| General Election Thread 17:46 - May 22 with 247589 views | loftboy |
This will be the first election that I have no idea who to vote for, will never vote Tory again after the lies during covid where my dad lost his life, don’t trust starmer, would never vote for a bunch of racists like reform , anyone give me a clue?
This post has been edited by an administrator |  |
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| General Election Thread on 14:01 - Jun 15 with 1478 views | Northernr |
| General Election Thread on 13:29 - Jun 15 by FDC |
Starmer has made it very clear that he will simply grow the economy. |
Fck me why didn’t we think of that before? |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 14:03 - Jun 15 with 1477 views | Lblock |
| General Election Thread on 13:18 - Jun 15 by hubble |
The fact you "know little of the Green councillor" is very telling. The middle class Greens seem to have their head in the sand around all sorts of elements of what the modern Green party stands for. I have posted a link to the video above. Do you think he's geniunely standing for Green issues? Try to remove your blinkers and have a think about what is going on here.
Regarding the "right of self-identification for trans and non-binary people" - you equally seem oblivious that this is actually threatening the very thing you say the Greens stand for in your very next sentence: "They also believe in standing up against misogyny and violence against women and girls."
The fact that you are apparently unable to see, or are unaware, of how so much of the trans movement is actually misogynistic (it's being driven by men, regardless of how they 'identify') and comes freighted with a huge amount of violence towards women. If you actually followed this, or even talked to women who feel threatened on so many levels by the trans movement, I doubt you'd be so blase about it. But since I assume you do care about women's rights, I suggest you look into this - again - if possible - without prejudice.
There is a very wide demographic of women (from hard-left lesbians to middle-class Daily Mail mums) who are all in agreement about the threat to women's rights, the encroachment of men (self-identifying men) into women and girls spaces, and far worse, including violence, threats and rape. With respect, I suggest you wise up on this issue.
Regarding climate change, I am not surprised you have rolled out the old 99% of scientists agree cliche and your reaction to anything that might divert from what I consider your blinkered cultism to be 'conspiratorial' as opposed to what it actually is, which is sceptical. But here's the interesting thing: I am absolutely for cleaning up the environment, for removing plastics at every level, for the end of toxic waste, for better farming practices and for so many other things you also believe in. But what I am not for is a completely pie in the sky idea that you can do anything significant by reducing the amount of CO2 that we produce. There NO proof this will do anything, because it is not provable. Our planet is not some kind of mechanical thing that you can fix by tweaking the carburettor, it is far, far more complex than that and all that the Net Zero policy really promises to do is to threaten our energy security (more on that below) and cost ordinary people a hell of a lot.
And then there's the issue that, again, you seem oblivious to how this has been entirely co-opted by the 'powers that would be' (who still love to travel to Davos in their private jets where they entertain Greta and the rest), because, well as I said... it's just another means to tax, control us, limit our freedom of movement.... and more... but as I say, you appear to oblivious to this. Because, well... 99% (it's nowhere near that consensus in reality, btw). And also just to add, climate change is entirely natural (there is no 'right or wrong climate, it just changes over time and has done forever, and there have been far more extreme changes, even in the recent past - look at what happened in the recent ice ages) and then it seems that you (and the whole CO2 lobby) are discounting the fact that the planet exists in its own homeostasis. It is supreme human arrogance to assume we can tweak it with net zero.
I would just like to go on to say how potentially dangerous I think the Green and Labour party energy policies are in terms of energy security, by looking at what's happened in New Zealand, where I shall quote from a recent article:
"Sir Keir Starmer is standing by a pledge to ban new drilling in the North Sea, despite New Zealand abandoning a similar policy amid blackout fears.
Labour’s manifesto, due out on Thursday, will feature a pledge to block all new licensing for oil and gas as one of its key energy policies.
The party “will not be issuing licences to explore new [oil and gas] fields as we accelerate to clean power”, a Labour spokesman confirmed on Tuesday.
It follows last weekend’s announcement that New Zealand’s government was lifting a ban on new oil and gas exploration.
The ban was announced by former prime minister Jacinda Ardern in 2018. “The world has moved on from fossil fuels,” Ardern proclaimed at the time.
New Zealand’s trailblazing policy, which was the first of its kind, became a key inspiration for the Labour Party’s own plan.
However, some in the party are now questioning the commitment after New Zealand resources minister Shane Jones last weekend denounced its own ban as a disaster – and revoked it.
It followed three years of rising energy prices that have left 110,000 households unable to warm their homes, 19pc of households struggling with bills and 40,000 of them having their power cut off due to unpaid bills, according to Consumer NZ.
Since April the situation has further deteriorated: Transpower, the equivalent of our National Grid, warned that the nation was at high risk of blackouts.
New Zealand’s shift to renewables meant it no longer had the generating power to keep the lights on during the cold spells that mark the Antipodean winter, said Transpower, as it begged consumers to cut their electricity consumption."
Full article: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/06/12/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-black [Post edited 15 Jun 13:24]
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More eloquently put than I ever could.
Always amazes me how many people have bought into the Great Environmental Lie hook, line and sinker.
Is the world climate changing?
Most certainly - it always has and always will. To think that we as the human race can actually control this is the stuff of madness and modern day Emperors new clothes. From this a self fulfilling movement and economic stitch up has spawned and now seems unstoppable.
I totally agree that we should be focusing on pollution with the absolute priority being stopping the disgraceful way our oceans and waterways are treated. That is achieved by reduction in single use plastics but also educating people in some pretty backwards laces about what they are doing as well as hitting big industry with a stick.
Use of the earths energy resources is now done in a more responsible way than it ever was and these JSO tw@ts are completely clueless if they think turning off the black tap will cure all ills.... far from it.
Thanks for your post(s) on this Hubble - brilliantly put and top reading. |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| General Election Thread on 14:51 - Jun 15 with 1409 views | FDC |
| General Election Thread on 14:03 - Jun 15 by Lblock |
More eloquently put than I ever could.
Always amazes me how many people have bought into the Great Environmental Lie hook, line and sinker.
Is the world climate changing?
Most certainly - it always has and always will. To think that we as the human race can actually control this is the stuff of madness and modern day Emperors new clothes. From this a self fulfilling movement and economic stitch up has spawned and now seems unstoppable.
I totally agree that we should be focusing on pollution with the absolute priority being stopping the disgraceful way our oceans and waterways are treated. That is achieved by reduction in single use plastics but also educating people in some pretty backwards laces about what they are doing as well as hitting big industry with a stick.
Use of the earths energy resources is now done in a more responsible way than it ever was and these JSO tw@ts are completely clueless if they think turning off the black tap will cure all ills.... far from it.
Thanks for your post(s) on this Hubble - brilliantly put and top reading. |
See for me, I haven't found the time to become a climate scientist, so I defer to the judgement of people who have on this one. |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 15:02 - Jun 15 with 1392 views | dmm |
| General Election Thread on 13:18 - Jun 15 by hubble |
The fact you "know little of the Green councillor" is very telling. The middle class Greens seem to have their head in the sand around all sorts of elements of what the modern Green party stands for. I have posted a link to the video above. Do you think he's geniunely standing for Green issues? Try to remove your blinkers and have a think about what is going on here.
Regarding the "right of self-identification for trans and non-binary people" - you equally seem oblivious that this is actually threatening the very thing you say the Greens stand for in your very next sentence: "They also believe in standing up against misogyny and violence against women and girls."
The fact that you are apparently unable to see, or are unaware, of how so much of the trans movement is actually misogynistic (it's being driven by men, regardless of how they 'identify') and comes freighted with a huge amount of violence towards women. If you actually followed this, or even talked to women who feel threatened on so many levels by the trans movement, I doubt you'd be so blase about it. But since I assume you do care about women's rights, I suggest you look into this - again - if possible - without prejudice.
There is a very wide demographic of women (from hard-left lesbians to middle-class Daily Mail mums) who are all in agreement about the threat to women's rights, the encroachment of men (self-identifying men) into women and girls spaces, and far worse, including violence, threats and rape. With respect, I suggest you wise up on this issue.
Regarding climate change, I am not surprised you have rolled out the old 99% of scientists agree cliche and your reaction to anything that might divert from what I consider your blinkered cultism to be 'conspiratorial' as opposed to what it actually is, which is sceptical. But here's the interesting thing: I am absolutely for cleaning up the environment, for removing plastics at every level, for the end of toxic waste, for better farming practices and for so many other things you also believe in. But what I am not for is a completely pie in the sky idea that you can do anything significant by reducing the amount of CO2 that we produce. There NO proof this will do anything, because it is not provable. Our planet is not some kind of mechanical thing that you can fix by tweaking the carburettor, it is far, far more complex than that and all that the Net Zero policy really promises to do is to threaten our energy security (more on that below) and cost ordinary people a hell of a lot.
And then there's the issue that, again, you seem oblivious to how this has been entirely co-opted by the 'powers that would be' (who still love to travel to Davos in their private jets where they entertain Greta and the rest), because, well as I said... it's just another means to tax, control us, limit our freedom of movement.... and more... but as I say, you appear to oblivious to this. Because, well... 99% (it's nowhere near that consensus in reality, btw). And also just to add, climate change is entirely natural (there is no 'right or wrong climate, it just changes over time and has done forever, and there have been far more extreme changes, even in the recent past - look at what happened in the recent ice ages) and then it seems that you (and the whole CO2 lobby) are discounting the fact that the planet exists in its own homeostasis. It is supreme human arrogance to assume we can tweak it with net zero.
I would just like to go on to say how potentially dangerous I think the Green and Labour party energy policies are in terms of energy security, by looking at what's happened in New Zealand, where I shall quote from a recent article:
"Sir Keir Starmer is standing by a pledge to ban new drilling in the North Sea, despite New Zealand abandoning a similar policy amid blackout fears.
Labour’s manifesto, due out on Thursday, will feature a pledge to block all new licensing for oil and gas as one of its key energy policies.
The party “will not be issuing licences to explore new [oil and gas] fields as we accelerate to clean power”, a Labour spokesman confirmed on Tuesday.
It follows last weekend’s announcement that New Zealand’s government was lifting a ban on new oil and gas exploration.
The ban was announced by former prime minister Jacinda Ardern in 2018. “The world has moved on from fossil fuels,” Ardern proclaimed at the time.
New Zealand’s trailblazing policy, which was the first of its kind, became a key inspiration for the Labour Party’s own plan.
However, some in the party are now questioning the commitment after New Zealand resources minister Shane Jones last weekend denounced its own ban as a disaster – and revoked it.
It followed three years of rising energy prices that have left 110,000 households unable to warm their homes, 19pc of households struggling with bills and 40,000 of them having their power cut off due to unpaid bills, according to Consumer NZ.
Since April the situation has further deteriorated: Transpower, the equivalent of our National Grid, warned that the nation was at high risk of blackouts.
New Zealand’s shift to renewables meant it no longer had the generating power to keep the lights on during the cold spells that mark the Antipodean winter, said Transpower, as it begged consumers to cut their electricity consumption."
Full article: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/06/12/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-black [Post edited 15 Jun 13:24]
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You repeatedly say I am oblivious to things, blinkered, need to wise up, etc. You must be so wise and omniscient to have such knowledge about me that it seems impertinent to carry this on but I will, and without resulting to scorn.
Do you know anything about, say, Tory Cllr Anthony Stevens - and that's without googling it?
Have you never heard of the many women working in transgender support services? Or come across the research showing over 80% say they are “not prejudiced at all” towards transgender people?
Can you tell me on what scientific research you base your assertions about climate change? I would be happy to provide the same for my assertions. And, can you provide the facts that support your statement that "it's just another means to tax, control us, limit our freedom of movement"?
It would appear New Zealand have messed up their attempts at energy transition. That doesn't mean you can't transition to renewable energy properly. PS I couldn't read your link as I don't have and wouldn't want a Telegraph account. |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 15:30 - Jun 15 with 1361 views | colinallcars |
Just saw Nigel Farage on the tellybox - he says if elected he will ban the synthesizer. Sorry Mr Starmer, that's my vote sorted. |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 16:12 - Jun 15 with 1276 views | kensalriser |
| General Election Thread on 13:18 - Jun 15 by hubble |
The fact you "know little of the Green councillor" is very telling. The middle class Greens seem to have their head in the sand around all sorts of elements of what the modern Green party stands for. I have posted a link to the video above. Do you think he's geniunely standing for Green issues? Try to remove your blinkers and have a think about what is going on here.
Regarding the "right of self-identification for trans and non-binary people" - you equally seem oblivious that this is actually threatening the very thing you say the Greens stand for in your very next sentence: "They also believe in standing up against misogyny and violence against women and girls."
The fact that you are apparently unable to see, or are unaware, of how so much of the trans movement is actually misogynistic (it's being driven by men, regardless of how they 'identify') and comes freighted with a huge amount of violence towards women. If you actually followed this, or even talked to women who feel threatened on so many levels by the trans movement, I doubt you'd be so blase about it. But since I assume you do care about women's rights, I suggest you look into this - again - if possible - without prejudice.
There is a very wide demographic of women (from hard-left lesbians to middle-class Daily Mail mums) who are all in agreement about the threat to women's rights, the encroachment of men (self-identifying men) into women and girls spaces, and far worse, including violence, threats and rape. With respect, I suggest you wise up on this issue.
Regarding climate change, I am not surprised you have rolled out the old 99% of scientists agree cliche and your reaction to anything that might divert from what I consider your blinkered cultism to be 'conspiratorial' as opposed to what it actually is, which is sceptical. But here's the interesting thing: I am absolutely for cleaning up the environment, for removing plastics at every level, for the end of toxic waste, for better farming practices and for so many other things you also believe in. But what I am not for is a completely pie in the sky idea that you can do anything significant by reducing the amount of CO2 that we produce. There NO proof this will do anything, because it is not provable. Our planet is not some kind of mechanical thing that you can fix by tweaking the carburettor, it is far, far more complex than that and all that the Net Zero policy really promises to do is to threaten our energy security (more on that below) and cost ordinary people a hell of a lot.
And then there's the issue that, again, you seem oblivious to how this has been entirely co-opted by the 'powers that would be' (who still love to travel to Davos in their private jets where they entertain Greta and the rest), because, well as I said... it's just another means to tax, control us, limit our freedom of movement.... and more... but as I say, you appear to oblivious to this. Because, well... 99% (it's nowhere near that consensus in reality, btw). And also just to add, climate change is entirely natural (there is no 'right or wrong climate, it just changes over time and has done forever, and there have been far more extreme changes, even in the recent past - look at what happened in the recent ice ages) and then it seems that you (and the whole CO2 lobby) are discounting the fact that the planet exists in its own homeostasis. It is supreme human arrogance to assume we can tweak it with net zero.
I would just like to go on to say how potentially dangerous I think the Green and Labour party energy policies are in terms of energy security, by looking at what's happened in New Zealand, where I shall quote from a recent article:
"Sir Keir Starmer is standing by a pledge to ban new drilling in the North Sea, despite New Zealand abandoning a similar policy amid blackout fears.
Labour’s manifesto, due out on Thursday, will feature a pledge to block all new licensing for oil and gas as one of its key energy policies.
The party “will not be issuing licences to explore new [oil and gas] fields as we accelerate to clean power”, a Labour spokesman confirmed on Tuesday.
It follows last weekend’s announcement that New Zealand’s government was lifting a ban on new oil and gas exploration.
The ban was announced by former prime minister Jacinda Ardern in 2018. “The world has moved on from fossil fuels,” Ardern proclaimed at the time.
New Zealand’s trailblazing policy, which was the first of its kind, became a key inspiration for the Labour Party’s own plan.
However, some in the party are now questioning the commitment after New Zealand resources minister Shane Jones last weekend denounced its own ban as a disaster – and revoked it.
It followed three years of rising energy prices that have left 110,000 households unable to warm their homes, 19pc of households struggling with bills and 40,000 of them having their power cut off due to unpaid bills, according to Consumer NZ.
Since April the situation has further deteriorated: Transpower, the equivalent of our National Grid, warned that the nation was at high risk of blackouts.
New Zealand’s shift to renewables meant it no longer had the generating power to keep the lights on during the cold spells that mark the Antipodean winter, said Transpower, as it begged consumers to cut their electricity consumption."
Full article: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/06/12/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-black [Post edited 15 Jun 13:24]
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Man, you really have gone down some crazy conspiracy rabbit holes and ended up a transphobe and climate change denier. I'm actually quite distressed by it, because the old Hubs was a really sound, intelligent bloke. |  |
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| General Election Thread on 16:18 - Jun 15 with 1255 views | Esox_Lucius |
| General Election Thread on 10:07 - Jun 15 by essextaxiboy |
I heard on the radio yesterday that the Greens would introduce a frequent flyer levy allowing you one levy free flight a year . The next one would would carry a levy of 25 quid and go up from there up to a maximum of a £585 levy on each flight . |
What a good idea. |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| General Election Thread on 16:28 - Jun 15 with 1224 views | derbyhoop |
| General Election Thread on 12:35 - Jun 15 by Northernr |
Me too. I think it's ridiculous the amount of flights there are between destinations in a small country like ours. It's scandalous that Premier league football clubs fly everywhere - Leicester fly for Norwich away for goodness sake.
But this comes back to something I said earlier. Things are complicated and nuanced, but people want to pretend there are easy answers. We don't want Johnny Foreigner - fine. But we also can't answer how we'd staff care homes, hospitals, hospitality, farms etc.
It's easy to say we'd ban domestic flights, heavily levy frequent flyers etc. But what does the alternative look like? The trains from London to Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen etc are slow, over crowded, unaffordable and unreliable. The planes are frequent, cheap, quick, and have capacity. If it's £30 on EasyJet or £130 on LNER, what you gonna do?
In France you can turn around and say we're banning domestic flights quite easily because they've invested and built a viable, affordable, fast alternative. Their rail system is absolutely unbelievable, and you can just glide around the whole country at super high speed, luxurious comfort, in a train with a fcking panoramic bar carriage in it. Frequent, cheap, fast, smooth. A beautiful experience. Here you cram yourself into an overcrowded, 30 year old, diesel Avanti Voyager service running under electric cables - when it runs at all - and it costs you £200+ to get to Preston.
You build the alternative infrastructure, then you hammer people who choose not to use it. As I understand it the Greens also oppose HS2.
So no internal flights, fine I'm with you, you've got my vote. But also we don't want HS2? That's not a serious policy from serious people.
I actually don't think I've heard anybody mention trains once in this election campaign really. And it's such an easy fcking win because they're so extortionate and so crap atm that you can't help but improve them whatever you do, apart from doing nothing of course.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Flights from Limoges, our local airport, to Paris have stopped. Because the train will get you between those 2 cities in 90 minutes.
I went to Lille for the Rugby World Cup. 4 trains there and 4 back. 4 of the journies were First Class and total cost was €160. All were clean, comfortable and on time.
Shows what you can do when you invest in trains. How's HS2 progressing? |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| General Election Thread on 16:30 - Jun 15 with 1215 views | hubble |
| General Election Thread on 16:12 - Jun 15 by kensalriser |
Man, you really have gone down some crazy conspiracy rabbit holes and ended up a transphobe and climate change denier. I'm actually quite distressed by it, because the old Hubs was a really sound, intelligent bloke. |
Thanks for completely misunderstanding me, P. More than happy to meet up in person to explain my stance. I assure you, I still am the same sound, (relatively) intelligent bloke that you knew!
And do you really think that I would go down crazy conspiracy rabbit holes like some blind idiot? Do you really think I have no idea what I'm doing?
And it's telling you have also labelled me a transphobe, when what I am in fact doing is standing up for women's rights over a dangerous minority male-driven movement. I have nothing whatsoever against people who want to act or dress like a different gender. But I do take issue when they want access to women and girls spaces and sports. Does your stance make you misogynist? Maybe it does. |  |
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| General Election Thread on 16:30 - Jun 15 with 1216 views | 222gers |
| General Election Thread on 16:28 - Jun 15 by derbyhoop |
Flights from Limoges, our local airport, to Paris have stopped. Because the train will get you between those 2 cities in 90 minutes.
I went to Lille for the Rugby World Cup. 4 trains there and 4 back. 4 of the journies were First Class and total cost was €160. All were clean, comfortable and on time.
Shows what you can do when you invest in trains. How's HS2 progressing? |
I think I'll still fly down the pub most days |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 16:32 - Jun 15 with 1214 views | loftboy |
| General Election Thread on 16:28 - Jun 15 by derbyhoop |
Flights from Limoges, our local airport, to Paris have stopped. Because the train will get you between those 2 cities in 90 minutes.
I went to Lille for the Rugby World Cup. 4 trains there and 4 back. 4 of the journies were First Class and total cost was €160. All were clean, comfortable and on time.
Shows what you can do when you invest in trains. How's HS2 progressing? |
I went from London to Cologne via Amsterdam last year, the ICE trains are fantastic as is the internal trains, unfortunately the trains in this country are probably decades away from European standards. | |
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| General Election Thread on 16:39 - Jun 15 with 1195 views | hubble |
| General Election Thread on 15:02 - Jun 15 by dmm |
You repeatedly say I am oblivious to things, blinkered, need to wise up, etc. You must be so wise and omniscient to have such knowledge about me that it seems impertinent to carry this on but I will, and without resulting to scorn.
Do you know anything about, say, Tory Cllr Anthony Stevens - and that's without googling it?
Have you never heard of the many women working in transgender support services? Or come across the research showing over 80% say they are “not prejudiced at all” towards transgender people?
Can you tell me on what scientific research you base your assertions about climate change? I would be happy to provide the same for my assertions. And, can you provide the facts that support your statement that "it's just another means to tax, control us, limit our freedom of movement"?
It would appear New Zealand have messed up their attempts at energy transition. That doesn't mean you can't transition to renewable energy properly. PS I couldn't read your link as I don't have and wouldn't want a Telegraph account. |
Okay, let's start with your final statement:
"PS I couldn't read your link as I don't have and wouldn't want a Telegraph account"
I posted the whole article anyway. But personally speaking, I don't take that attitude towards information; as far as I'm concerned, information is information, and I'm confident that I am capable of discerning bias. I also wouldn't limit my reading to media that reflects my opinions: indeed, I follow as diverse a range of views as possible (you can check my twitter feed), regularly reading, sources you probably would approve of, such as The Canary, Occupy London, George Monbiot, Yanis Varoufakis and Ash Sarkar. As well as the Guardian and the BBC.
Okay next:
"You repeatedly say I am oblivious to things, blinkered, need to wise up, etc. You must be so wise and omniscient to have such knowledge about me that it seems impertinent to carry this on but I will, and without resulting to scorn."
Well frankly David, your responses have led me to that conclusion, including those in this post.
"Do you know anything about, say, Tory Cllr Anthony Stevens - and that's without googling it?"
You're talking about the Cllr who was arrested for a so-called 'hate crime' for sharing a video that was originally tweeted by Britain First. I'm guessing you think this represents some kind of equivalence for you not knowing anything about how the Green party has been infiltrated by Islamists? I'm not sure how it does.
The fact that the actual video showed a police officer snatching a bible from a preacher who was accused of being 'Islamophobic' (the preacher was awarded damages for wrongful arrest) is perhaps irrelevant to you? Because it seems, from this and your comment about the Telegraph above, that the medium is more important to you than the message.
"Have you never heard of the many women working in transgender support services?"
What has that got to do with anything I've said? Does that bland truism mean that the huge swathe of women from all walks of life who feel threatened by transgender activism are wrong?? As the father to a daughter, godfather to a young woman, and close friends to many women, I am both aware of how they feel about what's going on and their anger and disbelief as to how women's rights are being subjugated to these political cause célèbres. Try following JK Rowling on twitter - without prejudice - and just discover for yourself how threatened women feel by the trans-activist movement, and how vehement the trans-activists are.
"Or come across the research showing over 80% say they are “not prejudiced at all” towards transgender people?"
What research? Where's your source? Is that meant to represent an argument?
"Can you tell me on what scientific research you base your assertions about climate change?"
Yes, I am basing my knowledge of climate change in paricular on my wide reading on the glacial and interglacial periods, including the 'Younger Dryas' - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas which shows far more rapid changes in climate than those that are happening today, and as yet, remain unexplained, even though sources such as NASA have attempted to, but strangely haven't satisfactorily linked to influences such as Milankovitch cycles https://science.nasa.gov/science-research/earth-science/milankovitch-orbital-cyc which nevertheless show that the factors inviolved in climate change are far more complex than just greenhouse gases... Gleissberg cycles, the still very arguable influence of solar radiation, the shift in the magnetic field, and much more that in my research has a far more profound effect than CO2 rises - and that also, if scientists cannot explain why the earth's climate heated and then cooled far faster 12,000 years ago than now, (when there was no human influence), why is there such certainty about today's beliefs? History has taught us that science has often been wrong, even when there are mass consensuses, and I remain sceptical. I don't care that people will have a scornful reaction to that. I think scepticism is a reasonable position.
At the same time whilst I fully accept that climate change is happening, I do not think 'Net Zero' is the answer, and furthermore, I think it has been co-opted to suit all sorts of agendas that have nothing to do with protecting our planet. If you find yourself in alliance with arch-globalists, does that lead you to question your beliefs as much as you question mine?
I could provide all sorts of links to the background of my long and wide research into this subject, but would you read them all? It would be far better for us to meet in person in one of your trips to my neck of the woods and I can explain myself better.
"I would be happy to provide the same for my assertions. And, can you provide the facts that support your statement that "it's just another means to tax, control us, limit our freedom of movement"?"
Yes, as above, I refer to the co-opting of the climate movement by global NGOs such as the WEF. If you want to know more, then read WEF chairman Klaus Schwab's 'Great Reset' and then think about the push towards 15-minute cities and the idea paraphrased as "you will own nothing and you will be happy". Google Noah Yuval Harari's involvement with the WEF and his speech about AI and how human lives are valueless.
There is a much bigger picture to all this, which, I would characterise as the rise of materialism that was spawned by the likes of such disparate bedfellows as Nietzsche and Marx, furthered by Marxist philosophy, the exponential levering of technology that gives humans unprecedented power and equivalent arrogance, and much more... that has led us to the current world situation which seems to me to be the most degraded and arrogant phase in human history, with little true knowledge or respect for the unfathomable mysteries of existence...
I repeat, I am fully onboard with common sense environmentalism - indeed, I would classify myself as an environmentalist, but I am not blindsided by political agendas that have subverted environmental causes for far more nefarious ends. IMO.
Interestingly, since I started posting my thoughts today, someone has desperately been trying to hack into my LFW account (18 times in fact). Clearly someone out there is so triggered by what I'm saying, they'd like to mess with my account. Perhaps it's the same person who consistently attacked me on RFI. | |
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| General Election Thread on 17:06 - Jun 15 with 1136 views | stevec |
| General Election Thread on 12:35 - Jun 15 by Northernr |
Me too. I think it's ridiculous the amount of flights there are between destinations in a small country like ours. It's scandalous that Premier league football clubs fly everywhere - Leicester fly for Norwich away for goodness sake.
But this comes back to something I said earlier. Things are complicated and nuanced, but people want to pretend there are easy answers. We don't want Johnny Foreigner - fine. But we also can't answer how we'd staff care homes, hospitals, hospitality, farms etc.
It's easy to say we'd ban domestic flights, heavily levy frequent flyers etc. But what does the alternative look like? The trains from London to Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen etc are slow, over crowded, unaffordable and unreliable. The planes are frequent, cheap, quick, and have capacity. If it's £30 on EasyJet or £130 on LNER, what you gonna do?
In France you can turn around and say we're banning domestic flights quite easily because they've invested and built a viable, affordable, fast alternative. Their rail system is absolutely unbelievable, and you can just glide around the whole country at super high speed, luxurious comfort, in a train with a fcking panoramic bar carriage in it. Frequent, cheap, fast, smooth. A beautiful experience. Here you cram yourself into an overcrowded, 30 year old, diesel Avanti Voyager service running under electric cables - when it runs at all - and it costs you £200+ to get to Preston.
You build the alternative infrastructure, then you hammer people who choose not to use it. As I understand it the Greens also oppose HS2.
So no internal flights, fine I'm with you, you've got my vote. But also we don't want HS2? That's not a serious policy from serious people.
I actually don't think I've heard anybody mention trains once in this election campaign really. And it's such an easy fcking win because they're so extortionate and so crap atm that you can't help but improve them whatever you do, apart from doing nothing of course.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
You’re totally right about the trains here, they are a disgrace.
Down to governments, the privatised rail companies, all manner of reasons.
However, despite their appalling record, it’s occasionally not all as it seems. During the second half of the last football season I was on the case of the outgoing MP for Epsom (better known as Chris Grayling, yes, I know) about the sub standard service they were providing, even for South West Trains. 4 train carriages on a weekend, packed to the rafters by my station and literal fights at following stations as they couldn’t get on the half hour service into London. It was a similar story on the way home after the game. Anyway, despite the to and fro, nothing much happened until an actual air conditioned 8 carriage turned up one saturday in April (we’d never seen an air conditioned train on this line, ever, so it was quite an exhilarating moment) so I thought the least I could do was text him, albeit in a sarcastic way, to thank him for his efforts. I did point out that the base of all the seats had a three inch deep layer of rust on all of them so clearly it’d been in the knackers yard for some time and asked where they’d got it from. Turned out it was a discard from a Bedfordshire line. Now admittedly, this is somewhat pathetic way to run a rail service so I bothered him a bit more. Apparently, there is actually a whole fleet of 10 carriage, brand new state of the art versions sitting in a sideline somewhere, and they have been for months, waiting to replace the decrepit fleet we have all been suffering but … they can’t get them on the track because the unions are refusing to sanction them, I know not why, but suspect it’s something to do with a guard and staffing.
Doesn’t make it any better but an insight into this fcked up country we live in. |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 17:24 - Jun 15 with 1992 views | Paddyhoops |
| General Election Thread on 16:12 - Jun 15 by kensalriser |
Man, you really have gone down some crazy conspiracy rabbit holes and ended up a transphobe and climate change denier. I'm actually quite distressed by it, because the old Hubs was a really sound, intelligent bloke. |
I’m all for a phased transition to clean energy. It will take time because I honestly think that sucking black shit out of the ground , burning it and putting it back into the atmosphere is not very good idea in the long term .
We’re seeing the effects already. |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 17:37 - Jun 15 with 1953 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| General Election Thread on 17:24 - Jun 15 by Paddyhoops |
I’m all for a phased transition to clean energy. It will take time because I honestly think that sucking black shit out of the ground , burning it and putting it back into the atmosphere is not very good idea in the long term .
We’re seeing the effects already. |
A lot of data saying it’s already too late, which is why a part of me doesn’t really give a fck who wins the election. |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 17:43 - Jun 15 with 1930 views | derbyhoop |
| General Election Thread on 14:01 - Jun 15 by Northernr |
Fck me why didn’t we think of that before? |
Truss did. Look where that got her.
It's an obvious, simplistic answer but even Starmer won't claim its going to be easy. UK growth has been anaemic for 16 years. | |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| General Election Thread on 18:19 - Jun 15 with 1858 views | dm97 |
Finding this election incredibly depressing as a younger voter.
There has been little to no discussion of the nuanced complex truths around immigration, environment, economic growth that directly affect my ability to live a life as my parents did in the 80s.
I can’t afford to get on the property ladder, can’t get married or have kids yet as I have no capital despite working a good job, can’t go to Europe freely whether to work or for leisure, spend 40% of my income on rent and the best I’m getting is “economic growth”? Bar the greens whose manifesto is pathetically wishful, every other party doesn’t care about u30s so Labour it is and purely hoping we get lucky. But the way our politics treats young voters is a joke.
And then who crops up to tell all in his great wisdom? The privately educated, commodities trading, millionaire people’s hero. Nigel Fing Farage is stood there telling me it’s because of people risking their lives in the channel? Or coming here with all their dependents (while they’re running the god damn NHS)?
Get in the bin and stay there.
One of the many many many cancers Brexit has imposed on this country is his/Johnson’s politics of sound bites and slogans, over serious policy discussions. Go back and watch YouTube clips of Major vs Blair, or Thatcher vs Callaghan, and look at difference in detail. I don’t agree with a lot of those people but you can see their policy offer. If I was 26 in Thatcher’s Britain I’d get what her offer to me was. This lot aren’t even talking to us.
Yes social media plays a part, as does the lessening quality of politicians and smart people choosing private anonymous jobs over Parliament. But the way political parties view us is absolutely in the bin after what those liars were able to do in 2016.
“Reform” “Change” “Green New Deal” are easy to repeat and don’t require any intellect to say. We need to take some of the blame and start asking our politicians to talk to us like adults not children, if we want to be given real choices at elections.
I don’t think they’ll speak to my generation until we hit that magic mark of middle age, but for those of you they do actually care about - do better, for your younger relatives at least. |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 18:21 - Jun 15 with 1857 views | Lblock |
| General Election Thread on 14:51 - Jun 15 by FDC |
See for me, I haven't found the time to become a climate scientist, so I defer to the judgement of people who have on this one. |
You’ll listen to the scientists that give the results you want
I’m not denying climate change but I just have to laugh at people who think we can change what good old Mother Nature wishes to do with it.
Maybe those damn cavemen in their 4x4’s and oil based products thought when they came out of the ice age what a bastard thing they’d done causing the tropical age and looked down off of their jet planes and wished they’d done things differently
I dunno | |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| General Election Thread on 18:44 - Jun 15 with 1782 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
| General Election Thread on 18:19 - Jun 15 by dm97 |
Finding this election incredibly depressing as a younger voter.
There has been little to no discussion of the nuanced complex truths around immigration, environment, economic growth that directly affect my ability to live a life as my parents did in the 80s.
I can’t afford to get on the property ladder, can’t get married or have kids yet as I have no capital despite working a good job, can’t go to Europe freely whether to work or for leisure, spend 40% of my income on rent and the best I’m getting is “economic growth”? Bar the greens whose manifesto is pathetically wishful, every other party doesn’t care about u30s so Labour it is and purely hoping we get lucky. But the way our politics treats young voters is a joke.
And then who crops up to tell all in his great wisdom? The privately educated, commodities trading, millionaire people’s hero. Nigel Fing Farage is stood there telling me it’s because of people risking their lives in the channel? Or coming here with all their dependents (while they’re running the god damn NHS)?
Get in the bin and stay there.
One of the many many many cancers Brexit has imposed on this country is his/Johnson’s politics of sound bites and slogans, over serious policy discussions. Go back and watch YouTube clips of Major vs Blair, or Thatcher vs Callaghan, and look at difference in detail. I don’t agree with a lot of those people but you can see their policy offer. If I was 26 in Thatcher’s Britain I’d get what her offer to me was. This lot aren’t even talking to us.
Yes social media plays a part, as does the lessening quality of politicians and smart people choosing private anonymous jobs over Parliament. But the way political parties view us is absolutely in the bin after what those liars were able to do in 2016.
“Reform” “Change” “Green New Deal” are easy to repeat and don’t require any intellect to say. We need to take some of the blame and start asking our politicians to talk to us like adults not children, if we want to be given real choices at elections.
I don’t think they’ll speak to my generation until we hit that magic mark of middle age, but for those of you they do actually care about - do better, for your younger relatives at least. |
Here is an adult response: Your fcked! | | | |
| General Election Thread on 19:31 - Jun 15 with 1697 views | FDC |
| General Election Thread on 18:21 - Jun 15 by Lblock |
You’ll listen to the scientists that give the results you want
I’m not denying climate change but I just have to laugh at people who think we can change what good old Mother Nature wishes to do with it.
Maybe those damn cavemen in their 4x4’s and oil based products thought when they came out of the ice age what a bastard thing they’d done causing the tropical age and looked down off of their jet planes and wished they’d done things differently
I dunno |
As a dad with two young girls I assure it's not the results I want. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 20:04 - Jun 15 with 1652 views | essextaxiboy |
| General Election Thread on 19:31 - Jun 15 by FDC |
As a dad with two young girls I assure it's not the results I want. |
"I’m not denying climate change but I just have to laugh at people who think we can change what good old Mother Nature wishes to do with it."
I agree with this , Nature is far more powerful than mankind . It will either adapt as it has always done or it will protect itself by wiping us out . I dont really think we can change its course . |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 20:12 - Jun 15 with 1638 views | loftupper |
| General Election Thread on 20:04 - Jun 15 by essextaxiboy |
"I’m not denying climate change but I just have to laugh at people who think we can change what good old Mother Nature wishes to do with it."
I agree with this , Nature is far more powerful than mankind . It will either adapt as it has always done or it will protect itself by wiping us out . I dont really think we can change its course . |
This is half the problem, there is a lack of ambition, vision and smarts in the general population and we get the politicians we deserve based on that. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 20:14 - Jun 15 with 1636 views | stevec |
| General Election Thread on 19:31 - Jun 15 by FDC |
As a dad with two young girls I assure it's not the results I want. |
Please don’t let fear rule your life or your two daughters lives.
It concerns me that so many younger people are constantly being taught fear. Reject it.
Look at this way. If an adult was purposely scaring your kids in the street your first thought would be to smack them in the mouth. And yet TV programmes, journalists, school teachers are actually doing this with climate change day in and day out and people just accept it.
Take your kids to places you went when you were younger and point out that nothing has changed, it’s still the same landscape, just as it always was, they have nothing to worry about.
Go through your life with climate change, has anything materially changed that directly affects you or your families life. Is Loftus Road affected, getting to work, days out with the family, going on holiday? Have any of our coastal resorts disappeared into the sea? None of these things have happened or show any sign of happening.
If anyone acts to scare you, you can be fairly sure there’s an ulterior motive. As they say, ‘there is nothing to fear but fear itself’. We must all act to save our kids from this tyranny. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 20:16 - Jun 15 with 1635 views | essextaxiboy |
| General Election Thread on 20:14 - Jun 15 by stevec |
Please don’t let fear rule your life or your two daughters lives.
It concerns me that so many younger people are constantly being taught fear. Reject it.
Look at this way. If an adult was purposely scaring your kids in the street your first thought would be to smack them in the mouth. And yet TV programmes, journalists, school teachers are actually doing this with climate change day in and day out and people just accept it.
Take your kids to places you went when you were younger and point out that nothing has changed, it’s still the same landscape, just as it always was, they have nothing to worry about.
Go through your life with climate change, has anything materially changed that directly affects you or your families life. Is Loftus Road affected, getting to work, days out with the family, going on holiday? Have any of our coastal resorts disappeared into the sea? None of these things have happened or show any sign of happening.
If anyone acts to scare you, you can be fairly sure there’s an ulterior motive. As they say, ‘there is nothing to fear but fear itself’. We must all act to save our kids from this tyranny. |
Actually I had a few days in Norfolk last week and some of their coastal resorts have in fact fallen in to the sea . | | | |
| General Election Thread on 20:44 - Jun 15 with 1578 views | QPR_Jim |
| General Election Thread on 20:14 - Jun 15 by stevec |
Please don’t let fear rule your life or your two daughters lives.
It concerns me that so many younger people are constantly being taught fear. Reject it.
Look at this way. If an adult was purposely scaring your kids in the street your first thought would be to smack them in the mouth. And yet TV programmes, journalists, school teachers are actually doing this with climate change day in and day out and people just accept it.
Take your kids to places you went when you were younger and point out that nothing has changed, it’s still the same landscape, just as it always was, they have nothing to worry about.
Go through your life with climate change, has anything materially changed that directly affects you or your families life. Is Loftus Road affected, getting to work, days out with the family, going on holiday? Have any of our coastal resorts disappeared into the sea? None of these things have happened or show any sign of happening.
If anyone acts to scare you, you can be fairly sure there’s an ulterior motive. As they say, ‘there is nothing to fear but fear itself’. We must all act to save our kids from this tyranny. |
We can actually have successful vineyards in Kent now, unheard of when I was a kid.
As Essex points out, the environment will change naturally including things like coastal erosion that causes cliffs to collapse. As humans once we're comfortable with the environment we don't want it to change. So we put measures in place to stop or slow things like coastal defences with erosion. As a society coastal defences don't get the same negative view as reducing carbon emissions.
I was slightly confused by Essex when he says mother nature will act to protect itself by wiping us out. If we're not the source of the issue then why would mother nature wipe is out?
To your main point about fear, should we also reject the fear promoted around immigration? Seems to be the source of all our problems according to some, I would call that acting to scare us, don't you agree? |  | | |
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