| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 16:14 - Feb 6 with 15514 views | NotLoyal |
Sheffield United: Wes Foderingham, Sander Berge, Billy Sharp (captain), John Egan, Max Lowe, Anel Ahmedhodzic, Oliver Norwood, Jack Robinson, Jayden Bogle, James McAtee, Iliman Ndiaye.
Substitutes: Adam Davies, John Fleck, Chris Basham, Oli McBurnie, Ismaila Coulibaly, Ben Osborn, Ciaran Clark.
Swansea City: Andy Fisher; Kyle Naughton, Ben Cabango, Nathan Wood, Ryan Manning; Jay Fulton, Matt Grimes (captain), Olivier Ntcham, Ollie Cooper, Liam Cullen, Joel Piroe.
Substitutes: Lewis Webb, Harry Darling, Joe Allen, Luke Cundle, Morgan Whittaker, Liam Walsh, Matty Sorinola.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  |
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| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 09:46 - Feb 12 with 1583 views | STID2017 |
| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 09:37 - Feb 12 by Dr_Parnassus |
“is a shame because with a tight defence, we would be in the top six at this point. “
If you have a solid defence then you tend to sacrifice the attacking side of things. There is no way we would score the amount we do if we made the chances necessary to tighten up the defence. |
As was posted a little earlier, Cooper did it, and as you have repeatedly stated a competent manager would have this squad zooming up the league.
Do if Martin made the necessary changes it would not work, yet if a new manager made them it would work ?
Or are you saying that Martin has to do something differently to get us on the upwards track? |  |
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| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 09:53 - Feb 12 with 1541 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 09:46 - Feb 12 by STID2017 |
As was posted a little earlier, Cooper did it, and as you have repeatedly stated a competent manager would have this squad zooming up the league.
Do if Martin made the necessary changes it would not work, yet if a new manager made them it would work ?
Or are you saying that Martin has to do something differently to get us on the upwards track? |
Cooper did what?
We were a defensive side under Cooper, we didn’t combine heaps of scoring with a mean defence. If we did we would be in the Premier League.
If Martin made the necessary changes to turn into a defensive unit then you can’t just look at the league and take a heap of conceded goals off, it doesn’t work like that.
The changes a competent manager would made with the personnel that Martin has assembled is to simply add width, stop the needless possession, stop the suicide passing in our own box, attack at pace and utilise a longer ball when needed.
If Martin does that, then great. Unlikely though isn’t it, 84 games in. |  |
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| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 11:48 - Feb 12 with 1444 views | Luther27 |
| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 00:04 - Feb 12 by max936 |
"So…who’s at fault? The players, the manager or the owners?",
We are were we are, we can't afford to buy the quality needed and we can't afford a manager who can turn a pigs ear into a silk purse, Martinez and Rogers did, but Martin is a work in progress, who is stalling a tad at the minute, he's got to work that out. |
I’m not a fan of his Max. He’s forced himself into a corner now that he can’t get out of. After saying that I’m not a fan of the duplicitous owners either. A pair of snake oil salesmen in my eyes. Unfortunately I can’t see anyone beating a path to our door to purchase the club. |  |
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| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 12:22 - Feb 12 with 1386 views | max936 |
| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 11:48 - Feb 12 by Luther27 |
I’m not a fan of his Max. He’s forced himself into a corner now that he can’t get out of. After saying that I’m not a fan of the duplicitous owners either. A pair of snake oil salesmen in my eyes. Unfortunately I can’t see anyone beating a path to our door to purchase the club. |
I agree, seems like we're stuck with both for sometime yet, can see changes happening in summer though, with Martin moving on, one with or another, but I can't see any changes in ownership happening. |  |
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| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 12:29 - Feb 12 with 1380 views | krunchykarrot |
Just watched the highlights, first goal down to Manning schoolboy stuff. Second goal Manning slipped but we should have cleared. And the third goal i will abstain as KN has been a good pro for us. The issue i have is that week in week out we keep making basic errors, this is not down to the coach but the players at least 75% of the time.
EG the S U winger for the first goal must have been amazed he didnt get taken out , the second one fair enough he slipped but still. And as for the third ill take the 5th. So my point is how do you blame the manager for what in my opinion was schoolboy player errors for 2 goals. |  | | |
| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 12:57 - Feb 12 with 1357 views | BryanSwan |
| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 09:46 - Feb 12 by STID2017 |
As was posted a little earlier, Cooper did it, and as you have repeatedly stated a competent manager would have this squad zooming up the league.
Do if Martin made the necessary changes it would not work, yet if a new manager made them it would work ?
Or are you saying that Martin has to do something differently to get us on the upwards track? |
Cooper did make us a solid prospect defensively, but offensively we were often lacking and had to rely on fortune. Well that and the prowess of Ayew to win games where we hadn't a sniff.
It's a fine balance between pragmatism and attacking football, at them moment we aren't really playing well at either. | |
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| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 13:01 - Feb 12 with 1351 views | Dr_Winston |
Cooper's team could have been more fun to watch if he wasn't so allergic to pace and flair. His inability to get a tune out of Celina despite his performances under Potter is just one example. He was all about shape. Effective to a degree, but dull as hell. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 13:16 - Feb 12 with 1323 views | max936 |
| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 13:01 - Feb 12 by Dr_Winston |
Cooper's team could have been more fun to watch if he wasn't so allergic to pace and flair. His inability to get a tune out of Celina despite his performances under Potter is just one example. He was all about shape. Effective to a degree, but dull as hell. |
Reason must have been because he didn't feel confident in the players with pace that he had, because he's using the players with pace at Forest. | |
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| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 13:36 - Feb 12 with 1292 views | Dr_Winston |
| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 13:16 - Feb 12 by max936 |
Reason must have been because he didn't feel confident in the players with pace that he had, because he's using the players with pace at Forest. |
Maybe he's learned. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 20:50 - Feb 12 with 1114 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 13:16 - Feb 12 by max936 |
Reason must have been because he didn't feel confident in the players with pace that he had, because he's using the players with pace at Forest. |
That’s it, a good manager does the best with the tools at his disposal.
Not sure where the “didn’t use players with pace” thing comes from. What pace players are we talking about that he didn’t play?
Don’t think any come to mind. | |
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| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 20:54 - Feb 12 with 1118 views | STID2017 |
| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 13:16 - Feb 12 by max936 |
Reason must have been because he didn't feel confident in the players with pace that he had, because he's using the players with pace at Forest. |
Different set of players completely.at Forest
Plus an inordinate amount of money to spend unlike at Swansea [Post edited 12 Feb 2023 21:07]
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| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 21:05 - Feb 12 with 1104 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 20:54 - Feb 12 by STID2017 |
Different set of players completely.at Forest
Plus an inordinate amount of money to spend unlike at Swansea [Post edited 12 Feb 2023 21:07]
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He didn’t have much to spend at all £2m over 2 seasons.
One of the seasons it was £400k.
Also it was a very similar crop of players. Benda, Naughton, Cabango, Manning, Grimes and Fulton as the core.
We have added Joel Piroe, Joe Allen, Olivier Ntcham, Harry Darling to that and got the benefit of the emergence of Oli Cooper.
I wouldn’t swap squads for the one we have now that’s for sure. | |
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| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 22:12 - Feb 12 with 1056 views | swancity |
| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 21:05 - Feb 12 by Dr_Parnassus |
He didn’t have much to spend at all £2m over 2 seasons.
One of the seasons it was £400k.
Also it was a very similar crop of players. Benda, Naughton, Cabango, Manning, Grimes and Fulton as the core.
We have added Joel Piroe, Joe Allen, Olivier Ntcham, Harry Darling to that and got the benefit of the emergence of Oli Cooper.
I wouldn’t swap squads for the one we have now that’s for sure. |
The previous squad was far superior and Steve Cooper knew how to maximise their potential. Which he did when we reached the play offs. Brentford to be fair we’re much better than us.
Are you trying to say that the likes of Marc Guehi, Joe Rodon, Andrew Ayew, Rhian Brewster, Connor Roberts, Connor Gallagher, Freddy Woodman and Bersant Celina aren’t as good as our current players. 😂 | |
| Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day |
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| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 22:20 - Feb 12 with 1045 views | Fireboy2 |
| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 22:12 - Feb 12 by swancity |
The previous squad was far superior and Steve Cooper knew how to maximise their potential. Which he did when we reached the play offs. Brentford to be fair we’re much better than us.
Are you trying to say that the likes of Marc Guehi, Joe Rodon, Andrew Ayew, Rhian Brewster, Connor Roberts, Connor Gallagher, Freddy Woodman and Bersant Celina aren’t as good as our current players. 😂 |
'Maximise our potential' 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Cooper shat his pants after Xmas when were second, if he hadn't we would have gone up automatically.
The play off final was absolutely embarrassing. |  | | |
| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 22:30 - Feb 12 with 1019 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 22:20 - Feb 12 by Fireboy2 |
'Maximise our potential' 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Cooper shat his pants after Xmas when were second, if he hadn't we would have gone up automatically.
The play off final was absolutely embarrassing. |
Another myth.
The first half of the season and second half of the season was barely different.
43 points earned in the first 23 games
37 points earned in the second 23 games
Had we have kept up that crazy form we saw in the first half of the season right the way to the end, we would have picked up another 6 points.
Meaning we wouldn’t move from where we actually did finish, which was 7 points behind 3rd Brentford and 11 behind 2nd place Watford.
So 4th would have been the finish either way. | |
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| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 22:48 - Feb 12 with 1011 views | STID2017 |
| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 22:12 - Feb 12 by swancity |
The previous squad was far superior and Steve Cooper knew how to maximise their potential. Which he did when we reached the play offs. Brentford to be fair we’re much better than us.
Are you trying to say that the likes of Marc Guehi, Joe Rodon, Andrew Ayew, Rhian Brewster, Connor Roberts, Connor Gallagher, Freddy Woodman and Bersant Celina aren’t as good as our current players. 😂 |
Imagine being able to build a team around all those players.
What a team that would be with an attack minded manager. | |
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| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 22:55 - Feb 12 with 1006 views | STID2017 |
| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 22:20 - Feb 12 by Fireboy2 |
'Maximise our potential' 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Cooper shat his pants after Xmas when were second, if he hadn't we would have gone up automatically.
The play off final was absolutely embarrassing. |
It was and yet some insist how lucky we were to have him.
He has somehow managed to well at Forest and not capitulate in the Play Off Final ( helps when you are not dreaming of Crystal Palace mind ) and thanks to £160 million and a couple of players he was lucky to have in the Championship, he is at the dizzy heights of 14th in the Premiership, a whole 6 points above Everton in 18th.
Some eulogise about him so much you would swear he was still our manager or at least had left after getting us promoted | |
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| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 22:58 - Feb 12 with 999 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 22:48 - Feb 12 by STID2017 |
Imagine being able to build a team around all those players.
What a team that would be with an attack minded manager. |
Celina, Roberts, Brewster and Woodman are all championship players now, some of which are bench players.
Rodon, Guehi, Brewster and Gallagher (3 of which were on loan) were all extremely young and inexperienced, the latter pair only being here a matter of months.
Ayew has essentially been exchanged for Piroe, and I wouldn’t swap them back. | |
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| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 23:19 - Feb 12 with 983 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 22:55 - Feb 12 by STID2017 |
It was and yet some insist how lucky we were to have him.
He has somehow managed to well at Forest and not capitulate in the Play Off Final ( helps when you are not dreaming of Crystal Palace mind ) and thanks to £160 million and a couple of players he was lucky to have in the Championship, he is at the dizzy heights of 14th in the Premiership, a whole 6 points above Everton in 18th.
Some eulogise about him so much you would swear he was still our manager or at least had left after getting us promoted |
I think it’s more to do with those who slate everything he does.
Pretending getting to the playoffs back to back wasn’t an excellent achievement, pretending taking Forest from bottom to the Premier League in less than a single season wasn’t remarkable, pretending that guiding such a new squad to what appears to be looking like a safe mid table trajectory in the Premier League isn’t great.
The reason for that of course is because if it’s admitted that he was behind such over performance in his tenure here, it would reveal how awful Martin has done since arriving.
Which of course is against the religion. | |
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| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 00:10 - Feb 13 with 959 views | BryanSwan |
| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 22:12 - Feb 12 by swancity |
The previous squad was far superior and Steve Cooper knew how to maximise their potential. Which he did when we reached the play offs. Brentford to be fair we’re much better than us.
Are you trying to say that the likes of Marc Guehi, Joe Rodon, Andrew Ayew, Rhian Brewster, Connor Roberts, Connor Gallagher, Freddy Woodman and Bersant Celina aren’t as good as our current players. 😂 |
You're even leaving out Van Der Hoorn an Mulder from the 1st playoff tilt.
Do any of the players who have come in make either playoff squad? Maybe only Piroe. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 01:44 - Feb 13 with 942 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 00:10 - Feb 13 by BryanSwan |
You're even leaving out Van Der Hoorn an Mulder from the 1st playoff tilt.
Do any of the players who have come in make either playoff squad? Maybe only Piroe. |
Half this side IS the play off side to which you refer.
Cabango, Naughton, Fulton, Grimes, Cullen and Manning all played.
Most of the ones that were different, are not improvements on the players we have today.
- Woodman (now in championship) - Benda is an upgrade
- Bidwell (now in championship) - Oli Cooper is an upgrade
- Hourihane (now in League 1) - Ntcham is an upgrade
- Dhanda (now plays for Ross County) - Allen is an upgrade
- Ayew (now plays for Forest) - Piroe is an upgrade
- Lowe (now in championship) - Obafemi is/was an upgrade
- Roberts (now in championship) - he is better than Lati
- Guehi - loan - (now plays for Palace) - he is better than Wood
So of the 8 players we have different, I’d only swap 2 of them (keep 6 upgrades), and one wasn’t even our player. The rest we have upgraded. [Post edited 13 Feb 2023 2:11]
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| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 05:41 - Feb 13 with 926 views | vetchonian |
| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 12:29 - Feb 12 by krunchykarrot |
Just watched the highlights, first goal down to Manning schoolboy stuff. Second goal Manning slipped but we should have cleared. And the third goal i will abstain as KN has been a good pro for us. The issue i have is that week in week out we keep making basic errors, this is not down to the coach but the players at least 75% of the time.
EG the S U winger for the first goal must have been amazed he didnt get taken out , the second one fair enough he slipped but still. And as for the third ill take the 5th. So my point is how do you blame the manager for what in my opinion was schoolboy player errors for 2 goals. |
Yes the players can take some blame but maybe it is because Martin has coached the basic instincts out of them
I refer to the Readimg game at home last season KN faced with a simple kick into touch decided to back heel the ball into a blind spot behind him leading to an interception and a Readimg goal. In that circumstance most would have kicked it out then allowing us to reset but I'm sure the Martin mantra if keeping possession was drummed into him and so he did what he did.
so yes players are making errors but is it die to the coaching remember what happened after the players "took control" at Bristol City last season to grind out a win Martin was unhappy they had played as they did | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 06:22 - Feb 13 with 911 views | STID2017 |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 01:44 - Feb 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
Half this side IS the play off side to which you refer.
Cabango, Naughton, Fulton, Grimes, Cullen and Manning all played.
Most of the ones that were different, are not improvements on the players we have today.
- Woodman (now in championship) - Benda is an upgrade
- Bidwell (now in championship) - Oli Cooper is an upgrade
- Hourihane (now in League 1) - Ntcham is an upgrade
- Dhanda (now plays for Ross County) - Allen is an upgrade
- Ayew (now plays for Forest) - Piroe is an upgrade
- Lowe (now in championship) - Obafemi is/was an upgrade
- Roberts (now in championship) - he is better than Lati
- Guehi - loan - (now plays for Palace) - he is better than Wood
So of the 8 players we have different, I’d only swap 2 of them (keep 6 upgrades), and one wasn’t even our player. The rest we have upgraded. [Post edited 13 Feb 2023 2:11]
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Benda is in no way better than Woodman
Piroe is in no way better than Andre Ayew,who has played at the top level and in the World Cup
Bidwell was a left back and excellent at it - Oli Cooper is not a direct replacement for him
Obafemi carries so much baggage with him that, in spite of his goals, we had to get shot.
Naughton is now a bit player and past his best.
I know you want to maintain the rhetoric that Cooper was a brilliant manager for us while Martin is a demon, but you have to be realistic in acknowledging that Cooper's squad was much better than the current one. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 07:23 - Feb 13 with 892 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 06:22 - Feb 13 by STID2017 |
Benda is in no way better than Woodman
Piroe is in no way better than Andre Ayew,who has played at the top level and in the World Cup
Bidwell was a left back and excellent at it - Oli Cooper is not a direct replacement for him
Obafemi carries so much baggage with him that, in spite of his goals, we had to get shot.
Naughton is now a bit player and past his best.
I know you want to maintain the rhetoric that Cooper was a brilliant manager for us while Martin is a demon, but you have to be realistic in acknowledging that Cooper's squad was much better than the current one. |
Unfortunately the facts don’t back that up.
If we look at goal contributions, both goals and assists over every single minute they have played at this level:
Piroe - 1 goal contribution every 143 mins
Ayew - 1 goal contribution every 178 mins
Piroe is much the better striker, hence why he’s worth 300% more than what Ayew is.
……………..
Bidwell was not a left back, he played wing back and also pushed forward into left wing like he did in the play offs. If we had that team instead then Martin would have to use him in the Oli Cooper role.
Would anyone swap Oli Cooper for Bidwell? Of course not.
……………..
Woodman for Benda is a matter of opinion. They both have very similar stats at this level, especially accounting for the difference in defences. Put Woodman in this side and I don’t believe we concede less goals, especially under Martin. Distribution has to be of key importance so how is Woodman an improvement given his distribution issues?
………………
Whether you felt we had to sell Obafemi or not is irrelevant, he’s been here for 18 months and he’s an upgrade on Lowe.
It’s ludicrous to say that play off team was better than the one we have now. And I’ve gone through man for man and shown that.
I know you like to pretend Martin is struggling with awful players and Cooper was in the lap of luxury.
However the reality suggests otherwise. [Post edited 13 Feb 2023 7:34]
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 07:33 - Feb 13 with 887 views | BryanSwan |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 01:44 - Feb 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
Half this side IS the play off side to which you refer.
Cabango, Naughton, Fulton, Grimes, Cullen and Manning all played.
Most of the ones that were different, are not improvements on the players we have today.
- Woodman (now in championship) - Benda is an upgrade
- Bidwell (now in championship) - Oli Cooper is an upgrade
- Hourihane (now in League 1) - Ntcham is an upgrade
- Dhanda (now plays for Ross County) - Allen is an upgrade
- Ayew (now plays for Forest) - Piroe is an upgrade
- Lowe (now in championship) - Obafemi is/was an upgrade
- Roberts (now in championship) - he is better than Lati
- Guehi - loan - (now plays for Palace) - he is better than Wood
So of the 8 players we have different, I’d only swap 2 of them (keep 6 upgrades), and one wasn’t even our player. The rest we have upgraded. [Post edited 13 Feb 2023 2:11]
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The issue you have is you are conparing players two or three years later if you consider the first playoff semi season.
Go look up the side that lost in the semi final, do you really believe that the current XI are better than that one?
To me i would say that only Allen and Piroe would make that XI | |
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