At West Brom Saints were focused and disciplined, this week they were disjointed and seemed unable to find any flow.

The big question before this game was all about whether Rickie Lambert can play in the same side as Dani Osvaldo, after this performance the jury has to be firmly still out, Saints had plenty of possession in the second half but they lacked the focus they had against the Baggies a week earlier.

Sunderland shocked the St Mary's crowd in the 3rd minute with a goal that showed that Saints defence is still vunerable at set pieces, put bluntly it was a shocking bit of marking as four players followed a feinting run leaving Giaccherin all on his own for a free header, a few minutes later Rodriguez looked to have put Saints level, but he was ruled offside, after the benefit of watching it on TV I have to say the linesman got it right, yes it was very tight, but J Rod in leaning forward had just put himself behind the back man, though there were only inches in it.

At half time there were two changes off went Schneiderlin and Shaw and on came Clyne and Osvaldo, sadly out of the window went Saints actually knowing what system they were playing, at any given time the players seemed to be constantly interchanging, one minute Lambert would be up top, the next in the centre of midfield or on the wing, it was likewise for Osvaldo and Rodriguez, to be truthful we just didn't seem to know who would be where and when they would be.

The strength of Saints at West Brom was that they had a system and stuck to it, the players all knew what job they had to do and what everyone else had to do, against Sunderland we seemed to throw the system out of the window to accommodate Lambert and Osvaldo in the same team, with Shaw off we went as near like for like as we could, a full back for a full back, but with Schneiderlin off we didn't put in the obvious replacement in Cork, or even another midfielder in Ramirez, we bought on Osvaldo and this upset the balance of the team.

We were lucky that Sunderland were poor, against a better side we would not have got away with this, but the fact is we had so much time on the ball that we got away with it, however we seemed to create little apart from when we slung balls in the box, yes we passed a lot but Sunderland just put up two banks of four and most of the time just watched us pass along the half way line, too many times we could find no penetration and too many times the man on the ball didn't know who would be where and what runs he would be making.

Rickie Lambert seemed to be trying too hard, of course he will feel under pressure for his place, that is natural, but he seemed to feel he had to score and there were a few more long range efforts from him than usual and this didn't benefit the team play overall.

But on the plus side it was good that we could still pick up a point even when giving an early goal away and struggling in front of goal ourselves, last year we lost to Sunderland in similar fashion, this year we didn't and picked up a point, expectations were higher, but we need to keep our feet on the ground sometimes, if we are to build on last season its going to be about picking up points were last season we didn't, turning defeats into draws and draws into wins, we have done that in both the opening games and that's an encouraging sign, keep doing that and we will be fine.

So Saints sit in the lofty heights of 4th on Sunday morning and that's good to see, however there is still a long way to go and as we know from last year, where you are after 2 games or even 4 games means nothing, its where you are at the end of the season that counts.

Photo: Action Images

legod7 added 11:14 - Aug 25 Nick, You are so negative it is unbelievable. You don't work for the Daily Echo do you with all your negative comments. With a" goal " ruled out for offside that was very debatable and 2 very clear cut penalties your are only focussing on the result not the overall performance which I thought was outstanding.Sometimes you can play brilliant and lose, sometimes rubbish and win. Yesterday we had all of the play with an over fussy referee. With a different referee we would have won that game easily

2

tolfree added 11:30 - Aug 25 Nick I must admit I so often feel torn when reading your analysis. On the one hand I think you write very well, have great analytical ability and clearly dedicate a lot of time to share insight for fans like myself. However, as often noted in comments, you have a very negative bias. It's not that I'm an eternal optimist, nor do I want to only ever talk about the positives, but I think that it is important to celebrate positives in a balanced way and I feel you fail to do that. If we were forth from bottom I could imagine you pointing out the negative of this. In this article you mention that we are forth which you qualify with the inevitable BUT. You fail to celebrate the never give up attitude of scoring a late goal, whereas had we conceded late goals in 2 games on the trot I feel confident you'd highlight the negatives. You don't, as the previous comment points out, pick up on the ample chances we had and referee decisions which in another game would have yielded more goals. Dicanio conceded we deserved to win, MOTD said we deserved to win and reinforced their belief we are a top 10 side. Yes there's room for improvement, but I find it sad you are always plagued by such negativity

2

slynch added 11:31 - Aug 25 I think you were watching a different game? The first half the team played tidy football easy on the eye and easy on their defence. The midfield passing it steadily along the front of their defence giving them time to get organized and consequently coming up against a brick wall every time anyone ventured forward. Half time something had to be done, and it was. With the change in personnel and tactics the midfield started punching holes in their defence, rapidly turning defence into attack so their defence were always chasing backwards and resorting to fouling. Indeed, that was where the goal came from. Osvaldo looked the real deal with massive strength and agility with sublime chips instead of the 3rd division crosses of the first half. Lambert got better service, Ramirez looked just too slippery for their defenders. The three of them were a force to be reckoned with and can only get better with more game time. Saying all that it was a defender who scored, well done Fonte. But start the next game where they left off and someone's (Norwich) gonna get trashed.

2

SaintNick added 11:43 - Aug 25 What I try to do on here is give an opinion of the match, my opinion of the match, I cant cover every aspect of it and every kick but I try to give my honest opinion and point out areas in which I feel we lacked, we all know the ones we were strong in. Im trying to bring up points for discussion on where we can improve not write a "Official site" type piece where everything is always rosy. MOTD was right we deserved to win, but we didn't win, in my opinion J Rods offside was tight very tight but correct, yes we should have had a couple of penalties, but we cant keep relying on them, so for all our domination we didn't win and I gave my opinion on why I thought we didn't. Football is all about passion and opinion, but lets not think that criticism has to be negative, farfrom it, it should be positive, Mauriccio Pochettino will run through the game with the team on Monday and he will concentrate on getting them to improve the areas where we fell down, would you feel that it would be far better just to praise the players pat them on the back, point at the league table and tell them how great they are or better to focus on why we left a man free etc

0

SaintNick added 11:49 - Aug 25 slynch im not sure whether the changes where tactical or enforced through injury, I cant see why we would have took Shaw off otherwise, CLyne is a good fullback but was constantly having to check to bring the ball to his right foot, sorry but for me the second half was disjointed, yes there were a series of good runs from a variety of players but they rarely amounted to much, all our chances were from long range or hopefull balls into the box, although the one from Osvaldo to Rodriguez was a peach of a cross he just couldn't get above it. I didn't think they were really chasing backwards, they were content to sit back and let us pass it around in areas that we could do no damage

0

redandwhitedee added 11:56 - Aug 25 Nick's reporting of this is so bad, because very likely as usual he probably wasn't there. Classic reporting was the friendly v arsenal which he reported the wrong team as winning the match. The other posters' comments are much closer to the truth.
0

tiptop added 12:05 - Aug 25 The ref was poor I thought..def went in favour of sunderland! It was shocking marking for their goal. I think the players might have the weight of expectation a little more and maybe this and conceding the early goal knocked them out of sink. If that is the case they need to shake that off Midfield looked solid with Spider and Wanyama doing the simple things well. We seemed flat first half though, the movement wasn't great up front. Saying that JRods effort could have easily been given and for me he was onside! If that had counted it would have settled us down maybe. Impressed with JWP and Chambers. Prowse's delivery is quality and there for all to see. Chambers looks assured, can cross well, he just doesn't get forward as such as clyne who has that extra pace. Ricky had one long range shot that i remember, a well struck effort that earned a corner. Didnt see that many long range efforts. We did though pump the ball forward more than I expect which was a sign of the not sticking to the system you mentioned. I have no problem with Osvaldo, Lambert in the front 3. Osvaldo looked good. Nearly got sent off tho ffs!! The subs were a bit enforced. We needed livening up going forward and I thought Osvaldo offered some more quaity and options. JWP dropped to replace Spider and did well. Over all I think we deserved to win, even if we were a bit off colour. Last season we would have lost. Lesson learned. Undefeated. Next! COYRs!!

1

tiptop added 12:08 - Aug 25 The ref was poor I thought..def went in favour of sunderland! It was shocking marking for their goal. I think the players might have the weight of expectation a little more and maybe this and conceding the early goal knocked them out of sink. If that is the case they need to shake that off Midfield looked solid with Spider and Wanyama doing the simple things well. We seemed flat first half though, the movement wasn't great up front. Saying that JRods effort could have easily been given and for me he was onside! If that had counted it would have settled us down maybe. Impressed with JWP and Chambers. Prowse's delivery is quality and there for all to see. Chambers looks assured, can cross well, he just doesn't get forward as such as clyne who has that extra pace. Ricky had one long range shot that i remember, a well struck effort that earned a corner. Didnt see that many long range efforts. We did though pump the ball forward more than I expect which was a sign of the not sticking to the system you mentioned. I have no problem with Osvaldo, Lambert in the front 3. Osvaldo looked good. Nearly got sent off tho ffs!! The subs were a bit enforced. We needed livening up going forward and I thought Osvaldo offered some more quaity and options. JWP dropped to replace Spider and did well. Over all I think we deserved to win, even if we were a bit off colour. Last season we would have lost. Lesson learned. Undefeated. Next! COYRs!!

0

hortonsaint added 12:20 - Aug 25 After only 45 minutes I don't think we can draw too many conclusions as to whether Osvaldo and Lambert can play together but I disagree on the comments about player positions and thought there were some encouraging signs. It is important to stress though that players don't 'hold' positions as much as in days gone by and are expected (and do) to interchange in the attacking phases and the understanding between the current players and Osvaldo will take time to develop. Lambert is a classic example of this and I saw no difference in his positional movement in the second half, he regularly drops deep and into wide areas and that's the beauty of his game because it does so much in terms of pulling markers around. There is little point in him spending the whole game in a CF position as he doesn't have the pace to hurt the defence that way. Look at the average positions against West Brom, Lambert was marginally the furthest player forward in the match ahead of J Rod who was the closest player to him even though he is considered as a 'wide player' by many (our full backs are our designated wide players in attack augemented by others moving into these areas, usually but not always from the 3 attacking players behind Lambert). The way we are set up is for Lambert to be the notional CF but the three attacking players behind him rotate regulalrly with all looking to get beyond him when he drops into deeper or wider areas making marking and picking up more difficult. The problem comes that when a side such as Sunderland sit behind the ball, it becomes difficult to break down and moves have to be executed qucikly and accurately which did not happen enough yesterday with too much controlled but harmless possession but MP seems intent that we will keep passing and moving until we do break through. As for more shots from long range I can think of one of note when he found space and was perfectly entitled to have a go and the keeper saved it. Overall I thought the game was a little frustrating but we have to accept that against a side like Sunderland we are going to have a lot of possessionn and keep playing the same way even if it seems to go nowhere at times. I'd like to have seen us revert to a 4-4-2 in the second half, play with some width and get down the flanks but that's not MP's way.

0

Fordy added 13:22 - Aug 25 It was disappointing that Ramirez didn't come on much earlier. If he can't come on with Sunderland just sitting there what's the point of him? I think MP felt he had to bring Osvaldo on and with Shaw going off didn't want to use up all his subs. But Ramirez looked the most dangerous player when he came on. J Rod was very poor yesterday and I think he might be the one to make way for Osvaldo. We could do with a winger though who can run at defenders. It is the only area of the team where we are really lacking at the moment.

2

thegeneral added 13:26 - Aug 25 Enjoyable nailbiter, ref was pretty awful and don't know how O'shea stayed on the pitch, glad he got a belt at the end. Really is nothing to worry about, a good young squad thats still learning and when the 'telepathy' to break teams down does kick in i think alot of people are going to be shocked as to how good we are.
2

SingaporeSaint added 13:53 - Aug 25 We were much the better side - but suffered from letting in a poor goal against a well organised defensive team who then parked the bus. All in all we looked a good team - I thought the second half was also decent, clearly throwing on another striker and being more fluid in positions. On the very positive side - JWP was phenomenal, he looks an England player in the making, great delivery and energy and naturally 2 footed. How many 18 year olds are on all the free kicks - not least with the $$ value of our players? Wanyama also looks excellent, strong and dominant and a decent footballer too. Chambers is a double whammy - not only a good player but we now have defensive cover at full back, so losing Shaw did not hurt us like it would have done last year. Was all us but we need to be better in the final third. This is where the problems are - for me JRod is not good enough to be starting for a team with aspirations of the top 8. He tries hard, but his technique is so often lacking. Osvaldo is a real talent - see the highlights of Inter 1 Roma 3 to underline it. That being said we need him to do the running in behind which Lambert needs from a partner and we will look bright. We were better than them, much better, 70% of possession proves it - if we can get Osvaldo ticking then we wont be drawing these games - despite only drawing I thought the spirit and potential was encouraging, Future looks bright to me.

2

davepid added 15:06 - Aug 25 Perhaps nics analysis was tempered by the thought that the performance was like many we saw last year - not least at Sunderland away. Lots of possession, giving away a soft goal, creating but not converting chances, Lallana and Rod wasting good chances in particular, dominating midfield ,wanting a split second longer on the ball- were all to commonplace last season. We haven't yet learnt to convert all our very pretty play into goals. Am I alone in beginning to get fed up with Lallana falling over in the box? He needs to get stronger and stop bleating about the decisions.

1

BaselSaint added 15:22 - Aug 25 O'Shea is a tw*t. Poch is smart enough to configure this team. We were techinally superior by a mile but the training ground is different to a real match situation. We should see a steady harmonisation of all the players, believe me, it will work
0

Boris1977 added 16:16 - Aug 25 Davepid you're spot on - this is what nick's concern is - saints and the coaching staff not learning from the same mistakes. These have been issues on our way back up the leagues , particularly in defence. In the lower leagues we could and did get away with it. In the prem we don't. Nick can sometimes lean towards the glass half full but he's concerned that progress is hampered by the repetition of the same issues i.e not killing games we dominate and stupid defensive errors. If Nick appears too negative it's down to frustration and caring about the progress of our magnificent football team. Keep up the good work Nick - once those mistakes have been ironed out saints will be an awesome and feared footballing force.

0

saintmark1976 added 18:04 - Aug 25 I did not go yesterday but did listen to Uncle Dave on the radio and see the highlights on match of the day.Like davepid I am beginning to wonder if Lallana is a luxury we can not afford. Quite simply he appears to get chance after chance but manages to convert very few. Like Rodriques his efforts are mainly either off side, round the post, over the bar or straight at the keeper. In my opinion to even consider dropping Lambert whilst either of Lallana or Rodriquez stay in the team would be madness. Having said the above we lost at W B A last season and lost at home to Sunderland so I suppose it is not all bad so far?

0

SaintDownUnder added 00:45 - Aug 26 Lads, I live in sydney which makes getting to games tricky, although I will be at St Marys when we play spurs in December. Can anybody who was at the game tell me how we lined up in the 2nd half - I see MoPo replaced Spider with Osvlado (which I believe is the tactical reshuffle slynch is talking about). So we start with a 4-2-3-1 with Wanyama and Spider in the 2, what happened when spider departed and Osvaldo came on? Also I'm reading and seeing that Ward prowse is flourishing at the moment is he the real deal or will he make way to accomodate Osvaldo? From what Ive seen on Foxsports we are growing into a decent side and I love the blend of youth and experience we're putting out on the pitch.

0

BoondockSaint added 03:27 - Aug 26 Agree with Davepid . I've always thought Ricky rather than Lallana should be captain. He's the public face of the team, leads in scoring and is the senior man, so why not ? Lalanna is going to get us a bad rep with the refs with the diving and whinging. As to the game: How do you not just each take a man on a corner?? Gaston should start over J-Rod. Osvaldo looks the money! Happy with the point, but lucky they tried to sit on that one goal. We have to break the bad habits of the last few years: giving up cheap goals and playing to the level of the opposition

1

ExiledSupporter added 08:33 - Aug 26 I also live far enough from Hampshire (though not as far as Sydney) so rarely get to home matches, and depend upon the comments of those who can attend. Nic from my limited perspective it would be helpful to have a fuller more rounded view of the whole game, the good and the bad. I was surprised that Schneiderlein had been subbed at half time, generally I would have expected him to be a vital part of any team we would normally send out...was he injured, was it tactical or was he off his usual game.? Did it make more sense to bring on Osvaldo than Cork as a more obvious replacement? Is Chambers better on the right than Clyne or is Clyne yet to reach match fitness. For some time Lallana place has been questionable for the reasons that several correspondents cite; he doesn't seem to have the physical strength to stay on his feet and I suspect that he throws himself about a bit too readily, nor is he decisive enough in his finishing...is he worth his place and should he be captain? I have serious doubts about his suitability for the latter. JRod is similarly low in the statistics for converting chances into goals, though I continue to be optimistic about his development; he was on fire for a part of last season and needs to be more consistent, but is he really Lambert's medium term replacement? And then there is the selection/debate about Lambert with Osvaldo or one or the other on their own. Because we don't have good enough talent on the wings (and assuming that Ramirez is the player who should be contributing 10 or so goals per season from the 'hole'...quite a big assumption I agree) we seem unlikely to play a 4-4-2 system which is wholly alien to MP who appears to be rather inflexible with regard to his preferred formation. But is it viable to play them both at the expense of a midfielder, perhaps the most influential midfielder that we have had in the last couple of years? How should we accommodate Ramirez (too talented to omit, too inconsistent to select)? Too many correspondents seem to revert to a 'have faith' stance rather than analytically examine the issues. The sort of 'we trust in MP, Cortese or Reed approach is unconvincing, so I would always commend St Nic's more questioning approach, but all of these approaches are opinions, some a good deal more subjective than others!

0

ItchenNorth added 09:13 - Aug 26 Reasons to be cheerful 1,2,3 ! 1, Lallana looked lively again (1st half was his best performance for some time) 2, Osvaldo looks quality (will get better once fully settled into the starting 11) 3, Ramirez, looked good (must start for me esp home and away v teams like this)
0

Waylander added 10:03 - Aug 26 I don't think you give enough credit to Sudnerland for defending well. They may not have offered much going forward but they were very solid and disciplined at the back.
0

hortonsaint added 11:28 - Aug 26 Saint Down Under, when Schneiderlin came off Ward Prowse moved into the central midfield with Wanyuma and Osvaldo played in behind Lambert with the two rotating position although in this 4-2-3-1 the '3' and the central striker rotate positions throughout. We played higher up the field in the second half too although continued to create many clear cut chances. Ward Prowse has stated the season really well and the fact that he has been taking set pieces (and has obviously been coached in them over the Summer) suggests he is going to be a part of the team throughout the season. He played on the right of the 3 at WBA and for the first half on Saturday, the only question I have with that is whether at home he has enough flair to play in that position to break down sides who defend in numbers but away from home looks ideally suited to that position where he is excellent in defending that side of the pitch ahead of the full back . He looked at home in the central midfield area too. By the way hope you are making the most of the 3-0 Ashes win down there! Someone asked about Chambers, looks very promising and composed given his inexperience, however I would favour Clyne when fully fit who (at the moment at least) gives us a greater attacking threat from that position which is vital in providing the width in this system.

0

Winchsaint added 12:10 - Aug 26 Was at St Mary's on Saturday and despite sitting glum for most of it, once we got an equaliser there was a real push to get a winner making the last five minutes really exciting. Overall, It wasn't a bad performance but I think our main problem was that despite dominating the middle of the park our midfielders dwelled on the ball for too long which allowed Sunderland to reform the two banks of four as noted by other posters. Pass and move is great, but we're not quite Barcelona yet, need to be more instinctive and make sure the opposition can't keep up. Just watched the highlights on Saintsplayer and Osvaldo's chipped cross to Rodriguez was absolutely world class, the precision and weight on the ball inch perfect. More of the same please!

0

abingdonsaint added 16:35 - Aug 26 I know I am more of a 'glass half full' type, but despite the slightly disappointing result, thought there were plenty of positives from Saturday. The early goal we conceded was obviously poor, but whereas last season we huffed and puffed in those situations, without looking like scoring (as against the same opponents), this time we created a number of clear opportunities, and on another day could easily have won. Osvaldo looked promising, and that was JWP's best performance by a mile. Always thought he was tidy, but he showed a lot of ability and much improved dead ball delivery. On Nick's report, once again I feel you have fallen into the trap of making judgments based on the match result. If the two headers that went straight to the keeper had gone a yard either side and we won 3 - 1, Poch would have probably been hailed a tactical genius! As it is, we looked far more dangerous in the second half, and the comments about our shape are bizarre. The interchanging of positions is obviously intentional Nick, and whilst the understanding between Osvaldo and Rickie will improve with time, Rickie always drifts into midfield and wide anyway. We play with a fluid system as most continental coaches do, NOT a rigid formation, that's the whole point! So, optimist that I am, I saw little on Saturday to change my view that we are in for a very exciting season....onwards and upwards!

0

bstokesaint added 13:20 - Aug 27 Like many other posters I saw many more positives than negatives following the game against Sunderland. I think the fact that we are able to play JWP, Shaw and Chambers in what is now a very expensive first team, shows how highly we value the products of our academy. We also came from behind against a team with a rigid defensive plan and that should deserve credit. Lallana was a concern for me last season because in my opinion he has so far failed to live up his billing as a man who can open up defences. That said he's looked very bright at the start of this season. If he could learn to stay on his feet a little better and get a few more shots on target he might find his game go up a level. I really hope so, as I know how committed to the club he is and how adored by Saints’ fans. I also think it's too early in the season to be saying whether Jay Rod is good enough. Let’s not forget he was a record signing just last season and when played in his more natural role flourished, getting many plaudits from the footballing experts, some even saying he should be considered as an international player over Lambert. Why can’t we have 4 strikers alternating for first team places? Did anyone tell Sir Alex he couldn’t do that when he had Yorke, Cole, Solskjaer and Sheringham all rotating constantly? And look at the bench. Last season we were moaning we didn’t have enough quality on the bench. Look at how many umpteen million pounds worth of talent we had at our disposal on Saturday. No there are way too many positives right now to write dismissively. For me the only real worry is Ramirez and if he has a future at the club at this current time.

0

Blogs 31 bloggers

Rochdale Polls