| The 20MPH punishments 08:34 - Aug 3 with 139464 views | SullutaCreturned |
Well the punishment for breaking the limit,
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/police-confirm-how-punish-drivers-
Given how many idiots are on the roads, the delivery drivers under pressure and the actual difficutly in staying below 20 (it is difficult, I do it every week when I go to Cardiff and it's harder than you'd think, specially going downhill) there will be a lot of speeding going on.
The Senedd expect the fire brigade to become a road safety unit, how stupid is that? The fire brigade have their job and it's hard enough for them to do that the way the Senedd behaves.
Then there's the pollution problem, all those cars tootling around in second gear will fill the streets with pollution, it'll rise and rise and the few accidents stopped by this madness will be replaced tenfold and more in the years to come by serious health issues, those with asthma can look out, better buy your respirators now.
I wonder if cancers will also increase?
By the time we have all gone electric, assuming we all do, thousands of lives will be blighted by illness. |  | | |  |
| The 20MPH punishments on 07:04 - Sep 21 with 1908 views | felixstowe_jack |
Over 330,000 signature now, an increase of over 80,000 in the last 24 hours.
That is an average of 8,250 per Senedd constituency. The average turnout during the last Senedd election was 27,990 per constituency. | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 08:18 - Sep 21 with 1866 views | Scotia |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:35 - Sep 20 by SullutaCreturned |
Hang on, include Plaid, they came thrd, they didn't get a mandate for anything.
Who voted Labour so Plaid could get a say?
Manifesto, as was said earlier, no one agrees with everything.
Of course the petitin will be ignored, as is everything the people want but the politicians don't. |
No - but those who voted Plaid also voted for the 20 mph speed limit. In a comparison between petition numbers and those who voted they should be included.
Also in a vote in the Senedd the Plaid members represent their mandate to represent those who voted for them - who also voted for the 20 mph speed limit.
The Senedd in it's current format isn't particularly democratic. Plaid and Labour are so similar from a policy point of view (execpt the obvious) and will always win either a majority for Labour or enter a coalition then what they want goes. That is why change is needed.
The 20 mph speed limit may have brought this to peoples attention becasue it directly impacts them individually and they notice it every day, but they need to take that forward to the ballot box. [Post edited 21 Sep 2023 8:32]
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| The 20MPH punishments on 08:43 - Sep 21 with 1845 views | Scotia |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:46 - Sep 20 by JACKMANANDBOY |
Most people think the principle is fine. The execution has been crap. There were two sections of road I used yesterday. Identical in terms of housing one side of the road and fields the other side.
One section is 20 and one 30. The 30 one includes a playing field! It's poor execution that is pissing people off. Another road had a mix of 20 and 30 signs that were totally confusing. |
I think this is a major problem.
I drove yeserday from Parc Tawe up Llangyfelach Road towards Llangyfelach. I live off Llangyfelach Road so took particular notice of the signage - there are also several speed cameras.
The first 20 mph sign I saw was near the Commercial in Brynhyfrhyd, past the schools to Brynhyfrhyd Cross is 20 mph, then at the lights there is a 30mph sign. I didn't see another 20mph sign during the rest of the journey. Most of the road is 30 mph.
The problem is everyone is now doing 20 mph along the entire road. When I turn out of my junction to join the main road I used to wait a few seconds now it's minutes as people are going so slowly and so close together I can't turn. For those extra minutes I'm sitting in a running car outside somebodies house pumping fumes out of my exhaust. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 08:50 - Sep 21 with 1839 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| The 20MPH punishments on 08:43 - Sep 21 by Scotia |
I think this is a major problem.
I drove yeserday from Parc Tawe up Llangyfelach Road towards Llangyfelach. I live off Llangyfelach Road so took particular notice of the signage - there are also several speed cameras.
The first 20 mph sign I saw was near the Commercial in Brynhyfrhyd, past the schools to Brynhyfrhyd Cross is 20 mph, then at the lights there is a 30mph sign. I didn't see another 20mph sign during the rest of the journey. Most of the road is 30 mph.
The problem is everyone is now doing 20 mph along the entire road. When I turn out of my junction to join the main road I used to wait a few seconds now it's minutes as people are going so slowly and so close together I can't turn. For those extra minutes I'm sitting in a running car outside somebodies house pumping fumes out of my exhaust. |
Yes I did that route yesterday, traffic at 20mph in 30 zones, I don't blame people it's unclear what the limits are. |  |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 10:08 - Sep 21 with 1803 views | controversial_jack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 08:50 - Sep 21 by JACKMANANDBOY |
Yes I did that route yesterday, traffic at 20mph in 30 zones, I don't blame people it's unclear what the limits are. |
30mph areas have defaulted to 20 mph | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:09 - Sep 21 with 1807 views | Scotia |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:08 - Sep 21 by controversial_jack |
30mph areas have defaulted to 20 mph |
No they haven't. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:38 - Sep 21 with 1797 views | AnotherJohn |
Personally, I find it hard to know whether an area covered by a 30 mph sign (which may not be easily visible or clearly associated with the road a mile further on) is one for which the council has obtained an exemption or one where the new sign hasn't yet been erected. Presumably if a sign hasn't yet been put up a prosecution is difficult, but given the confusing mishmash of signs it is hard to be sure what happens if a camera snaps you doing 29mph. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:53 - Sep 21 with 1785 views | controversial_jack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:09 - Sep 21 by Scotia |
No they haven't. |
So, if there’s no signs visible , we can’t be fined then? | | | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 10:53 - Sep 21 with 1791 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:08 - Sep 21 by controversial_jack |
30mph areas have defaulted to 20 mph |
Not all 30mph zones have defaulted, some people think they all have. | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 11:02 - Sep 21 with 1785 views | theloneranger |
Here's a reply from a councillor Peter Black concerning misleading signage ...
"Just an update on signage. I spoke to an officer today. There 3000 signs to be removed or erased to conform with the new regulations. They were only able to deal with 600 of them over the weekend, fewer than anticipated due to the weather. They are hoping to deal with the rest over the next fortnight. My advice is that if a road is signposted as 30mph then it would be difficult to penalise you for doing 30mph. Hopefully, this bizare regime will settle down in due course." |  |
| Everyday above ground ... Is a good day! 😎 |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 11:17 - Sep 21 with 1780 views | Scotia |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:53 - Sep 21 by controversial_jack |
So, if there’s no signs visible , we can’t be fined then? |
I'd say if the signs say 30 you you wouldn't be fined. If there are no signs you probably could. Apparently it depends on the distance between lamp posts.
I think 183 m is the figure - less than that is 20 mph, more is 30.
Drakeford proabbly expects us to measure. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 11:22 - Sep 21 with 1776 views | Boundy |
| The 20MPH punishments on 11:17 - Sep 21 by Scotia |
I'd say if the signs say 30 you you wouldn't be fined. If there are no signs you probably could. Apparently it depends on the distance between lamp posts.
I think 183 m is the figure - less than that is 20 mph, more is 30.
Drakeford proabbly expects us to measure. |
So to compound this folly we also have to carry a calibrated tape measure, nice | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 12:06 - Sep 21 with 1760 views | Whiterockin |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:38 - Sep 21 by AnotherJohn |
Personally, I find it hard to know whether an area covered by a 30 mph sign (which may not be easily visible or clearly associated with the road a mile further on) is one for which the council has obtained an exemption or one where the new sign hasn't yet been erected. Presumably if a sign hasn't yet been put up a prosecution is difficult, but given the confusing mishmash of signs it is hard to be sure what happens if a camera snaps you doing 29mph. |
Different councils have used different criteria for exemptions making it more confusing if you drive in different areas. You will get used to the speed limit on your regular routes but drive anywhere else and it's very confusing. |  | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 13:34 - Sep 21 with 1728 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| The 20MPH punishments on 11:22 - Sep 21 by Boundy |
So to compound this folly we also have to carry a calibrated tape measure, nice |
Plenty of time to measure the distance between the street lights while you’re stuck in a massive traffic jam. |  |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 13:36 - Sep 21 with 1726 views | union_jack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 11:02 - Sep 21 by theloneranger |
Here's a reply from a councillor Peter Black concerning misleading signage ...
"Just an update on signage. I spoke to an officer today. There 3000 signs to be removed or erased to conform with the new regulations. They were only able to deal with 600 of them over the weekend, fewer than anticipated due to the weather. They are hoping to deal with the rest over the next fortnight. My advice is that if a road is signposted as 30mph then it would be difficult to penalise you for doing 30mph. Hopefully, this bizare regime will settle down in due course." |
That will be the reason that in Kittle it’s 20mph going towards Gower and 30mph the opposite direction!
When I was coming back yesterday and noticed this, there was a driver impatiently trying to overtake the incoming car, swerving back in as he approached me then back out again straight after and overtook with speed. Moron! |  |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 16:31 - Sep 21 with 1671 views | controversial_jack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 13:34 - Sep 21 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Plenty of time to measure the distance between the street lights while you’re stuck in a massive traffic jam. |
I believe traffic has been moving well enough since the new limits were introduced | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 16:52 - Sep 21 with 1656 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The 20MPH punishments on 13:36 - Sep 21 by union_jack |
That will be the reason that in Kittle it’s 20mph going towards Gower and 30mph the opposite direction!
When I was coming back yesterday and noticed this, there was a driver impatiently trying to overtake the incoming car, swerving back in as he approached me then back out again straight after and overtook with speed. Moron! |
Thtis is, to me, part of the problem. I have been doing 20 in a 20 zone and had people hurtling past me. Then I have been forced down to 23 on Ponty bypass because someone didn't realise it was 40 despite the signs. I saw people overtaking badly there too. It ould easily cause accidents because the reason for most accidents is the bad drivers and I see many ignoring the 20 limit everywhere I go.
I was in Rhos earlier and a tracot was doing more than 20 through the village, it caught up with me.
Even worse now is Lee Waters saying they won't improve roads because it costs millions but they may decrease speed limits elsewhere because that's free...except it isn't because new signage and the things that go to doing that aren't free. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 17:31 - Sep 21 with 1624 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 16:52 - Sep 21 by SullutaCreturned |
Thtis is, to me, part of the problem. I have been doing 20 in a 20 zone and had people hurtling past me. Then I have been forced down to 23 on Ponty bypass because someone didn't realise it was 40 despite the signs. I saw people overtaking badly there too. It ould easily cause accidents because the reason for most accidents is the bad drivers and I see many ignoring the 20 limit everywhere I go.
I was in Rhos earlier and a tracot was doing more than 20 through the village, it caught up with me.
Even worse now is Lee Waters saying they won't improve roads because it costs millions but they may decrease speed limits elsewhere because that's free...except it isn't because new signage and the things that go to doing that aren't free. |
Many drivers do not take much notice of speed limits, the section of he M4 between J46 and 45 is a prime example, there has been a 50mph limit on that stretch for quite a while and I would suggest that 75% off drivers completely ignore it.
The Clydach and Pontardawe bypass, as you say, has a 40mph limit and drivers stick to it because of average speed camera’s.
Yesterday I drove from Loughor to Ystradgynlais, 20mph to Gorseinon then Penllegaer, then M4 and valley bypass. The journey took me about 5 minutes longer than usual. |  | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:16 - Sep 21 with 1588 views | Boundy |
| The 20MPH punishments on 16:31 - Sep 21 by controversial_jack |
I believe traffic has been moving well enough since the new limits were introduced |
What you believe ( as we all know ) isn't always the truth now is it | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 18:31 - Sep 21 with 1573 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:16 - Sep 21 by Boundy |
What you believe ( as we all know ) isn't always the truth now is it |
Well I went down to tesco Neath Abbey earlier and coming back, the queue from the roundabout back up the hill was all the way up to Cresci's and growing. I've never seen it that bad before.
As I have previoulsy said, it is affecting our work, we are less productive because of travelling times.
Give it a month and see maybe. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:56 - Sep 21 with 1539 views | AnotherJohn |
Elin Jones the Senedd presiding officer released the following statement:
"Overnight I have become aware of several members (myself included) receiving abusive and threatening messages on social media, email and telephone due to their stance on this topic. Our staff have had to deal with much of this this morning.
Whilst it is encouraging to see so many people engaging with the business of the Senedd – not least unprecedented interest in our petitions committee and its work - we all have a duty to ensure that public debate in Wales is measured, dignified and respectful. For us in this chamber, that means setting the tone for how we expect others to express their views – whatever their stance on the matter – in a way that does not demean or undermine any individual."
While it is wrong to intimidate MSs, I wonder whether some have brought abuse on themselves with their arrogant statements. Mick Antoniw tweeted that critics were "happy to see people and particularly children killed and injured on our roads". He has emerged from this looking like somebody who is utterly unfitted for his position as Counsel General. [Post edited 21 Sep 2023 18:59]
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| The 20MPH punishments on 19:26 - Sep 21 with 1529 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:56 - Sep 21 by AnotherJohn |
Elin Jones the Senedd presiding officer released the following statement:
"Overnight I have become aware of several members (myself included) receiving abusive and threatening messages on social media, email and telephone due to their stance on this topic. Our staff have had to deal with much of this this morning.
Whilst it is encouraging to see so many people engaging with the business of the Senedd – not least unprecedented interest in our petitions committee and its work - we all have a duty to ensure that public debate in Wales is measured, dignified and respectful. For us in this chamber, that means setting the tone for how we expect others to express their views – whatever their stance on the matter – in a way that does not demean or undermine any individual."
While it is wrong to intimidate MSs, I wonder whether some have brought abuse on themselves with their arrogant statements. Mick Antoniw tweeted that critics were "happy to see people and particularly children killed and injured on our roads". He has emerged from this looking like somebody who is utterly unfitted for his position as Counsel General. [Post edited 21 Sep 2023 18:59]
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Well I guess we'll have to wait and see but there are some things I think are certain to happen,
the petition will keep growing, for a while. maybe people will lose interest.
there will be accidents because of impatient drivers
people will see their petrol costs rising
Emissions will increase, they say this move is good for the climate but how can it be?
After that who knows but I think it's certain this petition won't change anything unless the electorate do get so riled they actually do turn out in bigger numbers and vote people from outside Labour, Plaid or tory. The only way to get change is to vote differently. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:39 - Sep 21 with 1520 views | builthjack |
The people overtaking illegally in dangerous places should be reported. Better to do that than moan on here. |  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| The 20MPH punishments on 19:44 - Sep 21 with 1510 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:39 - Sep 21 by builthjack |
The people overtaking illegally in dangerous places should be reported. Better to do that than moan on here. |
No point in reporting people unless there is dashcam evidence. I was in a works van with no dashcam.
Fortunately I do very little mileage in my car, I won't contribute too much extra to the raised emissions or to fuel tax which will go to the tories. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:26 - Sep 21 with 1479 views | fbreath |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:31 - Sep 21 by SullutaCreturned |
Well I went down to tesco Neath Abbey earlier and coming back, the queue from the roundabout back up the hill was all the way up to Cresci's and growing. I've never seen it that bad before.
As I have previoulsy said, it is affecting our work, we are less productive because of travelling times.
Give it a month and see maybe. |
I do that journey regularly and noticed the exact same thing. Also going in the other direction Birchgrove to Neath Abbey. Today I went towards Neath Abbey from Birchgrove at 17:40 and the other direction around 19:00. Both journeys much more traffic than usual.
My BMW shows fuel use as you drive along. I noticed fuel consumption was much higher than normal going up the hill after the old infants school. Plus trying to keep to 20mph is awkward as you are going up a steep gradient. |  |
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