| Remain petition on 10:22 - Mar 27 with 1921 views | bluey_the_blue |
The petition was open for anyone to sign; friends of my wife signed it and they are only visiting the uk for a month from mainland Europe. |  | |  |
| Remain petition on 10:26 - Mar 27 with 1910 views | costalotta |
| Remain petition on 10:22 - Mar 27 by bluey_the_blue |
The petition was open for anyone to sign; friends of my wife signed it and they are only visiting the uk for a month from mainland Europe. |
You know what.
My parent signed it too. They didn't vote in the original Ref as they were living in Europe.
It evens out my friend. No one can say that 6m people expressing an opinion in this manner is not impressive nor a major event. The (real) establishment are bricking it. Why do you think some and are falling behind May. You can almost smell the fear !
It would be hilarious if wasn't so damn important moment in our country's history! |  | | |
| Remain petition on 10:28 - Mar 27 with 1902 views | longlostjack |
| Remain petition on 10:22 - Mar 27 by bluey_the_blue |
The petition was open for anyone to sign; friends of my wife signed it and they are only visiting the uk for a month from mainland Europe. |
You'd imagine that if the Tories are so sure that they are still carrying out the will of the British people they would have no problem in putting it back to the people to confirm it. Their reluctance to do that speaks volumes. |  |
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| Remain petition on 10:31 - Mar 27 with 1897 views | costalotta |
| Remain petition on 10:28 - Mar 27 by longlostjack |
You'd imagine that if the Tories are so sure that they are still carrying out the will of the British people they would have no problem in putting it back to the people to confirm it. Their reluctance to do that speaks volumes. |
Exactomondo! | | | |
| Remain petition on 11:44 - Mar 27 with 1847 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Remain petition on 10:28 - Mar 27 by longlostjack |
You'd imagine that if the Tories are so sure that they are still carrying out the will of the British people they would have no problem in putting it back to the people to confirm it. Their reluctance to do that speaks volumes. |
So you're then introducing around a year additional delay and more expense.
Do you believe a second referendum would be demanded by MPs if Remain had won the first? | | | |
| Remain petition on 11:56 - Mar 27 with 1836 views | Tom1912 |
| Remain petition on 11:44 - Mar 27 by bluey_the_blue |
So you're then introducing around a year additional delay and more expense.
Do you believe a second referendum would be demanded by MPs if Remain had won the first? |
Do you believe a narrow 52-48 remain win would not have lead to further campaigning from the leave side for another referendum?
Because Nigel Farage certainly believed it would in 2016:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36306681
Of course, he's changed his mind on this since. [Post edited 27 Mar 2019 11:57]
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| Remain petition on 12:06 - Mar 27 with 1818 views | costalotta |
| Remain petition on 09:46 - Mar 27 by chad |
Europe (I am sure you actually mean the private members EU Club, where potential new members are often blackballed, rather than the geographic area that has been round a tad longer) isn’t apparently for us all. Africa for instance or Turkey perhaps.
Otherwise sounds great
Let’s try it for the best part of half a century then have a vote amongst equals here to see if we think it is still working for us.
Let’s see if they are happy to let us go in that manner of fairness and balance.
Or is that the way The EU swings too, those who kick their heels the hardest get their own way
I don’t suppose there are any sub interest groups amongst the EU equals are there? |
You see to be struggling with a relatively simple concept and have come up with...well, nothing but wibling! [Post edited 27 Mar 2019 12:07]
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| Remain petition on 12:22 - Mar 27 with 1792 views | chad |
| Remain petition on 10:21 - Mar 27 by longlostjack |
Nobody did more heel clicking than the UK. This resulted in a range of opt outs and rebates. Interestingly the UK has been dragging it's feet and obstructing EU measures to clamp down on tax havens. I wonder why that could be? |
Kicking their heels
Heel clicking, perhaps has different connotations in Europe
I think they intend to remove all rebates which would massively increase the cost to us
The large rebate we currently get was negotiated and agreed to, due to massive imbalance of benefits from the prominent CAP scheme. |  | | |
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| Remain petition on 12:37 - Mar 27 with 1774 views | howenjack |
| Remain petition on 12:22 - Mar 27 by chad |
Kicking their heels
Heel clicking, perhaps has different connotations in Europe
I think they intend to remove all rebates which would massively increase the cost to us
The large rebate we currently get was negotiated and agreed to, due to massive imbalance of benefits from the prominent CAP scheme. |
We'll be paying billions into a totalitarian super state that' s never had its accounts audited and they will be asking for more and more ...and there's nothing we'll be able to do about it. | | | |
| Remain petition on 13:00 - Mar 27 with 1754 views | chad |
| Remain petition on 10:20 - Mar 27 by costalotta |
Given the apparent split throughout our country on this issue and the fact that nearly 6m people have got off their arses to express an opinion and the mobilisation of the effort is wow. This given the result of the Ref 3 years earlier, with a different parliament and under different conditions. Its extraordinary that its still fighting the right fight.
Now, as leaver its clearly not what you want to hear, I understand that. It must get under your skin, Your frightened you might loose Brexit! Again i understand. But I am sure you will agree, as you are clearly an intelligent person, the will of the people will come through in the end. For me, it was a huge step in that direction.
Also, this is people willing parliament on and supporting them with intelligence, humour, humility and momentum.
Whether you see a relevance or not is completely irrelevant to those 6m. |
Well probs not 6 million or whatever it is now, as I think we can safely say there will be at least some duplicate / invalid voting in there.
I also think we should stop categorising people, although I have seen a fair bit of rancour over the result of the referendum which I could not describe as intelligence, humour or humility. In fact very much the reverse. Momentum umm.
The problem is all about people not wanting to hear what others say and people stuck in their views and prejudices. Whereas balance will consider the pros and cons of things and make a decision, this will be true on both sides and there are those that can respect that.
I am happy to hear anything that will improve my understanding and am certainly not frightened. In fact if Brexit does not happen it could benefit me and my family personally. What makes me sad is the behaviour of some and the prejudice they show and the abuse they throw about.
Anyway none of that was required as you have completely misunderstood my post.
If you look back the post you said wow to was a link to something about a particular statistic relating to the number of votes against serving members majorities. The logic behind this comparison did not seem to hold relevance so I asked you to explain that as you had said wow in response to it. Simple as that. I wanted to better understand something that seemed to maske little solid sense to me. | | | |
| Remain petition on 13:01 - Mar 27 with 1749 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Remain petition on 11:56 - Mar 27 by Tom1912 |
Do you believe a narrow 52-48 remain win would not have lead to further campaigning from the leave side for another referendum?
Because Nigel Farage certainly believed it would in 2016:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36306681
Of course, he's changed his mind on this since. [Post edited 27 Mar 2019 11:57]
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I think there would have been campaigning from leave side, sure.
Would MPs be in HoC demanding a second referendum or Labour not being able to decide their views on it on a daily basis?
No. | | | |
| Remain petition on 13:06 - Mar 27 with 1741 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Remain petition on 13:00 - Mar 27 by chad |
Well probs not 6 million or whatever it is now, as I think we can safely say there will be at least some duplicate / invalid voting in there.
I also think we should stop categorising people, although I have seen a fair bit of rancour over the result of the referendum which I could not describe as intelligence, humour or humility. In fact very much the reverse. Momentum umm.
The problem is all about people not wanting to hear what others say and people stuck in their views and prejudices. Whereas balance will consider the pros and cons of things and make a decision, this will be true on both sides and there are those that can respect that.
I am happy to hear anything that will improve my understanding and am certainly not frightened. In fact if Brexit does not happen it could benefit me and my family personally. What makes me sad is the behaviour of some and the prejudice they show and the abuse they throw about.
Anyway none of that was required as you have completely misunderstood my post.
If you look back the post you said wow to was a link to something about a particular statistic relating to the number of votes against serving members majorities. The logic behind this comparison did not seem to hold relevance so I asked you to explain that as you had said wow in response to it. Simple as that. I wanted to better understand something that seemed to maske little solid sense to me. |
One of the reasons it’s so difficult to have a sensible conversation is the constant mistruths.
Just in the last couple of posts you’ve said our rebate is being withdrawn and someone else has said the EU has never been audited.
Both of those statements are factually incorrect. But when that’s pointed out, people just say ‘they are correct’. So how can you have any sort of sensible conversation when one side just continues to repeat stuff which is wrong? | | | |
| Remain petition on 13:08 - Mar 27 with 1741 views | chad |
| Remain petition on 12:06 - Mar 27 by costalotta |
You see to be struggling with a relatively simple concept and have come up with...well, nothing but wibling! [Post edited 27 Mar 2019 12:07]
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No think I got the concepts thanks
Not me describing a blackballing private members club as for us all and equal.
Neither am I confusing it with a continent ;) | | | |
| Remain petition on 13:18 - Mar 27 with 1731 views | Tom1912 |
| Remain petition on 13:01 - Mar 27 by bluey_the_blue |
I think there would have been campaigning from leave side, sure.
Would MPs be in HoC demanding a second referendum or Labour not being able to decide their views on it on a daily basis?
No. |
Eh? Of course there would, there are plenty of brexiteers in the HoC who wouldn't have dropped it.
As for Labour, I'm not defending them for a second, Corbyn has been useless. | | | |
| Remain petition on 13:28 - Mar 27 with 1718 views | costalotta |
| Remain petition on 13:08 - Mar 27 by chad |
No think I got the concepts thanks
Not me describing a blackballing private members club as for us all and equal.
Neither am I confusing it with a continent ;) |
I can see why you thought that, but I'm not confusing EU with the continent (Europe) but appreciate that the way i wrote that could confuse. But i'd hope that those intelligent enough would have understood the context.
As for blackballing private members club. Is the point your trying to make is that the EU treating its members differently? Or, is it the point you are making the decide who joins the EU club? | | | |
| Remain petition on 13:39 - Mar 27 with 1704 views | costalotta |
| Remain petition on 13:00 - Mar 27 by chad |
Well probs not 6 million or whatever it is now, as I think we can safely say there will be at least some duplicate / invalid voting in there.
I also think we should stop categorising people, although I have seen a fair bit of rancour over the result of the referendum which I could not describe as intelligence, humour or humility. In fact very much the reverse. Momentum umm.
The problem is all about people not wanting to hear what others say and people stuck in their views and prejudices. Whereas balance will consider the pros and cons of things and make a decision, this will be true on both sides and there are those that can respect that.
I am happy to hear anything that will improve my understanding and am certainly not frightened. In fact if Brexit does not happen it could benefit me and my family personally. What makes me sad is the behaviour of some and the prejudice they show and the abuse they throw about.
Anyway none of that was required as you have completely misunderstood my post.
If you look back the post you said wow to was a link to something about a particular statistic relating to the number of votes against serving members majorities. The logic behind this comparison did not seem to hold relevance so I asked you to explain that as you had said wow in response to it. Simple as that. I wanted to better understand something that seemed to maske little solid sense to me. |
Where have i 'categorised' people in my post?
As for intelligence, humour and humility... I was referring to both the petition and London on Saturday as well. I think thats been a fairly well accepted view of those who took part.
Intelligence - The petition (genius) and the march for the way it was organised and delivered, impact.
Humour - It was a good craic and people of all ages seemed to enjoy the day
Humility - didn't see any bitterness, nastiness, any ranting or similar. | | | |
| Remain petition on 19:27 - Mar 27 with 1656 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Remain petition on 11:56 - Mar 27 by Tom1912 |
Do you believe a narrow 52-48 remain win would not have lead to further campaigning from the leave side for another referendum?
Because Nigel Farage certainly believed it would in 2016:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36306681
Of course, he's changed his mind on this since. [Post edited 27 Mar 2019 11:57]
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We never got a second referendum on the Welsh assembly which was only won by a few thousand votes. | |
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| Remain petition on 19:31 - Mar 27 with 1651 views | longlostjack |
| Remain petition on 13:08 - Mar 27 by chad |
No think I got the concepts thanks
Not me describing a blackballing private members club as for us all and equal.
Neither am I confusing it with a continent ;) |
What’s your point about geographical Europe? It stretches to the Urals. What are you getting at? As for your reference to the difference between clicking heels and heel clicking again you’ve lost me. Irish Riverdance ? | |
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| Remain petition on 19:34 - Mar 27 with 1639 views | sherpajacob |
| Remain petition on 19:27 - Mar 27 by felixstowe_jack |
We never got a second referendum on the Welsh assembly which was only won by a few thousand votes. |
UkIP are asking for one. |  |
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| Remain petition on 07:50 - Mar 28 with 1575 views | WarwickHunt |
| Remain petition on 19:27 - Mar 27 by felixstowe_jack |
We never got a second referendum on the Welsh assembly which was only won by a few thousand votes. |
Point missed. Spectacularly. |  | | |
| Remain petition on 09:01 - Mar 28 with 1539 views | chad |
| Remain petition on 13:39 - Mar 27 by costalotta |
Where have i 'categorised' people in my post?
As for intelligence, humour and humility... I was referring to both the petition and London on Saturday as well. I think thats been a fairly well accepted view of those who took part.
Intelligence - The petition (genius) and the march for the way it was organised and delivered, impact.
Humour - It was a good craic and people of all ages seemed to enjoy the day
Humility - didn't see any bitterness, nastiness, any ranting or similar. |
Where did I say you had categorised people, it was a general comment about many comments that had been made catogorising both sides for e.g. those voting for Brexit are thick.
Intelligence, humour and humility - you did not mention the March at all when making that comment, you were talking about the petition in an earlier paragraph. So it just seemed a general comment about the way those against Brexit had conducted themselves and in that respect would be very inaccurate for some of the most vociferous.
But we still have not addressed my initial question which is, what about that link to which you were responding (which was specifically to details about a statistic linking poll votes to members majorities) made you say wow and add prise, when the stat to me seemed muddled in relation to any sound, relevant, significant point. | | | |
| Remain petition on 10:16 - Mar 28 with 1513 views | wobbly |
| Remain petition on 20:48 - Mar 26 by londonlisa2001 |
It’s neither the biggest mandate in terms of numbers nor percentage of the population eligible to vote.
They continue to pretend it is because they are (a) thick as sh*t or (b) so convinced the people supporting them are thick as sh*t they think they won’t notice.
The funny thing about the irritation brexit supporters have with remainers supposedly saying they are thick is that the people actually making that assumption repeatedly are the leaders of the pro Brexit groups. People like that silly boy Grimes who is sure that the people he’s appealing to won’t know Switzerland is in Schengen and won’t understand the difference between people and goods. |
I may have missed it in the thread but what was the bigger mandate? Genuine question. |  | | |
| Remain petition on 11:09 - Mar 28 with 1493 views | costalotta |
| Remain petition on 09:01 - Mar 28 by chad |
Where did I say you had categorised people, it was a general comment about many comments that had been made catogorising both sides for e.g. those voting for Brexit are thick.
Intelligence, humour and humility - you did not mention the March at all when making that comment, you were talking about the petition in an earlier paragraph. So it just seemed a general comment about the way those against Brexit had conducted themselves and in that respect would be very inaccurate for some of the most vociferous.
But we still have not addressed my initial question which is, what about that link to which you were responding (which was specifically to details about a statistic linking poll votes to members majorities) made you say wow and add prise, when the stat to me seemed muddled in relation to any sound, relevant, significant point. |
1. Niento
2. Context. Cant help you if can’t read between the lines, see the bigger picture, think outside the box.
3. Answered. You don’t agree or like it that’s your prerogative.
So it’s not exit day on the 29th March then? | | | |
| Remain petition on 13:43 - Mar 28 with 1463 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Remain petition on 10:16 - Mar 28 by wobbly |
I may have missed it in the thread but what was the bigger mandate? Genuine question. |
1992 general election was bigger both in terms of number of votes (33,614,074 cf 33,551,983) and turnout (77.7% cf 72.2%).
There have been a number of occasions when the % of votes cast have given a far stronger mandate for an action. The first European referendum, for example, had stay in at 67%, also with a winning vote of 17.4m (about 30 thousand odd votes lower than the 2016 vote) but with an electorate that was a great deal smaller (6.5m fewer people eligible to vote). | | | |
| Remain petition on 14:36 - Mar 28 with 1429 views | wobbly |
| Remain petition on 13:43 - Mar 28 by londonlisa2001 |
1992 general election was bigger both in terms of number of votes (33,614,074 cf 33,551,983) and turnout (77.7% cf 72.2%).
There have been a number of occasions when the % of votes cast have given a far stronger mandate for an action. The first European referendum, for example, had stay in at 67%, also with a winning vote of 17.4m (about 30 thousand odd votes lower than the 2016 vote) but with an electorate that was a great deal smaller (6.5m fewer people eligible to vote). |
Thanks. Some of those figures genuinely surprised me.
Based on that, I don’t think it’s factually wrong to claim the ‘biggest mandate’ in the 2016 referendum as it’s clearly the biggest bloc vote for a single outcome ever. But I’m surprised how close it was to the vote to stay in in the original referendum. Thanks again. | | | |
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