| Mrs Thatcher 12:52 - Apr 8 with 21385 views | BartRowou |
Dead |  |
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| Mrs Thatcher on 04:52 - Apr 10 with 1710 views | downunder |
| Mrs Thatcher on 22:54 - Apr 9 by ChaffRAFC |
Morrissey has had his say:
"The difficulty with giving a comment on Margaret Thatcher's death to the British tabloids is that, no matter how calmly and measured you speak, the comment must be reported as an "outburst" or an "explosive attack" if your view is not pro-establishment.
If you reference "the Malvinas", it will be switched to "the Falklands", and your "Thatcher" will be softened to a "Maggie." This is generally how things are structured in a non-democratic society. Thatcher's name must be protected not because of all the wrong that she had done, but because the people around her allowed her to do it, and therefore any criticism of Thatcher throws a dangerously absurd light on the entire machinery of British politics.
Thatcher was not a strong or formidable leader. She simply did not give a shit about people, and this coarseness has been neatly transformed into bravery by the British press who are attempting to re-write history in order to protect patriotism. As a result, any opposing view is stifled or ridiculed, whereas we must all endure the obligatory praise for Thatcher from David Cameron without any suggestion from the BBC that his praise just might be an outburst of pro-Thatcher extremism from someone whose praise might possibly protect his own current interests.
The fact that Thatcher ignited the British public into street-riots, violent demonstrations and a social disorder previously unseen in British history is completely ignored by David Cameron in 2013. In truth, of course, no British politician has ever been more despised by the British people than Margaret Thatcher.
Thatcher's funeral on Wednesday will be heavily policed for fear that the British tax-payer will want to finally express their view of Thatcher. They are certain to be tear-gassed out of sight by the police.
United Kingdom? Syria? China? What's the difference?" |
Morrissey talks there as if everybody hated Thatcher. This thread, where the posters are a fair cross section of the general public, is proving there is an even split of support. From my one meeting with Morrissey, i concluded he tried to dominate and dictate the then Manchester Music scene, as good as Hitler and Mussolini tried to dominate their respective countries.
I listen to his music. But he was, and still is, in my opinion, a tvvat. |  | | |
| Mrs Thatcher on 06:29 - Apr 10 with 1705 views | wimborne_dale |
| Mrs Thatcher on 22:54 - Apr 9 by ChaffRAFC |
Morrissey has had his say:
"The difficulty with giving a comment on Margaret Thatcher's death to the British tabloids is that, no matter how calmly and measured you speak, the comment must be reported as an "outburst" or an "explosive attack" if your view is not pro-establishment.
If you reference "the Malvinas", it will be switched to "the Falklands", and your "Thatcher" will be softened to a "Maggie." This is generally how things are structured in a non-democratic society. Thatcher's name must be protected not because of all the wrong that she had done, but because the people around her allowed her to do it, and therefore any criticism of Thatcher throws a dangerously absurd light on the entire machinery of British politics.
Thatcher was not a strong or formidable leader. She simply did not give a shit about people, and this coarseness has been neatly transformed into bravery by the British press who are attempting to re-write history in order to protect patriotism. As a result, any opposing view is stifled or ridiculed, whereas we must all endure the obligatory praise for Thatcher from David Cameron without any suggestion from the BBC that his praise just might be an outburst of pro-Thatcher extremism from someone whose praise might possibly protect his own current interests.
The fact that Thatcher ignited the British public into street-riots, violent demonstrations and a social disorder previously unseen in British history is completely ignored by David Cameron in 2013. In truth, of course, no British politician has ever been more despised by the British people than Margaret Thatcher.
Thatcher's funeral on Wednesday will be heavily policed for fear that the British tax-payer will want to finally express their view of Thatcher. They are certain to be tear-gassed out of sight by the police.
United Kingdom? Syria? China? What's the difference?" |
Try going to China or Syria and criticising their governments. Then you'll know the difference! |  |
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| Mrs Thatcher on 07:23 - Apr 10 with 1690 views | JumeirahDale |
| Mrs Thatcher on 06:29 - Apr 10 by wimborne_dale |
Try going to China or Syria and criticising their governments. Then you'll know the difference! |
Took the words right out of my mouth. Morrissey should try writing something like that in Syria or China and see where he ends up.
His labelled "most despised politician" was voted in for three terms. When he says "most despised", he means "by me, the people I mix with, and my fans - who believe what I tell them to believe in C minor"! |  | | |
| Mrs Thatcher on 09:09 - Apr 10 with 1661 views | Daley_Lama |
The three Tory elections of 79,83 and 87 saw Maggie elected with percentages of 44%, 42% and 42% of the popular vote.
In contrast, in those three elecections the natural opposition to Maggie got their worst post war percentages ever. Numerous factors for that of course (rubbish leaders, emergence of the Liberals, Falklands etc etc) but it does show that there was not a national hatred of Maggie throughout her tenure.
Mozzer is probably right however, she probably is the most hated PM in the modern era.
The reason for this is that she (as has been said ad nauseum) brings out emotions, good or bad. It is better to have loved and lost as the saying goes.
The average bloke doesn't give a rats bum about most PMs, only Maggie. For those that dont like her the hatred is strong.
Voting turn out in recent elections
1979 - 76%
1983 - 73%
1987 - 73%
2001 - 59%
2005 - 61%
2010 - 65%
She put bums on seats did Maggie. Many Tory ones in the House of Commons of course. |  |
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| Mrs Thatcher on 09:28 - Apr 10 with 1644 views | SuddenLad |
Historians will argue for generations to come about the effect of the Thatcher government and their policies, but it needs to be said that being a Prime Minister primarily is about leading the country, with emphasis on the word LEADING.
Contrary to the ideas of the Tony Blair's of this world, the post of Prime Minister isn't the prize for winning a popularity contest like 'X-Factor', nor an opportunity to wallow in your quest to satisfy an insatiable thirst for love and praise, nor is it about massaging the egos of the acolytes that hang on to your coat-tails and manipulate the media. It's not about hob-nobbing with film stars or sportsmen for the staged 'photo-call', it's about dealing with serious issues that affect the general health, wealth and security of our country and our people.
As Antony Jay said;
"You can judge a leader by the size of the problem he tackles. Other people can cope with the waves, it's his job to watch the tide".
Thatcher was first and foremost, a leader. Of course she got some things wrong - who doesn't but whatever else she did, she LED this country through some difficult times. You wouldn't find her on a beach in Guadeloupe (like her predecessor Callaghan) when the country was in crisis (What crisis ? said Callaghan on his return to face the massed ranks of the media  )
Being bombed out of your bed at 4.00 am by the IRA can't have been something you planned for during a party conference, but instead of disappearing into a shell, she appeared before the world's media within a matter of hours, impeccably turned-out, to publicly confront those who thought the Government could be bombed out of office, and made them know that they were never going to achieve anything by resorting to terrorism.
Thatcher did what was necessary for the time that she was in office. As she said herself, some decisions were painful and unpleasant, but they were necessary and as Prime Minister, she had a responsibility to make those decisions.
The confrontation with the miners was predominantly an orchestrated battle initiated by the communists within the NUM (mainly Arthur Scargill the leader and Mick McGahey, Scottish NUM leader - both committed communists) They cynically used their own positions to manipulate the miners in the furtherance of their own political ideals. Remember that none of the miners were ever balloted before the strike took place.
Whether or not people agree with the policies and politics of Margaret Thatcher and her government, she earned and deserved the respect she achieved as a world leader but it is primarily for her role as our Prime Minister that she deserves her public send-off next week.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Mrs Thatcher on 10:00 - Apr 10 with 1624 views | wimborne_dale |
| Mrs Thatcher on 09:28 - Apr 10 by SuddenLad |
Historians will argue for generations to come about the effect of the Thatcher government and their policies, but it needs to be said that being a Prime Minister primarily is about leading the country, with emphasis on the word LEADING.
Contrary to the ideas of the Tony Blair's of this world, the post of Prime Minister isn't the prize for winning a popularity contest like 'X-Factor', nor an opportunity to wallow in your quest to satisfy an insatiable thirst for love and praise, nor is it about massaging the egos of the acolytes that hang on to your coat-tails and manipulate the media. It's not about hob-nobbing with film stars or sportsmen for the staged 'photo-call', it's about dealing with serious issues that affect the general health, wealth and security of our country and our people.
As Antony Jay said;
"You can judge a leader by the size of the problem he tackles. Other people can cope with the waves, it's his job to watch the tide".
Thatcher was first and foremost, a leader. Of course she got some things wrong - who doesn't but whatever else she did, she LED this country through some difficult times. You wouldn't find her on a beach in Guadeloupe (like her predecessor Callaghan) when the country was in crisis (What crisis ? said Callaghan on his return to face the massed ranks of the media )
Being bombed out of your bed at 4.00 am by the IRA can't have been something you planned for during a party conference, but instead of disappearing into a shell, she appeared before the world's media within a matter of hours, impeccably turned-out, to publicly confront those who thought the Government could be bombed out of office, and made them know that they were never going to achieve anything by resorting to terrorism.
Thatcher did what was necessary for the time that she was in office. As she said herself, some decisions were painful and unpleasant, but they were necessary and as Prime Minister, she had a responsibility to make those decisions.
The confrontation with the miners was predominantly an orchestrated battle initiated by the communists within the NUM (mainly Arthur Scargill the leader and Mick McGahey, Scottish NUM leader - both committed communists) They cynically used their own positions to manipulate the miners in the furtherance of their own political ideals. Remember that none of the miners were ever balloted before the strike took place.
Whether or not people agree with the policies and politics of Margaret Thatcher and her government, she earned and deserved the respect she achieved as a world leader but it is primarily for her role as our Prime Minister that she deserves her public send-off next week.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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Very good post SuddenLad!
You point out "she LED this country... ", I could add:-
"as opposed to FOLLOWING another country". [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Mrs Thatcher on 10:04 - Apr 10 with 1620 views | ThreeLions |
| Mrs Thatcher on 22:09 - Apr 9 by dalenumber2 |
I've heard that there is going to be a minute's silence before football matches this weekend. That should be interesting.... |
I hope they do, I wont be observing it as im sure the away fans wont with the destruction of the potteries industry in the 1980's wont |  | | |
| Mrs Thatcher on 10:08 - Apr 10 with 1615 views | Daley_Lama |
| Mrs Thatcher on 10:04 - Apr 10 by ThreeLions |
I hope they do, I wont be observing it as im sure the away fans wont with the destruction of the potteries industry in the 1980's wont |
So far I believe it is at the clubs individual discretion.
I couldn't imagine Rotherham for example doing so. The same point was made about the Cardiff game last night. | |
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| Mrs Thatcher on 10:14 - Apr 10 with 1607 views | ThreeLions |
| Mrs Thatcher on 10:08 - Apr 10 by Daley_Lama |
So far I believe it is at the clubs individual discretion.
I couldn't imagine Rotherham for example doing so. The same point was made about the Cardiff game last night. |
I believe Barnsley are doing something to celebrate in the 84/85th minute | | | |
| Mrs Thatcher on 10:27 - Apr 10 with 1593 views | judd |
| Mrs Thatcher on 10:14 - Apr 10 by ThreeLions |
I believe Barnsley are doing something to celebrate in the 84/85th minute |
They're going to strike? |  |
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| Mrs Thatcher on 10:30 - Apr 10 with 1589 views | dalenumber2 |
MPs told can claim up to £3,750 each to break holidays for today's Thatcher tributes. ?!?? |  | | |
| Mrs Thatcher on 10:33 - Apr 10 with 1589 views | dingdangblue |
On a lighter note, in Taiwan one news channel ran the story of Maggie's death accompanied by footage of the Queen and another had a photo of Meryl Streep! |  |
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| Mrs Thatcher on 10:45 - Apr 10 with 1577 views | ThreeLions |
| Mrs Thatcher on 10:27 - Apr 10 by judd |
They're going to strike? |
ALL OUT!!!!! | | | |
| Mrs Thatcher on 10:45 - Apr 10 with 1577 views | ThreeLions |
| Mrs Thatcher on 10:27 - Apr 10 by judd |
They're going to strike? |
ALL OUT!!!!! | | | |
| Mrs Thatcher on 11:03 - Apr 10 with 1566 views | pioneer |
| Mrs Thatcher on 09:28 - Apr 10 by SuddenLad |
Historians will argue for generations to come about the effect of the Thatcher government and their policies, but it needs to be said that being a Prime Minister primarily is about leading the country, with emphasis on the word LEADING.
Contrary to the ideas of the Tony Blair's of this world, the post of Prime Minister isn't the prize for winning a popularity contest like 'X-Factor', nor an opportunity to wallow in your quest to satisfy an insatiable thirst for love and praise, nor is it about massaging the egos of the acolytes that hang on to your coat-tails and manipulate the media. It's not about hob-nobbing with film stars or sportsmen for the staged 'photo-call', it's about dealing with serious issues that affect the general health, wealth and security of our country and our people.
As Antony Jay said;
"You can judge a leader by the size of the problem he tackles. Other people can cope with the waves, it's his job to watch the tide".
Thatcher was first and foremost, a leader. Of course she got some things wrong - who doesn't but whatever else she did, she LED this country through some difficult times. You wouldn't find her on a beach in Guadeloupe (like her predecessor Callaghan) when the country was in crisis (What crisis ? said Callaghan on his return to face the massed ranks of the media )
Being bombed out of your bed at 4.00 am by the IRA can't have been something you planned for during a party conference, but instead of disappearing into a shell, she appeared before the world's media within a matter of hours, impeccably turned-out, to publicly confront those who thought the Government could be bombed out of office, and made them know that they were never going to achieve anything by resorting to terrorism.
Thatcher did what was necessary for the time that she was in office. As she said herself, some decisions were painful and unpleasant, but they were necessary and as Prime Minister, she had a responsibility to make those decisions.
The confrontation with the miners was predominantly an orchestrated battle initiated by the communists within the NUM (mainly Arthur Scargill the leader and Mick McGahey, Scottish NUM leader - both committed communists) They cynically used their own positions to manipulate the miners in the furtherance of their own political ideals. Remember that none of the miners were ever balloted before the strike took place.
Whether or not people agree with the policies and politics of Margaret Thatcher and her government, she earned and deserved the respect she achieved as a world leader but it is primarily for her role as our Prime Minister that she deserves her public send-off next week.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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The confrontation with the miners was orchestrated alright, by the Tories as part of a stategic plan developed in opposition to smash the unions that included among other things the militaristion of the police force.
Her real legacy is no other prime minister's death has led to street parties!
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| Mrs Thatcher on 11:04 - Apr 10 with 1564 views | SuddenLad |
| Mrs Thatcher on 11:03 - Apr 10 by pioneer |
The confrontation with the miners was orchestrated alright, by the Tories as part of a stategic plan developed in opposition to smash the unions that included among other things the militaristion of the police force.
Her real legacy is no other prime minister's death has led to street parties!
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Have you been reading the 'Morning Star' ? | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Mrs Thatcher on 11:14 - Apr 10 with 1560 views | pioneer |
| Mrs Thatcher on 11:04 - Apr 10 by SuddenLad |
Have you been reading the 'Morning Star' ? |
No, but I lived it.
Have you been reading the daily Telegraph? | | | |
| Mrs Thatcher on 11:20 - Apr 10 with 1552 views | SuddenLad |
| Mrs Thatcher on 11:14 - Apr 10 by pioneer |
No, but I lived it.
Have you been reading the daily Telegraph? |
No, but having read some comments from Neil Kinnock and his thoughts on Scargill, it makes clear how much Scargill was (and is) despised for what he set out to do and the manner in which he led people to 'economic slaughter'. | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Mrs Thatcher on 16:23 - Apr 10 with 1488 views | pioneer |
| Mrs Thatcher on 11:20 - Apr 10 by SuddenLad |
No, but having read some comments from Neil Kinnock and his thoughts on Scargill, it makes clear how much Scargill was (and is) despised for what he set out to do and the manner in which he led people to 'economic slaughter'. |
Lord Kinnock you mean, another failed politician who became a member of the establishment and made loads of doh from various political appointments.
But instead of saying what NK said about some former union leader lets stick to the point- what did he say about the topic of this thread?
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| Mrs Thatcher on 19:18 - Apr 10 with 1458 views | SuddenLad |
| Mrs Thatcher on 16:23 - Apr 10 by pioneer |
Lord Kinnock you mean, another failed politician who became a member of the establishment and made loads of doh from various political appointments.
But instead of saying what NK said about some former union leader lets stick to the point- what did he say about the topic of this thread?
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Yes, Lord & Lady Kinnock. Failed British politician and his wife who sold their souls to the EU in return for vast salaries and expenses.
Anyway, to answer your question:
Quotes to the BBC on the announcement of her death:
Neil Kinnock
“I recognise and admire the great distinction of Baroness Thatcher as the first woman to become leader of a major UK political party and prime minister. I am sorry to hear of her death and offer my sympathy to her family.”
Tony Blair said:
“Margaret Thatcher was a towering political figure. Very few leaders get to change not only the political landscape of their country but of the world. Margaret was such a leader. Her global impact was vast. And some of the changes she made in Britain were, in certain respects at least, retained by the 1997 Labour Government, and came to be implemented by governments around the world. As a person she was kind and generous spirited and was always immensely supportive to me as Prime Minister although we came from opposite sides of politics. Even if you disagreed with her as I did on certain issues and occasionally strongly, you could not disrespect her character or her contribution to Britain’s national life. She will be sadly missed.”
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| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Mrs Thatcher on 19:29 - Apr 10 with 1444 views | pioneer |
| Mrs Thatcher on 19:18 - Apr 10 by SuddenLad |
Yes, Lord & Lady Kinnock. Failed British politician and his wife who sold their souls to the EU in return for vast salaries and expenses.
Anyway, to answer your question:
Quotes to the BBC on the announcement of her death:
Neil Kinnock
“I recognise and admire the great distinction of Baroness Thatcher as the first woman to become leader of a major UK political party and prime minister. I am sorry to hear of her death and offer my sympathy to her family.”
Tony Blair said:
“Margaret Thatcher was a towering political figure. Very few leaders get to change not only the political landscape of their country but of the world. Margaret was such a leader. Her global impact was vast. And some of the changes she made in Britain were, in certain respects at least, retained by the 1997 Labour Government, and came to be implemented by governments around the world. As a person she was kind and generous spirited and was always immensely supportive to me as Prime Minister although we came from opposite sides of politics. Even if you disagreed with her as I did on certain issues and occasionally strongly, you could not disrespect her character or her contribution to Britain’s national life. She will be sadly missed.”
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You might want to provide the rest of the Kinnock quote to avoid being acused of selective quotations
He went on to say
"She was a person who couldn’t see, or didn’t want to see the unfairness and disadvantaging consequences of the application of what she thought to be a renewing ideology.
Thatcherism was a personality presented through a particular vocabulary and set of attitudes which Âgenerally took a pride in insularity, being domineering and a short-termism in its approach to management and the conduct of political affairs.
And it was conveyed as being for the long-term nourishment and well-being of the nation.
But it was a frame of mind, not a political philosophy and not an economic policy.
It was an unmitigated disaster for Britain because, if you recall, it commenced with a series of Budget changes and use of interest rates which, combined with the fact that oil was monumentally coming on stream, pushed the price of the pound out of sight and succeeded in inflicting devastating harm on the productive base of Britain.
And the end result was not modernisation, it was Âdevastation."
As for Blair, he has been caught lying so often both during and since his time as Prime Minister, what comes out of his mouth and what he really thinks are usually polar opposites. I have yet to find anyone who cares what Blair thinks or says - and that included the Mad Cow.
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| Mrs Thatcher on 19:35 - Apr 10 with 1440 views | Dale57 |
Dont know why folk give these folk so much of their time.They are all the same lying cheating self centred pile of she-ite's who all wee wee in the same pot. |  | | |
| Mrs Thatcher on 20:58 - Apr 10 with 1415 views | ThreeLions |
| Mrs Thatcher on 19:29 - Apr 10 by pioneer |
You might want to provide the rest of the Kinnock quote to avoid being acused of selective quotations
He went on to say
"She was a person who couldn’t see, or didn’t want to see the unfairness and disadvantaging consequences of the application of what she thought to be a renewing ideology.
Thatcherism was a personality presented through a particular vocabulary and set of attitudes which Âgenerally took a pride in insularity, being domineering and a short-termism in its approach to management and the conduct of political affairs.
And it was conveyed as being for the long-term nourishment and well-being of the nation.
But it was a frame of mind, not a political philosophy and not an economic policy.
It was an unmitigated disaster for Britain because, if you recall, it commenced with a series of Budget changes and use of interest rates which, combined with the fact that oil was monumentally coming on stream, pushed the price of the pound out of sight and succeeded in inflicting devastating harm on the productive base of Britain.
And the end result was not modernisation, it was Âdevastation."
As for Blair, he has been caught lying so often both during and since his time as Prime Minister, what comes out of his mouth and what he really thinks are usually polar opposites. I have yet to find anyone who cares what Blair thinks or says - and that included the Mad Cow.
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The least said about New Labour the better, not a big fan of Ed but at least his views arent centre right | | | |
| Mrs Thatcher on 23:23 - Apr 10 with 1362 views | Thacks_Rabbits |
| Mrs Thatcher on 14:21 - Apr 9 by ThreeLions |
To all those Union bashing here ive one thing to add, you know tjose benefits at work and those great terms and conditions you get ? If it wasnt for the unions youd be still working in conditions enjoyed by those in the workhouses and mills of the early 1900's.
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Regarding Unions - They are a complete waste of time - no power or influence now - and everyone knows it now so no employer really respects them - if you were to look at a football analygy - In the 1970's they were Terry Hurlock - Now they are Joe Allen!!!
Personally I am very pro what Maggie did and at a time that we needed a strong leader to stop UK's versions of Jimmy Hoffa.
Suddens views I tend to think are very well written and totally agree!!!
I would say before you knock Maggie for what she did - name a better P.M. in your living memory - I am sure some can and give valid reasons - but those who celebrated her death are the same irk that loot, rob, preach anarchy and are happy to take benefits - generally!!! |  |
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| Mrs Thatcher on 23:43 - Apr 10 with 1356 views | R17ALE |
I've taken much interest in this thread, and have concluded that the pro Thatcher posts are in far better English than the anti Thatcher posts.
This, in itself, speaks volumes. |  |
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