| Next firebreak 22:16 - Nov 16 with 18254 views | controversial_jack |
From a source at the Welsh assembly, 21st December. |  | | |  |
| Next firebreak on 20:36 - Nov 18 with 1347 views | Scotia |
| Next firebreak on 18:10 - Nov 18 by exhmrc1 |
They dont have to be comparable. They arent comparable with each other but closing the borders has worked for all of them. Keeping our borders hasnt worked for us , France and Spain. All of these countries are different yet all have achieved fantastic results in keeping the deaths down. We have gone with your system and have 70,000 more deaths than last year yet you think that is a price worth paying. It says it all really. Who really cares and who is happy seeing people suffer and die. |
They don't have to be comparable to compare them when It's you who is comparing them?????
So the pension. I think to pay for a year long lockdown we should divert the state pension to closed business and their employees and replace the payment of pension with a meal delivery service and direct payment of rent / utilities.
Would you be happy with that? | | | |
| Next firebreak on 21:10 - Nov 18 with 1329 views | exhmrc1 |
What does my pension have to do with you and what impact has it to do with the amount of deaths. Tens of thousands of deaths more that you support. | | | |
| Next firebreak on 21:23 - Nov 18 with 1321 views | Scotia |
| Next firebreak on 21:10 - Nov 18 by exhmrc1 |
What does my pension have to do with you and what impact has it to do with the amount of deaths. Tens of thousands of deaths more that you support. |
Because you are not impacted by lockdown at all. It is easy for you to sit there creaming money off the state whilst telling other people they should be happy to take home 80% of their minimum wage salary to keep you safe.
You do realise that the people impacted by the industries you want to shut down for a year are the lowest paid in society? I don't know why I asked that, you have no idea. It is all about you.
I suspect that if you were directly impacted by restrictions then you would have a different attitude.
Just for clarification, I am working from home and on my full salary. Which is fortunate as I'll probably have to help my sisters in law through Xmas as they are literally living hand to mouth. [Post edited 18 Nov 2020 21:24]
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| Next firebreak on 21:35 - Nov 18 with 1310 views | Catullus |
| Next firebreak on 16:58 - Nov 18 by exhmrc1 |
Clearly the evidence shows the UK is not doing anywhere near as well. The fact is Singapore for example is a city state. People live far closer together than we do here. Somewhere like Australia and I assume New Zealand is far more rural than us. Auckland is still bigger than anyone of our cities other than London. Similarly Australia has 5 cities bigger than our second city and most of its residents live in Melbourne, Sydney, Perth, Adelaide and Brisbane. The fact is that these countries are different to each other. Singapore is totally different to Australia. Both have the same policy. Keep out the virus and dont allow people in and it works for both. Then you somehow think we are above what clearly works elsewhere. Has it ever dawned on you the far eastern countries have learned from previous viruses and we havent. |
Auckland has a population of less than 1.7 million but New Zealand is less than 5 million. There are more people in London. Australia, less than 27 million, less than half the UK in a country 30 times the size of the UK. Singapore (again) is a much more controlled and obeyant society who will wear masks with barely a second thought.
You are not comparing like with like. | |
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| Next firebreak on 22:10 - Nov 18 with 1301 views | exhmrc1 |
| Next firebreak on 21:35 - Nov 18 by Catullus |
Auckland has a population of less than 1.7 million but New Zealand is less than 5 million. There are more people in London. Australia, less than 27 million, less than half the UK in a country 30 times the size of the UK. Singapore (again) is a much more controlled and obeyant society who will wear masks with barely a second thought.
You are not comparing like with like. |
Totally wrong. The vast amount of the population live in the 5 biggest cities. 5.3 million in Sydney. 5 million in Melbourne. 2.4 million in Brisbane. 2 million in Perth and Adelaide 1.4 million. Over 16 million live in 5 cities and that doesnt include other large towns like Hobart, Canberra and Darwin. Most Australians live in major city. Very few live in large parts of the centre. All 5 cities have larger populations than Birmingham and from a Welsh perspective each of the 2 biggest cities are 1 and 1/3 times the population of Wales.
Auckland has a population of 1/3 that of New Zealand compared to London which has 1/9 the population of the Uk. It is bigger than every city in the UK from London. As a ratio of the overall population it is greater than Cardiff is to Wales also
As for Singapore it is a city state with 5.8 million people. It is the 2nd most densely populated country in the World.
They might be totally different and worlds apart from each other but the fact is that all have extremely low death rates and all closed their borders. Singapore has masses of foreigners working there. 200,000 from the Phillipines alone wiith loads from places like Malaysia, China, Thailand, USA, UK and many other nations. No different to us. In hotels in Singapore you are served by Fillipinos whether it be bars restaurants or shops.
Yet we are told by you and Scotia that we cannot close borders. Yet Australia, New Zealand and Singapore have all done it with great success along with others. The reality is that you and your fellow Tories dont want to take the one action that has been proven in various countries to work. These countries have also been able to keep businesses open in a way we havent hear. There are clearly lessons to be learned elsewhere in the world which you and Scotia are not prepared to due to your Tory ideas. | | | |
| Next firebreak on 22:25 - Nov 18 with 1292 views | Catullus |
| Next firebreak on 22:10 - Nov 18 by exhmrc1 |
Totally wrong. The vast amount of the population live in the 5 biggest cities. 5.3 million in Sydney. 5 million in Melbourne. 2.4 million in Brisbane. 2 million in Perth and Adelaide 1.4 million. Over 16 million live in 5 cities and that doesnt include other large towns like Hobart, Canberra and Darwin. Most Australians live in major city. Very few live in large parts of the centre. All 5 cities have larger populations than Birmingham and from a Welsh perspective each of the 2 biggest cities are 1 and 1/3 times the population of Wales.
Auckland has a population of 1/3 that of New Zealand compared to London which has 1/9 the population of the Uk. It is bigger than every city in the UK from London. As a ratio of the overall population it is greater than Cardiff is to Wales also
As for Singapore it is a city state with 5.8 million people. It is the 2nd most densely populated country in the World.
They might be totally different and worlds apart from each other but the fact is that all have extremely low death rates and all closed their borders. Singapore has masses of foreigners working there. 200,000 from the Phillipines alone wiith loads from places like Malaysia, China, Thailand, USA, UK and many other nations. No different to us. In hotels in Singapore you are served by Fillipinos whether it be bars restaurants or shops.
Yet we are told by you and Scotia that we cannot close borders. Yet Australia, New Zealand and Singapore have all done it with great success along with others. The reality is that you and your fellow Tories dont want to take the one action that has been proven in various countries to work. These countries have also been able to keep businesses open in a way we havent hear. There are clearly lessons to be learned elsewhere in the world which you and Scotia are not prepared to due to your Tory ideas. |
Oh no pal, not letting that slip. I haven't said we shouldn't close borders. I think we should have. I just believe we should have closed pubs but kept shops open because of the science ( we were told) that it's spreading in pubs but not in shops.
Where you are not comparing like with like is in the countries themselves. It is much easier for Aus, NZ and South Sea islands to close borders because of their geography. The UK is a major international hub, millions of people pass through the UK every month, over 200k went through Heathrow every day until covid closed down flights though numbers have risen since the first lockdown. | |
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| Next firebreak on 22:53 - Nov 18 with 1283 views | exhmrc1 |
| Next firebreak on 22:25 - Nov 18 by Catullus |
Oh no pal, not letting that slip. I haven't said we shouldn't close borders. I think we should have. I just believe we should have closed pubs but kept shops open because of the science ( we were told) that it's spreading in pubs but not in shops.
Where you are not comparing like with like is in the countries themselves. It is much easier for Aus, NZ and South Sea islands to close borders because of their geography. The UK is a major international hub, millions of people pass through the UK every month, over 200k went through Heathrow every day until covid closed down flights though numbers have risen since the first lockdown. |
I actually agree with closing pubs and keeping shops open. I have been arguing that for months. The evidence clearly showed that when shops reopened the figures still went down and that was when masks were hardly being worn. Since we opened borders followed by pubs the figures have gone haywire. In July Morriston Hospital didnt have a single covid case. The figures today show that Swansea Bay Health Board has 270 inpatients most of whom are probably in Morriston. This is going to rise for the next couple of weeks before reducing as it follows the trend of cases usually about 3 weeks later.
That is 9 wards full of coronavirus patients that cannot be used for other purposes.
As far as being an international hub so is Changi. It has 67 million passengers a year passing through it just short of Heathrow's 81 but Singapore has a population of less than 1/10 of the UK. Changi is the main hub for Singapore Airlines but is also used by other airlines like Air New Zealand who code share flights as well as multiple airlines travelling into Asia.
The fact that is close to Europe really isnt an issue. There is a distinct border between the UK and the rest of the world just like Singapore and if you want to use them Australia and New Zealand.
Singapore is 235 miles from Malaysia not a massive a distance. Far less than the distance from the UK to Spain, Denmark, Portugal or Germany. There a couple of European countries closer but generally it is no different than Singapore to Malaysia. | | | |
| Next firebreak on 23:22 - Nov 18 with 1273 views | Treforys_Jack |
Where I work, we have strict 2m distancing, PPE equipment including face masks. This isn't watertight as people will be people, however we have restrictions on numbers in the restrooms and offices to ensure the 2m is adhered to. Then after work any 4 of us can go to the pub and sit around a table with no distance between the group whatsoever, absolute madness. |  | | |
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| Next firebreak on 09:23 - Nov 19 with 1243 views | Scotia |
| Next firebreak on 22:53 - Nov 18 by exhmrc1 |
I actually agree with closing pubs and keeping shops open. I have been arguing that for months. The evidence clearly showed that when shops reopened the figures still went down and that was when masks were hardly being worn. Since we opened borders followed by pubs the figures have gone haywire. In July Morriston Hospital didnt have a single covid case. The figures today show that Swansea Bay Health Board has 270 inpatients most of whom are probably in Morriston. This is going to rise for the next couple of weeks before reducing as it follows the trend of cases usually about 3 weeks later.
That is 9 wards full of coronavirus patients that cannot be used for other purposes.
As far as being an international hub so is Changi. It has 67 million passengers a year passing through it just short of Heathrow's 81 but Singapore has a population of less than 1/10 of the UK. Changi is the main hub for Singapore Airlines but is also used by other airlines like Air New Zealand who code share flights as well as multiple airlines travelling into Asia.
The fact that is close to Europe really isnt an issue. There is a distinct border between the UK and the rest of the world just like Singapore and if you want to use them Australia and New Zealand.
Singapore is 235 miles from Malaysia not a massive a distance. Far less than the distance from the UK to Spain, Denmark, Portugal or Germany. There a couple of European countries closer but generally it is no different than Singapore to Malaysia. |
That isn't what the evidence showed - it is what your baffling interpretation of the evidence showed. Similar to your link between cases rising and masks being mandated. There are huge variables to consider.
Heathrow is far more than a hub, Changi is a hub, Heathrow is a destination. Just consider how completely dependent we are on immigrant labour and tourism compared to Singapore. Not forgetting the fact that many of the 66 million UK residents will be going abroad and returning to the UK, it is fair to guess that that figure alone is ten times greater than Singapore.
Of course our proximity to Europe is an issue - We were a drive-able distance from covid hotspots before we knew they were hotspots and there were 10's of thousands of Brits on holiday there at the time. That is not the case with Singapore, NZ or Australia.
Do you know what? If we could have completely closed our borders at the very first sign of the virus leaving China it could have worked, but that was totally impossible. After that it was completely pointless not allowing people in to the country from areas at less risk than most parts of the UK. | | | |
| Next firebreak on 09:32 - Nov 19 with 1239 views | Catullus |
| Next firebreak on 22:53 - Nov 18 by exhmrc1 |
I actually agree with closing pubs and keeping shops open. I have been arguing that for months. The evidence clearly showed that when shops reopened the figures still went down and that was when masks were hardly being worn. Since we opened borders followed by pubs the figures have gone haywire. In July Morriston Hospital didnt have a single covid case. The figures today show that Swansea Bay Health Board has 270 inpatients most of whom are probably in Morriston. This is going to rise for the next couple of weeks before reducing as it follows the trend of cases usually about 3 weeks later.
That is 9 wards full of coronavirus patients that cannot be used for other purposes.
As far as being an international hub so is Changi. It has 67 million passengers a year passing through it just short of Heathrow's 81 but Singapore has a population of less than 1/10 of the UK. Changi is the main hub for Singapore Airlines but is also used by other airlines like Air New Zealand who code share flights as well as multiple airlines travelling into Asia.
The fact that is close to Europe really isnt an issue. There is a distinct border between the UK and the rest of the world just like Singapore and if you want to use them Australia and New Zealand.
Singapore is 235 miles from Malaysia not a massive a distance. Far less than the distance from the UK to Spain, Denmark, Portugal or Germany. There a couple of European countries closer but generally it is no different than Singapore to Malaysia. |
Singapore is far different as a society than the UK though. They are more disciplined, the rules are stricter AND enforced quite harshly. Get caught with chewing gum in Singapore and you might get a hefty fine, up to $100,000 or even up to 2 years in prison. When the Singapore authorities say do something, not many will stand up and moan about civil rights being taken away or refuse to comply simply because they can.
In the UK there are thousands flouting the rules every day. | |
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| Next firebreak on 09:48 - Nov 19 with 1230 views | exhmrc1 |
| Next firebreak on 09:32 - Nov 19 by Catullus |
Singapore is far different as a society than the UK though. They are more disciplined, the rules are stricter AND enforced quite harshly. Get caught with chewing gum in Singapore and you might get a hefty fine, up to $100,000 or even up to 2 years in prison. When the Singapore authorities say do something, not many will stand up and moan about civil rights being taken away or refuse to comply simply because they can.
In the UK there are thousands flouting the rules every day. |
You are right about Singapore being more disciplined but Australia isnt much different to us. The bottom line is that it is matter for our government to set the rules but when they take risks it doesnt help. If the government had not let people in and closed the necessary areas the virus wouldnt have spread. That is nothing to do with peoples discipline.
There are some things that have led to spreading the virus and the catalyst was the opening of borders followed by opening pubs and it has risen ever since.
It probably didnt help opening schools and universities either but the effect would have been far less had we not opened pubs and borders. When universities opened and you had people moving from higher areas it spread in lower areas. It isnt really surprising it spreads more readily in students. They live in places of multiple occupancy and if one has it then it spreads amongst the whole household just like if I have it then it my wife get it and the same with you. | | | |
| Next firebreak on 09:57 - Nov 19 with 1213 views | felixstowe_jack |
Australia Also has the advantage of being the least densely populated continents, apart from Antarctica, so the spread of the virus could easily be spread. The UK is a major hub for air travel as well as having direct rail and ferry routes to the continent. As a result it was always going to spread.
I guess the UK could have closed all it's borders at the start of February even then the virus was probably in the UK by then. | |
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| Next firebreak on 10:11 - Nov 19 with 1221 views | Catullus |
| Next firebreak on 09:57 - Nov 19 by felixstowe_jack |
Australia Also has the advantage of being the least densely populated continents, apart from Antarctica, so the spread of the virus could easily be spread. The UK is a major hub for air travel as well as having direct rail and ferry routes to the continent. As a result it was always going to spread.
I guess the UK could have closed all it's borders at the start of February even then the virus was probably in the UK by then. |
The virus was quite probably in the Uk before China told the world, we're going around in circles with this but the French have proved they had it there a week before China mentioned the virus. It was in Europe, it must have been here. We have a Chinese population of close on 400 thousand many of whom will have travelled back to China and brought this virus home with them, they'll have spread it at the airport, in local shops, even on the streets.
I can accept allowing international travel for business but allowing holidays during a pandemic was a major mistake. They are following the science, we are constantly told yet the evidence doesn't back that up.
I don't think we could have closed our borders as easily as Australia, we are getting thousands of immigrants/refugees crossing the channel and unless we catch them before landfall they have a tendency to mingle, to wander around in the UK until they are caught.
We were slow to act, worried more about economics than lives with the end result possibly being a bigger impact on the economy than if we had jumped straight in with strict rules. Our governments inaction has cost the economy AND cost lives.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing though. Maybe we need to have a national action plan for when/if this happens again? It seems obvious that the governments own pandemic plan is not good enough, it was left to slide, they were apathetic about the possibility of a pandemic and they can't be so lax again. | |
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| Next firebreak on 11:00 - Nov 19 with 1215 views | controversial_jack |
| Next firebreak on 10:11 - Nov 19 by Catullus |
The virus was quite probably in the Uk before China told the world, we're going around in circles with this but the French have proved they had it there a week before China mentioned the virus. It was in Europe, it must have been here. We have a Chinese population of close on 400 thousand many of whom will have travelled back to China and brought this virus home with them, they'll have spread it at the airport, in local shops, even on the streets.
I can accept allowing international travel for business but allowing holidays during a pandemic was a major mistake. They are following the science, we are constantly told yet the evidence doesn't back that up.
I don't think we could have closed our borders as easily as Australia, we are getting thousands of immigrants/refugees crossing the channel and unless we catch them before landfall they have a tendency to mingle, to wander around in the UK until they are caught.
We were slow to act, worried more about economics than lives with the end result possibly being a bigger impact on the economy than if we had jumped straight in with strict rules. Our governments inaction has cost the economy AND cost lives.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing though. Maybe we need to have a national action plan for when/if this happens again? It seems obvious that the governments own pandemic plan is not good enough, it was left to slide, they were apathetic about the possibility of a pandemic and they can't be so lax again. |
Traces of the virus have been found in Italy from September. It probably started there and went to China, as there's no evidence it actually came from Wuhan | | | |
| Next firebreak on 11:05 - Nov 19 with 1214 views | onehunglow |
| Next firebreak on 09:32 - Nov 19 by Catullus |
Singapore is far different as a society than the UK though. They are more disciplined, the rules are stricter AND enforced quite harshly. Get caught with chewing gum in Singapore and you might get a hefty fine, up to $100,000 or even up to 2 years in prison. When the Singapore authorities say do something, not many will stand up and moan about civil rights being taken away or refuse to comply simply because they can.
In the UK there are thousands flouting the rules every day. |
Singapore has a law abiding nation of folk who know transgression of laws will result in unmerciful punishment.Just wish to God I could live there.
Imagine a country where people take control of their lives and take responsibility. | |
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| Next firebreak on 11:06 - Nov 19 with 1214 views | exhmrc1 |
| Next firebreak on 10:11 - Nov 19 by Catullus |
The virus was quite probably in the Uk before China told the world, we're going around in circles with this but the French have proved they had it there a week before China mentioned the virus. It was in Europe, it must have been here. We have a Chinese population of close on 400 thousand many of whom will have travelled back to China and brought this virus home with them, they'll have spread it at the airport, in local shops, even on the streets.
I can accept allowing international travel for business but allowing holidays during a pandemic was a major mistake. They are following the science, we are constantly told yet the evidence doesn't back that up.
I don't think we could have closed our borders as easily as Australia, we are getting thousands of immigrants/refugees crossing the channel and unless we catch them before landfall they have a tendency to mingle, to wander around in the UK until they are caught.
We were slow to act, worried more about economics than lives with the end result possibly being a bigger impact on the economy than if we had jumped straight in with strict rules. Our governments inaction has cost the economy AND cost lives.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing though. Maybe we need to have a national action plan for when/if this happens again? It seems obvious that the governments own pandemic plan is not good enough, it was left to slide, they were apathetic about the possibility of a pandemic and they can't be so lax again. |
The problem is that they didnt learn lessons and are still not. They want to open at Christmas. How much problems is that going to cause. They are talking about letting people go abroad on holidays for Christmas. That will cause problems again.
You say we couldnt close our borders like Australia did. Well Singapore did it and roughly 1/5 of its population are migrants. The problems with migrants is a minute problem when compared with the people arriving on ships, airlines or through the Channel Tunnel.
In the last couple of months we have had a Prime Minister telling people to go back to work rather than work from home. Nothing learnt there. We should be learning from other countries and the clear lesson is that closing borders in all these countries has saved lives. Singapore as an example has had 28 deaths for its near 6 million population. That is equivalent of just over 300 for the UK compared to the in excess of 50,000, 60,000 or 70,000 deaths in the UK depending on whether you use the government figures, ONS or the differences between this years figures and the average of the previous 5 years. | | | |
| Next firebreak on 11:13 - Nov 19 with 1210 views | onehunglow |
| Next firebreak on 11:06 - Nov 19 by exhmrc1 |
The problem is that they didnt learn lessons and are still not. They want to open at Christmas. How much problems is that going to cause. They are talking about letting people go abroad on holidays for Christmas. That will cause problems again.
You say we couldnt close our borders like Australia did. Well Singapore did it and roughly 1/5 of its population are migrants. The problems with migrants is a minute problem when compared with the people arriving on ships, airlines or through the Channel Tunnel.
In the last couple of months we have had a Prime Minister telling people to go back to work rather than work from home. Nothing learnt there. We should be learning from other countries and the clear lesson is that closing borders in all these countries has saved lives. Singapore as an example has had 28 deaths for its near 6 million population. That is equivalent of just over 300 for the UK compared to the in excess of 50,000, 60,000 or 70,000 deaths in the UK depending on whether you use the government figures, ONS or the differences between this years figures and the average of the previous 5 years. |
I agree . We are in lockdown but afterwards we go out and get hammered again ,spread the virus then start all over again.
Dumb aren't we | |
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| Next firebreak on 13:41 - Nov 19 with 1188 views | Catullus |
| Next firebreak on 11:06 - Nov 19 by exhmrc1 |
The problem is that they didnt learn lessons and are still not. They want to open at Christmas. How much problems is that going to cause. They are talking about letting people go abroad on holidays for Christmas. That will cause problems again.
You say we couldnt close our borders like Australia did. Well Singapore did it and roughly 1/5 of its population are migrants. The problems with migrants is a minute problem when compared with the people arriving on ships, airlines or through the Channel Tunnel.
In the last couple of months we have had a Prime Minister telling people to go back to work rather than work from home. Nothing learnt there. We should be learning from other countries and the clear lesson is that closing borders in all these countries has saved lives. Singapore as an example has had 28 deaths for its near 6 million population. That is equivalent of just over 300 for the UK compared to the in excess of 50,000, 60,000 or 70,000 deaths in the UK depending on whether you use the government figures, ONS or the differences between this years figures and the average of the previous 5 years. |
Are we following the science? I read it on the BBC website and seen it on the news. There were clear and obvious errors. One fella (missed his name) when questioned about nursing homes admitted the government/SAGE thought nursing homes were safe, thought they were shielded and din't know otherwise becuase they never checked. That is jutst negligence.
A different scientist says they were operating on flawed data because much of the data they used as current was actually a week old or even older. All of their actions were too late, behind the virus.
If Bojo had been following the science they would have had the national lockdown (the second one) 7 weeks earlier. The Welsh firebreak should have been 2 weeks earlier but Drakeford prevaricated, asked Bojo twice.
The most damning part, I think, is that the scientists are now saying if we had locked down a week earlier (the first one) it would have resulted in half the deaths.
Now on the Welsh news they are discussing what the effect of stopping NHS treatment to deal with Covid will be. The NHS Chief exec (Andrew Goodall) is saying they had made big improvements in waiting times in recent years, I know that's complete BS. I was told the wait for a hip replacement was about 12 months, 2 years later I was still waiting and then the effects of a certain medication on my liver caused further delays. Maybe I should sue? If I'd had the op in 12 months I wouldn't be so sick now, the NHS let me down and the people at the top still say it was doing fine. It's lies. | |
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| Next firebreak on 13:51 - Nov 19 with 1182 views | controversial_jack |
| Next firebreak on 13:41 - Nov 19 by Catullus |
Are we following the science? I read it on the BBC website and seen it on the news. There were clear and obvious errors. One fella (missed his name) when questioned about nursing homes admitted the government/SAGE thought nursing homes were safe, thought they were shielded and din't know otherwise becuase they never checked. That is jutst negligence.
A different scientist says they were operating on flawed data because much of the data they used as current was actually a week old or even older. All of their actions were too late, behind the virus.
If Bojo had been following the science they would have had the national lockdown (the second one) 7 weeks earlier. The Welsh firebreak should have been 2 weeks earlier but Drakeford prevaricated, asked Bojo twice.
The most damning part, I think, is that the scientists are now saying if we had locked down a week earlier (the first one) it would have resulted in half the deaths.
Now on the Welsh news they are discussing what the effect of stopping NHS treatment to deal with Covid will be. The NHS Chief exec (Andrew Goodall) is saying they had made big improvements in waiting times in recent years, I know that's complete BS. I was told the wait for a hip replacement was about 12 months, 2 years later I was still waiting and then the effects of a certain medication on my liver caused further delays. Maybe I should sue? If I'd had the op in 12 months I wouldn't be so sick now, the NHS let me down and the people at the top still say it was doing fine. It's lies. |
The problem with routine surgery and procedures being, anyone admitted to hospital has a good chance of either taking the virus in or catching it there. There is no certain way of preventing it getting into the wards etc, despite all the efforts at isolation | | | |
| Next firebreak on 14:39 - Nov 19 with 1173 views | exhmrc1 |
| Next firebreak on 13:41 - Nov 19 by Catullus |
Are we following the science? I read it on the BBC website and seen it on the news. There were clear and obvious errors. One fella (missed his name) when questioned about nursing homes admitted the government/SAGE thought nursing homes were safe, thought they were shielded and din't know otherwise becuase they never checked. That is jutst negligence.
A different scientist says they were operating on flawed data because much of the data they used as current was actually a week old or even older. All of their actions were too late, behind the virus.
If Bojo had been following the science they would have had the national lockdown (the second one) 7 weeks earlier. The Welsh firebreak should have been 2 weeks earlier but Drakeford prevaricated, asked Bojo twice.
The most damning part, I think, is that the scientists are now saying if we had locked down a week earlier (the first one) it would have resulted in half the deaths.
Now on the Welsh news they are discussing what the effect of stopping NHS treatment to deal with Covid will be. The NHS Chief exec (Andrew Goodall) is saying they had made big improvements in waiting times in recent years, I know that's complete BS. I was told the wait for a hip replacement was about 12 months, 2 years later I was still waiting and then the effects of a certain medication on my liver caused further delays. Maybe I should sue? If I'd had the op in 12 months I wouldn't be so sick now, the NHS let me down and the people at the top still say it was doing fine. It's lies. |
Part of the problem is the way ONS uses the figures from a week or 2 weeks before to calculate the R rate. Also the lighthouse tests are sometimes a week out of date. The figures shown on the daily charts relate to 4 or 5 days earlier. Todays figures are catch ups on figures not declared over the last few days. That is why there are peaks and troughs so yes the data is a bit out of date. You can also use the actual testing date which is a more accurate reflection but that is days out of date. The R figure when it comes out will show a drop but that will be based on the figures probably 2 weeks ago not now.
I think Drakeford has pretty much followed the science. Johnson hasnt been doing so since June. The lockdown in England should have been earlier than ours was and possibly for longer than 2 weeks. As usual Johnson ignores scientific advice. The decision to open borders wasn't based on science. The decision to use masks in shops isnt based on the science. That is why Drakeford didnt do it initially. The evidence is pretty clear that the figures came down when masks werent used in shops and has gone up since.
I didnt see the interview with Andrew Goodall today but really am not surprised. If 9 to 10 wards are being used in Swansea Bay then that is a huge amount of patients not able to get seen. This is likely to go up further then start reducing in 2 weeks. Initially they closed 4 wards in Morriston wards A,B, G and J I think to deal with covid. They have set up new wards in outpatients as well.
The problem with this covid things isnt just deaths but the effect it is having on other treatments and people like you. The more cases there are the less other things can be done and that is why we should be looking at good practice elsewhere in the world not saying things cannot be done here. | | | |
| Next firebreak on 21:05 - Nov 19 with 1137 views | Catullus |
| Next firebreak on 14:39 - Nov 19 by exhmrc1 |
Part of the problem is the way ONS uses the figures from a week or 2 weeks before to calculate the R rate. Also the lighthouse tests are sometimes a week out of date. The figures shown on the daily charts relate to 4 or 5 days earlier. Todays figures are catch ups on figures not declared over the last few days. That is why there are peaks and troughs so yes the data is a bit out of date. You can also use the actual testing date which is a more accurate reflection but that is days out of date. The R figure when it comes out will show a drop but that will be based on the figures probably 2 weeks ago not now.
I think Drakeford has pretty much followed the science. Johnson hasnt been doing so since June. The lockdown in England should have been earlier than ours was and possibly for longer than 2 weeks. As usual Johnson ignores scientific advice. The decision to open borders wasn't based on science. The decision to use masks in shops isnt based on the science. That is why Drakeford didnt do it initially. The evidence is pretty clear that the figures came down when masks werent used in shops and has gone up since.
I didnt see the interview with Andrew Goodall today but really am not surprised. If 9 to 10 wards are being used in Swansea Bay then that is a huge amount of patients not able to get seen. This is likely to go up further then start reducing in 2 weeks. Initially they closed 4 wards in Morriston wards A,B, G and J I think to deal with covid. They have set up new wards in outpatients as well.
The problem with this covid things isnt just deaths but the effect it is having on other treatments and people like you. The more cases there are the less other things can be done and that is why we should be looking at good practice elsewhere in the world not saying things cannot be done here. |
My problem with what Goodall said is that it's wrong. The waiting list situation wasn't improving. Closing down all elective surgery was bound to cause problems. Wasn't the reason for the Enfys hospitals to keep covid patints out of the main hospitals? Yet the Enfys hospitals weren't really used much and now waiting lists have gone berserk. If you go on a list today (for orthopaedic surgery) you could be waiting 3/4 years.
They are keeping NPT covid clear, at least trying to, so they can do elective ops. Goodall is feeding is the Senedd line and it's nonsense. | |
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| Next firebreak on 21:34 - Nov 19 with 1126 views | pencoedjack |
| Next firebreak on 22:53 - Nov 18 by exhmrc1 |
I actually agree with closing pubs and keeping shops open. I have been arguing that for months. The evidence clearly showed that when shops reopened the figures still went down and that was when masks were hardly being worn. Since we opened borders followed by pubs the figures have gone haywire. In July Morriston Hospital didnt have a single covid case. The figures today show that Swansea Bay Health Board has 270 inpatients most of whom are probably in Morriston. This is going to rise for the next couple of weeks before reducing as it follows the trend of cases usually about 3 weeks later.
That is 9 wards full of coronavirus patients that cannot be used for other purposes.
As far as being an international hub so is Changi. It has 67 million passengers a year passing through it just short of Heathrow's 81 but Singapore has a population of less than 1/10 of the UK. Changi is the main hub for Singapore Airlines but is also used by other airlines like Air New Zealand who code share flights as well as multiple airlines travelling into Asia.
The fact that is close to Europe really isnt an issue. There is a distinct border between the UK and the rest of the world just like Singapore and if you want to use them Australia and New Zealand.
Singapore is 235 miles from Malaysia not a massive a distance. Far less than the distance from the UK to Spain, Denmark, Portugal or Germany. There a couple of European countries closer but generally it is no different than Singapore to Malaysia. |
You probably have, problem is most posters probably stop reading after your 1st sentence as you keep recycling the same drivel day after day 👠|  | | |
| Next firebreak on 21:40 - Nov 19 with 1128 views | exhmrc1 |
| Next firebreak on 21:05 - Nov 19 by Catullus |
My problem with what Goodall said is that it's wrong. The waiting list situation wasn't improving. Closing down all elective surgery was bound to cause problems. Wasn't the reason for the Enfys hospitals to keep covid patints out of the main hospitals? Yet the Enfys hospitals weren't really used much and now waiting lists have gone berserk. If you go on a list today (for orthopaedic surgery) you could be waiting 3/4 years.
They are keeping NPT covid clear, at least trying to, so they can do elective ops. Goodall is feeding is the Senedd line and it's nonsense. |
As I said earlier i didnt see the interview with Andrew Goodall. I saw his press briefing yesterday and he said the exact opposite and all the articles I have read today have said about waiting times increasing. If he said waiting times were decreasing then that is clearly wrong.
The problem with the use of the nightingales is you need the extra staff. Also as far as I am aware they dont have facilities like intensive care and theatres and even if they did where would you get the extra consultants, junior doctors, nurses, physios etc from. If you have to move people after operations you have transport problems.
I spoke to my consultant's secretary a few weeks ago. They had been moved from Morriston to Gorseinon a while ago along with part of the cardiac failure team. I dont know when but it was well before the recent incident there.
I know that the Bay hospital has been used for blood tests for quite a while. It might well be used for other things.
https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2020-11-19/people-waiting-for-hospital-treatment-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54989021 | | | |
| Next firebreak on 10:29 - Nov 20 with 1051 views | Catullus |
| Next firebreak on 21:40 - Nov 19 by exhmrc1 |
As I said earlier i didnt see the interview with Andrew Goodall. I saw his press briefing yesterday and he said the exact opposite and all the articles I have read today have said about waiting times increasing. If he said waiting times were decreasing then that is clearly wrong.
The problem with the use of the nightingales is you need the extra staff. Also as far as I am aware they dont have facilities like intensive care and theatres and even if they did where would you get the extra consultants, junior doctors, nurses, physios etc from. If you have to move people after operations you have transport problems.
I spoke to my consultant's secretary a few weeks ago. They had been moved from Morriston to Gorseinon a while ago along with part of the cardiac failure team. I dont know when but it was well before the recent incident there.
I know that the Bay hospital has been used for blood tests for quite a while. It might well be used for other things.
https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2020-11-19/people-waiting-for-hospital-treatment-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54989021 |
I had a blood test in the Bay recently. Goodall said they had made improvements which goes against my experiences.
They recruited and trained a lot of extra staff for the enfys hospitals, it was meant to be for people recovering, not the more serious or new cases. The point being (I believe) to keep the main hospital wards as clear as possible.
Now today the inevitable happened. I think I'd said it was only a matter of time. My son's year 7 class have been sent home and told to self isolate as someone in his class has tested positive for covid. In turn I have to isolate as I had to pick him up from school but he'd been in close contact with this kid for a few days and obviously he's been in close contact with myself and his mum. His mum has had to contact Occy health and they are checking to see if she needs to stay at home for 2 weeks also but it's probably a yes. She was only in the office 2 days a week anyway so it's no great thing as far as her work goes. Myself I am aexpecting 2 hospital appointments, one with Hepatology and one for my hip replacement op. I can only hope none of us develop symptoms because if I get covid I won't have the op for maybe another 3 months, until I am definitely fully recovered. My surgeon told me that quite clearly.
Schools are spreading this virus, all other efforts may be a waste of time if the kids are taking this home to parents who then take it to work, to the shops.
PS, I am not having a go at the school here.They are doing their best in difficult circumstances and only following Senedd rules. The teachers are at risk here too. I can honestly say Dwr Y Felin have been brilliant during this time, always in contact and putting the kids first. [Post edited 20 Nov 2020 10:32]
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| Next firebreak on 10:53 - Nov 20 with 1039 views | controversial_jack |
Kids are all mingling together at bus stops and walking home in groups, so any efforts made in schools are pointless | | | |
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