| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? 08:42 - Jan 6 with 7494 views | AlfieMooresSon |
We've had mixed views on this, but if we sell two players in the window for say £10Million, can the investors simply take £8Million to recoup some of their money, and just say here's £2Million to spend?
Or are their rules in place to protect clubs from this?
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| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 10:31 - Jan 6 with 6090 views | jack247 |
They can’t do that. They could in theory pay Pearlman or one of their lackeys an £8m consultancy fee, but that would be exposed very quickly. | | | |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 10:37 - Jan 6 with 6079 views | jasper_T |
£8m would definitely be noticed if our majority owners tried to make is disappear anywhere but Andre Ayew's bank account. | | | |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 10:56 - Jan 6 with 6041 views | jack247 |
Of course. I don’t for a minute think they are embezzling. They just ran the club shambolically in the PL, then wrote us off as a bad investment as soon as we went down.
If we sell a player for £10m, from their point of view, it’s better in the club accounts than on the pitch, as it’s more tangible and makes us easier to sell. | | | |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 11:40 - Jan 6 with 5978 views | AlfieMooresSon |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 10:56 - Jan 6 by jack247 |
Of course. I don’t for a minute think they are embezzling. They just ran the club shambolically in the PL, then wrote us off as a bad investment as soon as we went down.
If we sell a player for £10m, from their point of view, it’s better in the club accounts than on the pitch, as it’s more tangible and makes us easier to sell. |
OK cheers, so as for asset stripping, pretty impossible other than Bonus/Consultancy type transactions? | | | |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 11:58 - Jan 6 with 5944 views | jack247 |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 11:40 - Jan 6 by AlfieMooresSon |
OK cheers, so as for asset stripping, pretty impossible other than Bonus/Consultancy type transactions? |
Yeah. They can’t take money out of the club simply because they own (some of) it, if that’s the question. | | | |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 12:18 - Jan 6 with 5891 views | Swanjaxs |
Any money made in any sale of players will be taken.
Not one penny will be made available for team strengthening. |  |
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| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 12:23 - Jan 6 with 5878 views | jack247 |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 12:18 - Jan 6 by Swanjaxs |
Any money made in any sale of players will be taken.
Not one penny will be made available for team strengthening. |
Not directly/legally it won’t be.
Second sentence is a different argument, but yeah, they will invest the bare minimum of the clubs revenue into the team. | | | |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 13:33 - Jan 6 with 5756 views | TenbySwan |
What the Glazers did at Manchester United apparently was charge millions in 'Director's Fees' to the Club.
I am sure there are plenty of 'legal ' things that they can do. |  | | |
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| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 13:51 - Jan 6 with 5726 views | jasper_T |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 13:33 - Jan 6 by TenbySwan |
What the Glazers did at Manchester United apparently was charge millions in 'Director's Fees' to the Club.
I am sure there are plenty of 'legal ' things that they can do. |
Man Utd pay semi-annual dividends to shareholders (75% owned by the Glazers). Hidden directors fees are a drop in the bucket when they're visibly paying out £10/15m from the club's coffers twice a year. | | | |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 13:54 - Jan 6 with 5715 views | Wingstandwood |
This link will make for an interesting read. https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/uk-sports/2018/02/02/karl-oyston-replaced-a
....If there has been transparency and honesty from our board? Then obviously No! But from time to time stuff (like with link) stuff gets alleged.
Quote: By then, however, he had been in dispute with fellow directors Owen Oyston and his son Karl for more than a year over claims they had taken £27million out of the club after their season in the Premier League in 2010/11. Owen Oyston, for example, paid himself a director’s salary of £11million.
After months of wrangling between the parties, Justice Marcus Smith agreed with Belokon and ordered the Oystons to pay him more than £31million, plus costs, for “illegitimate stripping” of the club and “fundamental breaches” of their duties as directors. [Post edited 6 Jan 2020 14:20]
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| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 14:42 - Jan 6 with 5663 views | AlfieMooresSon |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 13:54 - Jan 6 by Wingstandwood |
This link will make for an interesting read. https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/uk-sports/2018/02/02/karl-oyston-replaced-a
....If there has been transparency and honesty from our board? Then obviously No! But from time to time stuff (like with link) stuff gets alleged.
Quote: By then, however, he had been in dispute with fellow directors Owen Oyston and his son Karl for more than a year over claims they had taken £27million out of the club after their season in the Premier League in 2010/11. Owen Oyston, for example, paid himself a director’s salary of £11million.
After months of wrangling between the parties, Justice Marcus Smith agreed with Belokon and ordered the Oystons to pay him more than £31million, plus costs, for “illegitimate stripping” of the club and “fundamental breaches” of their duties as directors. [Post edited 6 Jan 2020 14:20]
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OK, cheers that's interesting! | | | |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 14:46 - Jan 6 with 5654 views | NotLoyal |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 14:42 - Jan 6 by AlfieMooresSon |
OK, cheers that's interesting! |
Father and son in dispute over money gives a clear insight in to their greed. I detest people who take their lives for granted and live like this. |  |
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| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 14:52 - Jan 6 with 5649 views | AlfieMooresSon |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 14:46 - Jan 6 by NotLoyal |
Father and son in dispute over money gives a clear insight in to their greed. I detest people who take their lives for granted and live like this. |
Yes, terrible owners, they were! | | | |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 15:00 - Jan 6 with 5632 views | Best_loser |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 14:52 - Jan 6 by AlfieMooresSon |
Yes, terrible owners, they were! |
Can't be many clubs with a convicted rapist as owner |  | | |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 15:06 - Jan 6 with 5612 views | Dr_Winston |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 12:23 - Jan 6 by jack247 |
Not directly/legally it won’t be.
Second sentence is a different argument, but yeah, they will invest the bare minimum of the clubs revenue into the team. |
Yup. There are a multitude of reasons why they can't just take money out of the club.
The Glazers can pay themselves dividends because they are the sole owners of Man Utd. If Kaplan and co wanted to pay themselves dividends they'd have to pay the same to the Trust as shareholders.
Any "management fees" will be in the club's accounts. They'll have to be. I'm fairly confident that there won't be anything significant in there at all. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 15:09 - Jan 6 with 5600 views | jasper_T |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 15:06 - Jan 6 by Dr_Winston |
Yup. There are a multitude of reasons why they can't just take money out of the club.
The Glazers can pay themselves dividends because they are the sole owners of Man Utd. If Kaplan and co wanted to pay themselves dividends they'd have to pay the same to the Trust as shareholders.
Any "management fees" will be in the club's accounts. They'll have to be. I'm fairly confident that there won't be anything significant in there at all. |
40 million shares in United are publicly traded (out of 165m). The Glazers own 75%. The club is profitable enough that they don't care who else gets paid, as long as they do. | | | |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 15:59 - Jan 6 with 5552 views | TimTtam |
If the yanks want to operate within the law, they can't take money from the club. They may well be doing it, but I doubt they'd take that risk.
Their goal at this stage is to get the club to have the highest market value possible. This means debt-free. If the academy training grounds and/or players need to be sold to ensure the goal is met, they will do so. But, to be honest, it's in their interests to ensure that the academy remains Cat 1, and that the training facilities aren't sold. It will mean Swansea City AFC is a more attractive prospect. If excess cash is made from player sales, as was mentioned earlier, it will simply sit in the bank, ready for the new owners to spend, thus making it a more attractive prospect. |  |
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| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 16:11 - Jan 6 with 5527 views | jasper_T |
Considering how much money we've been borrowing from banks every year (the owners themselves last season at near bank rates) the idea that transfer income is just going to sit in a bank account to look pretty is a bit fantastic. People need paying and we constantly have to borrow to make it happen. Hundreds of grand a year goes out as interest and bank charges on the accounts. | | | |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 16:23 - Jan 6 with 5500 views | whiterock |
Didn't the Glaziers at United borrow the money to purchase the club? ie United up for sale for £1bn, Glaziers borrow the money, club pays back borrowing over time, cost to the Glazier's, zero [Post edited 6 Jan 2020 16:26]
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| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 16:47 - Jan 6 with 5473 views | Dr_Winston |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 15:09 - Jan 6 by jasper_T |
40 million shares in United are publicly traded (out of 165m). The Glazers own 75%. The club is profitable enough that they don't care who else gets paid, as long as they do. |
You are correct that they don't soley own the club anymore. Forgot about that. I believe that they're lesser shares which don't attract the same priveliges as those retained by the Glazers. Not sure how that affects dividends. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 16:53 - Jan 6 with 5458 views | Wingstandwood |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 14:52 - Jan 6 by AlfieMooresSon |
Yes, terrible owners, they were! |
Shite happens!
It's amazing how some clubs can strike it lucky like Blackburn Rovers for example i.e. Jack Walker bankrolling the club into the Premier League, bankrolling a Premier League title and bankrolling a stand-by-stand rebuild of Ewood Park.
On the other hand there is SCFC and other clubs.....Ladies and gentlemen may I unveil to you.....A bunch of greedy venture capitalists that have been wrongfully portrayed by some as philanthropic investors putting their own non-returnable money up front to build a club .
Jenkins and Co only bought shares to resell later, profiteered from internal patronage with awarding of contracts and six figure sum salary rewards...And then betrayed the supporters by handing over the club to another bunch of selfish b@stards... Personal gain being sole priority.
Love the devious and blatant subterfuge used via media/papers and programme notes from Jenkins and Co with ambiguous/misleading bullsh1t saying stuff like "We've invested in training facilities".
Nah, the money that paid for that was taken out of the club itself and not chairman/directors bank accounts. And even then it was engineered for personal gain... FFS it was Swansea City Supporters Trust donation(s) that paid for a storage-container-unit at Llandarcy, 'The Battle For Britton' Fund, Robbie James bust, Ivor Allchurch statue, ATFV donations for Pennock treatment bench etc. That says it all! | |
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| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 16:58 - Jan 6 with 5453 views | jasper_T |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 16:47 - Jan 6 by Dr_Winston |
You are correct that they don't soley own the club anymore. Forgot about that. I believe that they're lesser shares which don't attract the same priveliges as those retained by the Glazers. Not sure how that affects dividends. |
Both class a and b shares pay a quarterly return of $0.045 per share. The difference in privileges extends to the voting rights with the total number of class b shares always representing 67% of any vote (a fancy way of letting them generate more shares without having to buy more themselves to maintain their majorities, I guess). | | | |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 17:11 - Jan 6 with 5411 views | TenbySwan |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 13:51 - Jan 6 by jasper_T |
Man Utd pay semi-annual dividends to shareholders (75% owned by the Glazers). Hidden directors fees are a drop in the bucket when they're visibly paying out £10/15m from the club's coffers twice a year. |
They bought the club for around 800m , the debt fell to under 300m but now up over 1 billion again, the main reason given was extensive Director's fees.
Edit. At the time of the takeover, some United fans set up the 'FC United of Manchester ' saying that they had paid for Man Utd once and were not going g to pay for it again for the Glazers.
In our case the lack of comprehensive accounts being available at the very least to the Trust as Major shareholders increases suspicion about what is happening with regards to income and expenditure.
ALL SHAREHOLDERS SHOULD SURELY KNOW ALL OF A COMPANY/CLUB 's income and expenditure and profit or loss for any year. Half year or even quarter? [Post edited 6 Jan 2020 17:29]
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| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 17:19 - Jan 6 with 5394 views | AlfieMooresSon |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 16:23 - Jan 6 by whiterock |
Didn't the Glaziers at United borrow the money to purchase the club? ie United up for sale for £1bn, Glaziers borrow the money, club pays back borrowing over time, cost to the Glazier's, zero [Post edited 6 Jan 2020 16:26]
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Unbelievable, the cheek of some of these people! | | | |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 17:22 - Jan 6 with 5382 views | AlfieMooresSon |
| How easy is it for the investors to take money out of the club? on 15:59 - Jan 6 by TimTtam |
If the yanks want to operate within the law, they can't take money from the club. They may well be doing it, but I doubt they'd take that risk.
Their goal at this stage is to get the club to have the highest market value possible. This means debt-free. If the academy training grounds and/or players need to be sold to ensure the goal is met, they will do so. But, to be honest, it's in their interests to ensure that the academy remains Cat 1, and that the training facilities aren't sold. It will mean Swansea City AFC is a more attractive prospect. If excess cash is made from player sales, as was mentioned earlier, it will simply sit in the bank, ready for the new owners to spend, thus making it a more attractive prospect. |
If we don't go up what will happen then?
It looks like they are well stuffed and will be looking for a way out, but who would buy us from next year onwards with the player's values dropping due to contracts being run down?
It looks like a big loss, I can't work out how this will play out long term? | | | |
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