By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions. We in turn value your personal details in accordance with our Privacy Policy.
Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 15:02 - Feb 16 by jack247
I’m saying it’s diverting because promotion and relegation fundamentally skews the reality. I’d bet the relegated teams are near enough all at the bottom of the Championship one every single year.
You can pretend not to understand that point, it doesn’t matter, everyone else reading the thread will get it.
Brentford is a fantastic example. The fact there’s only one in the last 5 years speaks for itself.
Selling players and replacing with better for far less is absolutely laudable. That’s not what we’re doing. We’re selling and replacing with far worse in the main. That’s always the most likely outcome if you try to do it consistently.
Good stuff Brentford hardly my favourite other team but they are superbly run
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 15:02 - Feb 16 by jack247
I’m saying it’s diverting because promotion and relegation fundamentally skews the reality. I’d bet the relegated teams are near enough all at the bottom of the Championship one every single year.
You can pretend not to understand that point, it doesn’t matter, everyone else reading the thread will get it.
Brentford is a fantastic example. The fact there’s only one in the last 5 years speaks for itself.
Selling players and replacing with better for far less is absolutely laudable. That’s not what we’re doing. We’re selling and replacing with far worse in the main. That’s always the most likely outcome if you try to do it consistently.
Take the promoted and relegated teams away and it remains correct. Your point literally makes no sense when put up against mine, it’s demonstrably provable.
But your reasons for wanting to take away the promoted and relegated teams is the exact reason why net spend is useless, it means if a team has already got a strong squad then losing a player or two makes very little difference.
Not many teams have a need for such a expense cutting. How about you give me the teams that have cut 100m in 3 seasons and I’ll tell you if they have been affected by it. Let’s get you into some research work, I’ve done my share and jumped through all your hoops. Now you want more.
I can only think of Brentford as a club that has sold that much, so aside from us it appears to be 100% success rate. Doesn’t it?
We are in the main replacing with worse players because the players we are selling are Premier League standard players. That’s what happens when you go down a league. It’s perfectly normal procedure,
The players acquired in the Championship that we have sold, the likes of Celina, Lowe and Peterson we upgraded in the main.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
This is your version with promoted teams taken out:
1. Chelsea 2. Man Utd 3. Nottingham Forest (removed) 4. West Ham 5. Newcastle 6. Southampton 7. Arsenal 8. Tottenham 9. Bournemouth (removed) 10. Wolves 11. Liverpool 12. Fulham (removed) 13. Brentford 14. Leeds 15. Palace 16. Villa 17. Everton 18. Leicester 19. Man City 20. Brighton
That comes to 106 inaccuracy points.
Here’s my version:
1. Man City 2. Chelsea 3. Liverpool 4. Arsenal 5. Man Utd 6. Tottenham 7. Newcastle 8. West Ham 9. Leicester 10. Villa 11. Wolves 12. Southampton 13. Everton 14. Forest (removed) 15. Palace 16. Brighton 17. Brentford 18. Leeds 19. Fulham (removed) 20. Bournemouth (removed)
Mine comes to 77 inaccuracy points.
So that’s Premier League proven (happy for you to pick another year), Championship proven (same applies) AND given a specific example of someone shedding £90m (€101m) over the course of 3 seasons and getting demonstrably stronger every single season.
What else is there left to prove here?
Not many demonstrate in such detail, would be nice if the courtesy was returned once in a while.
[Post edited 17 Feb 2023 4:38]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 23:55 - Feb 16 by Dr_Parnassus
This is your version with promoted teams taken out:
1. Chelsea 2. Man Utd 3. Nottingham Forest (removed) 4. West Ham 5. Newcastle 6. Southampton 7. Arsenal 8. Tottenham 9. Bournemouth (removed) 10. Wolves 11. Liverpool 12. Fulham (removed) 13. Brentford 14. Leeds 15. Palace 16. Villa 17. Everton 18. Leicester 19. Man City 20. Brighton
That comes to 106 inaccuracy points.
Here’s my version:
1. Man City 2. Chelsea 3. Liverpool 4. Arsenal 5. Man Utd 6. Tottenham 7. Newcastle 8. West Ham 9. Leicester 10. Villa 11. Wolves 12. Southampton 13. Everton 14. Forest (removed) 15. Palace 16. Brighton 17. Brentford 18. Leeds 19. Fulham (removed) 20. Bournemouth (removed)
Mine comes to 77 inaccuracy points.
So that’s Premier League proven (happy for you to pick another year), Championship proven (same applies) AND given a specific example of someone shedding £90m (€101m) over the course of 3 seasons and getting demonstrably stronger every single season.
What else is there left to prove here?
Not many demonstrate in such detail, would be nice if the courtesy was returned once in a while.
[Post edited 17 Feb 2023 4:38]
"Not many demonstrate in such detail, would be nice if the courtesy was returned once in a while" There is a reason for that, as per the Ayew thread. Not many care to argue with you and give endless counter points to the extend you do, especially as you rarely accept the other posters viewpoints, but would rather go on and on to prove them wrong. Your last view posts on this thread are a prime example of that, as are your posts on the Ayew thread refusing to accept other viewpoints and constantly moving goalposts in your arguments
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 08:22 - Feb 17 by STID2017
"Not many demonstrate in such detail, would be nice if the courtesy was returned once in a while" There is a reason for that, as per the Ayew thread. Not many care to argue with you and give endless counter points to the extend you do, especially as you rarely accept the other posters viewpoints, but would rather go on and on to prove them wrong. Your last view posts on this thread are a prime example of that, as are your posts on the Ayew thread refusing to accept other viewpoints and constantly moving goalposts in your arguments
So you think because my posts are so well researched and presented, you think it’s unfair to those who put little effort or thought behind their posts and should just say they are right to make them feel better?
I’ve asked you to point out one moving goalpost, you haven’t managed to yet.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 09:25 - Feb 17 by Dr_Parnassus
So you think because my posts are so well researched and presented, you think it’s unfair to those who put little effort or thought behind their posts and should just say they are right to make them feel better?
I’ve asked you to point out one moving goalpost, you haven’t managed to yet.
A forum is about exchanging views, not being brought to task and having to give evidence and do research. Most of us did that at university and in our work. The forum is just a diversion from all that, not an extension of it.
So likewise most of cannot be bothered earmarking, as well as trawling through past posts on here just to satisfy your continual need to be right
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 09:34 - Feb 17 by STID2017
A forum is about exchanging views, not being brought to task and having to give evidence and do research. Most of us did that at university and in our work. The forum is just a diversion from all that, not an extension of it.
So likewise most of cannot be bothered earmarking, as well as trawling through past posts on here just to satisfy your continual need to be right
You don’t have to do either, but I will. I take my football very seriously indeed.
If the lack of effort you put into your view makes you feel like it doesn’t stack up to mine, that’s not my fault.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 09:49 - Feb 17 by STID2017
Not lack of effort and honestly no one cares if it " doesn't stack up to yours ". It is a forum, not a competition
If you didn’t care then you wouldn’t continuously reply.
It boils down to you wanting to disagree but not having the substance to stack up to what I’m putting forward.
There is a reason you took me off ignore, it clearly wasn’t because you didn’t care, it’s because you wanted another go at trying to challenge my posts… then get annoyed when you can’t.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 09:34 - Feb 17 by STID2017
A forum is about exchanging views, not being brought to task and having to give evidence and do research. Most of us did that at university and in our work. The forum is just a diversion from all that, not an extension of it.
So likewise most of cannot be bothered earmarking, as well as trawling through past posts on here just to satisfy your continual need to be right
I agree there. All opinions should be accepted and respected.it doesn’t mean they are right. Nobody’s are. We all opine Some do so overusing that trite P word but deep down we all know what our situation is . Many have not the inclination to express frankness for fear of being “ attacked” . This is what makes people avoid posting on forums .
Frankly,I think you and Dr P should call it a draw .
I agree with P on much but also disagree on several matters
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 10:12 - Feb 17 by onehunglow
I agree there. All opinions should be accepted and respected.it doesn’t mean they are right. Nobody’s are. We all opine Some do so overusing that trite P word but deep down we all know what our situation is . Many have not the inclination to express frankness for fear of being “ attacked” . This is what makes people avoid posting on forums .
Frankly,I think you and Dr P should call it a draw .
I agree with P on much but also disagree on several matters
Nobody is going to win an argument on here
The thing with data, it does show who is right though.
If someone says “Piroe hasn’t scored more than Ayew for us in the Championship”, data will show that he has.
Same goes for this thread, it’s very easy to show that net spend is nowhere near as impactful on finishing position as spend + squad value. It can be proven and repeated over and over again.
So I think it’s vital that a forum has people with the ability to be able to put forward such evidence.
As annoying as that is for people who wish to have the other opinion.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 10:17 - Feb 17 by Dr_Parnassus
The thing with data, it does show who is right though.
If someone says “Piroe hasn’t scored more than Ayew for us in the Championship”, data will show that he has.
Same goes for this thread, it’s very easy to show that net spend is nowhere near as impactful on finishing position as spend + squad value. It can be proven and repeated over and over again.
So I think it’s vital that a forum has people with the ability to be able to put forward such evidence.
As annoying as that is for people who wish to have the other opinion.
Fair comments but we don’t need data to evidence just where we are going wrong at the club or on the field of play. I read much about playing it out from the back. We are not doing anything like that Fans spirits have been sucked away and all what we see now is fan spats as they handle handle the truth which is happening before their very eyes. No data collection needed for that . Just lad decent eyesight and hearing ability .
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 10:29 - Feb 17 by onehunglow
Fair comments but we don’t need data to evidence just where we are going wrong at the club or on the field of play. I read much about playing it out from the back. We are not doing anything like that Fans spirits have been sucked away and all what we see now is fan spats as they handle handle the truth which is happening before their very eyes. No data collection needed for that . Just lad decent eyesight and hearing ability .
So we are going wrong because we are not spaffing cash, whilst its not appealing, I'd rather us be frugal with little debt, can they do better, of course they can and recruitment has to improve but January has always been silly season. Simplistically, RM has to shore up our defence, its worse now that when he arrived.
0
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 10:47 - Feb 17 with 706 views
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 10:03 - Feb 17 by Dr_Parnassus
If you didn’t care then you wouldn’t continuously reply.
It boils down to you wanting to disagree but not having the substance to stack up to what I’m putting forward.
There is a reason you took me off ignore, it clearly wasn’t because you didn’t care, it’s because you wanted another go at trying to challenge my posts… then get annoyed when you can’t.
Annoyed ? Not at all Told you this before. Just answering you the same as any other posters. In fact more politely as other posters can take a jokey non offensive comment without taking offence and reporting it. And don't ask for example as you won't get them. Have a good evening
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 10:47 - Feb 17 by STID2017
Annoyed ? Not at all Told you this before. Just answering you the same as any other posters. In fact more politely as other posters can take a jokey non offensive comment without taking offence and reporting it. And don't ask for example as you won't get them. Have a good evening
There is not jokes behind your posts, you attempt to troll.
Which is why you accuse and can’t back it up.
I can provide plenty of examples.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 13:04 - Feb 16 by Dr_Parnassus
You are saying it’s diverting because you know it blows your whole argument out of the water, is provable and repeatable in every single league and every single season in every single country.
So you ask for an example, I give you one and now you want me to dig out more? Someone said something about moving the goalposts earlier didn’t they?
All you had to do was say, fair posts Dr P, you did what I asked and proved it both on a team specific level and a repeatable overall level.
We sold McBurnie for £20m and bought Piroe for £1m. We don’t play wingers so there is no replacement for James. Our history is littered with selling players for a lot of money and replacing them with better, more suitable players for far less.
My favourite one of course was selling Danny Graham for £5m and buying Michu and Chico for the same price combined.
We sold McBurnie for £20m and bought Piroe for £1m.
That’s fantastic. The issue is that it’s not sustainable. We’re now very likely to have to sell Piroe for whatever we can get for him (I’d guess £10-15m) and repeat the process. If we could keep doing that, brilliant, but we can’t, which is why James, Rodon and Roberts haven’t been anywhere near adequately replaced. If we can’t find another McBurnie/Piroe for peanuts, then McBurnie won’t have been either, Piroe will just have kept the wolves from the door for a bit.
We don’t play wingers so there is no replacement for Dan James - he left two years before Martin got here. I’m sure Cooper would have loved him in Jamal Lowes position.
0
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 07:36 - Feb 18 with 593 views
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 07:36 - Feb 18 by jack247
So on net spend we’re 18th and net spend plus existing value we’re 13th. Weren’t you telling us we had the 8th biggest budget not long ago?
Transfermarkt ranks our market value as 16th in the Championship.
I don’t pretend to understand the finances, but that doesn’t strike me as being particularly well run.
No need for insults, just educate me as to what I’m not seeing.
Yep, that was prior to January.
We didn’t spend anything so others will have gone ahead of us on that since, but I also combined wage budget into that as a 3 way multi varied analysis. We were on average of all of those things 9th.
After January we are probably on average 10th.
Where have I insulted you?
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 08:27 - Feb 18 by Dr_Parnassus
Yep, that was prior to January.
We didn’t spend anything so others will have gone ahead of us on that since, but I also combined wage budget into that as a 3 way multi varied analysis. We were on average of all of those things 9th.
After January we are probably on average 10th.
Where have I insulted you?
You haven’t on this thread, I’m just generally interested in how you think we’re a well run club and don’t want the conversation to descend into smileys, jibes and down arrows. I can normally see your point even when I don’t agree with it.
Giving the benefit of the doubt, say we are 10th on your metric, doesn’t 12th in the actual table, 3 points of 10th when we’re 18th on net spend and 13th on net spend and squad value seem about right?
I’m not arguing that Martin is doing a good job, I’m concerned that whoever comes next will have a tougher job again.
0
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 09:12 - Feb 18 with 556 views
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 08:58 - Feb 18 by jack247
You haven’t on this thread, I’m just generally interested in how you think we’re a well run club and don’t want the conversation to descend into smileys, jibes and down arrows. I can normally see your point even when I don’t agree with it.
Giving the benefit of the doubt, say we are 10th on your metric, doesn’t 12th in the actual table, 3 points of 10th when we’re 18th on net spend and 13th on net spend and squad value seem about right?
I’m not arguing that Martin is doing a good job, I’m concerned that whoever comes next will have a tougher job again.
So you are having a go at me for something I haven’t done? Strange one.
No, top 10 would be about right. That should be the minimum we expect, however our aim should always be to perform above our levels, it’s the only way we can get success and it’s achievable as many precious managers have shown.
Our free transfers also skew that figure which would naturally trend that upwards. Not many clubs have free transfers of the calibre of Joe Allen, Ntcham and Pato.
Top 10 should be bare minimum Top 8 should be realistic expectation Top 6 will be a success
Whoever comes in will have their expectations set by the same metrics. Hopefully we sell someone for a large amount of money, so we can plough maybe half back into the side and we shoot up in the spend and squad value rankings, meaning it should correlate with a higher finish.
It’s the only way a club like us can grow. If we live completely within our means then we won’t get anywhere. We have to have a fine balance between prospective purchasing and external investment.
I think we have managed that superbly since relegation and not one season have I felt we have been left with a side incapable of playoffs. The only reason I feel that now is due to the way they are managed.
We would have every chance with another manager at the helm. I’m sure you agree it’s not unreasonable to think another manager with a more sensible approach would have won 2 extra games out of the 31 we have seen so far.
We would be 5th if so.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
