| QPR, Redknapp, The Future 19:03 - Dec 10 with 8095 views | Antti_Heinola |
So, another mini rant after my one about Niko the other week which caused some mild debate, where I found most people agreed with me.
I've been thinking a lot about this season and it feels very weird. There's been a lot of comment about the good strong start, the strong defence, the change in attitude, which then morphed into concerns about negative play and the basically dead atmosphere at LR each week.
And I'm worried. I'm obviously pleased with where we are, but I can't say I'm delighted. I certainly don't have that giddy feeling I had with Olly's promotion squad in 2003/4 or Warnock's excellent team of 3 years ago. This partly because I think we're so detached from the players because they're virtually all new, partly a bit of my love for the club died a bit with last season's shambles, and partly, as Clive said so eloquently in his match report from Saturday, that I'm frankly bored at most games. Pleased with results, but bored at the games. A strange feeling.
A personal opinion is that we will almost definitely win promotion. That's not arrogance, it's just that we're not far off halfway through the season and I have yet to see a single team that scares me or should scare Redknapp or the squad. But it fills me with no excitement. I have no great wish to be in the Prem and on top of that I don't really feel like it would be the great achievement it was 3 years ago, where we went from relegation candidates to champions within a year. We can talk about how Redknapp has turned the club around, but personally I think most half-decent managers given the resources he had would be performing in a similar way.
This campaign reminds me of Birmingham under McLeish in this league a few years back - dull, but better than most other teams. I was thinking today how I'll feel should we get promoted and I honestly can't imagine going crazy like I did at that Oldham game, or when we beat Shearer's Blackburn 1-0 in 1992 and I started thinking we were title contenders, or when Adel stole us a point in a 2-2 draw at Cardiff. Because at the moment I feel a bit numb at games. I would think this was just me, but the atmosphere at games tells me I'm not alone.
Of course, I'm grateful to Beard and Fernandes. I think they've turned things around and are making good decisions and are here for the long haul and I do trust them. I don't blame them too much for what happened 18 months ago with Hughes. They picked an experienced manager, trusted him, and he failed, badly. They listened to a 'football person' - what else were they supposed to do? And of course I'm pleased we're second in the league and have only lost 2 games. But... but...
As I've said before on here, winning isn't everything to me in football. I go for a release, for fun, for entertainment. I'm desperate to win, believe me, but I want to see decent football first and foremost.
I'm not a fan of Redknapp the person, but I do think he's a decent, if overrated, manager. But I am struggling to understand why he has so far failed to get more out of this squad. Bournemouth, to me, papered over the cracks. It wasn't significantly better than any other performance and not even too dissimilar to the Blackburn performance, which has been panned in most quarters.
I know we have had injuries (all clubs have injuries), but we also have, I believem by far the best squad in this division. Why has he still not found a way to make this lot play some exciting, attacking football? The midfield is still in a state of flux. He's struggling to include AJ, even though clearly he and Austin have a good understanding. Why, with all the advantages he's been given, are we still saying 'he needs time', 'they need time to gel'. No one gave Hughes that courtesy. And Warnock had the team playing attacking football in a shorter timespan. Warnock developed a system, put the players in to suit it, stuck with it. Players got injured, but other players came in and replaced them and did the job. Why is Redknapp still struggling with this?
All of this is tied up in our transfer policy, which to my mind has not significantly changed since the debacle of summer 2012. We're still signing old players. We're still mainly looking at big name players. We're still looking short term. None of these players, except Karl Henry (£1m?) are bad signings in isolation, but together they are making a storm that wqe will have to weather again next summer because of a lack of forward planning. Why are we signing Yossi? Why don't we wait a month and buy a younger player who might grow into the team and be useful were we to go up next season. Build the team like that? Again, I like Yossi and think he's a good player, but the thinking is short term.
For those that argue 'if he's the difference and we go up, who cares?' I say, firstly, we're top without him, so why do we need him? And secondly, look at the bigger picture. He's 33, and only played 40 odd games in 4 years. How is this a sensible signing? How is this different to Bosingwa? Or Park? Again, he may well be good for us for a few months, but then we'll have to replace him anyway. It's all short term and the way we're going we'll have exactly the same problems in the prem that we had last time - no continuity, no team spirit, a brand new team.
I know I sound ungrateful and boring, but this is how I feel. Are others worried too? Or is this just me? |  |
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| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 20:55 - Dec 11 with 1224 views | derbyhoop |
Ehmer, Harriman, Hitchcock (+ Doughty, Andrade, Petrasso) are probably playing at the appropriate level for this stage of their careers. It would be a huge step up from L1 to the Premier League but the experience they are getting now will be better for them than 10 minutes here and there - if that - in the Championship.
I do agree that signing players like Onyewu, Chevanton and Benayoun represents the same short term thinking that proved so expensive last time. The difference is that they are all on short term deals.
I would hope that our scouts (don't laugh) have been looking at considerably younger options and that 1 or 2 come in during January. If we can do that and add another 3 or 4 (no more) in the Summer, we can put together a squad capable of both getting and staying up. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 22:07 - Dec 11 with 1171 views | FredManRave |
Expectation, Change, Defeatism.
It seems to me that people are moving the goal posts with regards to expectations. I would
guess that the vast majority on here would have bitten the preverbial hand off if anybody had
offered joint top (a.k.a. second place by Kensal!) at mid december. But now that we are
people are saying yes that's all well and good but what about the style of play, the lack of
goals, etc. With that approach you will never, ever be happy with the things. Personally I just
remember how bad things were and what the expectations were for the following season, and I think, all things considered we've seen a quite miraculous turn around.
As for the malaise and general "Meh" factor around the club I put that down to change.
Football fans, least of all, the older generation of football fans, like change. And like it or not
but football and the whole match day experience changes year after year and I think the majority would suggest in a negative way. It's been mentioned on here recently about the lack of atmosphere and not just at our place but in general. The cost of going, the disconnect
between fans and players, the poor atmosphere, the "progress" of football in general (new team names, colours, lifeless and soulless stadiums to name but a few things, the exorbitant wages and player attitudes to name but a few) have all resulted in less connection and passion between club and fans.
Finally, despite what happened during our last visit to the Premier League I am surprised by the amount of defeatism that's about regarding our potential return. We all know what happened but I don't think it would happen again. Fernandes has undoubtedly learned from the experience and is already showing that the same mistakes won't be made again. We would presumably still have Redknapp at the helm so an experienced Prem manager to help start what would hopefully the initial process of having a long stay in the Premier League. Talking purely about football I just can't see how people can say that they'd be happy and even prefer to be in the CCC. It just seems to miss the whole point of sport and supporting your team. Not only wanting to win but more importantly win againt the best teams whilst watching the best football as well as having the pleasure of watching Premier League players playing for us. Just how much is everybody enjoying BAE, at the moment? Wanting to experience and watch the best quality of football surely has to be the aim. Just because it didn't work out the last time doesn't mean it won't the next time. And after what happened it should make us all more determined to get it right next time around. I bet there aren't many Southampton fans hankering for the CCC! |  |
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| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 22:22 - Dec 11 with 1160 views | Antti_Heinola |
| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 20:19 - Dec 11 by Northernr |
Ok, here's a thought. At the start of the season, when Hitchcock scored against Ipswich, I got in a row on here with someone who said he should be playing more often etc etc. Basically, at the time, I felt the ship needed steadying, I felt we were in grave danger of going through this league like Wolves did, and I didn't think slinging a load of kids in was right.
Well the ship is steadied now, and credit to Harry Redknapp and his team for that. I think what we've done so far is remarkable.
But to be honest what I'd like to see now is a team that has Ehmer in, that has Hitchcock in and Michael Harriman. I don't want to see us sign Onyewu on a six month deal, Benayoun on a nine month deal and so on, and just do a load of short term stuff to get us back to the Prem because:
1 - The Prem wasn't that great last time we were there.
2 - The fact that we did a load of short term stuff to get there last time was the reason we found it such a slog.
The finances of the TV deals and our club means we need to get back ASAP and I accept that. But ideally I'd rather finish eighth this season with a team that has Hitchcock, Ehmer, Harriman etc playing regularly and get promoted in four or five years time with a clear philosophy, a training ground in place etc, than bumble our way up this year with a load of Benayoun types and find that when we get there all the same problems are still in place. |
Exactly. Harriman is obviously a half decent player - unfortunately (for him) Simpson has been almost relentlessly consistent! But I don't think Redknapp would put him in if there was an injury, even if he weren't on loan. We'd see someone more experienced shoe-horned in.
The extension to this is that, were we to get up, who will we go for? I can only see the usual round of Harry targets, and that worries me. | |
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| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 01:37 - Dec 12 with 1111 views | PunteR |
Rednapp has done a great job this season so far. If we get promoted,we will be in a better position then we were the last time. We wasn't ready for the prem. New owners of the club ,no kit sponsor,last minute signings, contracts not sorted out.
Just listened to Steve Gallen on the podcast ,who talks a lot of sense regarding the youth set up. We are years behind if we want to start bringing in youth to the first team.
We will never be a club like Southampton, Swansea etc, unless we start now, which would mean 5 or more years in the lower leagues and building from there. With the owners we have now i cant see them waiting that long. Fernandez should have bought us years ago if he wanted that challenge, but he bought us when we were premier league.
We are years away to be a fully established premier league club.
I go to about half our home games so to some i would be a casual fan, but i love QPR and i want us to play the best teams in the country week in week out, i honestly want to be in the premier league.
Do i want us to throw money at it to get there quickly but then get spanked every other week and get relegated quickly ? not really. Or do i want to wait 4-5 years and build our club slowly but surely, and spend a decade or so playing the top clubs?
As a club we've never been that calculated, and as soon as we start playing with passion ,with our heart on our sleeves then as fans we might enjoy it more.
Good thread, and im just rambling . [Post edited 12 Dec 2013 1:40]
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| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 05:44 - Dec 12 with 1092 views | jonno |
| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 22:07 - Dec 11 by FredManRave |
Expectation, Change, Defeatism.
It seems to me that people are moving the goal posts with regards to expectations. I would
guess that the vast majority on here would have bitten the preverbial hand off if anybody had
offered joint top (a.k.a. second place by Kensal!) at mid december. But now that we are
people are saying yes that's all well and good but what about the style of play, the lack of
goals, etc. With that approach you will never, ever be happy with the things. Personally I just
remember how bad things were and what the expectations were for the following season, and I think, all things considered we've seen a quite miraculous turn around.
As for the malaise and general "Meh" factor around the club I put that down to change.
Football fans, least of all, the older generation of football fans, like change. And like it or not
but football and the whole match day experience changes year after year and I think the majority would suggest in a negative way. It's been mentioned on here recently about the lack of atmosphere and not just at our place but in general. The cost of going, the disconnect
between fans and players, the poor atmosphere, the "progress" of football in general (new team names, colours, lifeless and soulless stadiums to name but a few things, the exorbitant wages and player attitudes to name but a few) have all resulted in less connection and passion between club and fans.
Finally, despite what happened during our last visit to the Premier League I am surprised by the amount of defeatism that's about regarding our potential return. We all know what happened but I don't think it would happen again. Fernandes has undoubtedly learned from the experience and is already showing that the same mistakes won't be made again. We would presumably still have Redknapp at the helm so an experienced Prem manager to help start what would hopefully the initial process of having a long stay in the Premier League. Talking purely about football I just can't see how people can say that they'd be happy and even prefer to be in the CCC. It just seems to miss the whole point of sport and supporting your team. Not only wanting to win but more importantly win againt the best teams whilst watching the best football as well as having the pleasure of watching Premier League players playing for us. Just how much is everybody enjoying BAE, at the moment? Wanting to experience and watch the best quality of football surely has to be the aim. Just because it didn't work out the last time doesn't mean it won't the next time. And after what happened it should make us all more determined to get it right next time around. I bet there aren't many Southampton fans hankering for the CCC! |
Sorry, but I just don't see the point of being in a sporting competition you can never win. And for a Club like ours, that is the Premier League. |  | | |
| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 09:51 - Dec 12 with 1057 views | daveB |
| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 20:19 - Dec 11 by Northernr |
Ok, here's a thought. At the start of the season, when Hitchcock scored against Ipswich, I got in a row on here with someone who said he should be playing more often etc etc. Basically, at the time, I felt the ship needed steadying, I felt we were in grave danger of going through this league like Wolves did, and I didn't think slinging a load of kids in was right.
Well the ship is steadied now, and credit to Harry Redknapp and his team for that. I think what we've done so far is remarkable.
But to be honest what I'd like to see now is a team that has Ehmer in, that has Hitchcock in and Michael Harriman. I don't want to see us sign Onyewu on a six month deal, Benayoun on a nine month deal and so on, and just do a load of short term stuff to get us back to the Prem because:
1 - The Prem wasn't that great last time we were there.
2 - The fact that we did a load of short term stuff to get there last time was the reason we found it such a slog.
The finances of the TV deals and our club means we need to get back ASAP and I accept that. But ideally I'd rather finish eighth this season with a team that has Hitchcock, Ehmer, Harriman etc playing regularly and get promoted in four or five years time with a clear philosophy, a training ground in place etc, than bumble our way up this year with a load of Benayoun types and find that when we get there all the same problems are still in place. |
Honestly though are Ehmer and Harriman better long term bets for us than Onoura and Simpson in those positions? I'd say not and they are better off learning the game in league one and see how they look when they return.
When young players like Bean, German, Bailey, Shimmin even Ray Jones in the past were given a go we moaned we needed more experience and they were all slated, now we pretend we've not had youth team players in the first team since Langley.
I'm baffled why anyone is happy to finish 8th, whose to say we will build forward on that, last time we came down we finished 8th ready to build with a fresh hungry squad, the likes of Spencer, Sinclair, Gallen etc ready to march us back up and we almost went down the following year.
You can have this long term vision in place but it all means nothing if you are in the Championship. Derby and Middlesbrough have excellent training grounds, nice stadiums and bring their own through, neither have been near a promotion push for years, quite the opposite and any decent player they have is sold at the first opportunity leaving them to start again. West Brom are hailed as the ideal club, they had not one but 3 bloody boring promotion seasons, loads of 1-0 wins all with teams built to get up and worry about staying up later. I know we don't like to admit it but football is a short term game and as much as we like to plan Belgium have shown most great teams just happen by accident.
Life's too short to piss ball around waiting for the ideal moment, take it whilst you can. The way I look at it if you are 18 years old and get the chance to shag an 18 year old then take it because if you wait and wait until you are too old the only way you are going to shag an 18 year old is if you pay for it and the longer we wait to get promoted the more we are going to have to pay for it. |  | | |
| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 19:56 - Dec 12 with 990 views | FredManRave |
| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 05:44 - Dec 12 by jonno |
Sorry, but I just don't see the point of being in a sporting competition you can never win. And for a Club like ours, that is the Premier League. |
Sport in general has absolutely nothing to do with the idea that if you can't win you shouldn't take part. It should be about the taking part and doing the best that you personally can whilst always trying to improve.
As far as our little old club is concerned I don't think we should accept our place in the CCC and set that as our limit. Even though we are a small club we should at least have some ambition to want to mix it with the big boys (whilst doing it within our means!). And as a result, as fans, we'd be seeing a better quality of football players both in our team and in the opposition. That has to be the aim surely?! [Post edited 12 Dec 2013 20:01]
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| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 16:00 - Dec 13 with 921 views | Rolfsson_Sweden |
| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 11:42 - Dec 11 by NW5Hoop |
Joey Barton has NOT grown to be a man we all love. There are plenty of us who appreciate his performances this season, but will never love him because of the appalling way he behaved at Man City, and the appalling way he talked about the club before his return. |
Okay, sorry. Meant to say "a man we all love, except for NW5Hoop". Get over it, we stayed up. |  | | |
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