| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? 13:07 - Jan 30 with 23919 views | Maggsinho |
Supposedly in Germany at the moment.
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| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 17:14 - Aug 24 with 2803 views | bosh67 |
It's probably going to cost us the best part of a million quid to pay him off for the season. Surely it would be cheaper to loan him out in the final year of his contract? Unless they can pay him off for a lot less this really doesn't make much sense. Even if someone came in and offered half a million in this division of Germany, surely it's better than paying the guy off and doing this again?
I really don't know why he is such a problem. He's not a bad player and he is our player. Perhaps his wife is just too damn beautiful, which she is, and that's distracting the squad? Would explain why we ship 2 goals a game if she's there in the stand watching. |  |
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| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 17:17 - Aug 24 with 2780 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 17:14 - Aug 24 by bosh67 |
It's probably going to cost us the best part of a million quid to pay him off for the season. Surely it would be cheaper to loan him out in the final year of his contract? Unless they can pay him off for a lot less this really doesn't make much sense. Even if someone came in and offered half a million in this division of Germany, surely it's better than paying the guy off and doing this again?
I really don't know why he is such a problem. He's not a bad player and he is our player. Perhaps his wife is just too damn beautiful, which she is, and that's distracting the squad? Would explain why we ship 2 goals a game if she's there in the stand watching. |
I can't understand it either. As you say, he's not that bad. There has to be more to this.
As for the loaning, I'm sure part-paying him off would only happen if there was no-one, absolutely no-one, willing to buy or loan him. |  |
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| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 17:26 - Aug 24 with 2715 views | Gloucs_R |
When was the last time we bought a player in from Europe and he was a success for us?
Wszolek, at a push bit can't think of another. |  |
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| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 17:29 - Aug 24 with 2703 views | eastside_r |
Find this baffling. There must be more to it than has been disclosed. |  | | |
| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 17:34 - Aug 24 with 2664 views | francisbowles |
| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 17:17 - Aug 24 by BrianMcCarthy |
I can't understand it either. As you say, he's not that bad. There has to be more to this.
As for the loaning, I'm sure part-paying him off would only happen if there was no-one, absolutely no-one, willing to buy or loan him. |
I agree he's not a bad player, just a very slow one.
Brian, haven't you previously highlighted that we have to play our defence much deeper when he is on the pitch? Not really suited to our play and I think he has become unsettled with the change of manager, loss of captaincy, the new baby and the loan which he hoped would be permanent. It may also be that his wife has tried London but prefers Berlin.
Additionally, it may be that he will accept quite a low offer to leave and we will free up some serious salary budget.
Always given his best, on and off the pitch, and I wish him the best of luck. |  | | |
| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 17:46 - Aug 24 with 2591 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 17:34 - Aug 24 by francisbowles |
I agree he's not a bad player, just a very slow one.
Brian, haven't you previously highlighted that we have to play our defence much deeper when he is on the pitch? Not really suited to our play and I think he has become unsettled with the change of manager, loss of captaincy, the new baby and the loan which he hoped would be permanent. It may also be that his wife has tried London but prefers Berlin.
Additionally, it may be that he will accept quite a low offer to leave and we will free up some serious salary budget.
Always given his best, on and off the pitch, and I wish him the best of luck. |
I wish him all the best, too, FB.
I do agree that he's too slow for our high(ish) line, but I really can't understand how no-one wants him elsewhere. | |
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| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 17:51 - Aug 24 with 2556 views | rsonist |
| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 16:36 - Aug 24 by Northernr |
I'll praise them and stick up for them when they deserve it. But going all out to sign a centre back from Germany on what, for us now, is a big wage one summer and then within 12 months make it clear you want him around so little you'll basically do anything to shift him, then end up paying him some money to leave, because you changed manager once and the new boss didn't fancy him is piss poor. It's the sort of sht that was going on before, it's the sort of sht a DOF system is meant to prevent. |
I've never been convinced that McClaren wasn't making do with what he was given in Leistner best he could. He was saying he wanted to play it out from the back from the first day he walked in same as Warbs. |  | | |
| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 17:53 - Aug 24 with 2549 views | Northernr |
| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 17:51 - Aug 24 by rsonist |
I've never been convinced that McClaren wasn't making do with what he was given in Leistner best he could. He was saying he wanted to play it out from the back from the first day he walked in same as Warbs. |
In which case that's even worse really.
Know I've told the story before but I do still remember that loooooooooong day at training watching Lumley, Lynch, Leistner and Scowen trying to run McClaren's pattern of play out from the back drill with split centre backs and a midfielder dropping deep. |  | | |
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| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 18:12 - Aug 24 with 2434 views | paulparker |
| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 17:53 - Aug 24 by Northernr |
In which case that's even worse really.
Know I've told the story before but I do still remember that loooooooooong day at training watching Lumley, Lynch, Leistner and Scowen trying to run McClaren's pattern of play out from the back drill with split centre backs and a midfielder dropping deep. |
That would have been some sight watching that lot trying to pass a football |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 18:50 - Aug 24 with 2301 views | Spaghetti_Hoops |
Blindingly obvious why Warbs does not want to accommodate Leistner in his team. He is trying to develop a team which plays out and can beat the press. Which requires the defenders to have vision, a good first touch and an instinct for moving the ball quickly and (hopefully) accurately. On the other hand Leistner needs time, two or three touches and then his instinct is to hit it long or trundle down the pitch with the ball at his feet. He is also very slow which makes a high line dodgy.
The system is a work in progress. The last thing Warbs needs is a player who will undo progress made so far.
Of course Leistner has his very useful strong points but has proved unable or unwilling to adapt to what Warbs needs. Probably both. As Leistner was adamant he wasn't coming back and knows he won't get in the team it should be possible to get rid without too much damage. | | | |
| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 19:00 - Aug 24 with 2258 views | Lblock |
Look guys it happens.....
You take a punt on these players and sometimes they just cannot settle in London and the suburbs of it.
We've just been unlucky with
Big Tone
Poulter the BFG Mk I
Sylla
Ariel Borysiuk
Yeni Ngbakoto
Samba Diakite, etc, etc
All the way back to Ned Zelic.
We'll be alright and we're in good hands with the squad for a couple of weeks time taking shape nicely.
Good luck to Toni as I think he's a much better player than many give him credit for, he was also a good Captain off the pitch doing a bit of community work for the club.
Onwards......... |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 19:15 - Aug 24 with 2193 views | VancouverHoop |
It is a bit strange that he can't find a place in either Shepherds Bush or Köln.
The latter aren't very good at the moment, but they are one of the top four supported clubs in Germany. Toni's salary shouldn't be any kind problem for them. I watched quite a few of their matches last season and he certainly didn't disgrace himself, or the club, so I'm not sure what all this is about. He's a very consistent, player. So why are are they, and us, trying to get rid of him? Must be something off the pitch I guess. | | | |
| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 19:56 - Aug 24 with 2060 views | Hooparoo |
Obviously we don’t know what goes on behind closed doors and maybe he’s a Billy big bollocks or something but I do know one thing, we conceded less goals from corners with him around. Reminds me of Dicky Dunne the way he always heads high balls away. Better championship centre half than our little French snowflake Monsieur Barbet. |  |
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| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 21:04 - Aug 24 with 1902 views | R_from_afar |
| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 19:00 - Aug 24 by Lblock |
Look guys it happens.....
You take a punt on these players and sometimes they just cannot settle in London and the suburbs of it.
We've just been unlucky with
Big Tone
Poulter the BFG Mk I
Sylla
Ariel Borysiuk
Yeni Ngbakoto
Samba Diakite, etc, etc
All the way back to Ned Zelic.
We'll be alright and we're in good hands with the squad for a couple of weeks time taking shape nicely.
Good luck to Toni as I think he's a much better player than many give him credit for, he was also a good Captain off the pitch doing a bit of community work for the club.
Onwards......... |
Great post  |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 21:39 - Aug 24 with 1825 views | derbyhoop |
For Leistner it's a good move. Clubs are more likely to take a punt on a free agent than a player under contract earning, allegedly, bug bucks.
The club pays him off, saving a sizeable chunk of wages (they wont pay the full contract amount), freeing up some headroom in the wages budget.
Here's the speculative bit:-
Paying somebody off does not count against FFP, whereas standard wages do. Certainly it could go down differently in the accounts.
And, if we bring in someone on less wages, we save again. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 22:04 - Aug 24 with 1749 views | Myke |
Leistner's strengths and weaknesses pros and cons for keeping/getting rid have been well documented so mo need to revisit. But with only a couple of weeks to our first competitive match, I would have thought it was prudent to secure a commanding CB before cutting our losses? | | | |
| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 22:36 - Aug 24 with 1652 views | ozexile |
| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 18:50 - Aug 24 by Spaghetti_Hoops |
Blindingly obvious why Warbs does not want to accommodate Leistner in his team. He is trying to develop a team which plays out and can beat the press. Which requires the defenders to have vision, a good first touch and an instinct for moving the ball quickly and (hopefully) accurately. On the other hand Leistner needs time, two or three touches and then his instinct is to hit it long or trundle down the pitch with the ball at his feet. He is also very slow which makes a high line dodgy.
The system is a work in progress. The last thing Warbs needs is a player who will undo progress made so far.
Of course Leistner has his very useful strong points but has proved unable or unwilling to adapt to what Warbs needs. Probably both. As Leistner was adamant he wasn't coming back and knows he won't get in the team it should be possible to get rid without too much damage. |
That's all well and good and we get that. But we are also in one of the most physical leagues in europe.
So as much as play it on the deck first time is lovely. There'll also be occasions when the opposition have a big ugly CF kicking lumps off people and winning headers. That's when we'll need him. | | | |
| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 22:48 - Aug 24 with 1604 views | Myke |
| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 22:36 - Aug 24 by ozexile |
That's all well and good and we get that. But we are also in one of the most physical leagues in europe.
So as much as play it on the deck first time is lovely. There'll also be occasions when the opposition have a big ugly CF kicking lumps off people and winning headers. That's when we'll need him. |
Agreed. Put simply, if the opposition had a Dykes in their forward line, would you rather Leistner or Barbet do battle with him? | | | |
| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 23:30 - Aug 24 with 1513 views | rsonist |
| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 22:36 - Aug 24 by ozexile |
That's all well and good and we get that. But we are also in one of the most physical leagues in europe.
So as much as play it on the deck first time is lovely. There'll also be occasions when the opposition have a big ugly CF kicking lumps off people and winning headers. That's when we'll need him. |
Well to be fair you don't get that because you've reduced the whole issue he's described of how the team is set up to function down to a individual physical duel in the narrow circumstances favourable to Leistner. | | | |
| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 00:28 - Aug 25 with 1431 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Am I the only one who doesn't think he's that slow?
My concern used to be his distribution, but I think he did ok when he played. |  | | |
| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 00:35 - Aug 25 with 1427 views | WestbourneR |
He’s definitely very slow but he’s actually not a bad passer at all, he plays good accurate forward passes and can defend. It’s a myth that he’s terrible on the ball.
If the alternative is we have to pay him off then I don’t see why he doesn’t just stay as a squad player. |  |
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| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 00:38 - Aug 25 with 1424 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 00:35 - Aug 25 by WestbourneR |
He’s definitely very slow but he’s actually not a bad passer at all, he plays good accurate forward passes and can defend. It’s a myth that he’s terrible on the ball.
If the alternative is we have to pay him off then I don’t see why he doesn’t just stay as a squad player. |
He can't be any slower than Hall or Cameron surely. Both of those played CB ahead of him a few times.
I have zero evidence for this, but it feels like a falling out to me. [Post edited 25 Aug 2020 0:40]
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| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 01:10 - Aug 25 with 1401 views | Hooparoo |
| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 00:38 - Aug 25 by BazzaInTheLoft |
He can't be any slower than Hall or Cameron surely. Both of those played CB ahead of him a few times.
I have zero evidence for this, but it feels like a falling out to me. [Post edited 25 Aug 2020 0:40]
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Agree. Seems like there’s something we’re not being told. I trust Warburton though so let’s see how it pans out. | |
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| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 01:14 - Aug 25 with 1397 views | ozexile |
| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 23:30 - Aug 24 by rsonist |
Well to be fair you don't get that because you've reduced the whole issue he's described of how the team is set up to function down to a individual physical duel in the narrow circumstances favourable to Leistner. |
Ok well let's see how we go when the season starts. Some of us have an alternative opinion which makes a message board what it is. | | | |
| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 01:37 - Aug 25 with 1374 views | rsonist |
| Toni Leistner to FC Koln? on 01:14 - Aug 25 by ozexile |
Ok well let's see how we go when the season starts. Some of us have an alternative opinion which makes a message board what it is. |
Except it's not an alternative opinion because no one's saying Leistner isn't good at what he's good at. Play a high line and build out from the back and not only is Leistner not so commanding individually but the entire MW gameplan begins to disintegrate, is what he's saying. | | | |
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