| Trump v Zelensky 19:22 - Feb 28 with 16543 views | Drewster |
Absolutely bizarre scenes in the Oval Office today, staggering.
Trump and his VP clearly had a plan to ambush him, but to do it so publicly was bad form.
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| Trump v Zelensky on 14:13 - Mar 2 with 1503 views | Landshark |
| Trump v Zelensky on 03:40 - Mar 2 by strikerace |
I really shouldn't add to this thread but I am drinking. Let me just say that Americans don't understand the subtleties of UK politics, and the UK doesn't understand the subtleties of American politics. Trump won basically because Biden (or whoever was running the country now that the US knows he has pretty much out of it) was weak on illegal immigration, weak on crime, pushed around on international policy, hurt the US on inflation, and overly extreme on social issues (on the liberal side).
Pushing back on the international deals deemed unfair, and just taking advantage of the US, is what he views he was elected to do. He ran on ending the Israel/Hamas war and ending the Russia/Ukraine war. So when viewed from the majority that elected him he is doing what he promised.
I tried hard to not "promote" a side in what I wrote and keep it neutral. By the way, there are books now being released on how Biden's incapacity was hidden from the public by the political staff and media, and who was calling the shots behind the scene. I point this out to show I am not speculating and opinion. |
Biden was "weak on illegal immigration" but he actually deported more per month than Trump has done in his first month in office despite this bullshit ICE camera show. |  | | |
| Trump v Zelensky on 14:15 - Mar 2 with 1494 views | QPR_Nippon |
| Trump v Zelensky on 13:36 - Mar 2 by hubble |
Thanks for at least presenting a well thought out response, but I could absolutely level the same accusation that you make against me, back to you.
For example, you have ignored everything I've said about Joe and Hunter Biden in relation to Ukraine, and your assessment of Zelensky's corruption avoids a pretty damning case for the prosecution (the Pandora Papers was an investigation into criminal activity), which of course includes cronyism on a grand scale. And then there is the case of what's happened to the 100s of billions of dollars that has been pumped into Ukraine. So to state that I "massively overstate the case for corruption against Zelensky." is in itself (ironically), hyperbole.
As I said in my post, there's a lot more that I could say, but I think in the context of this being a football forum and in the interests of (relative) brevity, I have tried to present a condensed analysis based on some key observations.
I would also say that your argument is very one-sided: you've ignored Biden's role, and by omission (like so many others in this thread) made it appear it is only Trump who's been self-aggrandising (which goes without saying), but context is key here. The corruption and self-aggrandising that went on under Biden's watch was off the scale.
I will admit that even with the years of research I've done into geopolitics it's very hard to untangle what is a very complex web, but, in reference to this particular issue, here's a quick snapshot from the United States House Committee on Oversight and Reform report into Biden's activities:
"the Committee on Oversight and Accountability has accelerated its investigation of the Biden family’s domestic and international business practices to determine whether the Biden family has been targeted by foreign actors, President Biden is compromised, and our national security is threatened. Records obtained through the Committee’s subpoenas to date reveal that the Bidens and their associates have received over $20 million in payments from foreign entities.
4) Ukraine: Devon Archer joined the Burisma board of directors in spring of 2014 and was joined by Hunter Biden shortly thereafter. Hunter Biden joined the company as counsel, but after a meeting with Burisma owner Mykola Zlochevsky in Lake Como, Italy, was elevated to the board of directors in the spring of 2014. Both Biden and Archer were each paid $1 million per year for their positions on the board of directors. In December 2015, after a Burisma board of directors meeting, Zlochevsky and Hunter Biden “called D.C.” in the wake of mounting pressures the company was facing. Zlochevsky was later charged with bribing Ukrainian officials with $6 million in an attempt to delay or drop the investigation into his company. The total amount from Ukraine to the Biden family and their associates is $6.5 million."
Full article: https://oversight.house.gov/the-bidens-influence-peddling-timeline/
And that, as they say, is the tip of the iceberg.
Similarly, you talk about Trump's "criminal conviction for fraud, and how he tried to overturn the results of a democratic election", where the second part of that is contentious (as recent revelations have proved), and the first part ignores the context of far more heinous criminal activity in terms of his opponents, not least Hillary Clinton in funding the Steele dossier against Trump - something people in this thread still cite (unconsciously, I think) as if it were true, when it was completely fabricated. Indeed, the mainstream media were gung-ho for it when it was released as evidence of Trump being in Putin's pocket, but when it was exposed as a fraud, funded by Hillary Clinton, there was no retraction, in fact many continued to cite it as if it were true. Yet despite being a criminal attempt to smear her rival, all Clinton received for her crime was a fine:
"Hillary Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign and the Democratic National Committee have agreed to pay $113,000 to settle a Federal Election Commission investigation into whether they violated campaign finance law by misreporting spending on research that eventually became the infamous Steele dossier." https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-2022-midterm-elections-business-electi
Regarding the Media Lens article I quoted from, did you actually read it? The fact that they absolutely hate Trump, yet still concede that he has consistently pursued an anti-war policy (long before his presidency) and, furthermore, has called out the corruption of the US military/industrial complex and their endless pursuit of war for profit is very telling.
Look, we're clearly never going to agree, but I hope you will at least concede that the issues in this highly polarised debate deserve to be reconsidered without the highly charged emotion that characterises many of the posts here.
The bottom line for me is that peace must be reached as soon as possible. There are no winners in this conflict. Even if Putin does get to keep the majority Russian-populated areas of Ukraine that they have invaded, the price for that has been hideous: 800,000 Russians have already died in this conflict according to my sources. I agree that in an ideal world (one that sadly doesn't exist) then Putin would stop the war immediately, withdraw his troops and submit to a peace treaty. And I agree that Trump should be pushing far harder for that to happen. But in my analysis, Trump's negotiating stance is to play both sides up against the wall in order to get the fastest resolution. It's not nice, but that's realpolitik. |
Appreciate you taking the time to respond at length, and always happy to engage with alternative points of view in good faith (as long as that goes both ways). There is a lot I would like to respond to there and I will try at some point later - but it’s Sunday and for the next few hours I’m prioritizing time with the family! |  | | |
| Trump v Zelensky on 14:31 - Mar 2 with 1416 views | lightwaterhoop |
| Trump v Zelensky on 10:52 - Mar 2 by ted_hendrix |
It's strange to me that the leaders of Countries can sit In front of TV cameras and talk shyte but cant sit around a negotiating table and talk peace or as a minimum agree a ceasefire, of course nothing Is that easy/straight forward.
Ukraine need and ask for more military supplies, Russia have been using North Korean bullets and foot soldiers with the deaths of inexperienced North Korean soldiers Increasing daily.
Always the poor squaddie who never gets back home to his village, parents/Families. |
There is no evidence of soldiers from North Korea fighting in Ukraine even NATO have said as much.Many Russians from the east of the country are Oriental and from Korean heritage but none from North Korea have been captured.This story looks like yet another false and misleading one from the MSM. | | | |
| Trump v Zelensky on 14:43 - Mar 2 with 1397 views | Rsole |
Interesting to see the number of views for this compared to the views on the match thread.
I don’t know if that’s a reflection of the stage we are at in the season with bugger all left to play for and comment on or if it’s the sad state of affairs in world politics that justify so many comments on a football forum. |  |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| Trump v Zelensky on 15:19 - Mar 2 with 1322 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
| Trump v Zelensky on 14:31 - Mar 2 by lightwaterhoop |
There is no evidence of soldiers from North Korea fighting in Ukraine even NATO have said as much.Many Russians from the east of the country are Oriental and from Korean heritage but none from North Korea have been captured.This story looks like yet another false and misleading one from the MSM. |
Lie. They have been confirmed as fighting by South Korean Intelligence and they have been captured.
I hate these political threads as all the right wing nut jobs and apologists appear. | | | |
| Trump v Zelensky on 15:20 - Mar 2 with 1318 views | connell10 |
| Trump v Zelensky on 15:19 - Mar 2 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
Lie. They have been confirmed as fighting by South Korean Intelligence and they have been captured.
I hate these political threads as all the right wing nut jobs and apologists appear. |
Well all 4 of them  |  |
| AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!! | | Poll: | best number 10 ever? |
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| Trump v Zelensky on 15:32 - Mar 2 with 1284 views | strikerace |
| Trump v Zelensky on 14:13 - Mar 2 by Landshark |
Biden was "weak on illegal immigration" but he actually deported more per month than Trump has done in his first month in office despite this bullshit ICE camera show. |
That is because illegals have stopped trying to enter. Illegal Border Crossings are down 94% under Trump, which was the goal, not letting them in and then apprehending them. The new administration got rid of the "border crossing app", moved troops to the border, and they eliminated the ability to cross the border and then make an asylum claim (now you have to go to do it from the Mexico side). Data from the week ending Feb 25 shows only 285 illegal border crossing apprehensions instead of 4,800 from 1 year prior on the same week.
The result is stunning for people who wanted tighter borders, and even people who didn't. You find certain media outlets have completely stopped talking about this now. So looking at total apprehensions is the wrong way to judge, the point is to stop the flow. | | | |
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| Trump v Zelensky on 15:46 - Mar 2 with 1173 views | CLAREMAN1995 |
| Trump v Zelensky on 15:32 - Mar 2 by strikerace |
That is because illegals have stopped trying to enter. Illegal Border Crossings are down 94% under Trump, which was the goal, not letting them in and then apprehending them. The new administration got rid of the "border crossing app", moved troops to the border, and they eliminated the ability to cross the border and then make an asylum claim (now you have to go to do it from the Mexico side). Data from the week ending Feb 25 shows only 285 illegal border crossing apprehensions instead of 4,800 from 1 year prior on the same week.
The result is stunning for people who wanted tighter borders, and even people who didn't. You find certain media outlets have completely stopped talking about this now. So looking at total apprehensions is the wrong way to judge, the point is to stop the flow. |
Excellent post and like another poster mentioned living in America and living in England comparing news outlets we might as well be on mars.
The poster above who mentioned the ICE camera show has no clue how important and dangerous that job has become.Child rapists and murder suspects who should be locked down are turned loose by sanctuary cities who will not share the information which is against federal law and have to be found and caught again.
The border lockdown has slashed the drugs crossing into America and the flow of cash and weapons heading to Mexico another benefit of the lockdown
Trump is ruthless and on his last term he was given a mandate by the American people to end 2 wars, make America energy independant ,fix immigration, cut down crime, fix the ecomony and many more which he has not much hope of doing IMO .
He also survived 2 assination attemps so shouting down Zelensky wont bother him or his supporters get used to it I suspect |  | | |
| Trump v Zelensky on 16:10 - Mar 2 with 1093 views | strikerace |
| Trump v Zelensky on 15:46 - Mar 2 by CLAREMAN1995 |
Excellent post and like another poster mentioned living in America and living in England comparing news outlets we might as well be on mars.
The poster above who mentioned the ICE camera show has no clue how important and dangerous that job has become.Child rapists and murder suspects who should be locked down are turned loose by sanctuary cities who will not share the information which is against federal law and have to be found and caught again.
The border lockdown has slashed the drugs crossing into America and the flow of cash and weapons heading to Mexico another benefit of the lockdown
Trump is ruthless and on his last term he was given a mandate by the American people to end 2 wars, make America energy independant ,fix immigration, cut down crime, fix the ecomony and many more which he has not much hope of doing IMO .
He also survived 2 assination attemps so shouting down Zelensky wont bother him or his supporters get used to it I suspect |
Very true. One last point is that we were apprehending 4,800 a year ago, you know that about 3x that number were coming over and not getting caught. There was a flood every day. Also when they were apprehended, a lot of times they were just charged and let go, then expected to show up in court (which never happened). | | | |
| Trump v Zelensky on 16:12 - Mar 2 with 1084 views | Sonic_Hoop |
Undocumented migrants are less likely to commit crime than the natives. In December crossings were already down 81% on the previous year, due to actions taken by Mexico and Biden. Trump's contribution has been to effectively ban asylum for those at the southern border and send more border patrol staff. |  | | |
| Trump v Zelensky on 16:28 - Mar 2 with 1041 views | kensalriser |
| Trump v Zelensky on 15:46 - Mar 2 by CLAREMAN1995 |
Excellent post and like another poster mentioned living in America and living in England comparing news outlets we might as well be on mars.
The poster above who mentioned the ICE camera show has no clue how important and dangerous that job has become.Child rapists and murder suspects who should be locked down are turned loose by sanctuary cities who will not share the information which is against federal law and have to be found and caught again.
The border lockdown has slashed the drugs crossing into America and the flow of cash and weapons heading to Mexico another benefit of the lockdown
Trump is ruthless and on his last term he was given a mandate by the American people to end 2 wars, make America energy independant ,fix immigration, cut down crime, fix the ecomony and many more which he has not much hope of doing IMO .
He also survived 2 assination attemps so shouting down Zelensky wont bother him or his supporters get used to it I suspect |
Stop spreading bullshit disinformation. |  |
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| Trump v Zelensky on 16:39 - Mar 2 with 980 views | stowmarketrange |
| Trump v Zelensky on 15:46 - Mar 2 by CLAREMAN1995 |
Excellent post and like another poster mentioned living in America and living in England comparing news outlets we might as well be on mars.
The poster above who mentioned the ICE camera show has no clue how important and dangerous that job has become.Child rapists and murder suspects who should be locked down are turned loose by sanctuary cities who will not share the information which is against federal law and have to be found and caught again.
The border lockdown has slashed the drugs crossing into America and the flow of cash and weapons heading to Mexico another benefit of the lockdown
Trump is ruthless and on his last term he was given a mandate by the American people to end 2 wars, make America energy independant ,fix immigration, cut down crime, fix the ecomony and many more which he has not much hope of doing IMO .
He also survived 2 assination attemps so shouting down Zelensky wont bother him or his supporters get used to it I suspect |
You forgot to mention the wall that he was going to get the Mexicans to pay for.How is that coming along? |  | | |
| Trump v Zelensky on 16:46 - Mar 2 with 945 views | Landshark |
| Trump v Zelensky on 14:31 - Mar 2 by lightwaterhoop |
There is no evidence of soldiers from North Korea fighting in Ukraine even NATO have said as much.Many Russians from the east of the country are Oriental and from Korean heritage but none from North Korea have been captured.This story looks like yet another false and misleading one from the MSM. |
There's countless evidence of North Korean soldiers in Ukraine. If you're scared of the "MSM" feel free to look on YouTube or any of the Telegram channels documenting it. | | | |
| Trump v Zelensky on 18:34 - Mar 2 with 715 views | lassel |
| Trump v Zelensky on 15:32 - Mar 2 by strikerace |
That is because illegals have stopped trying to enter. Illegal Border Crossings are down 94% under Trump, which was the goal, not letting them in and then apprehending them. The new administration got rid of the "border crossing app", moved troops to the border, and they eliminated the ability to cross the border and then make an asylum claim (now you have to go to do it from the Mexico side). Data from the week ending Feb 25 shows only 285 illegal border crossing apprehensions instead of 4,800 from 1 year prior on the same week.
The result is stunning for people who wanted tighter borders, and even people who didn't. You find certain media outlets have completely stopped talking about this now. So looking at total apprehensions is the wrong way to judge, the point is to stop the flow. |
So let me get this straight.
MAGA insisted that Biden had wide open borders, nobody was ever caught, and those that were were just waved in with a Green Card and a bank account.
Now that undeniable fact shows Biden was deporting 50% more than Trump, apparently that’s because Biden was is it stopping so many at the border it was easy for him.
It would be embarrassing if it wasn’t just so pathetic.
Pretzels. | | | |
| Trump v Zelensky on 18:40 - Mar 2 with 686 views | Orthodox_Hoop |
| Trump v Zelensky on 15:19 - Mar 2 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
Lie. They have been confirmed as fighting by South Korean Intelligence and they have been captured.
I hate these political threads as all the right wing nut jobs and apologists appear. |
Another one resorting to name-calling.
I'm personally glad this isn't an echo chamber, and the majority of views have been presented in a respectful way. Accompanied by the perennial Downvote Brigade of course  |  | | |
| Trump v Zelensky on 23:34 - Mar 2 with 353 views | Bluce_Ree |
Man, I'm glad I've not got kids because this world is fked. Trump and President Musk are making everything so much worse and all the idiotic right wingers are just waiting to vote in Reform over here. |  |
| Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. He runs like a cheetah, his crosses couldn't be sweeter. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. |
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| Trump v Zelensky on 08:23 - Mar 3 with 108 views | numptydumpty |
I don't mind the odd political debate etc.
In my mind with Trump, it goes beyond politics and is frightening in the extreme, but I won't go there. Dangerous territory.
But I would say, who are these five or six posters on this thread that never ever post about QPR, but pipe up big time, when we have such threads as this.
Please, can you say why you follow Rangers, your favourite game you attended and your cheese of choice.
Otherwise, why are you on this forum. Your words are for more specific forums.
And I have no issues with regular posters on here, debating this issue.. |  |
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| Trump v Zelensky on 08:45 - Mar 3 with 40 views | TheChef |
All the world is a stage. |  |
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