| Last 10 years 09:46 - May 25 with 8426 views | kingo |
As our latest Nuisance Apidae has been ‘contributing’ on another thread, would you as a supporter, swap the last 10 years for Brentford’s last 10 years? |  |
| RIP: Sniffer, Doug and Pat |
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| Last 10 years on 16:19 - May 29 with 1401 views | NewBee |
| Last 10 years on 15:29 - May 29 by St_Pollock |
You mean like the way we tried to manufacture a fake rivalry with Chelsea? Or like the way we still embarrass ourselves singing about how we hate Cardiff City which leaves them scratching their heads?
Brentford aren't trying to manufacture anything. They are our traditional rivals and that rivalry goes back further than Gregory trying to buy Griffin Park. That made it more turbulent but they were always our biggest rivals before and are still.
Also, QPR had a 40 year period where we were far better than them. That's out of a 138 year history where both sides can claim to be the better side at various moments. |
This.
Years ago (1990?) I was chatting to a neighbour, a Bees fan who was talking about the club's rivalry with Fulham - the two clubs were clashing frequently at the time. Anyhow, his father chipped in and said that as far as he was concerned, QPR were Bees' true rivals - he was quite adamant about it.
I reckon my neighbour was born about 1950, so his dad was probably born around 1920?
Anyhow, I reckon that the real (i.e. traditional) rivalries in London are:
Bees v QPR
Chelsea v Fulham
Spurs v Arsenal
WHU v Millwall
Charlton v Palace*
This is as much based on geography as anything.
Of course, if you get clubs playing in different divisions over an extended period, the intensity tends to fade somewhat.
Plus you get clubs with ideas above their station desperately trying to manufacture a "local" rivalry eg Chelsea, or even WHU, trying to claim it with Spurs.
Whereas Spurs don't give a damn about either of them - it's Arsenal they hate, even if Arsenal themselves thought they were above all that when they were going well.
I suspect that if Bees and QPR were to spend another decade or so in the same division - esp if both Chelsea and Fulham were elsewhere - you'd start to get back to the days of my neighbour's old man.
* - Don't quite get the recent Palace/Brighton "M23 Derby" rivalry myself, but don't give a flying one either! |  | | |
| Last 10 years on 16:50 - May 29 with 1385 views | terryb |
When I was converted to Rangers in the late '60's I was informed, in no uncertain terms, that Rangers rivals were:-
1) Brentford
2) Watford
3) Palace
4) Millwall
For most of the time since then Watford overtook Brentford due to us playing each other while The Bees suffered.
Most of our fan base is younger than me & have only come across Brentford in the last few years, so they are unaware of "how things used to be"! It didn't take long for C*****a to jump to the top of the list after we played them in 1968 & I can't imagine them ever being moved from that position. Luton also came from nowhere to join the "hate/dislike" list & we might have even overtaken Watford in the eyes of their fans.
Therefore, to some of us Brentford are a rival whilst to others they never have been. Neither of us are right or wrong!
We are also far from being The Pensioners biggest rival, but they definitely don't like us, especially since the FA Cup game in 2007(?) & 2011 raised the bar considerably. .
But, No. I'm still not swapping the worst years of my club for the best years of another club! | | | |
| Last 10 years on 17:12 - May 29 with 1371 views | rsonist |
| Last 10 years on 14:45 - May 29 by danehoop |
I blame Mark Hughes as well, he probably was a Chelsea fan. |
He actually was. |  | | |
| Last 10 years on 17:24 - May 29 with 1361 views | rsonist |
Benham's top scientists have extracted blood from a mosquito preserved in White City amber and proved Brentford were once relevant to us. So ner. | | | |
| Last 10 years on 17:29 - May 29 with 1355 views | 100percent |
| Last 10 years on 23:50 - May 28 by St_Pollock |
Richard Thompson was the greatest chairman this club had after Gregory. We always balanced the books, maintained the tradition of buying cheap but selling high and every manager was always given money to spend once we took out monies for ground improvements and cover loses.
In fact Ray Wilkins was given all £6m to spend from the Les money - once the Hayes sell on fee had been paid - because the books were in such good condition: Wilkins took us down because he was an awful manager.
The hounding Thompson got from a section of our fans was a disgrace in my opinion. Yes, he was wrong to grant Francis permission to speak to Wolves but as worst mistakes go, that's not a bad one and we never got close to financial turmoil under his reign.
Wright? He is a QPR fan schooled in the innovative years of Gregory. He also realised the importance of balancing the books and when it went wrong it was it was because he tried to be innovative and create a sporting club with Wasps. It was a disaster but he was simply too far ahead of his time however, regardless of that, it was a horrendously bad decision.
Bulstrude is a hard one to judge. Logic dictates that it's ridiculous to have so many professional football teams not only in the country but, in our corner of West London, where we have 3 sides within a 3 mile triangle. He realised that neither us or Fulham would have significant success as separate entities but combined - and you need to place this within the context of 1987 - may be able to become a force. He was right but his logic forgot one key aspect, football fans base their love on romantic factors and the scheme would never be embraced by most fans of either club and it was doomed to fail. He was thinking as a business man, not a football fan.
He did, however, fully understand the necessity of balancing the books and operating within our means. Something we should applaud.
Each of the above made mistakes but not one of them spent so much money that we ended up losing significant amounts of millions. None of them priced out loyal fans. None of them knowingly spent millions of pounds which we couldn't afford and willingly put this club into so much debt that we are still lucky to have a club.
So yes, I hope you enjoyed Happy Zamora Day but never forget that how ever happy it made you it was the sole success of financial recklessness never seen at QPR before or since. Me? I'm happy with the FA Cup Final in 1982, the Milk Cup run in 1986, finishing as London's top club, one of the biggest clubs in the World wanting OUR manager and seeing us develop players who went on represent their countries at World Cups and European Championships or who we sold to some of the biggest names in England.
All achieved under Gregory, Bulstrude and Thompson and all achievements which never came close to killing off over 130 years' worth of history. [Post edited 28 May 2020 23:51]
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You've very effectively answered the initial question on everybody's behalf, Why would anyone want to swap the mistakes of the last ten years for our glorious history?
I will have to disagree with you on many points about both Thompson and Wright - my interpretation of their tenures is vastly different from yours. However it was different times and there were different priorities. The complexion of football has changed dramatically in the years between their tenures. Wright especially - we can arguably put the blame of chasing ownership of a training ground on him after he sold off one of our main assets.
Of course we came close to killing off 130 years of history during those periods - every owner we have had has made mistakes. They ultimately have their own agendas.
It's about objectivity and preference - I would never describe Thompson as our greatest chairman - even Gregory made mistakes, I personally felt Wright had ulterior motives - but these are all personal points of view - with the odd exception, there are very little examples of well run clubs that are considered to be 'successful' I would never agree that any of those owners balanced the books correctly - I feel you are definitely looking through rose tinted glasses.
The brentford project has started well - but if they do reach the echelons of the premiership, I'm pretty damn certain that the model will change to sustain the dynamics of that proposition - it always does.
Modern football is tosh - it's never ever perfect, but every now and then we get snippets of positivity. I'm pretty damn sure that people will look back in 30 years with fondness on the play offs and zamorra goal.- Likewise for the thrill of watching Taraabt play one of the most exciting roles in all our history. We all hang on to those moments of bliss - the cost of which won't be remembered in full detail 50 years from now.
Could the last ten years have been done better - not half. But its all part of a process and its one of the many facets of supporting a club that constantly punches above its weight. I can't change what's happened and I certainly don't agree with this method of loading the club with debt but we are slowly seeing signs of change. And that has to be good. |  | | |
| Last 10 years on 18:01 - May 29 with 1342 views | qpr_1968 |
| Last 10 years on 16:19 - May 29 by NewBee |
This.
Years ago (1990?) I was chatting to a neighbour, a Bees fan who was talking about the club's rivalry with Fulham - the two clubs were clashing frequently at the time. Anyhow, his father chipped in and said that as far as he was concerned, QPR were Bees' true rivals - he was quite adamant about it.
I reckon my neighbour was born about 1950, so his dad was probably born around 1920?
Anyhow, I reckon that the real (i.e. traditional) rivalries in London are:
Bees v QPR
Chelsea v Fulham
Spurs v Arsenal
WHU v Millwall
Charlton v Palace*
This is as much based on geography as anything.
Of course, if you get clubs playing in different divisions over an extended period, the intensity tends to fade somewhat.
Plus you get clubs with ideas above their station desperately trying to manufacture a "local" rivalry eg Chelsea, or even WHU, trying to claim it with Spurs.
Whereas Spurs don't give a damn about either of them - it's Arsenal they hate, even if Arsenal themselves thought they were above all that when they were going well.
I suspect that if Bees and QPR were to spend another decade or so in the same division - esp if both Chelsea and Fulham were elsewhere - you'd start to get back to the days of my neighbour's old man.
* - Don't quite get the recent Palace/Brighton "M23 Derby" rivalry myself, but don't give a flying one either! |
there are two sets of rivalry.
there's the football rivalry, and that's the group you've put.
then there's the terrace rivalry.
Chelsea v Fulham....football
Chelsea v tottenham…..terrace
for arsenal fans it is Tottenham for both football and terrace.
qpr v Brentford/Fulham/Chelsea(whichever you prefer)...football
qpr v luton….terrace
I could put qpr v Chelsea terrace, but in the 70's we wasn't in their league, they used to swamp us.they see us as their little brothers, as I do Brentford.
west ham v Tottenham.....football
west ham v millwall….terrace.
its the same up north.
man utd v man city....football
man utd v leeds/Liverpool.....terrace
Liverpool v everton….football
Liverpool v man utd...terrace.
there's a lot more, but I think you get my drift. | |
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| Last 10 years on 19:26 - May 29 with 1312 views | HamptonR |
A little bit from me.
I started as a trainee in the early 1980's and my foreman was a Brentford man, born 1930,
who hadn't missed a home game apart from when he was on national service, even then he tried his best to get to them.
He said we were rivals but didn't hate QPR, he always joked we had our shirts on the wrong way round. He told me all about the takeover/merger in the sixties but never got angry about it, unlike others. Lovey man.
On the subject of Wasps, Lawrence Dallaglio was on a million pound contract, how could they afford that when the crowds were about 8,000 tops.
Also how come Loftus Road PLC shareholders lost their money but the Friends of Wasps did not. I may be wrong but it rings a loud bell. | | | |
| Last 10 years on 22:35 - May 29 with 1271 views | W7Ranger |
My memory is hazy on this one, but didn't Wright pass up the opportunity to buy the land behind the school end and ultimately end any chance we had of expanding Loftus Road?
Could be wrong by that's my recollection of it. |  | | |
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| Last 10 years on 07:29 - May 30 with 1246 views | distortR |
| Last 10 years on 11:37 - May 29 by St_Pollock |
Twyford Avenue did not balance out the £20m + he lost and he ensured that it remained a training ground.
Have you seen how much we owe our current owners and how much we'd have to lose when they call in their debts?
Put it this way, if they don't wipe out that debt or we never find new owners willing to do so, unless we get significant success at one point we're going to lose our ground, our league status and the club.
That's what a day out at Wembley and 2 seasons of struggle in the Premier League cost us.
Wright wiped out significant debt which saved us, I don't share your optimism that the current board would do so... |
mate, i wasn't defending our current 'owners', i just wasn't defending any of them! | | | |
| Last 10 years on 11:59 - May 30 with 1203 views | joe90 |
| Last 10 years on 15:29 - May 29 by St_Pollock |
You mean like the way we tried to manufacture a fake rivalry with Chelsea? Or like the way we still embarrass ourselves singing about how we hate Cardiff City which leaves them scratching their heads?
Brentford aren't trying to manufacture anything. They are our traditional rivals and that rivalry goes back further than Gregory trying to buy Griffin Park. That made it more turbulent but they were always our biggest rivals before and are still.
Also, QPR had a 40 year period where we were far better than them. That's out of a 138 year history where both sides can claim to be the better side at various moments. |
Yeah, the Cardiff thing is a bit out dated.
Maybe it is like us with Chelsea, but that doesn't give credence to Brentford's desperate attempts to manufacture a rivalry.
I stand by my views, they may not be shared by other QPR fans, but it's how I feel, I don't see Brentford as rivals. Never have, never will. |  | | |
| Last 10 years on 16:38 - May 30 with 1178 views | NewBee |
| Last 10 years on 17:29 - May 29 by 100percent |
You've very effectively answered the initial question on everybody's behalf, Why would anyone want to swap the mistakes of the last ten years for our glorious history?
I will have to disagree with you on many points about both Thompson and Wright - my interpretation of their tenures is vastly different from yours. However it was different times and there were different priorities. The complexion of football has changed dramatically in the years between their tenures. Wright especially - we can arguably put the blame of chasing ownership of a training ground on him after he sold off one of our main assets.
Of course we came close to killing off 130 years of history during those periods - every owner we have had has made mistakes. They ultimately have their own agendas.
It's about objectivity and preference - I would never describe Thompson as our greatest chairman - even Gregory made mistakes, I personally felt Wright had ulterior motives - but these are all personal points of view - with the odd exception, there are very little examples of well run clubs that are considered to be 'successful' I would never agree that any of those owners balanced the books correctly - I feel you are definitely looking through rose tinted glasses.
The brentford project has started well - but if they do reach the echelons of the premiership, I'm pretty damn certain that the model will change to sustain the dynamics of that proposition - it always does.
Modern football is tosh - it's never ever perfect, but every now and then we get snippets of positivity. I'm pretty damn sure that people will look back in 30 years with fondness on the play offs and zamorra goal.- Likewise for the thrill of watching Taraabt play one of the most exciting roles in all our history. We all hang on to those moments of bliss - the cost of which won't be remembered in full detail 50 years from now.
Could the last ten years have been done better - not half. But its all part of a process and its one of the many facets of supporting a club that constantly punches above its weight. I can't change what's happened and I certainly don't agree with this method of loading the club with debt but we are slowly seeing signs of change. And that has to be good. |
100 per cent: "The brentford project has started well - but if they do reach the echelons of the premiership, I'm pretty damn certain that the model will change to sustain the dynamics of that proposition - it always does."
Not necessarily. Rasmus Ankerssen, one of our Co-Directors of Football (also a club director in Denmark), always points out that the Championship is the most unequal, therefore most anti-competitive, league in Europe.
This is because the revenue difference between the 'Haves' and the 'Have Nots' is so massive, for the following reasons:
1. At any one time, there are 6 or 8 clubs which have Parachute payments;
2. Many clubs take insane gambles with their finances to get promoted tothe Promised Land;
3. Many clubs play fast and loose with FFP Rules (eg sale and leaseback of stadium at ludicrous valuations).
Therefore if you're one of the clubs which don't have parachute money, and/or aren't prepared to overspend, and/or won't abuse FFP, it is incredibly difficult to get out of the division.
Whereas in the Prem, TV money is by far the biggest revenue stream and crucially it is relatively evenly distributed between the top clubs and the bottom clubs.
As a result, Ankerssen reckons that if Bees could get into the Prem, with continued good financial management, they should actually find it easier to hold their place amongst the Big Boys as they're finding in the Championship, where they're continually being required to "punch above their weight".
Of course, whether continued good financial management means the same model as at present, only with more noughts on, or a new model, I don't know.
But I'm pretty confident that they know, and are already planning for it for if/when it's needed. | | | |
| Last 10 years on 16:45 - May 30 with 1169 views | TGRRRSSS |
Based on Georgraphy
LR to GP 5.4 miles - Google Based check
LR to Stamford Bridge Bridge - 3.4 miles
LR to Craven Cottage - 3.1 miles.
So based on Georgraphy it's Fulham, but we have a real hatred of Chelsea for various reasons, you can debate how anything is manufactured but based on Geography then Brentfords a resounding number 3.
Didnt Brentford basically lie back in Gregory's day and say he tried to buy the club or something when it all came from their board at the time in anycase - if you want to talk about manufactured??? |  | | |
| Last 10 years on 17:29 - May 30 with 1166 views | TGRRRSSS |
| Last 10 years on 05:38 - May 29 by St_Pollock |
Wright's failure was entirely down to the decision to attempt to create a Continental style sports club with us and Wasps
It was the Wasps 'merger' which brought us into financial turmoil and if you read what I actually said you will see that although I acknowledged it to be an incredibly innovative idea - far ahead of its time - it was a horrendously bad decision. [Post edited 29 May 2020 5:43]
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Huhhmmmm something of a re writing of history - or to be more accurate a huge amount of redacting taking place here regards Wright and his ownership.
Wasps alone - which still may not work today I suspect, so how far ahead of his time do you want to be?
He made a right mess of it running QPR and made some disastrous errors, not least his failure to buy the back of the school end.
He had some bad luck to be sure BUT he landed us the infamous ABC loan when other better options were out there, and he did more than anyone to almost bring us to our knees, despite his claims to the contrary down the years.
Even Thompson (I kind of accept your points on RT) admitted he was surprised what a mess Wright made of things so quickly.
Wasps also didnt help because they were going well and he kept them, but even that has, to a degree ended in a disaster of sorts because they ended up in High Wycombe - then eventually in Coventry!!!
Wright made sure he didnt lose out on his Loftus Road PLC disaster but he always likes to make out it was pure misfortune, and it wasnt it was pure mismanagment, by him and some of the people he get involved. | | | |
| Last 10 years on 17:49 - May 30 with 1159 views | TGRRRSSS |
100Percent
What ulterior Motives do you think Wright had?
I've never been his biggest fan, and remember the mess that was the ABC loan era and the dubious stuff surrounding it in part.
I assume though your referring to earlier in his tenure.
ONly QPR could have so much going on all the time we can barely remember particul;ar incidents that at most other clubs would be remembered clearly.
I know others have suffered more (portsmouth and Luton spring to mind) but few seem to have quite the "carry on" saga that is QPR | | | |
| Last 10 years on 18:04 - May 30 with 1149 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Last 10 years on 11:59 - May 30 by joe90 |
Yeah, the Cardiff thing is a bit out dated.
Maybe it is like us with Chelsea, but that doesn't give credence to Brentford's desperate attempts to manufacture a rivalry.
I stand by my views, they may not be shared by other QPR fans, but it's how I feel, I don't see Brentford as rivals. Never have, never will. |
I'm with you and so are all of the people I know at Rangers. I'm 49 and I honestly don't know anyone who hates Brentford, and quite a few of us used to watch them and some of my friends still do.
I think the debate about our recent fortunes is interesting. Personally I wouldn't swap our last ten years for theirs as we won at Wembley and three years at the top level and they haven't and also because the last year has been my favourite since the early 90's, but they're going well. Good luck to them. |  |
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| Last 10 years on 19:15 - May 30 with 1129 views | NewBee |
| Last 10 years on 18:04 - May 30 by BrianMcCarthy |
I'm with you and so are all of the people I know at Rangers. I'm 49 and I honestly don't know anyone who hates Brentford, and quite a few of us used to watch them and some of my friends still do.
I think the debate about our recent fortunes is interesting. Personally I wouldn't swap our last ten years for theirs as we won at Wembley and three years at the top level and they haven't and also because the last year has been my favourite since the early 90's, but they're going well. Good luck to them. |
Rivalry doesn't have to involve "hatred" (or imo shouldn't do, at any rate).
This idea of "bitter rivalry" mostly dates from the 70's and the age of football hooliganism. And if that's now half a century, remember that both clubs have existed for the best part of a century before that.
And during that century, before people had the means to follow their club regularly home and away, many fans would go to their favourite team's home games one week, then their nearest rival's home games the next.
Meanwhile, you mightn't be wishing us quite such "good luck" if the next five years results are like the last five years.
(OK, childish dig, I know, but I think I've been quite restrained so far lol) | | | |
| Last 10 years on 19:39 - May 30 with 1125 views | kingo |
| Last 10 years on 19:15 - May 30 by NewBee |
Rivalry doesn't have to involve "hatred" (or imo shouldn't do, at any rate).
This idea of "bitter rivalry" mostly dates from the 70's and the age of football hooliganism. And if that's now half a century, remember that both clubs have existed for the best part of a century before that.
And during that century, before people had the means to follow their club regularly home and away, many fans would go to their favourite team's home games one week, then their nearest rival's home games the next.
Meanwhile, you mightn't be wishing us quite such "good luck" if the next five years results are like the last five years.
(OK, childish dig, I know, but I think I've been quite restrained so far lol) |
One of my best mates is a Brentford fan from the 60s. In the 70s he came regularly to Loftus Road and I went with him to Griffin Park. Through him, I knew a lot of your ‘boys’ and they knew I was QPR and there was no problem, there was no talk of 67 and it was only a few years before. Up to about 3 -4 years ago there was never any issue or animosity but unfortunately your mate Gilham has poisoned a lot of your fan base and our youngsters are getting fed up. So as I have stated before, I am no fan of his and what he has done to provoke animosity, that I can assure you will backfire. | |
| RIP: Sniffer, Doug and Pat |
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| Last 10 years on 20:19 - May 30 with 1105 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Last 10 years on 19:15 - May 30 by NewBee |
Rivalry doesn't have to involve "hatred" (or imo shouldn't do, at any rate).
This idea of "bitter rivalry" mostly dates from the 70's and the age of football hooliganism. And if that's now half a century, remember that both clubs have existed for the best part of a century before that.
And during that century, before people had the means to follow their club regularly home and away, many fans would go to their favourite team's home games one week, then their nearest rival's home games the next.
Meanwhile, you mightn't be wishing us quite such "good luck" if the next five years results are like the last five years.
(OK, childish dig, I know, but I think I've been quite restrained so far lol) |
Either way, I can't see myself getting too excited, NewBee.
I mentioned on another thread recently that i only think of teams as rivals if they're violent and/or racist (Hello there, Chelsea). Brentford are neither, and if it stays that way which I'm sure it will then I will wish you good luck.
Edit - spell check. [Post edited 30 May 2020 21:04]
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| Last 10 years on 01:13 - Jun 1 with 1019 views | 100percent |
| Last 10 years on 16:38 - May 30 by NewBee |
100 per cent: "The brentford project has started well - but if they do reach the echelons of the premiership, I'm pretty damn certain that the model will change to sustain the dynamics of that proposition - it always does."
Not necessarily. Rasmus Ankerssen, one of our Co-Directors of Football (also a club director in Denmark), always points out that the Championship is the most unequal, therefore most anti-competitive, league in Europe.
This is because the revenue difference between the 'Haves' and the 'Have Nots' is so massive, for the following reasons:
1. At any one time, there are 6 or 8 clubs which have Parachute payments;
2. Many clubs take insane gambles with their finances to get promoted tothe Promised Land;
3. Many clubs play fast and loose with FFP Rules (eg sale and leaseback of stadium at ludicrous valuations).
Therefore if you're one of the clubs which don't have parachute money, and/or aren't prepared to overspend, and/or won't abuse FFP, it is incredibly difficult to get out of the division.
Whereas in the Prem, TV money is by far the biggest revenue stream and crucially it is relatively evenly distributed between the top clubs and the bottom clubs.
As a result, Ankerssen reckons that if Bees could get into the Prem, with continued good financial management, they should actually find it easier to hold their place amongst the Big Boys as they're finding in the Championship, where they're continually being required to "punch above their weight".
Of course, whether continued good financial management means the same model as at present, only with more noughts on, or a new model, I don't know.
But I'm pretty confident that they know, and are already planning for it for if/when it's needed. |
This all sounds fantastic and very well thought out. It's got a lot of the 'moneyball' about it.
It's all based on getting out of the championship first - but then...
I think you have to take into consideration that the premiership also has its three tiers.
1) the top 6/7 clubs - financially untouchables - they can run as much debt as they wish because they will never be questioned.
2) those middle 5/6 teams that spend high, just to retain mid table status - occasionally probing into the top part, but more probably touching upon the last tier.
3) the bottom 7/8 teams that are all fighting to retain premiership status.
Sadly, our last two periods were in the bottom tier. It's totally soul destroying to watch your team go out to not lose, rather than go out to win. (Crystal Palace epitomise this for me).
I've never understood the method of achieving promotion with a set of players and then buying a completely different set for the premiership.
Under your present system, you would assume that they would typically just add a couple of players and retain the talent, should you get promoted.
The difficulties arise when the results don't go according to plan in the first ten games.
It's all speculation and one would hope that your board would stick to the game plan if that was the case.
Ankerssen may be right - but its very difficult to give an example of a team that has stuck to a similar system and remained competitive in the premiership - Burnley maybe?
So - if you don't go up this season - do you hold on to the likes of watkins or cash him in? And how many more years do you stick to your guns before you get promoted?
Will the original question - about swapping the last ten years - be asked in five years if you are still in the championship? | | | |
| Last 10 years on 09:04 - Jun 1 with 974 views | joe90 |
| Last 10 years on 20:19 - May 30 by BrianMcCarthy |
Either way, I can't see myself getting too excited, NewBee.
I mentioned on another thread recently that i only think of teams as rivals if they're violent and/or racist (Hello there, Chelsea). Brentford are neither, and if it stays that way which I'm sure it will then I will wish you good luck.
Edit - spell check. [Post edited 30 May 2020 21:04]
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Agree with you about Chelsea, and the racism is the main reason I didn't support them as a kid.
Also, I think most Rangers fans have the nowse to understand our dislike with Chelsea, and can recognise the change in demographic of Chelsea fans since Abramovich took over. I just don't see that level of self awareness from some Brentford fans. | | | |
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