| Last 10 years 09:46 - May 25 with 8424 views | kingo |
As our latest Nuisance Apidae has been ‘contributing’ on another thread, would you as a supporter, swap the last 10 years for Brentford’s last 10 years? |  |
| RIP: Sniffer, Doug and Pat |
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| Last 10 years on 10:07 - May 29 with 1203 views | switchingcode |
Now on hereðŸ‘Brighton would be my choice gone from having no ground playing at Gillingham and the dreadful Withdean saw Brentford play brighton at both those grounds also at the great Goldstone.From those days playing in front of barely 2000 fans they have gone to playing in the top league in a superb new 30,000 stadium that sells out every home game.This all achieved in under 10 years and by Matthew Benhams old mate Tony Bloom. |  | | |
| Last 10 years on 10:25 - May 29 with 1179 views | rsonist |
| Last 10 years on 05:38 - May 29 by St_Pollock |
Wright's failure was entirely down to the decision to attempt to create a Continental style sports club with us and Wasps
It was the Wasps 'merger' which brought us into financial turmoil and if you read what I actually said you will see that although I acknowledged it to be an incredibly innovative idea - far ahead of its time - it was a horrendously bad decision. [Post edited 29 May 2020 5:43]
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Sincerely don't recall ever hearing this take before.
In fact it was always my understanding (more gleaned in retrospect than fully appreciated at the time when I was young admittedly) that the Wasps venture was pretty much the only relatively successful thing he did during his time, in that it washed its own face and added value and not debt burden to the club (though it copped unwarranted flak from the fanbase at the time). I can only imagine you're thinking the stock market flotation was contingent on the merger and therefore etc etc?
Baffled at your crediting him with fiscal responsibility otherwise. He had a showman's reckless mindset (personally signing Vinnie Jones over Harford's head?) and delegated to incompetence like Clive Berlin who in his absence undermined the good base we already had and frittered away new investment gambling on promotion until we could no longer support ourselves. A well meaning but catastrophically naive man who never had his eye on the crucial fine print; Fernandes very much a repeat on a bigger scale. |  | | |
| Last 10 years on 10:34 - May 29 with 1171 views | rsonist |
| Last 10 years on 10:07 - May 29 by switchingcode |
Now on hereðŸ‘Brighton would be my choice gone from having no ground playing at Gillingham and the dreadful Withdean saw Brentford play brighton at both those grounds also at the great Goldstone.From those days playing in front of barely 2000 fans they have gone to playing in the top league in a superb new 30,000 stadium that sells out every home game.This all achieved in under 10 years and by Matthew Benhams old mate Tony Bloom. |
Not surprised you'd say that as they are practically the only contender for being your mirror/sister club strategically.
Is there any scurrilous talk on your lot's side what Benham and Bloom's mysterious bitter silent feud is all about? [Post edited 29 May 2020 10:35]
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| Last 10 years on 10:44 - May 29 with 1165 views | kingo |
| Last 10 years on 10:07 - May 29 by switchingcode |
Now on hereðŸ‘Brighton would be my choice gone from having no ground playing at Gillingham and the dreadful Withdean saw Brentford play brighton at both those grounds also at the great Goldstone.From those days playing in front of barely 2000 fans they have gone to playing in the top league in a superb new 30,000 stadium that sells out every home game.This all achieved in under 10 years and by Matthew Benhams old mate Tony Bloom. |
Brighton are a very good set up, as are Brentford. But the original question came about because your fellow bee, stated that good old uncle Peter has had the last laugh on QPR as you had had the better of things over recent times. So it made me wonder, would I take your stability over the last 10 years (50 years was a no brainier) or was I happier with the undoubted lows but also memorable highs. For me it is the rollercoaster, as football for me is being part of those priceless moments. | |
| RIP: Sniffer, Doug and Pat |
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| Last 10 years on 10:46 - May 29 with 1162 views | TheChef |
| Last 10 years on 08:02 - May 28 by daveB |
We've had some bad and miserable times in the last 10 years but also some very good ones, every season has had highs making them worth it
2009/10 - Win at Palace to keep us up
2010/11 - The whole thing
2011/12 - Beating Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, Everton away, the 2 City games
2012/13 - Some of Remy's performances, beating Chelsea away
2013/14 - Yeovil awayday, playoffs
2014/15 - First half of the season at home was really good those home games against Leicester, Burnley, Villa, Liverpool and City all really exciting
2015/16 & 2016/17 - A bit shit really
2017/18 - Better stuff, enjoyed that Holloway team and the emergence of youngsters suc as Bright, Smyth and Eze
2018/19 - That cup run and the form in October - December was very exciting
2019/20 - Loved it all so far
It's not been that bad and we shouldn't be so down on ourselves only focussing on the many bad points of the last 10 years. If you did the 10 years before it was genuinely a lot worse bar 3 seasons with Holloway
i'm QPR I wouldn't want to be anyone else. |
2016-17 - we had that lovely Dryworld home kit.
Still don't know how the 97-98 Le Coq Sportif rubbish beat it in the kit world cup. |  |
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| Last 10 years on 10:58 - May 29 with 1149 views | Esox_Lucius |
Four seasons of watching Adel would be enough for me without all the other good stuff Dave listed. Being stood outside SAR when Clem announced "no points deduction". The pubs on the Uxbridge Road for hours after the end of the game. Being stood right where Mackie headed in our 2nd goal at Man City. Hoillett sitting Buxton down, avoiding the second defender before crossing to Keogh for THAT set up. Just about every goal this season, and the build up play. The work done for the Grenfell fire victims and the rest of the community work. The support for Mark Prince's work on combating knife crime.
All these things make me glad, and proud, that I support QPR and I wouldn't swap it for any other team's success. |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| Last 10 years on 11:22 - May 29 with 1135 views | St_Pollock |
| Last 10 years on 10:25 - May 29 by rsonist |
Sincerely don't recall ever hearing this take before.
In fact it was always my understanding (more gleaned in retrospect than fully appreciated at the time when I was young admittedly) that the Wasps venture was pretty much the only relatively successful thing he did during his time, in that it washed its own face and added value and not debt burden to the club (though it copped unwarranted flak from the fanbase at the time). I can only imagine you're thinking the stock market flotation was contingent on the merger and therefore etc etc?
Baffled at your crediting him with fiscal responsibility otherwise. He had a showman's reckless mindset (personally signing Vinnie Jones over Harford's head?) and delegated to incompetence like Clive Berlin who in his absence undermined the good base we already had and frittered away new investment gambling on promotion until we could no longer support ourselves. A well meaning but catastrophically naive man who never had his eye on the crucial fine print; Fernandes very much a repeat on a bigger scale. |
The Wasps venture was an unmitigated disaster for QPR. Absolute disaster.
Ironically although their fans have very mixed views about Wright, his tenure as owner coincided with an incredibly successful period for them. However, as QPR FC effectively owned them we subsidised them which took significant money out of the club which weakened us and then subsequently cost them.
He was trying to establish a sports set up seen in most European countries but didn't know how to do so successfully. His naivety cost us, them and him.
The share flotation was another great innovative idea and he sought good advice from his legal and financial teams who would have pointed out the success of Spurs as the barometer of how they can go right. It paid for us to buy John Spencer, for example, and if we hadn't blown 96/97 it would have propelled us forwards.
However, similar to Bulstrude having a business brain rather than football one, it didn't take into account that it's one thing to give managers money to spend, it's another thing completely when it comes to making a success of purchases. Like Wilkins wasting £5.4 million and causing us to be relegated, Houston and Hartford cost us a similar amount between them which almost cost us relegation to the 3rd tier: Spurs and subsequent big clubs who floated can afford to waste money on players like that, we can't and that's where the business men's logic is wasted in football However, although all transfers are gambles, they weren't reckless purchases, they didn't work out but you can see why those players were signed unlike Wilkins and Hatley who was introduced to the Loftus Road fans in crutches at the age of 33... Dave Thomas' daily AKUTRS post covered the post of Director of Football yesterday... We've needed one for a lot longer than people realise..
Vinnie Jones and Neil Ruddock kept us up in 97/98 by making us a horrible team to play against and a poor side who could grind out a result - we only lost 1 match with them in the side and that was a dead rubber match - and he they were successful signings.
Where Wright went wrong is by allegedly offering Jones the manager's job. That led to all kinds of problems down the line.
Wright was niave and made one of the biggest blunders in QPR history but if you look at what he did you can see why he did things and how he was just too innovative.
He doesn't deserve our praise but he certainly doesn't deserve the reputation he currently has either. [Post edited 29 May 2020 11:38]
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| Last 10 years on 11:37 - May 29 with 1120 views | St_Pollock |
| Last 10 years on 07:24 - May 29 by distortR |
Chris Wright sold himself Twyford Avenue to cover his losses, not ours.
We've been paying for that action since. |
Twyford Avenue did not balance out the £20m + he lost and he ensured that it remained a training ground.
Have you seen how much we owe our current owners and how much we'd have to lose when they call in their debts?
Put it this way, if they don't wipe out that debt or we never find new owners willing to do so, unless we get significant success at one point we're going to lose our ground, our league status and the club.
That's what a day out at Wembley and 2 seasons of struggle in the Premier League cost us.
Wright wiped out significant debt which saved us, I don't share your optimism that the current board would do so... | | | |
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| Last 10 years on 12:41 - May 29 with 1083 views | rsonist |
| Last 10 years on 11:22 - May 29 by St_Pollock |
The Wasps venture was an unmitigated disaster for QPR. Absolute disaster.
Ironically although their fans have very mixed views about Wright, his tenure as owner coincided with an incredibly successful period for them. However, as QPR FC effectively owned them we subsidised them which took significant money out of the club which weakened us and then subsequently cost them.
He was trying to establish a sports set up seen in most European countries but didn't know how to do so successfully. His naivety cost us, them and him.
The share flotation was another great innovative idea and he sought good advice from his legal and financial teams who would have pointed out the success of Spurs as the barometer of how they can go right. It paid for us to buy John Spencer, for example, and if we hadn't blown 96/97 it would have propelled us forwards.
However, similar to Bulstrude having a business brain rather than football one, it didn't take into account that it's one thing to give managers money to spend, it's another thing completely when it comes to making a success of purchases. Like Wilkins wasting £5.4 million and causing us to be relegated, Houston and Hartford cost us a similar amount between them which almost cost us relegation to the 3rd tier: Spurs and subsequent big clubs who floated can afford to waste money on players like that, we can't and that's where the business men's logic is wasted in football However, although all transfers are gambles, they weren't reckless purchases, they didn't work out but you can see why those players were signed unlike Wilkins and Hatley who was introduced to the Loftus Road fans in crutches at the age of 33... Dave Thomas' daily AKUTRS post covered the post of Director of Football yesterday... We've needed one for a lot longer than people realise..
Vinnie Jones and Neil Ruddock kept us up in 97/98 by making us a horrible team to play against and a poor side who could grind out a result - we only lost 1 match with them in the side and that was a dead rubber match - and he they were successful signings.
Where Wright went wrong is by allegedly offering Jones the manager's job. That led to all kinds of problems down the line.
Wright was niave and made one of the biggest blunders in QPR history but if you look at what he did you can see why he did things and how he was just too innovative.
He doesn't deserve our praise but he certainly doesn't deserve the reputation he currently has either. [Post edited 29 May 2020 11:38]
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"Wright was niave and made one of the biggest blunders in QPR history but if you look at what he did you can see why he did things... He doesn't deserve our praise but he certainly doesn't deserve the reputation he currently has either"
Yeah I just don't see why Wright gets all your shoulda coulda woulda sympathies, deflected blame and Wilkins whataboutery where the others cop full responsibility and condemnation. Is there anything you could point to that would evidence Wasps being the primary drain on our resources over the enormous contracts (down to undeserved youth team level) he was happy to sign off? Because I just don't see it.
I often argue this on here to deaf ears but "you can see why he did things" applies to Fernandes just as much. For a Houston, a Hughes, a Ruddock a Samba and so on. To what extent we mitigate our frustration and ire at failure of those in charge for context, fine margins, and meaning well is a running question. [Post edited 29 May 2020 12:42]
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| Last 10 years on 12:45 - May 29 with 1080 views | danehoop |
| Last 10 years on 11:37 - May 29 by St_Pollock |
Twyford Avenue did not balance out the £20m + he lost and he ensured that it remained a training ground.
Have you seen how much we owe our current owners and how much we'd have to lose when they call in their debts?
Put it this way, if they don't wipe out that debt or we never find new owners willing to do so, unless we get significant success at one point we're going to lose our ground, our league status and the club.
That's what a day out at Wembley and 2 seasons of struggle in the Premier League cost us.
Wright wiped out significant debt which saved us, I don't share your optimism that the current board would do so... |
Was really enjoying your points Pollock, but currently club has minimal actual debt to the owners as they have effectively written this off through a debt equity swap. It doesn’t mean there won’t be a price to pay in any future sale of the club. But it seems very unlikely that the current owners will ever make back what they have invested. |  |
| Never knowingly understood |
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| Last 10 years on 12:52 - May 29 with 1078 views | terryb |
| Last 10 years on 10:25 - May 29 by rsonist |
Sincerely don't recall ever hearing this take before.
In fact it was always my understanding (more gleaned in retrospect than fully appreciated at the time when I was young admittedly) that the Wasps venture was pretty much the only relatively successful thing he did during his time, in that it washed its own face and added value and not debt burden to the club (though it copped unwarranted flak from the fanbase at the time). I can only imagine you're thinking the stock market flotation was contingent on the merger and therefore etc etc?
Baffled at your crediting him with fiscal responsibility otherwise. He had a showman's reckless mindset (personally signing Vinnie Jones over Harford's head?) and delegated to incompetence like Clive Berlin who in his absence undermined the good base we already had and frittered away new investment gambling on promotion until we could no longer support ourselves. A well meaning but catastrophically naive man who never had his eye on the crucial fine print; Fernandes very much a repeat on a bigger scale. |
I am probably 100% wrong on this, especially as It was rare that I saw Rangers at that time, but I was always told that the football section financed the rugby section.
For instance, that the income from Wasp's games at LR all went to rugby whie the cost of those games was met by football. Wasn't there also something about the sale of Wasp's ground/training pitches only benefitting rugby while they then had first use on our training ground?
This might all be complete bulls**t & that Wasp's never owned either, but it is what I was told by someone I considered a very reliasble source. | | | |
| Last 10 years on 12:52 - May 29 with 1078 views | switchingcode |
| Last 10 years on 10:44 - May 29 by kingo |
Brighton are a very good set up, as are Brentford. But the original question came about because your fellow bee, stated that good old uncle Peter has had the last laugh on QPR as you had had the better of things over recent times. So it made me wonder, would I take your stability over the last 10 years (50 years was a no brainier) or was I happier with the undoubted lows but also memorable highs. For me it is the rollercoaster, as football for me is being part of those priceless moments. |
For many years I went to Loftus Road when Brentford weren’t playing going back to seeing Stan’s debut and pretty sure his last game for Carlisle at Loftus rd.Back in the 70s the thought that we would ever be playing each other apart from a cup game was never a consideration.That team in the 70s I would loved to have seen in red and white stripes.So as you say the last 50 years is a non brainer.For me the last 10 years have been a joy even though apart from promotion to the championship we have won nothing the progression on and off the field have been incredible.5 top half finishes in the championship with one of the smallest budgets is a great achievement.Fully understand some of your fans rubbishing what we have done considering you have had 3 seasons in the PL but that has come with some real long term damage to your club. | | | |
| Last 10 years on 12:53 - May 29 with 1074 views | switchingcode |
| Last 10 years on 10:34 - May 29 by rsonist |
Not surprised you'd say that as they are practically the only contender for being your mirror/sister club strategically.
Is there any scurrilous talk on your lot's side what Benham and Bloom's mysterious bitter silent feud is all about? [Post edited 29 May 2020 10:35]
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Yes have heard about the fall out but haven’t a clue what it’s about. | | | |
| Last 10 years on 12:56 - May 29 with 1069 views | St_Pollock |
| Last 10 years on 12:52 - May 29 by terryb |
I am probably 100% wrong on this, especially as It was rare that I saw Rangers at that time, but I was always told that the football section financed the rugby section.
For instance, that the income from Wasp's games at LR all went to rugby whie the cost of those games was met by football. Wasn't there also something about the sale of Wasp's ground/training pitches only benefitting rugby while they then had first use on our training ground?
This might all be complete bulls**t & that Wasp's never owned either, but it is what I was told by someone I considered a very reliasble source. |
No, you're not wrong at all.
The football club subsidised the rugby club significantly and then we relied on the little profit they could share with us once we ran out of money.
It was an unbelievable disaster. | | | |
| Last 10 years on 13:00 - May 29 with 1064 views | St_Pollock |
| Last 10 years on 12:45 - May 29 by danehoop |
Was really enjoying your points Pollock, but currently club has minimal actual debt to the owners as they have effectively written this off through a debt equity swap. It doesn’t mean there won’t be a price to pay in any future sale of the club. But it seems very unlikely that the current owners will ever make back what they have invested. |
Wasn't it just £22m of the FFP fine which was wiped out rather than other significant debts? | | | |
| Last 10 years on 13:12 - May 29 with 1059 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Last 10 years on 13:00 - May 29 by St_Pollock |
Wasn't it just £22m of the FFP fine which was wiped out rather than other significant debts? |
No, the debts have been written off as well. |  |
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| Last 10 years on 13:20 - May 29 with 1038 views | St_Pollock |
| Last 10 years on 13:12 - May 29 by BrianMcCarthy |
No, the debts have been written off as well. |
That's good to know and hopefully they've learnt their lessons of reckless spending 👠| | | |
| Last 10 years on 13:38 - May 29 with 1024 views | rsonist |
| Last 10 years on 12:56 - May 29 by St_Pollock |
No, you're not wrong at all.
The football club subsidised the rugby club significantly and then we relied on the little profit they could share with us once we ran out of money.
It was an unbelievable disaster. |
Happy to stand corrected if that's the case. But take the emphasis on Wasps' supposed burden out of it and are we left in any way with someone who didn't steer us into deep existential trouble? Could we have sustained ourselves for very much longer or dug our way out of it that much quicker without the rugby club to support? | | | |
| Last 10 years on 13:40 - May 29 with 1023 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Last 10 years on 13:20 - May 29 by St_Pollock |
That's good to know and hopefully they've learnt their lessons of reckless spending 👠|
Hopefully, St.
It first happened just before Ferdinand came in when they wrote off £180m or so. Since then they've covered our losses. To be fair to them the last four years have seen our finances run sensibly and prudently. The few years prior to that... well, not so much!
We're in good shape now, and looking forward. | |
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| Last 10 years on 13:45 - May 29 with 1015 views | NewBee |
| Last 10 years on 10:29 - May 25 by stevec |
3 years in the Prem
Championship Play off win at Wembley
Bit hard for Brentford even trying to compare as they’ve never known either. |
Not quite.
Bees were admitted to the 3rd Division of Football League in 1920/21, dropping down to the 3rd Division South (i.e. joint 4th tier) a season later following a reorganisation. Same with QPR.
Bees and QPR both stayed there until 1933/34, when Bees got promotion to the 2nd Division, finishing fourth. They won the Division the following season, so competing in the (old) 1st Division in 1935/36, when they finished 5th - London's top club that season.
They subsequently finished 6th, 6th and 18th (oops), before WWII intervened. During the war they twice reached the final of the London War Cup, winning it the second time, at Wembley.
QPR remained in the 3rd Division South throughout all those years.
Of course after the war, Bees went straight down, since when we've mostly been in the 3rd tier, barring a few years in the 4th or 2nd. While I'm sure you know QPR's post-war history a lot better than me.
No-one really still remembers Brentford's glory years, but speaking to old timers who've been watching at GP since the late-40's or 50's, they're pretty unanimous that this last decade is the most enjoyable they remember to be a Bee. And that's all you can say, really.
Meanwhile, if QPR fans wouldn't swap their last decade for Brentford's, that's fair enough, since it's all about what you actually feel, not what you "should" feel according to some playground game of Top Trumps to decide which was "best".
As for the worst of times, while you can blame eg Palliadini or Redknapp for your troubles, Bees fans still hark back to Hitler for screwing us.
And he was a Chelsea fan. | | | |
| Last 10 years on 13:59 - May 29 with 1005 views | Esox_Lucius |
| Last 10 years on 13:40 - May 29 by BrianMcCarthy |
Hopefully, St.
It first happened just before Ferdinand came in when they wrote off £180m or so. Since then they've covered our losses. To be fair to them the last four years have seen our finances run sensibly and prudently. The few years prior to that... well, not so much!
We're in good shape now, and looking forward. |
The boardroom has also undergone significant change in the last three years with TF & KM being moved to a less influential position which, I believe, has led to QPR learning the lessons they needed to and paving the path for a full and self sufficient recovery. | |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| Last 10 years on 14:45 - May 29 with 987 views | danehoop |
| Last 10 years on 13:45 - May 29 by NewBee |
Not quite.
Bees were admitted to the 3rd Division of Football League in 1920/21, dropping down to the 3rd Division South (i.e. joint 4th tier) a season later following a reorganisation. Same with QPR.
Bees and QPR both stayed there until 1933/34, when Bees got promotion to the 2nd Division, finishing fourth. They won the Division the following season, so competing in the (old) 1st Division in 1935/36, when they finished 5th - London's top club that season.
They subsequently finished 6th, 6th and 18th (oops), before WWII intervened. During the war they twice reached the final of the London War Cup, winning it the second time, at Wembley.
QPR remained in the 3rd Division South throughout all those years.
Of course after the war, Bees went straight down, since when we've mostly been in the 3rd tier, barring a few years in the 4th or 2nd. While I'm sure you know QPR's post-war history a lot better than me.
No-one really still remembers Brentford's glory years, but speaking to old timers who've been watching at GP since the late-40's or 50's, they're pretty unanimous that this last decade is the most enjoyable they remember to be a Bee. And that's all you can say, really.
Meanwhile, if QPR fans wouldn't swap their last decade for Brentford's, that's fair enough, since it's all about what you actually feel, not what you "should" feel according to some playground game of Top Trumps to decide which was "best".
As for the worst of times, while you can blame eg Palliadini or Redknapp for your troubles, Bees fans still hark back to Hitler for screwing us.
And he was a Chelsea fan. |
I blame Mark Hughes as well, he probably was a Chelsea fan. | |
| Never knowingly understood |
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| Last 10 years on 14:58 - May 29 with 979 views | joe90 |
I've said it before and will say it again. Brentford are desperately trying to manufacturer a rivalry. I don't see them as a rival, I really don't care about them. QPR are an iconic club with a much more illustrious history, part of which have been our failings as well as our success's.
Brentford are an average Championship side - at best. QPR are an average Championship side - at worst. Personally, I'd stick to our plan of developing young, talented players. |  | | |
| Last 10 years on 15:22 - May 29 with 975 views | St_Pollock |
| Last 10 years on 13:38 - May 29 by rsonist |
Happy to stand corrected if that's the case. But take the emphasis on Wasps' supposed burden out of it and are we left in any way with someone who didn't steer us into deep existential trouble? Could we have sustained ourselves for very much longer or dug our way out of it that much quicker without the rugby club to support? |
Good question.
My own personal opinion is that we would have had to struggle around the 2nd/3rd tier for 5 years ish but would have avoided going into administration and losing significant money.
We had players of value who we could have sold to balance the losses associated with no being promoted in either 97 or 98 but would have had to shop around the lower leagues and promote youth team players for a few seasons.
We still had the rements of the scouting system developed from Gregory's era onwards and would have found the players we needed but it takes time to gel and we would have had to accept a transition period.
We would have been OK in my opinion though. | | | |
| Last 10 years on 15:29 - May 29 with 973 views | St_Pollock |
| Last 10 years on 14:58 - May 29 by joe90 |
I've said it before and will say it again. Brentford are desperately trying to manufacturer a rivalry. I don't see them as a rival, I really don't care about them. QPR are an iconic club with a much more illustrious history, part of which have been our failings as well as our success's.
Brentford are an average Championship side - at best. QPR are an average Championship side - at worst. Personally, I'd stick to our plan of developing young, talented players. |
You mean like the way we tried to manufacture a fake rivalry with Chelsea? Or like the way we still embarrass ourselves singing about how we hate Cardiff City which leaves them scratching their heads?
Brentford aren't trying to manufacture anything. They are our traditional rivals and that rivalry goes back further than Gregory trying to buy Griffin Park. That made it more turbulent but they were always our biggest rivals before and are still.
Also, QPR had a 40 year period where we were far better than them. That's out of a 138 year history where both sides can claim to be the better side at various moments. | | | |
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