| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? 23:42 - Oct 16 with 43192 views | jackrabbit |
You'd think so from all the pompous pontification dominating the airwaves in the last few days. Pompous-Prat-in-Chief, Nick Clegg piled in with his fourpennorth today and in true Cleggy style managed to sway me right over onto the side of Evans. I had not given it much thought or had an opinion before - I wasn't that aware of Evans either as a footballer or a person - but I decided to read about the case.
From what I understand he went bed pissed wth a pissed-up 19 year old and sex took place - there was no physical violence. I wasn't there so i don't know the precise details. There was another person involved but he got off relatively mildly - Evans received a hefty jail term.
Now having served his fairly hefty sentence, he is being threatened with denial of his right to earn a living by continuing his career.
Now rape is a foul and terrible crime. However I have problem with some of these situations being described as 'rape'. Without being crass, when does 'persuasive and persistent seduction' carry over into 'rape'? I always thought it was when it was accompanied by force or violence to get your way. I am so glad I'm an old fart and was young when I was young in the 60s and 70s.
Since time immemorial women (and men) have woken up, taken one look at the head on the pillow next to them and instantly regretted the night before. Usually it has been logged under 'big mistake - not to be repeated' and then the person has just gone away and carried on with life. Je ne regrette rien. There was a song about it. Now all too often there is the cry of 'RAPE!' And the inevitable court case. As I say I'm talking generally and not specifically about the Evans case, but I am uneasy about the vilification that's taking place and I certainly see no reason why he should not return to his day job, - playing football.
Let all those who have not had a pissed-up one-night stand with a pissed-up bird, cast the first stone.
I'm now going to brace myself for the abuse! |  | | |  |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 16:11 - Oct 18 with 4557 views | jackb |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 14:29 - Oct 18 by londonlisa2001 |
The actual evidence that convicted him, of course, was the testimony of him and his mate which described activities that are classed in law as rape. Something that the rape crisis centre have spoken of publicly when his family tried to contact them to run a 'poor Ched' campaign with them - they stated that they were happy with the way that the law was currently framed and given Ched Evans' own testimony (in conjunction with that of his mate) made him guilty under that law they doubted they would find any mutual ground. (His family are now spinning that as well of course, into a 'we wanted to work with them and they never contacted us about it' nonsense).
To be honest, as a woman this thread is sickening.We've had phrases such as 'up for it', 'fair game', intimations that some men believe it's OK to have sex with a woman if she's too drunk to be able to say no in a way that they find acceptable, too drunk to resist is fine - go for it, saying yes to one means saying yes to mates, filming it all is OK.
It's actually disgusting. I don't expect much from people that are so thick that they have posted the girl's name on this thread (it is illegal to do so you creep) and I can't say I'm surprised by the opinion of Mr Enlightened with his 'objectively it's not rape' (once we got past the double negatives) - no you moron, objectively it is rape since the evidence of the defendants themselves described rape and that is why he was convicted - the girl didn't say anything, but I am genuinely surprised that in 2014 there are so many men that believe this sort of behaviour is anything other than (a) illegal and (b) even leaving the law aside, utterly repugnant.
I see that we've now even strayed into 'she made money from it all' - how exactly? All of the newspapers said that at no time did she attempt to sell her story, she never brought a civil case and you don't make money from the criminal prosecution.
It sums up exactly what 'poor Ched' is about in the way that he and him scummy family have behaved in the hours since he was out. No remorse, no embarrassment, no hint of guilt that they have, through their constant smear campaign against the girl, forced her to moved away from her home and change her identity. But then I suppose that they wee too busy to feel any of those things since they were spending their time ordering a bouncy castle.
Thank God for the many men on here who do realise that rape is an appalling crime (and don't spend time trying to redefine rape to something they find acceptable). |
Lisa, as a man, it's just as sickening! |  | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 16:12 - Oct 18 with 4556 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 16:08 - Oct 18 by jackonicko |
In certain circles, you can combine both. The lucky bast*rds. |
Shaky of the Bailey's having a party, bring your vodka and your charlie...
and please God a better choice of music than that crap he posts on here most of the time ! |  | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 16:15 - Oct 18 with 4551 views | Shaky |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 16:02 - Oct 18 by Spratty |
OK so setting aside the getaway vehicle (which simplifies matters)
Are you denying that based on your own logic
it is indeed objectively NOT TRUE that HE DID NOT RAPE HER
(thus making the whole basis of his website objectively false by your logic)
I will give you a minute to compute the negatives |
Final time Spratts:
(1) IT is not a fact that Evans raped this girl
(2) He could still have done so, but there is insufficient information available to reach that conclusion.
Now since you for some curious reason persist in your desire to obfuscate and muddy the obvious meaning in plain f*cking English, your're on your own. I have had enough of your tedious nonsense. |  |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 16:15 - Oct 18 with 4547 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 16:11 - Oct 18 by jackb |
Lisa, as a man, it's just as sickening! |
no I realise that and I didn't mean to infer otherwise to be honest.
The majority of men I'm sure find it appalling - I'm just saddened that reading this thread it's not quite as much of a majority as I would have hoped. | | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 16:20 - Oct 18 with 4529 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 16:15 - Oct 18 by Shaky |
Final time Spratts:
(1) IT is not a fact that Evans raped this girl
(2) He could still have done so, but there is insufficient information available to reach that conclusion.
Now since you for some curious reason persist in your desire to obfuscate and muddy the obvious meaning in plain f*cking English, your're on your own. I have had enough of your tedious nonsense. |
oh for God's sake Shaky. If there was insufficient information available to reach the conclusion that he raped the girl then the jury would not have found him guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Insufficient information would have led to an acquittal.
And it was your post that used the double negatives in the first place hence the response. | | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 16:36 - Oct 18 with 4492 views | Shaky |
According to your favourite source Wikipedia here is the statutory definition of rape:
1-(1) A person (A) commits an offence [of rape] if–
(a) he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,
(b) B does not consent to the penetration, and
(c) A does not reasonably believe that B consents.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_English_law
There are simply no facts whatsoever to support the requirement of (b) and (c), and I am actually somewhat shocked that the court could have found this guy guilty beyond any reasonable doubt.
However, as I mentioned earlier, I have a strong suspicion this is due in part to a strongly provincial outlook on the part of the court. | |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 16:37 - Oct 18 with 4487 views | reddythered |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 16:20 - Oct 18 by londonlisa2001 |
oh for God's sake Shaky. If there was insufficient information available to reach the conclusion that he raped the girl then the jury would not have found him guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Insufficient information would have led to an acquittal.
And it was your post that used the double negatives in the first place hence the response. |
Ched Evans got into the room by giving a false name to reception in order to obtain a key. Have to wonder why the need for the deception or, you know, just knock on the door.
His sister and girlfriend are odious pieces of work. They have financial motivation to clear Ched's name, so that his earning potential increases. | |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 16:41 - Oct 18 with 4478 views | Spratty |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 16:15 - Oct 18 by Shaky |
Final time Spratts:
(1) IT is not a fact that Evans raped this girl
(2) He could still have done so, but there is insufficient information available to reach that conclusion.
Now since you for some curious reason persist in your desire to obfuscate and muddy the obvious meaning in plain f*cking English, your're on your own. I have had enough of your tedious nonsense. |
Ah Shakes why didn't you say so. Instead of all that objective truth crap you brought up
(1) It is very far from a fact he did not rape this girl
(2) He may not have done so but his actions, the situation, and independent evidence were so damning - the jury concluded from the evidence presented that he had (regardless of the girl herself having no input in regards to what happened during the significant time). The judge was content with the verdict and appeal was thrown out.
Now it is not a fact I cannot walk through a solid! wall - in fact in this case there is a lot of evidence to the contrary - but still I keep bumping my nose. |  | | |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 16:58 - Oct 18 with 4450 views | perchrockjack |
It may be inappropriate for us to comment in so much detail unless we were at the trial.
Frankly, I'm not sure what it is about men that makes us act this way.
We ve some great people on here but some some pretty base ones too.
As for the jerk ...if she's up for it, he simply needs a shoeing and he s obviously not a father of a daughter | |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 17:13 - Oct 18 with 4431 views | Shaky |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 16:58 - Oct 18 by perchrockjack |
It may be inappropriate for us to comment in so much detail unless we were at the trial.
Frankly, I'm not sure what it is about men that makes us act this way.
We ve some great people on here but some some pretty base ones too.
As for the jerk ...if she's up for it, he simply needs a shoeing and he s obviously not a father of a daughter |
Who the f*ck are you referring to in your last sentence here, Perch? | |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 17:30 - Oct 18 with 4396 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 16:36 - Oct 18 by Shaky |
According to your favourite source Wikipedia here is the statutory definition of rape:
1-(1) A person (A) commits an offence [of rape] if–
(a) he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,
(b) B does not consent to the penetration, and
(c) A does not reasonably believe that B consents.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_English_law
There are simply no facts whatsoever to support the requirement of (b) and (c), and I am actually somewhat shocked that the court could have found this guy guilty beyond any reasonable doubt.
However, as I mentioned earlier, I have a strong suspicion this is due in part to a strongly provincial outlook on the part of the court. |
well we can all simply breathe a collective sigh of relief that the court doesn't give one flying crap what you think then can't we.
I'm presuming you also think the appeal process was also handled by people with a 'strongly provincial outlook'.
An alternative, of course, is that both the 'court' and the appeals process were filled with people with a far better developed and more sophisticated understanding of the word consent than you appear to have. | | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 17:32 - Oct 18 with 4387 views | monmouth |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 17:30 - Oct 18 by londonlisa2001 |
well we can all simply breathe a collective sigh of relief that the court doesn't give one flying crap what you think then can't we.
I'm presuming you also think the appeal process was also handled by people with a 'strongly provincial outlook'.
An alternative, of course, is that both the 'court' and the appeals process were filled with people with a far better developed and more sophisticated understanding of the word consent than you appear to have. |
Pack it in Lisa. Don't you know how important Shaky is? |  |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 17:35 - Oct 18 with 4374 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 17:32 - Oct 18 by monmouth |
Pack it in Lisa. Don't you know how important Shaky is? |
lol.
I know - I'm feeling positively provincial now to be honest. | | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 18:20 - Oct 18 with 4328 views | jackonicko |
I thought that Shaky had just met the Wolf of Wall Street. I didn't realise he actually is the Wolf of Wall Street.
Presumably he pulled his capital out of the city when he had to spend some time in a federal penitentiary following a Judge's, er, opinion on securities fraud. |  | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 20:34 - Oct 18 with 4245 views | perchrockjack |
Relax shaky, not uou .ok | |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 09:59 - Oct 19 with 4119 views | raynor94 |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 20:34 - Oct 18 by perchrockjack |
Relax shaky, not uou .ok |
No, it was chief, and I thoroughly agree with you perch, a despicable thing to post! |  |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:29 - Oct 19 with 4094 views | Chief |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 09:59 - Oct 19 by raynor94 |
No, it was chief, and I thoroughly agree with you perch, a despicable thing to post! |
What did I say!? |  |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:49 - Oct 19 with 4076 views | raynor94 |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:29 - Oct 19 by Chief |
What did I say!? |
She's fair game if she's up for it! how could you forget  | |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 11:46 - Oct 19 with 4026 views | swanny |
I hope they double his sentence an haul him back inside. |  |
| 'Sorry, your password must contain a capital letter, two numbers, a symbol, an inspiring message, a spell, a gang sign, a hieroglyph and the blood of a virgin" |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 12:00 - Oct 19 with 4007 views | Spratty |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 11:46 - Oct 19 by swanny |
I hope they double his sentence an haul him back inside. |
I hope fairness prevails
I was once relentlessly persecuted for expressing such an opinion on this website by the person who mischieviously pushed me into giving an opinion. Lets hope we live in more enlightened times now
However on the face of all I have read I agree with you
I wonder if the person in the street would have received this treatment - or is it just if you have the resources. | | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 12:17 - Oct 19 with 3992 views | swanny |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 12:00 - Oct 19 by Spratty |
I hope fairness prevails
I was once relentlessly persecuted for expressing such an opinion on this website by the person who mischieviously pushed me into giving an opinion. Lets hope we live in more enlightened times now
However on the face of all I have read I agree with you
I wonder if the person in the street would have received this treatment - or is it just if you have the resources. |
Let it go Spratty :D | |
| 'Sorry, your password must contain a capital letter, two numbers, a symbol, an inspiring message, a spell, a gang sign, a hieroglyph and the blood of a virgin" |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 12:31 - Oct 19 with 3975 views | Spratty |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 12:17 - Oct 19 by swanny |
Let it go Spratty :D |
Perhaps that advice needed to be given to another long long ago.
If we deplore abuse, we cannot pick and chose | | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 12:37 - Oct 19 with 3964 views | swanny |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 12:31 - Oct 19 by Spratty |
Perhaps that advice needed to be given to another long long ago.
If we deplore abuse, we cannot pick and chose |
...aaah - but you are pre supposing football supporters to be rational, whereas the most rational and thoughtful of individuals may be prone to one eyed blindness when it comes to football.
Doesn't make them bad people. | |
| 'Sorry, your password must contain a capital letter, two numbers, a symbol, an inspiring message, a spell, a gang sign, a hieroglyph and the blood of a virgin" |
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