| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 00:43 - Apr 2 with 2048 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 17:38 - Apr 1 by Jack_Meoff |
This is what I'm not getting. People so eager to swallow the official narrative despite the UK government proving over and over again to be lying, duplicitous scumbags. You can add Syria and Libya to that list, and that's just during this century.
The motive is questionable - this is a person who was amnestied by Russia in 2010. As are the means. Why use this nerve agent? It makes no sense. And what, is it some kind of slow release agent that starts working hours after exposure - after you've been shopping and had a nice meal? Surely if the Russian state wanted this person dead (and again, why now?), they wouldn't have undergone this Laurel and Hardy method. Far, far easier ways. The world cup is also a few short months away, why potentially damage such a prestigious event? Makes no sense again.
It could turn out to be Russia. But to expect people to unquestionably believe their story. Sorry, not for me. Not given their track record. |
Innit. They pardoned the bloke.
Russian government uses most lethal substance known to man to kill a man they could have killed years ago with little or no fuss.
And risking starting WW3 in the process? Only Boris Johnson or Trump could be that idiotic surely. Putin is far too measured for this. |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 01:30 - Apr 2 with 2020 views | longlostjack |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 00:37 - Apr 2 by Brynmill_Jack |
Well Mr Skripal must have farted at his daughter on that bench and then the first copper on the scene , although he couldn't have broken wind in the pub or restaurant or wherever else they had been. It's the only way to explain why just THREE PEOPLE have been affected. |
Agree. I think they're playing down the risk to the general public in Salisbury. Now your other post - why choose such a method? I wouldn't underestimate Putin. The message it sends out is the important thing. Don't feck with Russia and if you fancy testifying against Trump think again. Second benefit - let's see how united the West is. Putin has been financing Brexit proponents, the right wing AfD in Germany, Marie le Pen's lot in France and the fascist Hungarian Government. Time to take the blinkers off BJ. |  |
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| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 02:54 - Apr 2 with 2004 views | DJack |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 23:02 - Apr 1 by trampie |
No I never said that ? |
Apologies. My multitasking skills are rubbish. I can't even post correctly whilst making a simple cup of tea.  |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 02:57 - Apr 2 with 2004 views | DJack |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 00:37 - Apr 2 by Brynmill_Jack |
Well Mr Skripal must have farted at his daughter on that bench and then the first copper on the scene , although he couldn't have broken wind in the pub or restaurant or wherever else they had been. It's the only way to explain why just THREE PEOPLE have been affected. |
Based upon what facts or knowledge that you have...
and/or what other scenarios have you seriously considered and written off? | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 10:36 - Apr 2 with 1931 views | sherpajacob |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 22:49 - Apr 1 by DJack |
You said "The onus is on the Maybot to prove the accusations made. Thats it. "
She has obviously proved it to her party, the opposition and to many other nations governments. Are you suggesting that our government give detail on national security matters to the public? |
At the Moment it's the word of the British government against the word of the Russian government.
Other western nations naturally will believe the British side, based on a long built up history of trust.
However, many UK citizens realise this is Theresa Mays government and therefore any statements made must be treated with healthy scepticism and questioned thoroughly to see if the facts stand up. Often when subjected to scrutiny her story changes.
Whatever evidence is available must be presented to an independent body or court for scrutiny, it doesn't have to be made public, but it does need to be verified independently.
Until the UK government does this, questions will continue to be asked about their version of events |  |
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| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 11:35 - Apr 2 with 1892 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 02:57 - Apr 2 by DJack |
Based upon what facts or knowledge that you have...
and/or what other scenarios have you seriously considered and written off? |
I'm purely basing my rationale upon the assumption that no leader of any country would use a substance so toxic that if administered even slightly erroneously could lead to the deaths of hundreds of people in another sovereign state.
On top of this the target is a highly unlikely one for the Russian state to be bothered about killing anyway (he had served his time and been spy swapped).
And the lethal weapon now turns out to be not so lethal after all?
What scenarios are you ruling out then? | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 13:13 - Apr 2 with 1856 views | DJack |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 10:36 - Apr 2 by sherpajacob |
At the Moment it's the word of the British government against the word of the Russian government.
Other western nations naturally will believe the British side, based on a long built up history of trust.
However, many UK citizens realise this is Theresa Mays government and therefore any statements made must be treated with healthy scepticism and questioned thoroughly to see if the facts stand up. Often when subjected to scrutiny her story changes.
Whatever evidence is available must be presented to an independent body or court for scrutiny, it doesn't have to be made public, but it does need to be verified independently.
Until the UK government does this, questions will continue to be asked about their version of events |
Agreed but there is the issue of the sensitive nature of source of knowledge. This in some instances will no longer be an issue after a period of time BUT not quick enough for those baying for answers from the government | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 13:16 - Apr 2 with 1852 views | Highjack |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 11:35 - Apr 2 by Brynmill_Jack |
I'm purely basing my rationale upon the assumption that no leader of any country would use a substance so toxic that if administered even slightly erroneously could lead to the deaths of hundreds of people in another sovereign state.
On top of this the target is a highly unlikely one for the Russian state to be bothered about killing anyway (he had served his time and been spy swapped).
And the lethal weapon now turns out to be not so lethal after all?
What scenarios are you ruling out then? |
Well Kim jong used a similar nerve agent in a packed airport to kill his brother. |  |
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| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 13:22 - Apr 2 with 1849 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 11:35 - Apr 2 by Brynmill_Jack |
I'm purely basing my rationale upon the assumption that no leader of any country would use a substance so toxic that if administered even slightly erroneously could lead to the deaths of hundreds of people in another sovereign state.
On top of this the target is a highly unlikely one for the Russian state to be bothered about killing anyway (he had served his time and been spy swapped).
And the lethal weapon now turns out to be not so lethal after all?
What scenarios are you ruling out then? |
The target was us (the West), not the bloke.
And most of the speculation you are questionning is coming from the press not the government.
I do love your assessment of Putin being some sort of measured politician though. Genuinely hilarious given his past antics. [Post edited 2 Apr 2018 13:23]
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| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 13:35 - Apr 2 with 1834 views | DJack |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 11:35 - Apr 2 by Brynmill_Jack |
I'm purely basing my rationale upon the assumption that no leader of any country would use a substance so toxic that if administered even slightly erroneously could lead to the deaths of hundreds of people in another sovereign state.
On top of this the target is a highly unlikely one for the Russian state to be bothered about killing anyway (he had served his time and been spy swapped).
And the lethal weapon now turns out to be not so lethal after all?
What scenarios are you ruling out then? |
"I'm purely basing my rationale upon the assumption that no leader of any country would use a substance so toxic that if administered even slightly erroneously could lead to the deaths of hundreds of people in another sovereign state."
The facilities required to make this substance indicate state level. ergo some leader HAS authorised it's use. If you wish to go down the organised crime gang route then I'll state once again the facilities required aren't common or garden and the country's security services would become aware of such an audacious undertaking.
"On top of this the target is a highly unlikely one for the Russian state to be bothered about killing anyway (he had served his time and been spy swapped)."
Go on, tell me how you know that those in power now think that way.
"And the lethal weapon now turns out to be not so lethal after all?" Really, so you've been given details of the toxicity level and dosage administered. Best get you of to support our Intelligence services with all the things that you know.
"What scenarios are you ruling out then?" Russian gangsters, rogue lone (ex)Russian agent, Uk govt, US govt, Israel. The most likely scenario is Russia, that does not make it true but I can see no other CREDIBLE alternative.
One other point -
I was a little amazed with your fatuous "farting" comment earlier in the thread even more so as I've pointed out dosage and vector is a major factor - I guess you don't like facts. | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 13:44 - Apr 2 with 1828 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 13:22 - Apr 2 by londonlisa2001 |
The target was us (the West), not the bloke.
And most of the speculation you are questionning is coming from the press not the government.
I do love your assessment of Putin being some sort of measured politician though. Genuinely hilarious given his past antics. [Post edited 2 Apr 2018 13:23]
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So Lisa - why ?
Why would Putin do it now ?
Whats the point ?
Why these people ?
World cup in just weeks and days ?
Putin is winning anyway with that idiot Trump installed in the White House, so ..?
No.
More likely to be somebody else trying to blame Putin.
Why no cctv ? No arrests ? No evidence verified ?
The uk govt position is based simply on calling on the faith of the great unwashed. Its bollox. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 13:54 - Apr 2 with 1815 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 23:38 - Apr 1 by Kilkennyjack |
I said it.
Maybot cant just go around making very serious accusations, and then hide behind ‘national security’ if questions are asked.
I dont need the details.
I just need another trusted party to confirm that the UK govt position is indeed based in fact. Like some International body, or other ?
Thats important assurance when ‘the russians doing it’ makes no logic/sense at all. World Cup days away and Putin chooses a method that leads directly back to him. I think not. And its an amateur job as the 2 targets survived. Putin is a professional. It simply does not add up. |
Evidence would have been provided to the privy council of which Corbyn is member.
If there was no evidence, he'd have been shouting that fact from the rooftops.
I'm sure all those other nations fully agreed it was a wheeze to stitch up Putin for the "mad lolz" as the cool kids would say.
The twitter role account "Rachael_Swindon" perpetuates whatever mad conspiracy theory the guy running it comes up because that's what that account does. Preston missed a penalty vs Derby - "Did they miss? Was it really a fairly taken penalty? Maybe the Tories don't want a Northern firmly working class side without plastic fans in the Premiership?". That's the level of political discourse from that discreditted account. | | | |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 13:58 - Apr 2 with 1813 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 13:44 - Apr 2 by Kilkennyjack |
So Lisa - why ?
Why would Putin do it now ?
Whats the point ?
Why these people ?
World cup in just weeks and days ?
Putin is winning anyway with that idiot Trump installed in the White House, so ..?
No.
More likely to be somebody else trying to blame Putin.
Why no cctv ? No arrests ? No evidence verified ?
The uk govt position is based simply on calling on the faith of the great unwashed. Its bollox. |
As I've said before, Brexit wobbles here and potentially people starting to testify in the US.
Throwing uncertainty into the pot to test the strength of NATO and the EU - with Trump being more lukewarm to NATO than any previous president and there being obvious reasons for our EU allies to distance themselves from us, what better time.
The World Cup nonsense just gives him cover as you have just shown.
As for the other stuff - cctv? Yeah, that's helpful when you know what you're looking for, but even then, there isn't cctv on a residential street in Salisbury (we don't even have it here in relatively central London). No evidence? There has been enough that 25 countries are satisfied.
The Russian misinformation being pumped out is based simply on calling on the mistrust of the population against this government. It's bollox. | | | |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 14:02 - Apr 2 with 1810 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 13:54 - Apr 2 by bluey_the_blue |
Evidence would have been provided to the privy council of which Corbyn is member.
If there was no evidence, he'd have been shouting that fact from the rooftops.
I'm sure all those other nations fully agreed it was a wheeze to stitch up Putin for the "mad lolz" as the cool kids would say.
The twitter role account "Rachael_Swindon" perpetuates whatever mad conspiracy theory the guy running it comes up because that's what that account does. Preston missed a penalty vs Derby - "Did they miss? Was it really a fairly taken penalty? Maybe the Tories don't want a Northern firmly working class side without plastic fans in the Premiership?". That's the level of political discourse from that discreditted account. |
In the first point, it's worth noting that Corbyn's initial reaction was the same as a few on here.
A day or so later, he (or McDonnell actually), said they supported the government's position.
The evidence was quite obviously presented to them in the interim. | | | |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 14:05 - Apr 2 with 1808 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 13:58 - Apr 2 by londonlisa2001 |
As I've said before, Brexit wobbles here and potentially people starting to testify in the US.
Throwing uncertainty into the pot to test the strength of NATO and the EU - with Trump being more lukewarm to NATO than any previous president and there being obvious reasons for our EU allies to distance themselves from us, what better time.
The World Cup nonsense just gives him cover as you have just shown.
As for the other stuff - cctv? Yeah, that's helpful when you know what you're looking for, but even then, there isn't cctv on a residential street in Salisbury (we don't even have it here in relatively central London). No evidence? There has been enough that 25 countries are satisfied.
The Russian misinformation being pumped out is based simply on calling on the mistrust of the population against this government. It's bollox. |
Maybe he's right tho - maybe it's the unsheeple like him who can clearly see through the British propaganda war to deflect from Brexit. Great people able to conveniently view things the way Putin wants them to. Litvinenko just committed suicide with an umbrella, after all.
Threats against exiles are clearly just cultural and linguistic misunderstandings; clearly just meant as friendly advice that the evil Brits could misconstrue anything said.
Actually what about this for a conspiracy theory.
Theresa May ( Tory ) knows that Russians will be looking to take out England's top boys at the WC. With Brexit, the sight of so many battered and bloody English would fundamentally weaken our negotiations with EU as we can't stand alone or something - so thus the "evil Tories" have engineered a situation to explain the beatings that will be handed out by the god fearing Ruskies... | | | |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 14:16 - Apr 2 with 1799 views | DJack |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 13:54 - Apr 2 by bluey_the_blue |
Evidence would have been provided to the privy council of which Corbyn is member.
If there was no evidence, he'd have been shouting that fact from the rooftops.
I'm sure all those other nations fully agreed it was a wheeze to stitch up Putin for the "mad lolz" as the cool kids would say.
The twitter role account "Rachael_Swindon" perpetuates whatever mad conspiracy theory the guy running it comes up because that's what that account does. Preston missed a penalty vs Derby - "Did they miss? Was it really a fairly taken penalty? Maybe the Tories don't want a Northern firmly working class side without plastic fans in the Premiership?". That's the level of political discourse from that discreditted account. |
Hi Bluey, good to see you back. | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
| |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 14:20 - Apr 2 with 1793 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 14:16 - Apr 2 by DJack |
Hi Bluey, good to see you back. |
Good to be back, Jack.. | | | |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 14:25 - Apr 2 with 1784 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 14:05 - Apr 2 by bluey_the_blue |
Maybe he's right tho - maybe it's the unsheeple like him who can clearly see through the British propaganda war to deflect from Brexit. Great people able to conveniently view things the way Putin wants them to. Litvinenko just committed suicide with an umbrella, after all.
Threats against exiles are clearly just cultural and linguistic misunderstandings; clearly just meant as friendly advice that the evil Brits could misconstrue anything said.
Actually what about this for a conspiracy theory.
Theresa May ( Tory ) knows that Russians will be looking to take out England's top boys at the WC. With Brexit, the sight of so many battered and bloody English would fundamentally weaken our negotiations with EU as we can't stand alone or something - so thus the "evil Tories" have engineered a situation to explain the beatings that will be handed out by the god fearing Ruskies... |
F@ck my eyes
Look who’s back
The lunatic from the east |  |
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| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 14:27 - Apr 2 with 1781 views | bluey_the_blue |
"F@ck my eyes"?
Hmm,hi Dazzer... | | | |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 14:30 - Apr 2 with 1772 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 14:27 - Apr 2 by bluey_the_blue |
"F@ck my eyes"?
Hmm,hi Dazzer... |
Oh no Rumbled
Haven’t seen you since the general election 😂 | |
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| Russia demands to see daughter of spy (n/t) on 14:36 - Apr 2 with 1755 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 14:30 - Apr 2 by oh_tommy_tommy |
Oh no Rumbled
Haven’t seen you since the general election 😂 |
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| Russia demands to see daughter of spy (n/t) on 14:36 - Apr 2 with 1755 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy on 14:30 - Apr 2 by oh_tommy_tommy |
Oh no Rumbled
Haven’t seen you since the general election 😂 |
Took time off the internet full stop whilst dealing with health issues.
Quite a refreshing break too, recharge the batteries and all that. Can highly recommend it. [Post edited 2 Apr 2018 14:38]
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| Russia demands to see daughter of spy (n/t) on 14:45 - Apr 2 with 1738 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy (n/t) on 14:36 - Apr 2 by bluey_the_blue |
Took time off the internet full stop whilst dealing with health issues.
Quite a refreshing break too, recharge the batteries and all that. Can highly recommend it. [Post edited 2 Apr 2018 14:38]
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Hope you are feeling better .
Break not me I’m still here fighting the socialist cause it’s tough work .
You can step right back into into line
Find a gap Between
Torys land slide 😀
Traitor
Czech spy
Ira terroist
Anti Semite
Russian stooge
Hezzbola bomb maker
All the above have been taken there’s plenty more out there, take your pick | |
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| Russia demands to see daughter of spy (n/t) on 14:48 - Apr 2 with 1731 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy (n/t) on 14:36 - Apr 2 by bluey_the_blue |
Took time off the internet full stop whilst dealing with health issues.
Quite a refreshing break too, recharge the batteries and all that. Can highly recommend it. [Post edited 2 Apr 2018 14:38]
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You clearly already need another long break Reddy.
Do you still think the uk government was correct on .....WMD in iraq ? Correct on Hillsborough ? Correct on the various high profile miscarriages of justice ? Correct on climate change ?
My lord, you are coming across as a child like simpleton.
Father Christmas still good to you ? ðŸ‘
Lets see shall we ?
You are getting played mate. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Russia demands to see daughter of spy (n/t) on 14:56 - Apr 2 with 1719 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Russia demands to see daughter of spy (n/t) on 14:48 - Apr 2 by Kilkennyjack |
You clearly already need another long break Reddy.
Do you still think the uk government was correct on .....WMD in iraq ? Correct on Hillsborough ? Correct on the various high profile miscarriages of justice ? Correct on climate change ?
My lord, you are coming across as a child like simpleton.
Father Christmas still good to you ? ðŸ‘
Lets see shall we ?
You are getting played mate. |
Killie. In this instance, it is you that is being played. | | | |
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