| Countdown to Sunday. 23:07 - Jul 8 with 3607 views | Mick_S |
It’s like looking forward to your holiday when you were seven. I have racking to assemble, and because I’m feckin’ useless at that sort of thing, it will take around 3 days to complete. Dog needs walking at least 6 times if I can fit it in. Grass is cut, that’s a bugger because there’s a few minutes there. Shopping being delivered so we can’t waste an hour or two there. Can’t start drinking yet.
Any tips? |  |
| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| Countdown to Sunday. on 18:01 - Jul 9 with 630 views | 80s_Boy |
| Countdown to Sunday. on 16:30 - Jul 9 by Antti_Heinola |
I think it's irrelevant what other countries might or might not do and it's irrelevant whether you personally are offended or not.
I'd love to know exactly what aspects of football the 'middle classes' (whatever that means), specifically, changed. While I agree to some degree atmospheres are different now, I'm not sure that's down to 'the middle classes', and I also, having attended football since the 70s, don't think it's particularly worse. Safe standing, when it comes, will help, of course, but that was not exactly something changed by the middle classes after 1996.
Stadiums needed updating - if you can't see that from the various disasters of the 80s you must be blind. I was a kid growing up in the 70s and 80s and experienced some fantastic atmospheres - and also some absolutely horrible ones - in both senses of dull/quiet and, far worse, intimidating and violent. If you're pining for those days, each to their own, but I'm delighted that the times I had to run, as a child, from yobs, do not really occur today. That's not about effing class, either, it's about decent people and thugs. This lazy stereotyping of 'the middle classes' in your posts is a bit tiresome tbh.
I never said people didn't have the 'right' to boo. But it's disrespectful, and embarrassing, and pathetic. That's my 'freedom' to believe that, while accepting not 'everyone' will be offended by it.
I remember I think it was Venables was the first manager to try and stop it and appealed to the very reasonable idea that booing the anthem only serves to motivate the opposition. Still, it's all 'banter' isn't it? It's always just good banter. Just doesn;t seem a lot to ask to put aside the banter for 45 seconds at the start of a match, that's all. Maybe I'm wrong. Or just too 'middle class'. |
There was definitely a need to improve stadiums. I was (un)lucky enough to stand in the corner pen of the away end at The Dell (how modern did Loftus Road feel up to about 93/94?) and although I will always argue that the trouble in the 1980s was, and has been, exaggerated to the extent that those who weren't fans at the time have visions of it being similar to the Wild West, there was urgent need to address it: all seater stadiums wasn't probably the solution but that's a discussion for another day.
I think it's important to restate that the post 96 middle class affected football directly and indirectly. Directly because they didn't absorb football in the same manner as long term fans and as their number increased it severely affected atmospheres. Also, they brought with them - and this is where I say they are/were intolerant - chattering class ideas about working class fans, the working class in general too, and condemned aspects of football culture they couldn't relate to leading to chairman - and authorities - who loved the smell of this new money to quickly 'take their side' on what was acceptable to sing, what was acceptable to say and a whole array of things: for example we had a short lived chant in The Loft in 97/98 - not big, not clever but just one of those things - which went 'F off, you Northern c' s'. The club, at a fans representation meeting said that they were getting too many complaints from box holders embarrassed in front of their clients and it had to stop.
Indirectly the middle class post 96 changed football because, as above, clubs realised that they could make more money so prices went up despite English football being richer than ever before, and broadsheets who had scantily covered the sport before started to take more of an interest and, indirectly, this led to the FA and FL seeking approval from them over what football culture should be. The broadsheets also changed how football in this country was spoken about, wrote about and thought about and not tactically by the way.
The big bang for everything I don't like about modern football is post 96 and the influx of non traditional folk in grounds. |  | | |
| Countdown to Sunday. on 18:15 - Jul 9 with 602 views | Boston |
| Countdown to Sunday. on 12:53 - Jul 9 by terryb |
Football is for the working classes?
The roots are very much with the upper class & public schools, thus all the early winners of the FA Cup came from that class. I will certainly agree that this changed with the advent of professionalism & brought about the saying "Football is for gentlemen but played by hooligans & Rugby is for hooligans & played by gentlemen".
The middle class, at least the ones I know, have always been footballing people & not interested in Rugby Union. It was very much the culture of the youth of the middle class in the '60's to combine football with fighting on the terraces. |
True Terry. The anonymity of a pushing, shoving, fighting crowd at football had many a middle class malcontent among them. I was quite surprised on a couple of occasions to discover the backgrounds of some of the lads I’d been hanging around with. That said, most were working class fellahs and, unlike 80’s Boy, not yet acquainted with show tunes. |  |
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| Countdown to Sunday. on 18:25 - Jul 9 with 587 views | OregonQPR |
| Countdown to Sunday. on 16:30 - Jul 9 by Antti_Heinola |
I think it's irrelevant what other countries might or might not do and it's irrelevant whether you personally are offended or not.
I'd love to know exactly what aspects of football the 'middle classes' (whatever that means), specifically, changed. While I agree to some degree atmospheres are different now, I'm not sure that's down to 'the middle classes', and I also, having attended football since the 70s, don't think it's particularly worse. Safe standing, when it comes, will help, of course, but that was not exactly something changed by the middle classes after 1996.
Stadiums needed updating - if you can't see that from the various disasters of the 80s you must be blind. I was a kid growing up in the 70s and 80s and experienced some fantastic atmospheres - and also some absolutely horrible ones - in both senses of dull/quiet and, far worse, intimidating and violent. If you're pining for those days, each to their own, but I'm delighted that the times I had to run, as a child, from yobs, do not really occur today. That's not about effing class, either, it's about decent people and thugs. This lazy stereotyping of 'the middle classes' in your posts is a bit tiresome tbh.
I never said people didn't have the 'right' to boo. But it's disrespectful, and embarrassing, and pathetic. That's my 'freedom' to believe that, while accepting not 'everyone' will be offended by it.
I remember I think it was Venables was the first manager to try and stop it and appealed to the very reasonable idea that booing the anthem only serves to motivate the opposition. Still, it's all 'banter' isn't it? It's always just good banter. Just doesn;t seem a lot to ask to put aside the banter for 45 seconds at the start of a match, that's all. Maybe I'm wrong. Or just too 'middle class'. |
The thing that is most middle class about football is the overpriced cost to attend even at lower levels of the game.
How many working class kids can turn up every fortnight and pay at the gate, find the place they want to stand and drink in the excitement of being at the game.
From the age of 10 (Everton at home 1-1, Gillard equalizer) I was able to travel from the Elephant & Castle without being ripped off and was joined by other kids from council estates who had access to the game.
On my infrequent visits to HQ now I am depressed by the low number of youngsters who attend and the sterile atmosphere which is depressingly augmented by some person shouting over the PA system in an attempt to create a faux atmosphere in much the same way they do over here. Another thing in the long list of why I can’t wait to leave here in the next few years. | | | |
| Countdown to Sunday. on 18:27 - Jul 9 with 579 views | 80s_Boy |
| Countdown to Sunday. on 18:15 - Jul 9 by Boston |
True Terry. The anonymity of a pushing, shoving, fighting crowd at football had many a middle class malcontent among them. I was quite surprised on a couple of occasions to discover the backgrounds of some of the lads I’d been hanging around with. That said, most were working class fellahs and, unlike 80’s Boy, not yet acquainted with show tunes. |
Oi! For the record I have zero interest in musical theatre!
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| Countdown to Sunday. on 18:36 - Jul 9 with 563 views | BklynRanger |
| Countdown to Sunday. on 18:25 - Jul 9 by OregonQPR |
The thing that is most middle class about football is the overpriced cost to attend even at lower levels of the game.
How many working class kids can turn up every fortnight and pay at the gate, find the place they want to stand and drink in the excitement of being at the game.
From the age of 10 (Everton at home 1-1, Gillard equalizer) I was able to travel from the Elephant & Castle without being ripped off and was joined by other kids from council estates who had access to the game.
On my infrequent visits to HQ now I am depressed by the low number of youngsters who attend and the sterile atmosphere which is depressingly augmented by some person shouting over the PA system in an attempt to create a faux atmosphere in much the same way they do over here. Another thing in the long list of why I can’t wait to leave here in the next few years. |
Leave where, Oregon or London?
I'd wrestle a grizzly to live in Oregon at the minute, but then again I am bored as shit with wfh and have never actually been to Oregon. Portland looks like the modern day hipster parts of Brooklyn to me which isn't a good thing, but I could be wrong. |  | | |
| Countdown to Sunday. on 19:14 - Jul 9 with 533 views | HantsR |
| Countdown to Sunday. on 16:30 - Jul 9 by Antti_Heinola |
I think it's irrelevant what other countries might or might not do and it's irrelevant whether you personally are offended or not.
I'd love to know exactly what aspects of football the 'middle classes' (whatever that means), specifically, changed. While I agree to some degree atmospheres are different now, I'm not sure that's down to 'the middle classes', and I also, having attended football since the 70s, don't think it's particularly worse. Safe standing, when it comes, will help, of course, but that was not exactly something changed by the middle classes after 1996.
Stadiums needed updating - if you can't see that from the various disasters of the 80s you must be blind. I was a kid growing up in the 70s and 80s and experienced some fantastic atmospheres - and also some absolutely horrible ones - in both senses of dull/quiet and, far worse, intimidating and violent. If you're pining for those days, each to their own, but I'm delighted that the times I had to run, as a child, from yobs, do not really occur today. That's not about effing class, either, it's about decent people and thugs. This lazy stereotyping of 'the middle classes' in your posts is a bit tiresome tbh.
I never said people didn't have the 'right' to boo. But it's disrespectful, and embarrassing, and pathetic. That's my 'freedom' to believe that, while accepting not 'everyone' will be offended by it.
I remember I think it was Venables was the first manager to try and stop it and appealed to the very reasonable idea that booing the anthem only serves to motivate the opposition. Still, it's all 'banter' isn't it? It's always just good banter. Just doesn;t seem a lot to ask to put aside the banter for 45 seconds at the start of a match, that's all. Maybe I'm wrong. Or just too 'middle class'. |
Whenever I see a reference to 'middle classes' and football hooliganism, I think of that great 1989 TV film, 'The Firm' with Gary Oldman. He played a married, respectable (?hmm) Estate Agent with a baby son ( wife was played by Lesley Manville btw), but was known as 'Bexy' the leader of a hooligan football-linked firm known as the ICC (Inter City Crew). |  | | |
| Countdown to Sunday. on 19:24 - Jul 9 with 517 views | kensalriser |
The whole class thing is a bit overstated and more than a bit boring. I imagine quite a lot of the post 96 middle class crowds were actually formerly working class people, just a little older and a little more affluent who felt comfortable taking their kids to games without the fear of being caught up in a crowd of rucking hooligans. |  |
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| Countdown to Sunday. on 19:37 - Jul 9 with 495 views | DavieQPR |
The price of a pint in 1966 was 10p, the equivalent of about £1.75 now. Can you imagine how many pints would be sunk/spilt in that was the price today. |  | | |
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| Countdown to Sunday. on 20:13 - Jul 9 with 441 views | Mick_S |
| Countdown to Sunday. on 11:21 - Jul 9 by francisbowles |
Booing the National Anthems is a tradition that in 2021 really needs to stop.
As a nation, we have few friends around the world. We should be doing what we can to repair and enhance our reputation and booing anthems or the players beliefs and choices is going to have the opposite effect. |
With you all the way regarding the anthem booing. It wouldn’t cross my mind to do so. Crass and boring - it’s all been done. I’d boo that Immobile bloke, mind, - I thought it was Easter Sunday for a moment when he got up against Belgium. | |
| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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