| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:00 - Mar 2 with 7649 views | Northernr |
I fcking hate that sentiment in general, like you say pure Redknapp speak and absolute rubbish, but I do agree that the formation is not the main problem away from home. We just completely lack any belief or confidence that we're going to get a result. There's no tempo, no belief, no aggression. There's no determination to stop them scoring and even dig in for a 0-0. |  | |  |
| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:01 - Mar 2 with 7645 views | PunteR |
Ollie is spot on if you read the whole thing. Yes actions speak louder then words etc but what else is he suppose to say.? |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:06 - Mar 2 with 7626 views | paulparker |
| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:00 - Mar 2 by Northernr |
I fcking hate that sentiment in general, like you say pure Redknapp speak and absolute rubbish, but I do agree that the formation is not the main problem away from home. We just completely lack any belief or confidence that we're going to get a result. There's no tempo, no belief, no aggression. There's no determination to stop them scoring and even dig in for a 0-0. |
We just completely lack any belief or confidence that we're going to get a result. There's no tempo, no belief, no aggression. There's no determination to stop them scoring and even dig in for a 0-0.
Err isn't that the job of the manager to set up his team and give them the belief and the aggression to do that very thing ? |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:07 - Mar 2 with 7621 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:01 - Mar 2 by PunteR |
Ollie is spot on if you read the whole thing. Yes actions speak louder then words etc but what else is he suppose to say.? |
Agreed.
I think sometimes people are a bit snobby towards Holloway. He may occasionally get his words mixed up but I never have a problem understanding him and tactically he makes as much sense as most managers and is far more interesting and honest than most. |  |
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| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:19 - Mar 2 with 7559 views | daveB |
He's right in what he says in this article though, not sure why you are looking to pick holes in it.
If he changed to this magic formation which is going to make everything better with the same players we'll still struggle if the team don't press and try and win the ball back or give the opposition space to play around our box |  | | |
| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:21 - Mar 2 with 7547 views | daveB |
| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:06 - Mar 2 by paulparker |
We just completely lack any belief or confidence that we're going to get a result. There's no tempo, no belief, no aggression. There's no determination to stop them scoring and even dig in for a 0-0.
Err isn't that the job of the manager to set up his team and give them the belief and the aggression to do that very thing ? |
partly but all down to the players when the game starts, I don't think he is telling them to play like arseholes away from home | | | |
| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:28 - Mar 2 with 7514 views | TacticalR |
| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:21 - Mar 2 by daveB |
partly but all down to the players when the game starts, I don't think he is telling them to play like arseholes away from home |
That would be very unwise. |  |
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| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:33 - Mar 2 with 7505 views | 1JD |
| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:07 - Mar 2 by BrianMcCarthy |
Agreed.
I think sometimes people are a bit snobby towards Holloway. He may occasionally get his words mixed up but I never have a problem understanding him and tactically he makes as much sense as most managers and is far more interesting and honest than most. |
Sure I read the whole thing. He talks about having gaps, but it’s not about the formation. Very Redknapp-esque “it’s not about systems, it’s about players”.
So the gaps are nothing to do with having wing backs who can’t actually play wing back?
The complete lack of defensive to attacking transition is nothing to do with having Bidwell as a key man?
The nullified directness and willingness to take a man on by Pav is nothing to do with the fact he has no one behind him?
The complete lack of creativity in our passing game is nothing to do with having 3 centre mids sitting on top of one another, with zero movement?
Of course it’s about systems and formations. To suggest otherwise shows a complete disregard for the role of strategy, game plan, and tactics in the name of winning football matches.
Holloway is in denial. Not a good sign. |  | | |
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| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:41 - Mar 2 with 7479 views | 1JD |
| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:00 - Mar 2 by Northernr |
I fcking hate that sentiment in general, like you say pure Redknapp speak and absolute rubbish, but I do agree that the formation is not the main problem away from home. We just completely lack any belief or confidence that we're going to get a result. There's no tempo, no belief, no aggression. There's no determination to stop them scoring and even dig in for a 0-0. |
Perhaps just perhaps the lack of belief comes from the fact that the players don’t believe in the system they are being asked to play? Which also means they might not believe in Holloway himself?
Anyone at Bristol City away would see the complete lack of trust in passing out wide to bidwell for example - my mate who came to the game said it stuck out like a sore thumb, and I had to agree. A kind of exasperated “oh why bother, I’m better off finding a different route cos that ain’t comin to nothing”. We’ve all been there, even in amateur football, when you don’t pass to a team mate cos you know it will break down. And to be clear this is not an attack on Bidwell, I think he can do a reasonable job at full back, but he has no place further up the field, or to he trusted with the whole left hand side | | | |
| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:43 - Mar 2 with 7459 views | daveB |
| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:33 - Mar 2 by 1JD |
Sure I read the whole thing. He talks about having gaps, but it’s not about the formation. Very Redknapp-esque “it’s not about systems, it’s about players”.
So the gaps are nothing to do with having wing backs who can’t actually play wing back?
The complete lack of defensive to attacking transition is nothing to do with having Bidwell as a key man?
The nullified directness and willingness to take a man on by Pav is nothing to do with the fact he has no one behind him?
The complete lack of creativity in our passing game is nothing to do with having 3 centre mids sitting on top of one another, with zero movement?
Of course it’s about systems and formations. To suggest otherwise shows a complete disregard for the role of strategy, game plan, and tactics in the name of winning football matches.
Holloway is in denial. Not a good sign. |
Well he didn't say it was nothing to do with tactics, just not all to do with it.
Look at how good Man City were last night yet they played the same tactics last year and were shit, difference is the players are implementing it better this year and have more confidence | | | |
| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:46 - Mar 2 with 7443 views | PunteR |
| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:21 - Mar 2 by daveB |
partly but all down to the players when the game starts, I don't think he is telling them to play like arseholes away from home |
maybe thats where he's going wrong.? | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:54 - Mar 2 with 7412 views | 1JD |
| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:43 - Mar 2 by daveB |
Well he didn't say it was nothing to do with tactics, just not all to do with it.
Look at how good Man City were last night yet they played the same tactics last year and were shit, difference is the players are implementing it better this year and have more confidence |
I have no problem in drilling a system into the players, but surely that system has to be a good fit for the players you have available. I personally like the 3-5-2, as a system, but believe it to be the hardest one to pull off. You are effectively asking the wing backs to do the job of 2 players. A tough ask, even if you are highly talented with a diversified skill set.
The problem for me is we don’t have the players to make this system work effectively, hence bumpy results, and generally dire football. It is our Plan A, but how often to we revert to Plan B (a different system), upon going 2 behind. Where we actually start to believe and play a bit | | | |
| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:57 - Mar 2 with 7389 views | DejR_vu |
If I've understood that correctly, he's saying that it's not about formations, it's about the players knowing what to do and where to be. But isn't that a variation on the same theme i.e. it's about what the players do on the pitch?
So he's saying he's telling them what he wants but they're not doing it. So why might that be:
- they can't be bothered? - doesn't look like it
- they're not capable of taking instructions on board - they're all experienced, so unlikely
- they're wilfully ignoring him - possibly, but why?
Maybe he's not getting his point across? How many times do we see players looking confused, going over to the bench to ask questions, arms outstretched? Or, possibly, he doesn't actually know and he's looking for things in a video and when he sees some things he uses them as an explanation.
Good teams play coherently, to a system that works for them, with confidence. We do none of those things. His record since he's come back isn't a coincidence. | |
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| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:57 - Mar 2 with 7389 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:33 - Mar 2 by 1JD |
Sure I read the whole thing. He talks about having gaps, but it’s not about the formation. Very Redknapp-esque “it’s not about systems, it’s about players”.
So the gaps are nothing to do with having wing backs who can’t actually play wing back?
The complete lack of defensive to attacking transition is nothing to do with having Bidwell as a key man?
The nullified directness and willingness to take a man on by Pav is nothing to do with the fact he has no one behind him?
The complete lack of creativity in our passing game is nothing to do with having 3 centre mids sitting on top of one another, with zero movement?
Of course it’s about systems and formations. To suggest otherwise shows a complete disregard for the role of strategy, game plan, and tactics in the name of winning football matches.
Holloway is in denial. Not a good sign. |
I wasn't saying you in particular, 1JD, it was more a general comment about Holloway's supposed cleverness that we sometimes hear. Which I think is inaccurate.
edit - spell check. [Post edited 2 Mar 2018 12:58]
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| Holloway: It's not about formations on 13:07 - Mar 2 with 7339 views | davman |
| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:28 - Mar 2 by TacticalR |
That would be very unwise. |
Ah, but they are just a bunch of kids and we know how reverse psychology works on such precious little flowers, don't we?
...or do we?
(see what I did there...)??? |  |
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| Holloway: It's not about formations on 13:08 - Mar 2 with 7335 views | makaveli1882 |
When I was in Oz I paid to watch the Millwall game on player (fell asleep during it) also paid for the Cardiff game but that didn't work.
Anyway Sintom mentioned something along the lines of always staying in the game for 20 minutes without letting in goal and taking it from the there for the away games, think this is a club thought ie Les, Sinton and Ollie.
The problem is we're are just not good enough, going one down we will crumble and have no second plan, we will apply the same tactics tomorrow and loss easily.
Would be nice if went for it in the first 20 minutes and went one up so the fans and pressure turn on them. | | | |
| Holloway: It's not about formations on 13:12 - Mar 2 with 7321 views | Hayesender |
"Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes”
Brian Clough |  |
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| Holloway: It's not about formations on 13:22 - Mar 2 with 7266 views | Mick_S |
| Holloway: It's not about formations on 13:12 - Mar 2 by Hayesender |
"Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes”
Brian Clough |
Hallelujah brother.
Formations shmormations. |  |
| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| Holloway: It's not about formations on 13:24 - Mar 2 with 7251 views | WestbourneR |
| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:00 - Mar 2 by Northernr |
I fcking hate that sentiment in general, like you say pure Redknapp speak and absolute rubbish, but I do agree that the formation is not the main problem away from home. We just completely lack any belief or confidence that we're going to get a result. There's no tempo, no belief, no aggression. There's no determination to stop them scoring and even dig in for a 0-0. |
But North the two things are inextricably linked.
If you have the right formation, right players on the right positions taking up good spaces on the pitch and offering options then you start to play with more zip and tempo, confidence oozes through when you're in possession.
On the other hand, if when you have the ball, you look up and there is a narrow shapeless mess in front of you - with no options - then you hesitate, you turn backwasds, you take too long, you pass square.
It's a cumulative affect.
The formation is not the be all and end all but it is a huge part of the problem and the sooner it is fixed the better it will be for the players. They're dying in the current system.
At the moment, if the players don't run around like absolute nutters for 90mins trying to force a mistake they get nothing. We create nothing. Work-rate is crucial part of any plan but it can not be the whole plan [Post edited 2 Mar 2018 13:32]
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| Holloway: It's not about formations on 13:27 - Mar 2 with 7242 views | loneranger1 |
| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:57 - Mar 2 by DejR_vu |
If I've understood that correctly, he's saying that it's not about formations, it's about the players knowing what to do and where to be. But isn't that a variation on the same theme i.e. it's about what the players do on the pitch?
So he's saying he's telling them what he wants but they're not doing it. So why might that be:
- they can't be bothered? - doesn't look like it
- they're not capable of taking instructions on board - they're all experienced, so unlikely
- they're wilfully ignoring him - possibly, but why?
Maybe he's not getting his point across? How many times do we see players looking confused, going over to the bench to ask questions, arms outstretched? Or, possibly, he doesn't actually know and he's looking for things in a video and when he sees some things he uses them as an explanation.
Good teams play coherently, to a system that works for them, with confidence. We do none of those things. His record since he's come back isn't a coincidence. |
Have to say that point about players going over to the bench to work out what's going on is something I've noticed. I sat in the Paddocks for the Bolton home game (I'm usually in R Block or Lower Loft when I take my little one) and was amazed at the number of times Freeman, Lynch and Scowen were over at the bench. Freeman in particular always looked a bit puzzled...
I don't think we gain anything by parting with Ollie now (my preference is for an amicable agreement at the end of the season if we can find a suitable candidate to take over) - but I do wonder about how clearly he gets ideas across to players, and I worry about the inflexibility of the "plan A", as highlighted above. Hard to deny the number of goals we've scored when we've changed the system - usuallly after going behind. | | | |
| Holloway: It's not about formations on 13:30 - Mar 2 with 7221 views | WestbourneR |
| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:57 - Mar 2 by BrianMcCarthy |
I wasn't saying you in particular, 1JD, it was more a general comment about Holloway's supposed cleverness that we sometimes hear. Which I think is inaccurate.
edit - spell check. [Post edited 2 Mar 2018 12:58]
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That was me Brian - and yeah - I don't think he's the sharpest tool. I'd be very happy to be shown a quote from Ollie that demonstrates his sharp thinking. Or a testimony from single player saying his insight into the game helped them. I haven't seen it. | |
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| Holloway: It's not about formations on 13:33 - Mar 2 with 7202 views | WestbourneR |
| Holloway: It's not about formations on 12:21 - Mar 2 by daveB |
partly but all down to the players when the game starts, I don't think he is telling them to play like arseholes away from home |
Dave that's a moot point - because it's his job to get the players performing.
Yes the players aren't performing but it's Ollie's job to make sure they are - otherwise he shouldn't be our manager. | |
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| Holloway: It's not about formations on 13:37 - Mar 2 with 7190 views | SimonJames |
After every bad result he seems to say something like "we have worked hard to address the issues which led to such a disappointing result".
So when will those issues have been fully addressed? |  |
| 100% of people who drink water will die. |
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| Holloway: It's not about formations on 13:41 - Mar 2 with 7175 views | Match82 |
Formations are far more fluid these days than they used to be. I agree, changing the formation isn't going to move the needle. But you can change the system, and the way the players are asked to play. Amount of pressing, whether players are asked to come short or go long in various situations, that should be something which you can change, and adjust accordingly to the opposition or game situation. Far more important in my view than saying "stick another one up front". |  | | |
| Holloway: It's not about formations on 13:46 - Mar 2 with 7153 views | Toast_R |
We're lacking bollocks. Have done for a number of seasons now. |  | | |
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