| Covid-19 in the Camp! 13:16 - Aug 20 with 6261 views | jackharris |
A couple of players will be absent tonight, including Cabango. It has been reported unofficially. |  |
| Very proud to be voted Planet Swans Poster of the Year 2017 by my fellow posters. Especially on a site that nearly had 20 million impressions last year. | | Poll: | What is your favourite Knock? |
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| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 19:03 - Aug 20 with 1068 views | jackrmee |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 18:19 - Aug 20 by londonlisa2001 |
I literally typed ‘ Then two people meeting each other for long enough to pass the virus where one is infected and one isn’t and neither know status’.
It’s an example to show you the maths. It’s relative.
I’m not being rude, but I’m pretty certain I wouldn’t need to explain that to Sarah Gilbert which is why on balance I’m going to believe her not you… |
Show me the maths about what though?
That explanation says that " Then two people meeting each other for long enough to pass the virus where one is infected and one isn’t and neither know status’"....If they are unvaccinated, there is a 100% change of infection.
That's utter rubbish.
I could have COVID, no vaccine and snog my missus who has no vaccine and theres still not a 100% chance she gets covid. |  |
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| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 19:06 - Aug 20 with 1059 views | jasper_T |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 19:01 - Aug 20 by jackrmee |
I don't think life works that way mate. |
It's all a conspiracy, innit. Vaccines are just an excuse to plant microchips in all of us so Keith can track our locations more accurately. |  | | |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 19:30 - Aug 20 with 1017 views | jackharris |
As reported Cabango is out, along with Downes. | |
| Very proud to be voted Planet Swans Poster of the Year 2017 by my fellow posters. Especially on a site that nearly had 20 million impressions last year. | | Poll: | What is your favourite Knock? |
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| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 20:19 - Aug 20 with 968 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 17:42 - Aug 20 by londonlisa2001 |
Firstly the vaccines reduce infection, transmission and severe illness if you do get it. They are best at reducing severe illness but still reduce infection and transmission even though to a lesser extent.
Secondly, catching Covid without vaccination still results in approximately 30% of cases being asymptomatic, therefore your assertion that you will ‘know’ you have it is wrong.
The bigger the percentage of the population who get vaccinated, the more the % reductions in infection and transmission have a huge effect overall.
Plus, of course, young people are less likely to die and get severe illness, but some do. Also a number suffer long Covid and may end up with permanent damage to organs.
Most of all, it’s a bloody vaccine, massively tested and hugely safe, issued freely and people should stop listening to bollox and just take the bloody thing. If we end up with a player who is ill or has long Covid or permanent lung impairment even if slight and the club are ‘ok’ about them not being vaccinated it’s shocking. They’re not ‘ok’ about alcohol or eating crap food and that won’t cause them to die or get severely ill either. |
ðŸ‘🾠|  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 20:46 - Aug 20 with 950 views | onehunglow |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 19:01 - Aug 20 by jackrmee |
I don't think life works that way mate. |
Why are you looking for vaccine to fail.
It seems so.
Will you ever accept a vax and if so what criteria will you employ to accept it.
By the way,polio,TB,Smallpox,Rubella,Measle vaxes seem to work. Millions of lives saved. | |
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| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 20:49 - Aug 20 with 951 views | Catullus |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 19:01 - Aug 20 by jackrmee |
I don't think life works that way mate. |
You're right, all too often it doesnt work that way. Which is why so many people die from illnesses that are preventable like Cirrhosis and Diabetes. It's why so many young drivers crash killing themselves and/or others. It's why people die from drugs they may have taken only once.
My mother didn't listen to the medical expert who begged her not to discharge herself and 2 days later she was dead.
My doctor recommended I give up football when I was 32, I played on for 8 more years and now I'm an arthritic mess.
Experts can and do get things wrong sometimes but if we listened to experts more often maybe we'd have fewer problems.
PS, the Prof would hve to back this up or correct it but I think the reason it's less transmissible if you're vaccinated is because you carry less viral load so you literally breathe out less of the virus. The less viral load you exhale the less chance of someone else breathing it in. It's for a similar reason people don't get seriously ill, the vaccine prevents the virus from growing inside you so much, the antibodies fight it before it multiplies. | |
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| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 20:51 - Aug 20 with 949 views | Boundy |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 19:01 - Aug 20 by jackrmee |
I don't think life works that way mate. |
Not wishing to get into a bitch fest , but how did you manage in school being taught by someone who was qualified to do so | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 21:40 - Aug 20 with 938 views | ExiledJack |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 20:49 - Aug 20 by Catullus |
You're right, all too often it doesnt work that way. Which is why so many people die from illnesses that are preventable like Cirrhosis and Diabetes. It's why so many young drivers crash killing themselves and/or others. It's why people die from drugs they may have taken only once.
My mother didn't listen to the medical expert who begged her not to discharge herself and 2 days later she was dead.
My doctor recommended I give up football when I was 32, I played on for 8 more years and now I'm an arthritic mess.
Experts can and do get things wrong sometimes but if we listened to experts more often maybe we'd have fewer problems.
PS, the Prof would hve to back this up or correct it but I think the reason it's less transmissible if you're vaccinated is because you carry less viral load so you literally breathe out less of the virus. The less viral load you exhale the less chance of someone else breathing it in. It's for a similar reason people don't get seriously ill, the vaccine prevents the virus from growing inside you so much, the antibodies fight it before it multiplies. |
Really good post, this is affecting everyone and it’s important we talk about it instead of jumping at people’s throats because they think differently. What a horrible world it would be if we all thought the same way all the time.
This makes abundant sense to me, the vaccine is supposed to boost the immune system to clear the viral load more effectively, reducing the viral load and clearing it more quickly. However, think about the variants. The weaker ones should stand no chance against the vaccine. The stronger ones, too strong to spread in an unvaccinated population because they incapacitate too many people, could spread more freely amongst a vaccinated population as the stronger immune response dampens the worst effects, and no longer incapacitates. This could be why cases seem to spike in countries alongside a vaccine rollout, and could explain why younger people seem to be more affected now.
Studies are showing that a greater antibody response is required to clear Delta than was needed for the Alpha variant.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03777-9
Perhaps regular vaccines and stronger variants are the best way to go, there’ll be more buy-in if it’s explained rather than brushed off. | | | |
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| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 21:50 - Aug 20 with 924 views | jasper_T |
Cases spike in countries with vaccine rollout because they also relax distancing measures (both officially and people thinking they're 100% safe so going back to their normal routines). Correlation rather than causation. | | | |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 22:00 - Aug 20 with 916 views | ExiledJack |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 21:50 - Aug 20 by jasper_T |
Cases spike in countries with vaccine rollout because they also relax distancing measures (both officially and people thinking they're 100% safe so going back to their normal routines). Correlation rather than causation. |
A fair point, but also shows that the vaccines are not a panacea. And it is particularly cases of the stronger variant which seem to have risen since vaccine rollout, we didn’t see that with relaxation of distancing measures last year. | | | |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 22:02 - Aug 20 with 915 views | felixstowe_jack |
It is amazing not all PL and EFL players have been vaccinated. Last week 12 PL players tested positive for the virus as well as games being cancelled.
It is about time the unvaccinated players took one for the team. I suspect they will expect full pay while they are self isolating. | |
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| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 22:07 - Aug 20 with 912 views | jasper_T |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 22:00 - Aug 20 by ExiledJack |
A fair point, but also shows that the vaccines are not a panacea. And it is particularly cases of the stronger variant which seem to have risen since vaccine rollout, we didn’t see that with relaxation of distancing measures last year. |
Mutations and new variants occur with time + large populations infected. There's been a lot more media attention on variants since the vaccines became widespread as the news story is always "will vaccines protect against this new strain". "Stronger" becomes as much about how well/badly current vaccines handle it as the harm it otherwise causes.
Wasn't the first "UK" variant panic over a year ago? | | | |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 22:35 - Aug 20 with 895 views | ExiledJack |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 22:07 - Aug 20 by jasper_T |
Mutations and new variants occur with time + large populations infected. There's been a lot more media attention on variants since the vaccines became widespread as the news story is always "will vaccines protect against this new strain". "Stronger" becomes as much about how well/badly current vaccines handle it as the harm it otherwise causes.
Wasn't the first "UK" variant panic over a year ago? |
My interpretation, based on studies such as the one I’ve posted below and other data points, is that the Delta variant is a stronger variant than previous variants.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03777-9
I might be wrong, and if so I’d welcome an explanation to prove otherwise. Most importantly I think we should ask the question, and also we should know what impact the vaccines have on the prevalence of particular mutations, the evolution of the virus. Can we take action to favour mutations into a weaker form?
The media’s focus doesn’t appear to be on the evolution of the virus, it appears to be more fixated on the efficacy of the vaccines against mutations. Effect rather than cause. | | | |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 22:40 - Aug 20 with 884 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 18:39 - Aug 20 by hobo |
wow, think about what you are writing |
I am.
I’m fed up with being concerned about more vulnerable people who’d be a lot safer if some people stopped believing idiots rather than experts.
I’d rather the activities of the deliberately unvaccinated were limited rather than the activities of those who’ve done all they can. Because it’s either or isn’t it. | | | |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 22:42 - Aug 20 with 877 views | onehunglow |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 22:40 - Aug 20 by londonlisa2001 |
I am.
I’m fed up with being concerned about more vulnerable people who’d be a lot safer if some people stopped believing idiots rather than experts.
I’d rather the activities of the deliberately unvaccinated were limited rather than the activities of those who’ve done all they can. Because it’s either or isn’t it. |
I once asked if they would take MMR,Polio,Smallpox vaxes I remember Smallpox alright.Nobody refused them. We listened to doctors then. Now,we are too smart. | |
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| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 22:43 - Aug 20 with 880 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 18:48 - Aug 20 by jackrmee |
So I should just believe anything I'm ever told from anyone with more qualifications than me? |
Given your inability to understand a simple example showing the relative effects of vaccines on transmission and infection, I would if I were you to be honest, yes.
If you ever require an operation I’d imagine you’d prefer someone with some relevant qualifications and experience to carry it out? | | | |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 22:45 - Aug 20 with 870 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 19:03 - Aug 20 by jackrmee |
Show me the maths about what though?
That explanation says that " Then two people meeting each other for long enough to pass the virus where one is infected and one isn’t and neither know status’"....If they are unvaccinated, there is a 100% change of infection.
That's utter rubbish.
I could have COVID, no vaccine and snog my missus who has no vaccine and theres still not a 100% chance she gets covid. |
Oh dear God.
It’s a relative example showing effects in different scenarios.
If the actual likelihood of you catching Covid as an unvaccinated person was 60%, the other examples would be similarly reduced and the RELATIVE proportions would be the same. I actually explained it in the example. | | | |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 22:47 - Aug 20 with 859 views | onehunglow |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 22:45 - Aug 20 by londonlisa2001 |
Oh dear God.
It’s a relative example showing effects in different scenarios.
If the actual likelihood of you catching Covid as an unvaccinated person was 60%, the other examples would be similarly reduced and the RELATIVE proportions would be the same. I actually explained it in the example. |
If you ask them what the alternaive is Lisa,they are schtum.Simple as that.
None of them has an answer to covid. We have searched for a solution that killed hundreds of thouands and when it comes it's no good and they won't have it.
Ive posted some shyte in my time but what read from them is unbelievable.Literally. | |
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| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 22:50 - Aug 20 with 858 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 22:42 - Aug 20 by onehunglow |
I once asked if they would take MMR,Polio,Smallpox vaxes I remember Smallpox alright.Nobody refused them. We listened to doctors then. Now,we are too smart. |
I genuinely don’t understand what the whole ‘don’t believe medical experts’ is about.
It’s simply insane.
People with absolutely no scientific background whatsoever reckoning they know more than the world experts in this stuff. Or that ‘someone’ (God knows who) is gaining something from collapsing the economies of pretty much every major country and dishing out furlough money to everyone being told to stay inside for the best part of a year. | | | |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 22:51 - Aug 20 with 858 views | jasper_T |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 22:35 - Aug 20 by ExiledJack |
My interpretation, based on studies such as the one I’ve posted below and other data points, is that the Delta variant is a stronger variant than previous variants.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03777-9
I might be wrong, and if so I’d welcome an explanation to prove otherwise. Most importantly I think we should ask the question, and also we should know what impact the vaccines have on the prevalence of particular mutations, the evolution of the virus. Can we take action to favour mutations into a weaker form?
The media’s focus doesn’t appear to be on the evolution of the virus, it appears to be more fixated on the efficacy of the vaccines against mutations. Effect rather than cause. |
Over time most viruses mutate to be "weaker" in the sense that they do less damage to the host (because those strains will get more chance to spread than deadlier ones), and "stronger" in the sense that they become more vaccine resistant (as the ones that aren't won't spread as easily). It's natural selection/survival of the fittest.
The only way to encourage this type of development would be infecting massive amounts of people over a long period of time. Obvious downsides to that approach. We limit the chances the virus has to adapt to our vaccines by limiting the number of people catching and transmitting it. A difficult task on a global scale even without anti-vax crusaders stirring the pot. | | | |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 22:56 - Aug 20 with 845 views | onehunglow |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 22:50 - Aug 20 by londonlisa2001 |
I genuinely don’t understand what the whole ‘don’t believe medical experts’ is about.
It’s simply insane.
People with absolutely no scientific background whatsoever reckoning they know more than the world experts in this stuff. Or that ‘someone’ (God knows who) is gaining something from collapsing the economies of pretty much every major country and dishing out furlough money to everyone being told to stay inside for the best part of a year. |
As I say,nobody would refuse anaesthetic would they. It has risks,possibly more than a vaccine. | |
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| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 23:02 - Aug 20 with 842 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 22:07 - Aug 20 by jasper_T |
Mutations and new variants occur with time + large populations infected. There's been a lot more media attention on variants since the vaccines became widespread as the news story is always "will vaccines protect against this new strain". "Stronger" becomes as much about how well/badly current vaccines handle it as the harm it otherwise causes.
Wasn't the first "UK" variant panic over a year ago? |
There was a immunologist (Dr Geert Vanden Boschee) who had warned against max vaccine rollout precisely for the reason that the virus would re invent itself to find the weakness in the vaccines. Does this mean continuing vaccines ad infinitum and never any let up from Covid? |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 23:10 - Aug 20 with 832 views | ExiledJack |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 22:51 - Aug 20 by jasper_T |
Over time most viruses mutate to be "weaker" in the sense that they do less damage to the host (because those strains will get more chance to spread than deadlier ones), and "stronger" in the sense that they become more vaccine resistant (as the ones that aren't won't spread as easily). It's natural selection/survival of the fittest.
The only way to encourage this type of development would be infecting massive amounts of people over a long period of time. Obvious downsides to that approach. We limit the chances the virus has to adapt to our vaccines by limiting the number of people catching and transmitting it. A difficult task on a global scale even without anti-vax crusaders stirring the pot. |
This is my point and concern, your first few lines is accepted by everyone. So why hasn’t it happened? Why has the reverse happened? Could it be because the mass rollout of vaccines allows for stronger mutations to spread that otherwise wouldn’t?
Perhaps this is ok for those who have been vaccinated, but it might leave everyone else in a pickle. And even those who have been vaccinated, if their immunity wanes before a booster. Vaccine resistant mutations will likely occur too.
If we can’t engender weaker mutations, we should at least avoid knowingly engendering stronger mutations unless we have a very good reason for it.
You are bang on with natural selection, which is why the virus will adapt to the vaccines. The paper I posted suggests it already has to an extent with the Delta variant. Surely the best way we could limit the chances would be to only use the vaccines sparingly, so there’d be no evolutionary advantage in mutating to escape them? | | | |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 23:17 - Aug 20 with 824 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 23:10 - Aug 20 by ExiledJack |
This is my point and concern, your first few lines is accepted by everyone. So why hasn’t it happened? Why has the reverse happened? Could it be because the mass rollout of vaccines allows for stronger mutations to spread that otherwise wouldn’t?
Perhaps this is ok for those who have been vaccinated, but it might leave everyone else in a pickle. And even those who have been vaccinated, if their immunity wanes before a booster. Vaccine resistant mutations will likely occur too.
If we can’t engender weaker mutations, we should at least avoid knowingly engendering stronger mutations unless we have a very good reason for it.
You are bang on with natural selection, which is why the virus will adapt to the vaccines. The paper I posted suggests it already has to an extent with the Delta variant. Surely the best way we could limit the chances would be to only use the vaccines sparingly, so there’d be no evolutionary advantage in mutating to escape them? |
I think that’s what Dr Geert was saying | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 00:53 - Aug 21 with 781 views | jasper_T |
| Covid-19 in the Camp! on 23:02 - Aug 20 by Brynmill_Jack |
There was a immunologist (Dr Geert Vanden Boschee) who had warned against max vaccine rollout precisely for the reason that the virus would re invent itself to find the weakness in the vaccines. Does this mean continuing vaccines ad infinitum and never any let up from Covid? |
Viruses mutate over time whether we make vaccines or not, same as the common cold and flu does every year. It's not like the virus is intelligently analysing our specific vaccines and working out how to beat them, becoming stronger as a result - having a vaccinated population means you deny all the strains that can't overcome the vaccines the ability to spread easily, so strains that can overcome them will run more rampant by comparison.
We'll see fewer strains and mutations by denying as many strains as possible and keeping the number of infected people as small as we can, not by holding off on vaccinating people. I don't think anyone will be surprised if annual "boosters" for vulnerable people become the norm just like with the flu. The content of the flu shots differs every year based on what boffins decide will be the most common strains going around.
Interesting that post-match Martin says we lost Naughton and Bennett to covid when previously the story had been knocks and injuries. | | | |
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