grimes. He’s not blameless but he’s not the problem. When we get Joe on the pitch we look better because he has the ability to open up or drive in to space. For too long we’ve lauded the likes of Nathan Wood who can barely play football and persistently plays the team in to trouble because they don’t have the ability to do anything else, and every pass is behind a player rather than in front of them killing any momentum. Make no mistake about it, we are seriously lacking in quality but the problem isn’t Matthew Grimes, it’s purely and simply poor quality coaching and management. It’s where we are. |
Allen and Grimes is a totally different proposition to Grimes and Fulton. They are both constantly putting themselves into decent positions and demanding the ball. There’s also less onus on Grimes to be the focal point of everything because Allen does that just as well, probably better, because he’s the better of the two at finding gaps and driving through them.
If France can play like Allen, or Allen can stay fit, we’ll shake off that disconnect we have when transitioning from midfield to attack. | | | |
| Our Style Of Play on 07:47 - Jul 27 with 937 views | ItchySphincter |
| Our Style Of Play on 19:01 - Jul 26 by onehunglow |
First time Winston and myself mentioned in dispatches together .
I speak as Ai see it.
We simply overplay on the wrong areas.
Countless times we concede after failing to clear lines or by going to sleep. This is basic coaching. Sunday league stuff .
We have lost countless games when we ve had more possession, and don’t get me started on possession stats ,which can be used by an individual at a job interview in football.
Look at my stats .
It’s all about the coach
It shouldn’t be |
Possession counts for nothing when you can’t get out of your own half before sh*tting the bed, and I love a good game of keepball. If schoolboys or Swansea league players made the continuous howlers that our pros do they’d be hauled off. | |
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| Our Style Of Play on 08:49 - Jul 27 with 902 views | onehunglow |
| Our Style Of Play on 07:47 - Jul 27 by ItchySphincter |
Possession counts for nothing when you can’t get out of your own half before sh*tting the bed, and I love a good game of keepball. If schoolboys or Swansea league players made the continuous howlers that our pros do they’d be hauled off. |
Jeez.
This agreeing is making my head hurt
It should be obvious
We can’t play this way,or shouldn’t | |
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| Our Style Of Play on 11:05 - Jul 27 with 857 views | RichardO |
With the keep ball you have to then have good movement off the ball, the player making the pass has to know where and when to play the ball, be it into space or to feet of players who must time their movement to come off the player marking them, giving them the time to play the ball accurately for a wall pass or enabling them to turn. If that movement is slow it is fine, unless the opposition puts a press into play, once that press is initiated the ball has to be played a lot quicker and like wise the movement has to be quicker and better, if the press is a poor one bigger spaces open up.
We have been guilty of poor descions making and poor movement which has meant we have left ourselves short at the back or nobody in the middle of the park to join the front line to the back line. So do we want rush, rush all the time leading to wayward passing or slow, slow leading to us having no pentration or being picked off.
The coach of the team must ensure that once space is created the whole team reacts as one, everyone knowing which players need to commit forward, which players need to cover but it has to be in a controlled manner which means we can capitalise on opposition mistakes and cover our own, once the tempo is upped it can be hard to do but as well organised unit with the correct players in the right positions we should be able to cover all eventualities.
The team has not been in that situation for quite sometime if you don't have the quality of players then you need to keep it as simple as possible. | | | |
| Our Style Of Play on 11:20 - Jul 27 with 834 views | Dr_Winston |
| Our Style Of Play on 22:47 - Jul 26 by ItchySphincter |
There’s no movement in the side, but that can’t be blamed on Grimes. He’s not blameless but he’s not the problem. When we get Joe on the pitch we look better because he has the ability to open up or drive in to space. For too long we’ve lauded the likes of Nathan Wood who can barely play football and persistently plays the team in to trouble because they don’t have the ability to do anything else, and every pass is behind a player rather than in front of them killing any momentum. Make no mistake about it, we are seriously lacking in quality but the problem isn’t Matthew Grimes, it’s purely and simply poor quality coaching and management. It’s where we are. |
Not sure you can praise Allen's ability to open up or drive into space yet absolve the midfielder who is apparently our main creative influence, and is paid the thick end of £1m a year for the job, for our inability to do it in Joe's absence.
Grimes can do it. He just very rarely does. That's partly coaching, and partly him. [Post edited 27 Jul 14:14]
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| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Our Style Of Play on 17:51 - Jul 27 with 734 views | ItchySphincter |
| Our Style Of Play on 11:05 - Jul 27 by RichardO |
With the keep ball you have to then have good movement off the ball, the player making the pass has to know where and when to play the ball, be it into space or to feet of players who must time their movement to come off the player marking them, giving them the time to play the ball accurately for a wall pass or enabling them to turn. If that movement is slow it is fine, unless the opposition puts a press into play, once that press is initiated the ball has to be played a lot quicker and like wise the movement has to be quicker and better, if the press is a poor one bigger spaces open up.
We have been guilty of poor descions making and poor movement which has meant we have left ourselves short at the back or nobody in the middle of the park to join the front line to the back line. So do we want rush, rush all the time leading to wayward passing or slow, slow leading to us having no pentration or being picked off.
The coach of the team must ensure that once space is created the whole team reacts as one, everyone knowing which players need to commit forward, which players need to cover but it has to be in a controlled manner which means we can capitalise on opposition mistakes and cover our own, once the tempo is upped it can be hard to do but as well organised unit with the correct players in the right positions we should be able to cover all eventualities.
The team has not been in that situation for quite sometime if you don't have the quality of players then you need to keep it as simple as possible. |
So pretty much what I said then, in more words. :) | |
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| Our Style Of Play on 17:53 - Jul 27 with 732 views | ItchySphincter |
| Our Style Of Play on 11:20 - Jul 27 by Dr_Winston |
Not sure you can praise Allen's ability to open up or drive into space yet absolve the midfielder who is apparently our main creative influence, and is paid the thick end of £1m a year for the job, for our inability to do it in Joe's absence.
Grimes can do it. He just very rarely does. That's partly coaching, and partly him. [Post edited 27 Jul 14:14]
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We're lacking in quality all over the pitch, I was just concentrating on the good bits and ignoring the bad, to suit my argument. ;) | |
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| Our Style Of Play on 18:20 - Jul 27 with 685 views | onehunglow |
| Our Style Of Play on 17:53 - Jul 27 by ItchySphincter |
We're lacking in quality all over the pitch, I was just concentrating on the good bits and ignoring the bad, to suit my argument. ;) |
Agreed
For whatever reason,we have employed coaches that see possession as king.
It isn’t unless you have the final result .Goals and wins
We have been BShitted for years,Connie£ 8th believing we are on the way ,progressing,by playing a style of our own . It’s sheete .
We are easy to play against
No coach can be worried about how we play
He just has to wait until we f3ck it up.
Williams was a wrong Choice IMO.
Any more of this he’s @ nice chap crap and O ll scream all night long
He’s clearly a nobody although a nice guy. Enough for some | |
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| Our Style Of Play on 18:40 - Jul 27 with 670 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Our Style Of Play on 18:20 - Jul 27 by onehunglow |
Agreed
For whatever reason,we have employed coaches that see possession as king.
It isn’t unless you have the final result .Goals and wins
We have been BShitted for years,Connie£ 8th believing we are on the way ,progressing,by playing a style of our own . It’s sheete .
We are easy to play against
No coach can be worried about how we play
He just has to wait until we f3ck it up.
Williams was a wrong Choice IMO.
Any more of this he’s @ nice chap crap and O ll scream all night long
He’s clearly a nobody although a nice guy. Enough for some |
I don't know that Williams was the wrong choice yet but if we aren't doing much better by Christmas then I will probably agree.
He had a chunk of last season to see what we needed and make a start. Nw he's had a full pre season and the transfer window to get what he needs, maybe some of what he wants too, time will tell.
I still say that we NEED a deent striker, maybe 2, another decent CB and a CM because Allen isnt likely to stay fit enough to play in most of our games, or even most of any game he does play in.
I don't see the owners spending that much because to be honest, we don't have it to spend. | | | |
| Our Style Of Play on 19:36 - Jul 27 with 617 views | KeithHaynes |
| Our Style Of Play on 18:40 - Jul 27 by SullutaCreturned |
I don't know that Williams was the wrong choice yet but if we aren't doing much better by Christmas then I will probably agree.
He had a chunk of last season to see what we needed and make a start. Nw he's had a full pre season and the transfer window to get what he needs, maybe some of what he wants too, time will tell.
I still say that we NEED a deent striker, maybe 2, another decent CB and a CM because Allen isnt likely to stay fit enough to play in most of our games, or even most of any game he does play in.
I don't see the owners spending that much because to be honest, we don't have it to spend. |
If he doesn’t succeed again (in the minds of the club) like Cooper and Martin the club will be paying out more compo. |  |
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| Our Style Of Play on 19:44 - Jul 27 with 614 views | onehunglow |
| Our Style Of Play on 18:40 - Jul 27 by SullutaCreturned |
I don't know that Williams was the wrong choice yet but if we aren't doing much better by Christmas then I will probably agree.
He had a chunk of last season to see what we needed and make a start. Nw he's had a full pre season and the transfer window to get what he needs, maybe some of what he wants too, time will tell.
I still say that we NEED a deent striker, maybe 2, another decent CB and a CM because Allen isnt likely to stay fit enough to play in most of our games, or even most of any game he does play in.
I don't see the owners spending that much because to be honest, we don't have it to spend. |
I seem to. Recall he promised us much in. This wondow.
Thus far ,it’s not been bad tbh but a striker is surely a must
We can’t utilise Cullen as one ,as he isn’t . | |
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| Our Style Of Play on 20:00 - Jul 27 with 589 views | RichardO |
| Our Style Of Play on 17:51 - Jul 27 by ItchySphincter |
So pretty much what I said then, in more words. :) |
Yep🙂 | | | |
| Our Style Of Play on 20:02 - Jul 27 with 588 views | Whiterockin |
| Our Style Of Play on 19:44 - Jul 27 by onehunglow |
I seem to. Recall he promised us much in. This wondow.
Thus far ,it’s not been bad tbh but a striker is surely a must
We can’t utilise Cullen as one ,as he isn’t . |
What we have brought in I feel are good players, it's just that we are lacking numbers. I really hope that off field decisions are not holding us back. |  | | |
| Our Style Of Play on 20:02 - Jul 27 with 585 views | ItchySphincter |
| Our Style Of Play on 18:40 - Jul 27 by SullutaCreturned |
I don't know that Williams was the wrong choice yet but if we aren't doing much better by Christmas then I will probably agree.
He had a chunk of last season to see what we needed and make a start. Nw he's had a full pre season and the transfer window to get what he needs, maybe some of what he wants too, time will tell.
I still say that we NEED a deent striker, maybe 2, another decent CB and a CM because Allen isnt likely to stay fit enough to play in most of our games, or even most of any game he does play in.
I don't see the owners spending that much because to be honest, we don't have it to spend. |
LAst season doesn't count but he's had his honemoon period. I'll be pretty pee'd off if he starts the season as if he's Russel Martin incarnate. We have to make better use of our tools. | |
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| Our Style Of Play on 20:15 - Jul 27 with 558 views | jack247 |
| Our Style Of Play on 20:02 - Jul 27 by ItchySphincter |
LAst season doesn't count but he's had his honemoon period. I'll be pretty pee'd off if he starts the season as if he's Russel Martin incarnate. We have to make better use of our tools. |
He didn’t do that last season, I can’t see him doing it now.
Something to consider is last season was the first since relegation that we didn’t have one of the best strikers in the division. Stick Piroe, McBurnie, Ayew or Brewster in for Yates/Cullen and I reckon we’d have done reasonably well. We looked a lot more dangerous than we did the season before, until we got into the box.
Desperately need to get that signing right or it will be another tough season. | | | |
| Our Style Of Play on 20:28 - Jul 27 with 552 views | QJumpingJack |
the way things are going I expect we will end up with 4-5 panic loan signings in the last week of August.
One or two will be decent, two-three average or poor.
We don't seem to be learning from previous mistakes (over the last 16 transfer windows). | | | |
| Our Style Of Play on 20:48 - Jul 27 with 520 views | jack247 |
| Our Style Of Play on 20:28 - Jul 27 by QJumpingJack |
the way things are going I expect we will end up with 4-5 panic loan signings in the last week of August.
One or two will be decent, two-three average or poor.
We don't seem to be learning from previous mistakes (over the last 16 transfer windows). |
Agree. They’ve never seemed to grasp that getting the right player in early, even though you have to pay his wages in July, is better than scrabbling around at the start of the season or on deadline day.
I get it with loans, as the parent club often want the player for pre season, but permanents should be done by now. We’ll get a striker and I’m sure a centre back, but I’d be much happier if they’d had a few weeks with the squad before Boro | | | |
| Our Style Of Play on 20:49 - Jul 27 with 520 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Our Style Of Play on 19:44 - Jul 27 by onehunglow |
I seem to. Recall he promised us much in. This wondow.
Thus far ,it’s not been bad tbh but a striker is surely a must
We can’t utilise Cullen as one ,as he isn’t . |
A new striker is a must because Cullen just isn't fit to lead the line. he works hard, he tries very hard but he's just not good enough.
Cullen might be useful played off a decent striker but up front alone, we may as well rely on a 6ft concrete statue of Latchford. | | | |
| Our Style Of Play on 20:56 - Jul 27 with 508 views | onehunglow |
| Our Style Of Play on 20:49 - Jul 27 by SullutaCreturned |
A new striker is a must because Cullen just isn't fit to lead the line. he works hard, he tries very hard but he's just not good enough.
Cullen might be useful played off a decent striker but up front alone, we may as well rely on a 6ft concrete statue of Latchford. |
Is right ,as I say | |
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