| The 20MPH punishments 08:34 - Aug 3 with 139553 views | SullutaCreturned |
Well the punishment for breaking the limit,
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/police-confirm-how-punish-drivers-
Given how many idiots are on the roads, the delivery drivers under pressure and the actual difficutly in staying below 20 (it is difficult, I do it every week when I go to Cardiff and it's harder than you'd think, specially going downhill) there will be a lot of speeding going on.
The Senedd expect the fire brigade to become a road safety unit, how stupid is that? The fire brigade have their job and it's hard enough for them to do that the way the Senedd behaves.
Then there's the pollution problem, all those cars tootling around in second gear will fill the streets with pollution, it'll rise and rise and the few accidents stopped by this madness will be replaced tenfold and more in the years to come by serious health issues, those with asthma can look out, better buy your respirators now.
I wonder if cancers will also increase?
By the time we have all gone electric, assuming we all do, thousands of lives will be blighted by illness. |  | | |  |
| The 20MPH punishments on 15:19 - Sep 24 with 1492 views | union_jack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 15:14 - Sep 24 by Whiterockin |
It's not unusual for the former Dep of Leader Enfield council to be economical with the truth while posting on twitter. |
This may well have happened, possibly on a number of occasions. But I bet if you stripped these out, the number of genuine signatures would not be that far short of where they are now. |  |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 15:27 - Sep 24 with 1477 views | Whiterockin |
| The 20MPH punishments on 15:19 - Sep 24 by union_jack |
This may well have happened, possibly on a number of occasions. But I bet if you stripped these out, the number of genuine signatures would not be that far short of where they are now. |
They don't seem to be signing the petition to keep the 20mph, I wonder why. If they did surely it would be over 100,000 by now. |  | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:26 - Sep 24 with 1392 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 15:27 - Sep 24 by Whiterockin |
They don't seem to be signing the petition to keep the 20mph, I wonder why. If they did surely it would be over 100,000 by now. |
Possibly because they feel that they don’t need to, me for one.👍 |  | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:42 - Sep 24 with 1373 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The 20MPH punishments on 09:48 - Sep 24 by felixstowe_jack |
Looks like we are having a de facto referendum on the 20mph despite the Senedd refusing to have a proper debate before imposing it.
To rescind the disastrous 20 mph law 411,854
To keep the excellent 20 mph law 1,387
Two other petitions.
Initiate an early Senedd Election 12,087
Oppose the Welsh Government "Senedd reform bill" published 18th September 2023 becoming law. 1,105 |
The problem with a lot of these petitins is hardly anybody hears about them. Then you have to take into account that over half the electorate don't engage with politics.
As we age and die are less and less people young bothering with politics, or is it the older people who engage and the young uns who ignore it? | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:09 - Sep 24 with 1325 views | lifelong |
No complacency here, I will support these measures no matter who’s in power. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:10 - Sep 24 with 1323 views | SullutaCreturned |
I took this from that story,
They said that if the policy did not become widely accepted, as the Welsh Government argues it will be, potential for it to be a game changer in electoral terms was "terrifying". They said people did not distinguish between which administration was responsible for which policy.
If people genuinely cannot tell which policy came from which government then there are a lot of very dumb people around. it's all over the news that this is theSenedd's policy. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:18 - Sep 24 with 1308 views | Whiterockin |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:10 - Sep 24 by SullutaCreturned |
I took this from that story,
They said that if the policy did not become widely accepted, as the Welsh Government argues it will be, potential for it to be a game changer in electoral terms was "terrifying". They said people did not distinguish between which administration was responsible for which policy.
If people genuinely cannot tell which policy came from which government then there are a lot of very dumb people around. it's all over the news that this is theSenedd's policy. |
"If people genuinely cannot tell which policy came from which government then there are a lot of very dumb people around. it's all over the news that this is theSenedd's policy."
Particularly if you find ex Labour councillors allegedly signing the petition to reverse the 20mph speed limit, then advising others how to do it on twitter. Strange times indeed.  | | | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 19:23 - Sep 24 with 1303 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:18 - Sep 24 by Whiterockin |
"If people genuinely cannot tell which policy came from which government then there are a lot of very dumb people around. it's all over the news that this is theSenedd's policy."
Particularly if you find ex Labour councillors allegedly signing the petition to reverse the 20mph speed limit, then advising others how to do it on twitter. Strange times indeed. |
There again there are many dumb people about who will not support measures that have been proved to increase road safety and save lives. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:57 - Sep 24 with 1262 views | Dr_Winston |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:23 - Sep 24 by lifelong |
There again there are many dumb people about who will not support measures that have been proved to increase road safety and save lives. |
The best figure that I have seen suggest that cutting the limit may save "up to ten lives". That's nationwide. Hundreds of thousands of people inconvenienced daily with millions of pounds lost to the economy to save less than a dozen people, with no guarantee it'll do even that.
It's a number of potential lives saved so low as to be statistically insignificant so it's clearly not being done for safety reasons no matter what excuses they're selling to convince people. For comparison, 32 people were killed by cows in the UK between 2018 and 2022.
It's happening because Eco-Fanatics like Lee Waters want to see huge reductions in private transport use. It's why we've been subject to absurdities like the 50mph limit on the M4 in Port Talbot to reduce emissions, a stretch of the M4 that runs past a steelworks responsible for 3% of the UK's carbon on its own. It's the thin end of the wedge. If this is allowed to stand then there will be more to come. [Post edited 24 Sep 2023 20:09]
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| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 20:17 - Sep 24 with 1242 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:57 - Sep 24 by Dr_Winston |
The best figure that I have seen suggest that cutting the limit may save "up to ten lives". That's nationwide. Hundreds of thousands of people inconvenienced daily with millions of pounds lost to the economy to save less than a dozen people, with no guarantee it'll do even that.
It's a number of potential lives saved so low as to be statistically insignificant so it's clearly not being done for safety reasons no matter what excuses they're selling to convince people. For comparison, 32 people were killed by cows in the UK between 2018 and 2022.
It's happening because Eco-Fanatics like Lee Waters want to see huge reductions in private transport use. It's why we've been subject to absurdities like the 50mph limit on the M4 in Port Talbot to reduce emissions, a stretch of the M4 that runs past a steelworks responsible for 3% of the UK's carbon on its own. It's the thin end of the wedge. If this is allowed to stand then there will be more to come. [Post edited 24 Sep 2023 20:09]
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Not sure where you got that figure from.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web& | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:17 - Sep 24 with 1240 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:23 - Sep 24 by lifelong |
There again there are many dumb people about who will not support measures that have been proved to increase road safety and save lives. |
What about the increase in emissions? They could have a massive effect on respiratory diseases and make thousands of people ill,asthma may rise. Then there's the increased costs in fuel and servicing when we are in a cost of living crisis, it may force families into more debt.
Then there's the possibility of road rage incidents and more accidets as people drive even more badly to get past those of us obeying the new limits.
There are 2 sides to the debate but the Senedd is listening to only one.
As it goes, I believe if they had reduced it to 25 there would hardly have been a murmur. Even then they had to handle the roll out much better because this has been a mess, they couldn't arrange a piss up in a brewery. Lee Waters is incompetent.
But I'll bow to those who are so sure and will wait to see if this does save lives or whether it actually ruins more. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:49 - Sep 24 with 1221 views | Wingstandwood |
There is an irony that speed control will end up causing fatalities along with increased pollution that will kill even more after that. Yes indeed 20mph will save lives, but it will end up causing deaths also.
The British Lung Foundation has recognised that air pollution contributes to tens of thousands of early deaths every year.
St Johns Ambulance paramedics travel from Bridgend to places like Gower and beyond as back up for our struggling Welsh NHS ambulance service that is in a crisis state. Well response times are going to be even slower from here on in.
And likewise Welsh NHS ambulance services that travel long unacceptable distances, because they have to come from different health board area's as emergency response e.g. Llandovery to Pennard.... The last thing they want is the additional problem of having their life saving response times being made even slower by bottle necks, slow moving traffic and speed bumps.
And Welsh patients will die because of that bunch of incompetent backward yokels, whether that be from the ambulance service crisis, or the lunacy of their transport policy.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/roadhum |  |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 20:53 - Sep 24 with 1201 views | lifelong |
The article says that 421 people were killed or seriously injured on 30 mph roads in Wales last year.
I’ll accept the 10 more lives saved which means many more serious injuries would be avoided.
I’ve mentioned earlier on this thread that since the measures have been introduced I have driven a fair distance this past week to Ystradgynlais, Swansea, Llanelli and Burry Port and have noticed very little change in traffic conditions and time of journey. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 21:02 - Sep 24 with 1185 views | Whiterockin |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:53 - Sep 24 by lifelong |
The article says that 421 people were killed or seriously injured on 30 mph roads in Wales last year.
I’ll accept the 10 more lives saved which means many more serious injuries would be avoided.
I’ve mentioned earlier on this thread that since the measures have been introduced I have driven a fair distance this past week to Ystradgynlais, Swansea, Llanelli and Burry Port and have noticed very little change in traffic conditions and time of journey. |
Going from the M4 to Ystradgynlais 13 miles, how much of it was 20mph. I'll make it easy for you none. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 21:05 - Sep 24 with 1180 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 21:02 - Sep 24 by Whiterockin |
Going from the M4 to Ystradgynlais 13 miles, how much of it was 20mph. I'll make it easy for you none. |
There’s no need to make it easy, thank you. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 21:08 - Sep 24 with 1180 views | Dr_Winston |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:49 - Sep 24 by Wingstandwood |
There is an irony that speed control will end up causing fatalities along with increased pollution that will kill even more after that. Yes indeed 20mph will save lives, but it will end up causing deaths also.
The British Lung Foundation has recognised that air pollution contributes to tens of thousands of early deaths every year.
St Johns Ambulance paramedics travel from Bridgend to places like Gower and beyond as back up for our struggling Welsh NHS ambulance service that is in a crisis state. Well response times are going to be even slower from here on in.
And likewise Welsh NHS ambulance services that travel long unacceptable distances, because they have to come from different health board area's as emergency response e.g. Llandovery to Pennard.... The last thing they want is the additional problem of having their life saving response times being made even slower by bottle necks, slow moving traffic and speed bumps.
And Welsh patients will die because of that bunch of incompetent backward yokels, whether that be from the ambulance service crisis, or the lunacy of their transport policy.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/roadhum |
Yep.
It's not even a clever lie that they're trying to pull off, but it's obviously convincing some people. If it's being done in the name of safety then why is the Deputy Climate Change minister the public face of it?
You could argue that someone with the employment history of Lee Waters probably shouldn't be allowed to be involved in decisions like that anyway. If the former chief executive of BUPA ended up as Health Secretary questions would be asked about their suitability and motive for wanting the job, and rightly so. [Post edited 24 Sep 2023 21:09]
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| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 21:53 - Sep 24 with 1140 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:17 - Sep 24 by SullutaCreturned |
What about the increase in emissions? They could have a massive effect on respiratory diseases and make thousands of people ill,asthma may rise. Then there's the increased costs in fuel and servicing when we are in a cost of living crisis, it may force families into more debt.
Then there's the possibility of road rage incidents and more accidets as people drive even more badly to get past those of us obeying the new limits.
There are 2 sides to the debate but the Senedd is listening to only one.
As it goes, I believe if they had reduced it to 25 there would hardly have been a murmur. Even then they had to handle the roll out much better because this has been a mess, they couldn't arrange a piss up in a brewery. Lee Waters is incompetent.
But I'll bow to those who are so sure and will wait to see if this does save lives or whether it actually ruins more. |
In reply to your increase in emissions question.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web& | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 22:22 - Sep 24 with 1102 views | Boundy |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:23 - Sep 24 by lifelong |
There again there are many dumb people about who will not support measures that have been proved to increase road safety and save lives. |
And there are many dumb folk who support it despite a policy designed to cut growth waste millions, all to potentially save ,in fact proven not to save lives | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 23:01 - Sep 24 with 1085 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 22:22 - Sep 24 by Boundy |
And there are many dumb folk who support it despite a policy designed to cut growth waste millions, all to potentially save ,in fact proven not to save lives |
I was replying to another poster who inferred that people who supported the measures were dumb.
Spain introduced the measures in 1999 and deaths and serious injuries have been 20% less.
London introduced it in 2020 and deaths and serious injuries have been reduced by 25%. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 01:45 - Sep 25 with 1068 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| The 20MPH punishments on 23:01 - Sep 24 by lifelong |
I was replying to another poster who inferred that people who supported the measures were dumb.
Spain introduced the measures in 1999 and deaths and serious injuries have been 20% less.
London introduced it in 2020 and deaths and serious injuries have been reduced by 25%. |
Are the reductions in Spain due to the lower speed limit or the fact that cars in general have much better safety features than they did 24+ years ago? Also for much of 2020/2021 there were significantly less cars about in London and less people on the streets due to the covid pandemic so you would expect to see a significant decline in injuries for that period anyway.
Driving sensibly at 30mph is inherently very safe. I would wager the vast majority of injuries/deaths on the road are caused by people who are distracted by their phone or driving under the influence or generally driving like a maniac. Lowering the speed limit will not have any effect on these people. |  |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 06:32 - Sep 25 with 1052 views | Whiterockin |
| The 20MPH punishments on 23:01 - Sep 24 by lifelong |
I was replying to another poster who inferred that people who supported the measures were dumb.
Spain introduced the measures in 1999 and deaths and serious injuries have been 20% less.
London introduced it in 2020 and deaths and serious injuries have been reduced by 25%. |
Ok let's cut to the chase, I speak for myself here but possibly many agree. I am not against 20mph speed limits but they have to be in the correct areas, outside schools and highly populated areas like housing estates and town/village centres. But to drop a speed limit down to 20 mph from 30 mph in less populated areas like on a busy main road IMO is not practical. Some of these roads have pavements well away from the road and are reasonably safe with traffic light crossings, so why cut the limit. In Wales we have introduced the 20mph as a default speed limit on residential roads that were 30mph this is too excessive. Yes councils can opt out but there is no consistency and it seems to be who is the major party in the council to which way they apply the rules. If the rules in Wales had been applied sensibly there probably wouldn't have been any issues and the same safety targets would be achieved. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 07:07 - Sep 25 with 1042 views | Dr_Winston |
| The 20MPH punishments on 01:45 - Sep 25 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Are the reductions in Spain due to the lower speed limit or the fact that cars in general have much better safety features than they did 24+ years ago? Also for much of 2020/2021 there were significantly less cars about in London and less people on the streets due to the covid pandemic so you would expect to see a significant decline in injuries for that period anyway.
Driving sensibly at 30mph is inherently very safe. I would wager the vast majority of injuries/deaths on the road are caused by people who are distracted by their phone or driving under the influence or generally driving like a maniac. Lowering the speed limit will not have any effect on these people. |
I would wager that the vast majority of injuries and deaths on the road are caused by pedestrians or cyclists doing something stupid. The number of times I've turned into side streets and some complete numpty has stepped into the road in front of me because they've been paying no attention at all to what's going on around them is beyond belief. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 07:39 - Sep 25 with 1034 views | felixstowe_jack |
Petition signatures
Rescind the disastrous 20 mph law 422,589
Keep the excellent 20 mph law 2,383
Initiate an early Senedd Election 12,903 (this petition is now the 2nd most signed Senedd Petition) | |
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