| Derby now 4th bottom 21:27 - Apr 15 with 59775 views | loftboy |
Squeaky bum time for them. |  |
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| Derby now 4th bottom on 10:20 - May 15 with 3756 views | Paddyhoops |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 17:40 - May 14 by paulparker |
Sorry can someone enlighten me on the Rooney hate on here ? |
No real hate for Rooney. Just get the impression he's in the position he's in not for his ability as a coachbecause because of who he is .
Clive right about the Man utd connection.
As an Irishman. I fall in the 40% who really have no time for them.
I don't hate anyone by the way.
Spud head is just an endearing term for him! |  | | |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 10:23 - May 15 with 3742 views | Paddyhoops |
And he was a hell of a player!!👠| | | |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 10:32 - May 15 with 3693 views | Mistication92 |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 09:03 - May 15 by paulparker |
Overrated ???? Behave , you seriously believe that
England’s all time top scorer & Man Utd’s all time top scorer ,
The closet player to Gazza if not better imo, not at the messi or Ronaldo level but for a period of time he was close
If anything blame the media for any overhype but Rooney was a quality player (2002-2014 ) could play in any position as well
If you don’t like him fair enough but he wanted to play for his country and always gave a 100%
Shame he was with the “golden generation “ who couldn’t put egos aside and boot this England team |
England top scorer can be deceiving, how many were against Andorra etc? What was his tournament record like, 2004 decent, apart from that...
He was good in the PL granted, but when he came up against Messi in 2009 and 2011, he wasn't even close.
He's not over or underrated as a player. He's clearly overrated as a manager. | | | |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 10:33 - May 15 with 3684 views | ted_hendrix |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 10:13 - May 15 by BrianMcCarthy |
I'm no expert on Rooney's England career and I don't know if he was overrated in the main or not, but he's one of the very best players I've ever seen live. At HQ once during what I think was a 0-2 defeat against the Cockney Reds Rooney seemed to see the game a couple of seconds before anyone else and his passing and control of both the ball and the game were a joy to behold.
Absolutely quality player. |
He ran that game Brian, I was in the loft and he scored a header in the first two minutes in front of us and then proceeded to dictate the game, that's how it was he was far to good for us.
Sometimes you have to put your hands up and say 'oh dear' we couldn't handle him and we couldn't.
I just don't want Rooney and bloody Derby rammed down my throat every bleeding time I look at the news. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Derby now 4th bottom on 10:34 - May 15 with 3675 views | terryb |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 09:21 - May 15 by paulparker |
It’s not been as bad as when Lampard was the Derby manager , that was ludicrous the amount of overhype just because “franks a bit clever “ |
It has been just as bad. I think you may be ignoring a lot of it as you like Rooney & possibly dislike Lampard.
Nothing wrong with that, but last weekend was all to do with Rooney & his career rather than Derby County. We even received the wisdom of the Soccer Saturday pundits on whether they would have been in this position if he was still playing & whether any other club would employ his as a manager. Which, of course, they should as he was such a good footballer! They also ignored that Derby were in the same position with him playing & that he was no longer good enough.
Is this the fault of the medias? Probably, but Morris is just as much to blame.
BTW (not answering you Paul), I didn't think I needed to post an emoji when I stated that I felt sorry for Morris! | | | |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 10:37 - May 15 with 3664 views | francisbowles |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 09:03 - May 15 by paulparker |
Overrated ???? Behave , you seriously believe that
England’s all time top scorer & Man Utd’s all time top scorer ,
The closet player to Gazza if not better imo, not at the messi or Ronaldo level but for a period of time he was close
If anything blame the media for any overhype but Rooney was a quality player (2002-2014 ) could play in any position as well
If you don’t like him fair enough but he wanted to play for his country and always gave a 100%
Shame he was with the “golden generation “ who couldn’t put egos aside and boot this England team |
I never thought he lived up to his early promise.
Constantly underperformed at major tournaments and those records are not that great when you compare them to Denis Law and Jimmy Greaves.
Law scored the vast majority of his against quality opposition, There were hardly any soft games back then in the First Division or European competition. He also had to put up with greedy Bestie not passing to him. Lol.
Greaves similar, England didn't play soft opposition very often in his time. | | | |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 12:06 - May 15 with 3519 views | paulparker |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 10:37 - May 15 by francisbowles |
I never thought he lived up to his early promise.
Constantly underperformed at major tournaments and those records are not that great when you compare them to Denis Law and Jimmy Greaves.
Law scored the vast majority of his against quality opposition, There were hardly any soft games back then in the First Division or European competition. He also had to put up with greedy Bestie not passing to him. Lol.
Greaves similar, England didn't play soft opposition very often in his time. |
Greaves was an out and out goal scorer a phenomenal striker
Law was also a great player
But neither of them did anything at tournaments ( yeah I know it’s different now ) and there was also a lot of weak opposition in those days
As for living up to his early promise I would say he did , top England goal scorer, top Man Utd goal scorer , won a champions league & numerous titles the only thing he didn’t achieve was success with England |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Derby now 4th bottom on 15:10 - May 15 with 3343 views | francisbowles |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 12:06 - May 15 by paulparker |
Greaves was an out and out goal scorer a phenomenal striker
Law was also a great player
But neither of them did anything at tournaments ( yeah I know it’s different now ) and there was also a lot of weak opposition in those days
As for living up to his early promise I would say he did , top England goal scorer, top Man Utd goal scorer , won a champions league & numerous titles the only thing he didn’t achieve was success with England |
Well Greaves played all four games in 62 and all three until an injury in 66. Scored just 1 goal but in a 16 team World cup there weren't any easy games. 44 goals in 57 appearances.
Law only played 1 world cup finals match and he was 34 and at the tail end of his career by then but scored 31 in 54 caps for Scotland | | | |
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| Derby now 4th bottom on 15:26 - May 15 with 3313 views | denhamhoop2 |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 10:37 - May 15 by francisbowles |
I never thought he lived up to his early promise.
Constantly underperformed at major tournaments and those records are not that great when you compare them to Denis Law and Jimmy Greaves.
Law scored the vast majority of his against quality opposition, There were hardly any soft games back then in the First Division or European competition. He also had to put up with greedy Bestie not passing to him. Lol.
Greaves similar, England didn't play soft opposition very often in his time. |
Hmm Greaves every season got to fill his boots vs Northern Ireland Wales and Scotland during the Home Internationals 1 goal in 7 World Cup Matches Alan Shearer 9 in 13 Matches at Major Tournaments Wayne Rooney 7 in 21 Major Finals Games | | | |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 15:42 - May 15 with 3267 views | WatfordR |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 10:37 - May 15 by francisbowles |
I never thought he lived up to his early promise.
Constantly underperformed at major tournaments and those records are not that great when you compare them to Denis Law and Jimmy Greaves.
Law scored the vast majority of his against quality opposition, There were hardly any soft games back then in the First Division or European competition. He also had to put up with greedy Bestie not passing to him. Lol.
Greaves similar, England didn't play soft opposition very often in his time. |
Mostly couldn't give a toss about Rooney, and always felt that other than in the 2004 UEFA tourney where he looked like he had all the promise in the world, he generally underperformed.
Had a quick look at his goalscoring record for England. 1 goal at World Cup Finals, and 6 at Euros Finals, 4 of which in that 2004 tourney. A long way off world class I'd suggest.
He has scored five times against San Marino though. |  | | |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 16:05 - May 15 with 3222 views | stowmarketrange |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 15:26 - May 15 by denhamhoop2 |
Hmm Greaves every season got to fill his boots vs Northern Ireland Wales and Scotland during the Home Internationals 1 goal in 7 World Cup Matches Alan Shearer 9 in 13 Matches at Major Tournaments Wayne Rooney 7 in 21 Major Finals Games |
Those home internationals were anything but the friendly matches that they’d be now.I think some of the games doubled up as qualifying games for the Euros as they are now called.
England didn’t win the home nations trophy all that often back then.
There are more games against minnows now than there ever were. |  | | |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 16:39 - May 15 with 3147 views | denhamhoop2 |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 16:05 - May 15 by stowmarketrange |
Those home internationals were anything but the friendly matches that they’d be now.I think some of the games doubled up as qualifying games for the Euros as they are now called.
England didn’t win the home nations trophy all that often back then.
There are more games against minnows now than there ever were. |
The 67 and 68 Home Internationals counted as the Euro Qualifiers and included the day Scotland claimed to be World Champions after a 3 2 win which was Jimmy Greaves last international appearance. England never came lower than 2nd in Jimmy Greaves England career . Yes there are more certainly more chances to fill your boots during qualifying but at major Tournaments that is not the case and remember Jimmy Greaves did play in the Tournament England actually won and his replacement got 4 goals in 3 games | | | |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 16:40 - May 15 with 3145 views | terryb |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 16:05 - May 15 by stowmarketrange |
Those home internationals were anything but the friendly matches that they’d be now.I think some of the games doubled up as qualifying games for the Euros as they are now called.
England didn’t win the home nations trophy all that often back then.
There are more games against minnows now than there ever were. |
It was only the 66/67 & 67/68 seasons that were qualifiers. I can'r remember if Greaves played in any of the games in the first season, but he definitely didn't in the second season.
I have a feeling that he was recalled for the defeat to Scotland in '67 at Wembley where Scotland claimed to then be the World Champions! He didn't score in any of the games though & England won the qualifying group by drawing At Hampden Park in '68. | | | |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 17:13 - May 15 with 3090 views | ed_83 |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 09:03 - May 15 by paulparker |
Overrated ???? Behave , you seriously believe that
England’s all time top scorer & Man Utd’s all time top scorer ,
The closet player to Gazza if not better imo, not at the messi or Ronaldo level but for a period of time he was close
If anything blame the media for any overhype but Rooney was a quality player (2002-2014 ) could play in any position as well
If you don’t like him fair enough but he wanted to play for his country and always gave a 100%
Shame he was with the “golden generation “ who couldn’t put egos aside and boot this England team |
Yep, completely believe it. He can be a good player - I'd agree he was verging on greatness before he got injured in 2006 - and still be massively over-rated.
4 Premier League titles is obviously nothing to be sniffed at, but he had the greatest club manager in human history building teams around him. The fact he only won one Champions League, and fell apart completely the moment Ferguson retired, is pretty underwhelming for a player talked about in the same breath as Messi or Ronaldo.
For England, he was the epitome of a flat-track bully: he'd bang in loads of goals against Andorra or whoever in qualifying, then go missing when it counted, demand to play when he was clearly unfit, or get sent off stupidly.
He was 100% the worst offender of the golden generation: phoned it in for tournament after tournament, then when Southgate wanted to recall him he retired rather than risk not being the centre of attention. I'd take Lineker, Shearer and Kane ahead of him in a heartbeat: none of them had Rooney's raw ability, but all of them achieved more with what they had.
At club level forget even mentioning Messi or Ronaldo, who Rooney was never anywhere near emulating, there are at least a dozen other strikers of that generation who were better: Lewandowski, Benzema, Torres, Villa, Henry, Van Persie, Mandzukic, Klose, Muller, Higuain, Bale, Griezmann, Robben, Ribery... I mean, Ronaldo's a year older than Rooney and spent this season competing at the top end of Serie A and the Champions League. Rooney was too fat to get through 60 minutes in the Championship.
That story about him bossing a game at LR sums him up perfectly for me. Put him up against a newly-promoted team or part-time UEFA fodder and he'd run the show. Confront him with serious opposition in European or international tournaments, ask him to deal with managerial instability, or challenge him to stay fit as he got older, the stuff that separates good players from great ones, and 90% of the time he couldn't hack it.
It's exactly the same with his management career - parachuted into Derby, assumed he was going to stroll through this league the same way Lampard did, but when it turned out he actually had to fight for it, he had nothing to offer. If he does any better next season it'll be because Derby keep up their financial doping and pray FFP gets binned, not because he's learned anything from a career of underachievement. [Post edited 15 May 2021 17:15]
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| Derby now 4th bottom on 17:33 - May 15 with 3050 views | denhamhoop2 |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 17:13 - May 15 by ed_83 |
Yep, completely believe it. He can be a good player - I'd agree he was verging on greatness before he got injured in 2006 - and still be massively over-rated.
4 Premier League titles is obviously nothing to be sniffed at, but he had the greatest club manager in human history building teams around him. The fact he only won one Champions League, and fell apart completely the moment Ferguson retired, is pretty underwhelming for a player talked about in the same breath as Messi or Ronaldo.
For England, he was the epitome of a flat-track bully: he'd bang in loads of goals against Andorra or whoever in qualifying, then go missing when it counted, demand to play when he was clearly unfit, or get sent off stupidly.
He was 100% the worst offender of the golden generation: phoned it in for tournament after tournament, then when Southgate wanted to recall him he retired rather than risk not being the centre of attention. I'd take Lineker, Shearer and Kane ahead of him in a heartbeat: none of them had Rooney's raw ability, but all of them achieved more with what they had.
At club level forget even mentioning Messi or Ronaldo, who Rooney was never anywhere near emulating, there are at least a dozen other strikers of that generation who were better: Lewandowski, Benzema, Torres, Villa, Henry, Van Persie, Mandzukic, Klose, Muller, Higuain, Bale, Griezmann, Robben, Ribery... I mean, Ronaldo's a year older than Rooney and spent this season competing at the top end of Serie A and the Champions League. Rooney was too fat to get through 60 minutes in the Championship.
That story about him bossing a game at LR sums him up perfectly for me. Put him up against a newly-promoted team or part-time UEFA fodder and he'd run the show. Confront him with serious opposition in European or international tournaments, ask him to deal with managerial instability, or challenge him to stay fit as he got older, the stuff that separates good players from great ones, and 90% of the time he couldn't hack it.
It's exactly the same with his management career - parachuted into Derby, assumed he was going to stroll through this league the same way Lampard did, but when it turned out he actually had to fight for it, he had nothing to offer. If he does any better next season it'll be because Derby keep up their financial doping and pray FFP gets binned, not because he's learned anything from a career of underachievement. [Post edited 15 May 2021 17:15]
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For me Rooney was a good player not a great player very much the Graeme Hick of football a flat track bully. His attitude when selected at the World Cup v Italy on left wing and basically sulked and left Leighton Baines 1 v 2 all the time allowing Italy's right back to look like Dani Alves spoke volumes to me. Manager wise seems to be doing ok ish hard to judge as Derby are a basket case atm | | | |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 18:02 - May 15 with 2958 views | stowmarketrange |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 17:13 - May 15 by ed_83 |
Yep, completely believe it. He can be a good player - I'd agree he was verging on greatness before he got injured in 2006 - and still be massively over-rated.
4 Premier League titles is obviously nothing to be sniffed at, but he had the greatest club manager in human history building teams around him. The fact he only won one Champions League, and fell apart completely the moment Ferguson retired, is pretty underwhelming for a player talked about in the same breath as Messi or Ronaldo.
For England, he was the epitome of a flat-track bully: he'd bang in loads of goals against Andorra or whoever in qualifying, then go missing when it counted, demand to play when he was clearly unfit, or get sent off stupidly.
He was 100% the worst offender of the golden generation: phoned it in for tournament after tournament, then when Southgate wanted to recall him he retired rather than risk not being the centre of attention. I'd take Lineker, Shearer and Kane ahead of him in a heartbeat: none of them had Rooney's raw ability, but all of them achieved more with what they had.
At club level forget even mentioning Messi or Ronaldo, who Rooney was never anywhere near emulating, there are at least a dozen other strikers of that generation who were better: Lewandowski, Benzema, Torres, Villa, Henry, Van Persie, Mandzukic, Klose, Muller, Higuain, Bale, Griezmann, Robben, Ribery... I mean, Ronaldo's a year older than Rooney and spent this season competing at the top end of Serie A and the Champions League. Rooney was too fat to get through 60 minutes in the Championship.
That story about him bossing a game at LR sums him up perfectly for me. Put him up against a newly-promoted team or part-time UEFA fodder and he'd run the show. Confront him with serious opposition in European or international tournaments, ask him to deal with managerial instability, or challenge him to stay fit as he got older, the stuff that separates good players from great ones, and 90% of the time he couldn't hack it.
It's exactly the same with his management career - parachuted into Derby, assumed he was going to stroll through this league the same way Lampard did, but when it turned out he actually had to fight for it, he had nothing to offer. If he does any better next season it'll be because Derby keep up their financial doping and pray FFP gets binned, not because he's learned anything from a career of underachievement. [Post edited 15 May 2021 17:15]
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I think having mclaren helping out has done him a few favours.He takes all the credit for staying up but mclaren does the work behind the scenes. | | | |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 23:35 - May 15 with 2768 views | johncharles |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 10:13 - May 15 by BrianMcCarthy |
I'm no expert on Rooney's England career and I don't know if he was overrated in the main or not, but he's one of the very best players I've ever seen live. At HQ once during what I think was a 0-2 defeat against the Cockney Reds Rooney seemed to see the game a couple of seconds before anyone else and his passing and control of both the ball and the game were a joy to behold.
Absolutely quality player. |
I think I was at that match and had my eyes opened as to how good a player he was. Watching him instead of following the ball when you see a player on TV. |  |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| Derby now 4th bottom on 10:29 - May 16 with 2581 views | francisbowles |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 16:40 - May 15 by terryb |
It was only the 66/67 & 67/68 seasons that were qualifiers. I can'r remember if Greaves played in any of the games in the first season, but he definitely didn't in the second season.
I have a feeling that he was recalled for the defeat to Scotland in '67 at Wembley where Scotland claimed to then be the World Champions! He didn't score in any of the games though & England won the qualifying group by drawing At Hampden Park in '68. |
Yes he did play against Scotland in 1967, in for Roger Hunt. Otherwise it was the Jules Rimet X1. He also played and scored, his last international goal, four days later v Spain at Wembley, in a much changed team.
Hunt was back and there were caps for Bonetti, Keith Newton, Labone, Mullery and for his one and only cap John Hollins. It was also my one and only international appearance. As a nine year old. Lol | | | |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 11:04 - May 16 with 2505 views | stowmarketrange |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 23:35 - May 15 by johncharles |
I think I was at that match and had my eyes opened as to how good a player he was. Watching him instead of following the ball when you see a player on TV. |
I was watching van persie falling into the camera hole and missed their 2nd goal.I wondered why they were all walking back to the halfway line. | | | |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 11:31 - May 16 with 2433 views | HantsR |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 10:33 - May 15 by ted_hendrix |
He ran that game Brian, I was in the loft and he scored a header in the first two minutes in front of us and then proceeded to dictate the game, that's how it was he was far to good for us.
Sometimes you have to put your hands up and say 'oh dear' we couldn't handle him and we couldn't.
I just don't want Rooney and bloody Derby rammed down my throat every bleeding time I look at the news. |
I was in the front row of the Loft at that game - my mate recorded the moment Rooney scored and you can see me and my dismayed face on the TV image gleefully sent to me. The game was made much worse for me as I found that the usual father and son who had seats next to me had sold their seats to a pair of Manure fans. Awaiting news of the outcome for Derby with great interest! |  | | |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 12:17 - May 16 with 2307 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 16:05 - May 15 by stowmarketrange |
Those home internationals were anything but the friendly matches that they’d be now.I think some of the games doubled up as qualifying games for the Euros as they are now called.
England didn’t win the home nations trophy all that often back then.
There are more games against minnows now than there ever were. |
I used to love the Home Internationals, just the right size of competition in a non-WC/Euro year - as you say they were pretty competitive (and you usually had a sort of England v Scotland for top spot + Wales v NI for avoiding the wooden spoon thing going on anyway, something for everybody). No routine matches v minnows like you get in early WC rounds. | | | |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 18:43 - May 16 with 2117 views | TGRRRSSS |
I don't think you can dismiss Rooney the player, as there were many reasons why England generally through his career failed and not just becasue they didnt "win the WC or Euro's.
He was however a part of the reason one of which was his unprofessional habit of getting too unfit prior to tournements, look at the timber he put on before 2010 WC for example.
I don't think it's entirely fair to say he was a flat track bully, however the argument isnt without merit.
I'd also suggest Ferguson's influence down the years on his players is a very definet reason for a lot of problems with England from 2000 onwards especially from 2004 onwards to his retirement, I am sure his departure has helped the club England focus they try to generate these days.
Rio Ferdinand himself has basically confirmed it stating how players would not associate with rival clubs players (certain rivals especially) when on England duty.
AS for Keogh and MOrris, whoever told him he could get away with doing that should be given some of the fine for sheer stupidity, unless it's simply a yes man in which case Morris deserves all they get.
From 1 report I read in the last day or so, Derby still owe Cocu and his team £8m or so from their sackings, and they're could be as much as £60m of unearethed debt surrounding the club..... oh dear.......... |  | | |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 21:41 - May 16 with 1924 views | davman |
... and yet still, the EFL stands motionless doing nothing as ever.
Feel sorry for genuine Rams like my mate Paul. Those fans are as to blame as we were when we our owners were smashing the rules out of sight so that we could score the most unlikely of last minute winners.
These are the people the EFL claim to be protecting through their governance of the game. They stand by issuing ridiculously open ended rules with loopholes as loose as can be and then act surprised when they can't enforce them.
Yes, there are loads of em on social media giving the big one over Melconomics, but the majority of them have cringed. As ever, genuinely, wtf can the average fan base do but sit back and hope it'll all be OK? |  |
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| Derby now 4th bottom on 13:51 - May 17 with 3896 views | robith |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 10:13 - May 15 by BrianMcCarthy |
I'm no expert on Rooney's England career and I don't know if he was overrated in the main or not, but he's one of the very best players I've ever seen live. At HQ once during what I think was a 0-2 defeat against the Cockney Reds Rooney seemed to see the game a couple of seconds before anyone else and his passing and control of both the ball and the game were a joy to behold.
Absolutely quality player. |
A big thing for me with Rooney was his talent was so natural, then when he lacked match fitness coming back from injury he would look like a pig until he got up to speed again. As those gaps and injuries got bigger, the longer the protracted period of him looking like he'd never played before |  | | |
| Derby now 4th bottom on 11:20 - May 18 with 3625 views | derbyhoop |
Rooney the player - good but not great.
Rooney the manager - jury still out but it's not looking good and Derby are a basket case.
Even DCFC S/T holders thought they'd be in a relegation scrap last season. And next year they'll almost certainly be worse. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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