| Gazball 08:33 - Apr 30 with 31912 views | DWQPR |
Was thinking that if more teams adopted Gazball as we’ve seen in the last couple of matches, could it leave the ball left on the halfway line with both teams sitting deep in their own halves waiting for the other team to make a move? |  |
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| Gazball on 11:35 - May 2 with 2381 views | daveB |
| Gazball on 11:32 - May 2 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Can you name any other club than Luton?
1 season in 40 where they are challenging. They are freaks. |
Coventry & Millwall |  | | |
| Gazball on 11:41 - May 2 with 2351 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Bournemouth was pre FFP and financially doped their side and Brentford was two years ago and took twenty years to develop. |  | | |
| Gazball on 12:22 - May 2 with 2240 views | ibnumber10 |
Coventry Luton and Millwall all currently in the playoffs
I’m impressed with what Mark Robins has done there, especially with what’s happened off the pitch. | | | |
| Gazball on 12:28 - May 2 with 2207 views | E15Hoop |
| Gazball on 10:54 - May 2 by daveB |
Beale and Warburton came into the same club and didn't play that way, even Holloway was more expansive than we have been under Ainsworth.
I think it's all very defeatist. Coventry, Millwall and Luton all in the playoffs, two of those were in league 2 a few years ago. Luton have a crap hole stadium and have managed it, Coventry didn't even had a stadium a few months ago.
Blackburn up there as well, Barnsley and Huddersfield made playoffs in recent seasons. no reason why we shouldn't be aiming to do that even if we are not successful and really no reason why we should be saying the only way to win is to shithouse.
There are team in this league and the one below spending less than us that don't play that way, I'm not sure why we need to accept that's the only way because it isn't.
I'm not delusional, I expect at bare minimum to be mid table and year on year I expect us to improve, thats not asking for champions league or even the premier league but I want more than watching players pretend to be hurt every week and cling onto a 1-0 win. Like i Say we had to do it the last 2 games and I have no problem with it but if thats the plan for next season as well it won't work
Next year will be hard but if we are supposed to go into it saying we are just happy to be here I'm not sure what the point is. |
As I said elsewhere, I don't understand why all the "football purists" are getting so aeraated over the football we've played in the last 5 games anyway?! I thought for most of the West Brom game, the Norwich game, the 2nd hald of the Burnley game and pretty much the whole of the Stoke game, we gave as good as we got.
I get it that everyone's fixated on the possession stats, but Stoke in particular played like a low-rent Swansea; loads of possession switched from side to side and played in front of us. I'm not sure how that would have been any differnt if we'd been playing so-called more expansive football.
When we did break, we broke quickly, and with swift incisive passing from midfield to the front - again, I'm obviously missing something, because I don't understand how that's any different from any system we've played under anybody else? Surely the fact we got more shots on target then previously from much less officially recorded possession actually just makes us more efficient as an attacking force? | | | |
| Gazball on 12:55 - May 2 with 2115 views | CamberleyR |
| Gazball on 10:59 - May 1 by BazzaInTheLoft |
There was a famous meme going round of a Wycombe v Oxford League Onematch where Wycombe were 23rd in the league for possession and Oxford 1st.
Lots of laughter and derision,
Wycombe not only won that match they also got promoted. It’s totally sustainable! |
That wasn't just any match, that WAS the playoff final itself. |  |
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| Gazball on 12:59 - May 2 with 2090 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Gazball on 11:35 - May 2 by daveB |
Coventry & Millwall |
Are we seriously saying Millwall don’t play industrial football?
Coventry is worse trouble than we are in regards to FFP and have a fragile situation in regards to income / expenditure to say the least. At least we own our second biggest income stream. [Post edited 2 May 2023 13:01]
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| Gazball on 13:12 - May 2 with 2024 views | Loyalitat |
| Gazball on 10:59 - May 1 by BazzaInTheLoft |
There was a famous meme going round of a Wycombe v Oxford League Onematch where Wycombe were 23rd in the league for possession and Oxford 1st.
Lots of laughter and derision,
Wycombe not only won that match they also got promoted. It’s totally sustainable! |
Sustainable in division one perhaps. Wycombe's efforts at championship level only amassed about 42 points with arguably the "right sorts" to perfect his style, in his team.
Next season, the sides coming up from division one, and down from the premier league, will mean that this league will be a lot harder to survive in, than this year. Ipswich, Plymouth and one of the five sides contesting the four play-off places, will all fancy their chances of staying in the championship.
Football at that level has moved on somewhat and it would appear that Ainsworth's brand is fast becoming the outlier in the division below, let alone the championship. [Post edited 2 May 2023 14:01]
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| Gazball on 13:18 - May 2 with 1988 views | terryb |
| Gazball on 12:59 - May 2 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Are we seriously saying Millwall don’t play industrial football?
Coventry is worse trouble than we are in regards to FFP and have a fragile situation in regards to income / expenditure to say the least. At least we own our second biggest income stream. [Post edited 2 May 2023 13:01]
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They didn't at Loftus Road this season. | | | |
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| Gazball on 13:35 - May 2 with 1901 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| Gazball on 11:41 - May 2 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Bournemouth was pre FFP and financially doped their side and Brentford was two years ago and took twenty years to develop. |
Brighton. Promoted in 2016-17 when we had *checks notes* parachute payments and stayed up by beating Forest in our penultimate game. [Post edited 2 May 2023 13:38]
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| Gazball on 13:43 - May 2 with 1871 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| Gazball on 11:41 - May 2 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Bournemouth was pre FFP and financially doped their side and Brentford was two years ago and took twenty years to develop. |
Benham took over Brentford in June 2012 when they were in League One. They were promoted to the Premier League nine years later.
In eight years Les has presided over one relegation and two near misses. Maybe next year then... | | | |
| Gazball on 13:54 - May 2 with 1849 views | swisscottage |
| Gazball on 12:59 - May 2 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Are we seriously saying Millwall don’t play industrial football?
Coventry is worse trouble than we are in regards to FFP and have a fragile situation in regards to income / expenditure to say the least. At least we own our second biggest income stream. [Post edited 2 May 2023 13:01]
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Coventry are like us. Best 11 can compete with anyone in the league, but lose one or two key players and they go on long losing runs.
Gyokeres 43 games this season, Hamer, 38 games this season.
Previous two season they had bad streaks when they had injury problems especially when the aforementioned were injured.
Luton the same.
People point to a handful of clubs to say look they can do it why cant we. Those handful of clubs are the exceptions that prove the rule. And in the case of Luton, Coventry and Millwall, people point to their best season in decades, when they've probably also had their best seasons in terms of injuries in decades.
[Post edited 2 May 2023 14:00]
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| Gazball on 13:59 - May 2 with 1826 views | daveB |
| Gazball on 12:59 - May 2 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Are we seriously saying Millwall don’t play industrial football?
Coventry is worse trouble than we are in regards to FFP and have a fragile situation in regards to income / expenditure to say the least. At least we own our second biggest income stream. [Post edited 2 May 2023 13:01]
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Well they haven't got the full shithouse and be happy to finish 4th bottom that is being suggested that we should all be happy with | | | |
| Gazball on 14:08 - May 2 with 1806 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Gazball on 13:59 - May 2 by daveB |
Well they haven't got the full shithouse and be happy to finish 4th bottom that is being suggested that we should all be happy with |
That absolutely isn't what i'm suggesting either, to be 100% clear. | | | |
| Gazball on 14:18 - May 2 with 1789 views | BerkoRanger |
| Gazball on 12:28 - May 2 by E15Hoop |
As I said elsewhere, I don't understand why all the "football purists" are getting so aeraated over the football we've played in the last 5 games anyway?! I thought for most of the West Brom game, the Norwich game, the 2nd hald of the Burnley game and pretty much the whole of the Stoke game, we gave as good as we got.
I get it that everyone's fixated on the possession stats, but Stoke in particular played like a low-rent Swansea; loads of possession switched from side to side and played in front of us. I'm not sure how that would have been any differnt if we'd been playing so-called more expansive football.
When we did break, we broke quickly, and with swift incisive passing from midfield to the front - again, I'm obviously missing something, because I don't understand how that's any different from any system we've played under anybody else? Surely the fact we got more shots on target then previously from much less officially recorded possession actually just makes us more efficient as an attacking force? |
Good post, E15. Unfortunately there was a group of supporters (some on this board) who seemed appalled at the thought of Gareth being appointed our Manager and are still trying to justify that view. Gareth knows what the QPR style is, because he played as part of a QPR team. Please guys - let's see who Gareth tries to bring in before we start pre-judging. | | | |
| Gazball on 14:25 - May 2 with 1752 views | daveB |
| Gazball on 12:28 - May 2 by E15Hoop |
As I said elsewhere, I don't understand why all the "football purists" are getting so aeraated over the football we've played in the last 5 games anyway?! I thought for most of the West Brom game, the Norwich game, the 2nd hald of the Burnley game and pretty much the whole of the Stoke game, we gave as good as we got.
I get it that everyone's fixated on the possession stats, but Stoke in particular played like a low-rent Swansea; loads of possession switched from side to side and played in front of us. I'm not sure how that would have been any differnt if we'd been playing so-called more expansive football.
When we did break, we broke quickly, and with swift incisive passing from midfield to the front - again, I'm obviously missing something, because I don't understand how that's any different from any system we've played under anybody else? Surely the fact we got more shots on target then previously from much less officially recorded possession actually just makes us more efficient as an attacking force? |
As i said I was more concerned with the football played before these recent games when the pressure wasn't really on and we could play any style we wanted and the one we chose was dreadful. The last few games it's been needs must with results more important than style.
I don't think anyone has said they want pure possession based football but there is a middle ground between knocking it aimlessly long and passing sideways for 90 minutes | | | |
| Gazball on 14:35 - May 2 with 1714 views | daveB |
| Gazball on 14:08 - May 2 by BazzaInTheLoft |
That absolutely isn't what i'm suggesting either, to be 100% clear. |
didn't you say earlier in this thread that we need to play industrial shithouse football to compete and should realise we can't compete?
I do get that this summer is going to be difficult and next season won't be easy but we're not the only club in this situation and shouldn't just shrugging our shoulders and giving up. You can put together a very competitive team and decent team in this division with the squad we currently have and some smart transfer moves this summer. We just need to get that right like other teams in the same boat as us manage to do. | | | |
| Gazball on 14:37 - May 2 with 1706 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Gazball on 14:08 - May 2 by BazzaInTheLoft |
That absolutely isn't what i'm suggesting either, to be 100% clear. |
Well in the interests of clarity: what exactly are you suggesting? |  |
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| Gazball on 14:50 - May 2 with 1668 views | dutch |
From the moment we parked a bus or two at Burnley, a bus which kept toppling over and holding its head to waste time, I was fine with that, in fact had been crying out for that when we were always one down within ten minutes and leaking three goals per game. It was absolutely necessary and actually rather well done. But, and it is a very axial but, that would not work for a whole season and nor would I want to watch it even if it did. Warnock's style was pretty pragmatic, but with Adel in the mix and Faurlin in the mixer. I hope GA can find an ace or two to mix it up, provide some entertainment and surprises, and I don't mean an Akinfenwa type. Direct, fast, uncompromising football is great, but you need some wild cards and wise heads in there to stop it being predictable and ultimately easily beatable. | | | |
| Gazball on 15:09 - May 2 with 1618 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Gazball on 14:37 - May 2 by PlanetHonneywood |
Well in the interests of clarity: what exactly are you suggesting? |
I’m suggesting that…
1) Fretting about style, tactics, and strategy at this stage is premature, unfair, and unreasonable.
2) Lots of assumptions about GA’s style are unwarranted.
3) Lots of conclusions about GA’s style are exaggerated.
4) We should adjust our expectations as a fan base to fit our FFP situation and overall income, attendance, and circumstances.
That doesn’t mean expect relegation, just be a bit more open minded about our place in this league and don’t treat every defeat as a disaster.
5) A more direct / low possession / high shithouse style is legitimate and proven successful for plenty of teams in our range, assuming it’s applied practically.
6) We give the fcking bloke a chance longer than 4 months without a transfer window and a squad full of everyone else’s failures. [Post edited 2 May 2023 23:13]
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| Gazball on 15:18 - May 2 with 1604 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Gazball on 14:35 - May 2 by daveB |
didn't you say earlier in this thread that we need to play industrial shithouse football to compete and should realise we can't compete?
I do get that this summer is going to be difficult and next season won't be easy but we're not the only club in this situation and shouldn't just shrugging our shoulders and giving up. You can put together a very competitive team and decent team in this division with the squad we currently have and some smart transfer moves this summer. We just need to get that right like other teams in the same boat as us manage to do. |
No I didn’t say that.
No one has given up either, although it feels like people have cemented their views on GA very early. | | | |
| Gazball on 15:26 - May 2 with 1594 views | QPR_John |
| Gazball on 10:04 - May 1 by denhamhoop2 |
Would've thought Beale and his fine start to the season has played at least as much a part in our staying up 11 Points from 12 games for GazBall over a season sees you go down quite often |
That’s just statistics. Ainsworth needed time to assess the situation see what’s wrong and try to find a way to correct it. Did you really expect the team to start getting the necessary points from day one of Ainsworth's appointment. Blind stats shows us getting 8 points from the last 5 games a respectful 73 points over a season | | | |
| Gazball on 15:30 - May 2 with 1583 views | Antti_Heinola |
1) Fretting about style, tactics, and strategy at this stage is premature, unfair, and unreasonable.
- Not really. This is absolutely the time to be fretting (or, better: discussing). It's certainly not unreasonable to discuss or fret about it, when it's the only thing we've seen so far. Whether that fret is worth fretting over, only time will tell. But none of it is premature.
2) Lots of assumptions about GA’s style are unwarranted.
Not sure they're assumptions. It's based on what GA has delivered as a manager in his career so far.
3) Lots of conclusions about GA’s style are exaggerated.
Possibly, by some.
4) We should adjust our expectations as a fan base to fit our FFP situation and overall income, attendance, and circumstances.
That doesn’t mean expect relegation, just be a bit more open minded about our place in this league and don’t treat every defeat as a disaster.
I do agree with this. We had posters in the past who wanted Warbs gone because they didn't believe he could deliver promotion, which is a very high bar.
5) A more direct / low possession / high shithouse style is legitimate and proven successful for plenty of teams in our range.
Not sure that's really true and a very generous use of the word 'successful'.
6) We give the fcking bloke a chance longer than 4 months without a transfer window and a squad full of everyone else’s failures.
Yep, deserves a chance, and he'll get it. Discussing it is what a forum is for though. |  |
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| Gazball on 15:32 - May 2 with 1582 views | daveB |
| Gazball on 15:18 - May 2 by BazzaInTheLoft |
No I didn’t say that.
No one has given up either, although it feels like people have cemented their views on GA very early. |
I must have miss understood as it certainly came across like that
I do think it's safe to have cemented views on Ainsworths playing style after 10 years at Wycombe and what we've seen in his few months here plus what he's said about how he wants the team to play. It's obvious how he wants to play. he's not going to change anytime soon. It may well work and i hope it does but I have serious doubts about it. | | | |
| Gazball on 15:48 - May 2 with 1522 views | EastR |
Its all quite simple really.
Ask yourself if you’ll be happy to see Josh Scowen in our midfield next season, or not. | |
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| Gazball on 15:53 - May 2 with 1504 views | QPR_John |
| Gazball on 09:59 - May 2 by daveB |
I don't have an issue about how we played in the last 2 games, it was needs must and we got the results partly due to what we did and partly due to Stoke being abysmal. I don't think I've ever been to an away game where I felt so confident of a win after we scored, they could still be playing now and wouldn't have scored.
My concern with the style of football was the 10 games before these 2 when we had no real pattern of play and were just lumping it forward, that's the big worry for me going forward. All this talk of reset your expectations and wanting to sign experienced players, I just don't know what we're trying to do anymore.
We've won 3 games under Ainsworth and in all 3 spent more time on the floor pretending to be injured than passing the ball to each other. It worked so great well done everyone and I'm delighted we have stayed up but if that's what we are going to need to do to win games of football going forward count me out and I don't think it will work. |
“ My concern with the style of football was the 10 games before these 2 when we had no real pattern of play and were just lumping it forward, that's the big worry for me going forward.”
But was it not the style of football before Ainsworth that got us in the position we were. It had to change. I know how well we started the season with these players but that way of playing requires confidence along with talent. Confidence was clearly shot so a different approach was required and the result was, however it was achieved, we are in the Championship next season. Ainsworth deserves a chance. | | | |
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