Forum | Amusing or concerning? by Myke

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Amusing or concerning? 11:35 - Aug 1 with 20922 views

I can't decide if I am amused or concerned by the negative backlash on here to one, ONE (narrow) away defeat - god only knows what Twitter was like!
Amused on one level, because I can remember a time when league tables weren't even compiled until the first three games were completed - now they are 'live' and a team's position literally changes by the minute.
Concerned because there was a similar reaction to McClaren's first three games in charge and the club panicked and brought in old strikers to assuage the fans. That should not happen again. That is NOT our identity anymore. We need to be patient. We may get an odd shallicking until our new defence and system beds in. Very likely (even without any more signings - which is unlikely) Shodipo, Dozzell and Dykes will now be regular starters and possibly Steph also, once everyone is fit. If, as I expect, we bring in a few more players, then you can likely add Kakay (who was actually okay on Sat) to that list. Two players were making their full debuts and another, with no training sessions, got a run out.
I firmly believe this team will get incrementally better as the season progresses. Not chalk and cheese performances like over the pat two seasons, but a gradual, tangible improvement. We may be in an around the relegation spaces for the first few weeks, but nobody ever got relegated in August or even September - and certainly not in JULY!!

Amusing or concerning? on 17:12 - Aug 3 with 2161 views

PunteR

Amusing or concerning? on 15:30 - Aug 3 by kensalriser
Promotion, really? Over what time frame? It's not going to happen this year. We've been at this level for what, 20 out of the last 26 years.

So you consider treading water around 16th for the next 15 -20 years a success?

Surely we can aim higher than that.?

We've been in the Prem twice in ten years. We was within touching distance again last year.
If we end up 16th again this year would you consider the season a success because we didnt get relegated?

Occasional providers of half decent House music.

Amusing or concerning? on 17:15 - Aug 3 with 2147 views

PunteR

Amusing or concerning? on 15:41 - Aug 3 by EastR
A reminder of our league recent years finishing positions (in the Championship): 2015/16 — 12th 2016/17 — 18th 2017/18 — 16th 2018/19 — 19th 2019/20 — 13th 2020/21 — 9th 2021/22 - 11th

So it is one step forward, two back..!

Occasional providers of half decent House music.

Amusing or concerning? on 17:25 - Aug 3 with 2119 views

kensalriser

Amusing or concerning? on 17:12 - Aug 3 by PunteR
So you consider treading water around 16th for the next 15 -20 years a success? Surely we can aim higher than that.? We've been in the Prem twice in ten years. We was within touching distance again last year. If we end up 16th again this year would you consider the season a success because we didnt get relegated?

No.

Yes.

No.

Let's not forget we got promoted through financial doping. We can't do that now, so the only route left is the smart, hard way.

If you view treading water as a failure, what's the remedy? Sack the manager again? Sack the DOF and the CEO? And then what?

Poll:

QPR to finish 7th or Brentford to drop out of the top 6?

Amusing or concerning? on 17:30 - Aug 3 with 2098 views

Hunterhoop

Amusing or concerning? on 15:41 - Aug 3 by EastR
A reminder of our league recent years finishing positions (in the Championship): 2015/16 — 12th 2016/17 — 18th 2017/18 — 16th 2018/19 — 19th 2019/20 — 13th 2020/21 — 9th 2021/22 - 11th

So, 14th is our true spiritual home. Good to know.

Amusing or concerning? on 17:35 - Aug 3 with 2085 views

Antti_Heinola

Unpopular but imo realistic view:

Every season we finish mid-table in this league is a par season for the club at the moment. Success is a strong word for it, but for me it's acceptable. People will hate that, and I'm not saying we should aim for it, but we're a small club with a tiny stadium that had 20-25 years in its entire history where top flight football was a regular thing.

Play-offs or above is a great season.

Relegation a poor season.

Fact is, no one built on Gregory's vision. Thompson fcked it through lack of investment; Wright and Fernandes fcked it through idiotic financial decisions. The days where we could have hoped to challenge regularly in the top league are gone forever - time some fans accepted that.

Bare bones.

Amusing or concerning? on 17:44 - Aug 3 with 2063 views

Sonofpugwash

Amusing or concerning? on 17:35 - Aug 3 by Antti_Heinola

No I'll never accept those days are gone forever.
Never.
You might as well stop breathing.

[Post edited 3 Aug 2022 17:45]

Poll:

Dykes - love him or hate him?

Amusing or concerning? on 17:47 - Aug 3 with 2058 views

BrianMcCarthy

Amusing or concerning? on 17:35 - Aug 3 by Antti_Heinola

"The days where we could have hoped to challenge regularly in the top league are gone forever - time some fans accepted that."

I don't think I'd go quite that far, Antti, but I would say that with the current financial rules it's incredibly, incredibly hard for our Club to even challenge for promotion, let alone achieve it. And I do think that Rangers fans should acknowledge that when judging our performances.

	"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Poll:	Player of the Year (so far)

Amusing or concerning? on 18:14 - Aug 3 with 2022 views

PunteR

Amusing or concerning? on 17:25 - Aug 3 by kensalriser
No. Yes. No. Let's not forget we got promoted through financial doping. We can't do that now, so the only route left is the smart, hard way. If you view treading water as a failure, what's the remedy? Sack the manager again? Sack the DOF and the CEO? And then what?

"So the only route left is the smart, hard way."

Yes, that's what we are doing.

But if we're not improving on 16th every season ,we're not being smart enough.

I've never endorsed sacking a manager. The board thinks sacking the manager is the remedy not me. Then again we haven't got relegated yet so i guess that's a success..?

I did write something else but my phone crashed and ive now lost my train of thought , but i can assure you it was really very clever and insightful and you'd have to agree with me ....lol

Occasional providers of half decent House music.

Amusing or concerning? on 18:25 - Aug 3 with 1998 views

PunteR

Amusing or concerning? on 17:35 - Aug 3 by Antti_Heinola

The days where we could have hoped to challenge regularly in the top league are gone forever - time some fans accepted that.

Bold statement that. I dont agree.

Are we forgetting that's football is suppose to be a competition. We can be pragmatic about our finances and stadium capacity etc. but to just shrug our shoulders and accept mid table every season and be happy we didn't get relegated is a pretty dire situation for football fans to be in.

Occasional providers of half decent House music.

Amusing or concerning? on 19:05 - Aug 3 with 1964 views

dannyblue

The sad thing is that since our chances in 2011 / 2014 some other clubs, that we never considered bigger than us and who were lower than us at that time or shortly before, have become established premier league teams: Palace (admin, bottom of champ in 2010, average attendances similar to ours in 90s and 00s), Southampton (league 1 in 2011), Leicester (competing with us to get relegated in 2015, league 1 in 2008), Wolves (league 1 in 2014), Brighton (league 1 and withdean in 2011). Lets not even talk about Fulham and Brentford...

It's oft-lamented, but the way our owners spent so much money spurning those chances, not getting anything built (even as the whole of White City was transformed in front of our eyes in one of the largest developments in Europe, and missing out on Old Oak Common too), while all around us our peers raced ahead....is actually one of the great footballing stories of mismanagement.

Amusing or concerning? on 19:30 - Aug 3 with 1918 views

NorthantsHoop

Amusing or concerning? on 19:05 - Aug 3 by dannyblue

Some great points here and there lies our problem. Investment in the infrastruture of the club was 2nd choice to the promotion to premier league, without any real chance of staying there with players, managers and agents burning cash. If we go back to the Jim Gregory days of late 60s to the 70s and early 80s it was about re-building facilities and infrastructure alongside the playing structure.

Amusing or concerning? on 19:40 - Aug 3 with 1897 views

dannyblue

I guess what this does show is that even as it gets harder and draw bridges are pulled ever up, everything can still change. None of those clubs could have expected to be where they are now a decade ago. Where might we be in 2032?

Amusing or concerning? on 20:13 - Aug 3 with 1836 views

BklynRanger

Amusing or concerning? on 17:47 - Aug 3 by BrianMcCarthy

Sorry meant to up-vote that.

It's not about accepting mediocrity but the financial facts are clear. For quite a lot of last season it looked like we had it in us to upset the odds, and we can only hope they've learnt from that.

If I think the players are giving everything and we're moving in the right direction I'll accept that this season, and I liked Beale's comments on coming here to win. Hopefully he'll be able to get the players in/fit to help him with that, because he looked and sounded worried about our whole attacking group after Saturday, I thought anyway.

People are going to moan and vent after games and, as long as its not offensive or excessively dull, it's par for the course of following this team - the chances are it could be you or me the following week.

Amusing or concerning? on 20:38 - Aug 3 with 1786 views

paulparker

Amusing or concerning? on 19:40 - Aug 3 by dannyblue
I guess what this does show is that even as it gets harder and draw bridges are pulled ever up, everything can still change. None of those clubs could have expected to be where they are now a decade ago. Where might we be in 2032?

16th

And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles Brian Moore

Amusing or concerning? on 22:11 - Aug 3 with 1716 views

Hunterhoop

Amusing or concerning? on 20:38 - Aug 3 by paulparker
16th

14th.

See above.

Amusing or concerning? on 22:31 - Aug 3 with 1666 views

Myke

Amusing or concerning? on 17:35 - Aug 3 by Antti_Heinola

Good post Antti, but I could not agree with your final statement. 'Gone forever' is a pretty final concept and I would not accept that this is the case. Not that I particularly WANT to be in the prem, but I would hate to think we might never have a chance again to get there (that sounds like a contradiction I know). I think proof of how things can change dramatically (either for the better or worse) is when you consider where we were at Christmas 2020; when relegation was looking a real threat and MW was on the brink of the sack, to where we were 12 months later when we were confident of a top 6 place and dreaming of top 2. Yes, we crashed and burned as fast as we rose, but my point is that things can change quite quickly and nothing is 'forever'.
However, not accepting that we will never again compete from promotion and writing off half the team after losing the opening game of the season by a single goal, are two very different things. As I said in the OP, I believe we will start slowly and get stronger as the new system is bedded in and our final squad becomes settled. How much we improve will be largely determined by how many goals we actually score (looking slim at the moment) and as I said on another thread, we need all our (current) attacking players weighing in with 10- 12 goals apiece, which could lift us as high as 8th. If they end up in single figures then 14th is more realistic.
We also need one of our better players to have a stand out season (or half-season) so we can make a decent sale, to move the process forward. Because, despite many being delighted that we have retained all our top players either due to injury or loss of form (or both), failing to make a significant sale is holding us back in the long run. The best example of this is McNamara; Beale clearly identified him as his first choice RB, and even though Sterling (or whoever) may do the job admirably, the chance to own and develop our own RB has been scuppered simply because he we couldn't afford him. That would not have been the case if we had sold any of our better players for £3m+.
Sorry Antti, only the first paragraph (and a bit ) intended as a reply to your post. After that, I went on a bit of a ramble, which is extremely unusual for me.

[Post edited 3 Aug 2022 22:35]

Amusing or concerning? on 08:56 - Aug 4 with 1540 views

numptydumpty

Amusing ?? Not really

There are a few posters on here, who only pipe up when they get an opportunity to state how undeniably shi*te we are after we have been absolutely annihilated 1 nil by another mid table underachieving team !!!

Are these people supporters of our great club or are they the type of people you wouldn't want as your next door neighbour..

Concerning ??

Who knows but clearly Rome wasn't built in a day...

I was one that thought we should stick with Mark Warburton for the long term.

Yes it was disappointing the end to last season. There were a few mistakes, strikers , and loan signings gone wrong, but halfway through the season there were many who said stick now with what you have got for the long term ie at least five years, ie gives a manager time to put his imprint onto the club, get all the players he wants, and the club can all know their identity and philosophy.

Injuries was a massive factor last season.

Currently squad wise, we are weaker than last season, I expect a few more incoming myself, but our new head coach needs time to place his imprint on our great club.

Until we get a new stadium, which I personally can't see for at least 10 years , maybe more like 20 years, it s not going to happen, particularly in the same area of London, but until the new stadium is in place, this club is a mid table club in the championship.

Play offs and above is a brilliant job being done.

But staying up and not being totally outplayed in most games in the premiership is an impossible dream until we have the infrastructure to grow our club.

It's disappointing for me, that we chose to get trigger happy with a manager once more with Warburton but from a lot of testimonials about Beale, it's certainly an interesting appointment, but again if we are in the bottom three at Christmas, he will get sacked and we start again and again.

I think it's so important if managers do show promise in certain areas to give them time, and also be realistic, but that's not going to happen.

We have three players coming into our team soon, who weren't involved last season in the decline, Taylor Richards, Tyler Roberts and of course, Chris Willock.

Willock brought the best out of Chair and others and it seemed we had found something before sadly for us, his injury led to the decline.

I personally am greatly looking forwards to the season ahead and hope to be celebrating a win on Saturday.

So again in answer to Op' s questions;

Amused : No

Painful seeing these meltdowns after one game.

Concerned: No

Early days . Am hopeful but the club needs time.

[Post edited 4 Aug 2022 8:57]

	Walking in a "Mackie Wonderland"
Poll:	Where will we finish next season ???

Amusing or concerning? on 09:15 - Aug 4 with 1499 views

CiderwithRsie

I.m with those who agree with all of Antti's post except the last sentence.

What is fairer to say is that we are not in a position to do that now and to get there will take years, maybe decades, of work even if the club's owners start getting things right straightaway.

Got to also strongly agree with Dannyblue that the owners had real opportunities over the last 10 years or so and badly missed them.

Amusing or concerning? on 09:47 - Aug 4 with 1464 views

connell10

Amusing or concerning? on 17:35 - Aug 3 by Antti_Heinola

What's the point then ???

	AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!!
Poll:	best number 10 ever?

Amusing or concerning? on 10:16 - Aug 4 with 1414 views

francisbowles

Amusing or concerning? on 09:47 - Aug 4 by connell10
What's the point then ???

To be realistic, whilst you dream and hope.

Amusing or concerning? on 10:22 - Aug 4 with 1406 views

connell10

Amusing or concerning? on 09:47 - Aug 4 by connell10
What's the point then ???

I'll never except that last sentence, the day I do that's it I'm finished with football.

	AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!!
Poll:	best number 10 ever?

Amusing or concerning? on 10:33 - Aug 4 with 1381 views

QPROslo

Amusing or concerning? on 15:41 - Aug 3 by EastR
A reminder of our league recent years finishing positions (in the Championship): 2015/16 — 12th 2016/17 — 18th 2017/18 — 16th 2018/19 — 19th 2019/20 — 13th 2020/21 — 9th 2021/22 - 11th

Yes, those finishing positions the last 3 seasons with Warburton the Manager and an average finish position of 11th, were a considerable improvement on the 3 seasons before when the average finish position was 18th. These were achieved despite tighter Budgets and handling a turnover of around 15 players during the close-seasons prior to Warburton's 1st and 2nd seasons, many of them key players and included losing both Freeman and Eze.

Based simply on this improvement there are certainly questions to ask on the decision to part company with Warburton. By parting company with him and bringing in Beale, the Club have to be expecting a clear improvement on 11th over the next 3 seasons, so the target must be getting very close at least to top 6 this season for a start.

Amusing or concerning? on 10:33 - Aug 4 with 1380 views

davman

Amusing or concerning? on 20:56 - Aug 1 by switchingcode

Fan base has very little to do with being successful it’s down to having a clever and fairly rich owner and a first class recruitment team.You also have to have patience with the manager/head coach be prepared to sell your best players every season and replace with better and accept some will be failures .It can take 8 years to get to the so called promised land that will give you loads of money to spunk on over rated players for a few seasons if you are lucky then you return to the best league in the world and start all over again.Hope that’s helpful

What, like we did in the 90s way way before your "progressive" club did it?

Hope that helps...

	Can we go out yet?
Poll:	What would you take for Willock if a bid comes this month?

-1

Amusing or concerning? on 10:45 - Aug 4 with 1347 views

davman

Amusing or concerning? on 17:35 - Aug 3 by Antti_Heinola

Not the thread for this, but Brian posted up the Arsenal game on the other thread and that got me all nostalgic. This crap about Thompson"fcked it" through a lack of investment is highly unfair and a typical football fan's view. He was doing what we are trying to do now - run the club sustainably. Without all the data and stats available today, we did that for a good few seasons, but just one failure (to use the Sir Les money well) killed us just as the money go round started.

I agree that if the Thompson had piled money in, we might have had a different outcome today, but they owned us as a business and (I think) may even have made a profit out of that ownership). So, on that, they did well.

The reality was that he was very rich, but not too much of a fan to pile in money to achieve success on the field as they could not have foreseen what football would become.

The older I get, the less I believe Richard Thompson is the devil incarnate.

	Can we go out yet?
Poll:	What would you take for Willock if a bid comes this month?

Amusing or concerning? on 11:55 - Aug 4 with 1278 views

Antti_Heinola

Amusing or concerning? on 09:47 - Aug 4 by connell10
What's the point then ???

Why should anyone support a non league club then?

I go to football to support my team and because I love watching football.

If you're going because you think one day we'll win the premier league, you have a lifetime of disappointment ahead of you. Those top clubs in the Prem are light years ahead of us. Thinking we might one day challenge them in our lifetime is like a fan of Beaconsfield hoping they might play championship football in the next 20 years, and, when realising that won't happen, not going anymore because 'what's the point?'

Bare bones.

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