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On one side we have a spineless and rudderless government full of self-serving narcissistic cnts utterly divided.
On the other side we have spineless and rudderless opposition full of self-serving narcissistic cnts utterly divided.
Can someone please show us a third way beyond flipping Vince. Failing a Chuka et al third way then Disco, you're the man no to save us from jezwecan, Diane, Sneery Emily and McDonnell no?
Our country is fckd match thread on 18:32 - Feb 6 by loftboy
No I watched his speech, he shouldn’t have said that end of. Came across as a very bitter person who has realised the first of many dominos are about to fall.
I think Tusk's point was that it's pretty disgraceful to lead citizens down a garden path with campaign promises of £350m a week for the NHS when in fact leading economists keep banging on that being out of the EU means less in our coffers.
I agree with Tusk. They're traitors with their own agenda, and their deep pockets will mean they'll be ok. Good luck to you and me though.
Our country is fckd match thread on 18:38 - Feb 6 by paesanu
I think Tusk's point was that it's pretty disgraceful to lead citizens down a garden path with campaign promises of £350m a week for the NHS when in fact leading economists keep banging on that being out of the EU means less in our coffers.
I agree with Tusk. They're traitors with their own agenda, and their deep pockets will mean they'll be ok. Good luck to you and me though.
Too true. The likes of Johnson and Gove must have known that we couldn't just shake hands with the EU, say “ all the best mate “ and move on. They should be ashamed of themselves for conning the gullible to further their own ambitions. May didn't want to leave but at least has tried to sort the mess out. She's head and shoulders abovethe brexiters in her party.
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Our country is fckd match thread on 19:13 - Feb 6 with 2299 views
Our country is fckd match thread on 18:35 - Feb 6 by colinallcars
He is right. The likes of Boris Johnson bamboozled a lot of people into voting leave. He surely must have know difficulties we would encounter but wanted to portray himself as a sort of saviour and wanted to be the next prime minister. Sadly a lot of voters fell for it hook line andsinker and have left us on $hit street.
Does not change the fact Tusk is a pompous civil servant rejoicing in the media spotlight. It was a remark calculated to inflame the situation. It was a clear indication he does not want to negotiate which has been the case since the referendum result and has only been going through the motions
[Post edited 6 Feb 2019 19:44]
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Our country is fckd match thread on 19:44 - Feb 6 with 2245 views
Our country is fckd match thread on 15:34 - Feb 6 by QPR_John
Tusk works for the EU which in the opinion of many gives him carte blanc to say what he likes. Now if a brexiteer had said something similar about remainers it would be all over the media and James O'Brian would be spitting blood.
The difference being Tusk is actually right and isn’t trying to con anyone.
It’s both sad and incredible that any normal person still thinks they or society would benefit from a hard Brexit. Say what you like about Boris etc. but people need to take a smidge of responsibility for not just finding literally any source that backs up their own confirmation bias.
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Our country is fckd match thread on 19:55 - Feb 6 with 2235 views
Our country is fckd match thread on 19:44 - Feb 6 by Watford_Ranger
The difference being Tusk is actually right and isn’t trying to con anyone.
It’s both sad and incredible that any normal person still thinks they or society would benefit from a hard Brexit. Say what you like about Boris etc. but people need to take a smidge of responsibility for not just finding literally any source that backs up their own confirmation bias.
Since the result of the referendum those on the remain side have not simply said we will be worse off leaving the EU but that we cannot leave the EU. A question I have always wanted to ask of those on the remain side is is there any scenario where they would advocate leaving the EU. With the dire stories we have been getting I cannot see how they can ever support leaving. Join the Euro, a European army under the control of Brussels, take our seat on the UN Security Council, a United States of Europe. It might be that these are considered treaty changes in which case we have a referendum although I'm sure there will be a fix, Lisbon anybody. But let's say we get a referendum how can those on the remain side vote against
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Our country is fckd match thread on 19:58 - Feb 6 with 2232 views
I read an interesting snippet today (full disclosure - yes, it was in The Guardian). Interviews with voters in N Ireland: one guy, who is a Catholic, Republican, and at heart a Remainer, voted Leave because he thought leaving the EU would lead to the break-up of the UK, and hence hasten a united Ireland. I wonder how common was that?
Personally I would like to propose a break-up of the UK into regions. London and the South-East could stay in the EU, along with Scotland and NI (we all voted to remain). The rest of England and Wales could leave the EU, lose their jobs, and be happy eating turnips all winter while the rest of us carry on with year-round imported strawberries and lettuces. Win-win, or what?
[Post edited 6 Feb 2019 20:51]
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Our country is fckd match thread on 20:02 - Feb 6 with 2225 views
Our country is fckd match thread on 19:58 - Feb 6 by GloryHunter
I read an interesting snippet today (full disclosure - yes, it was in The Guardian). Interviews with voters in N Ireland: one guy, who is a Catholic, Republican, and at heart a Remainer, voted Leave because he thought leaving the EU would lead to the break-up of the UK, and hence hasten a united Ireland. I wonder how common was that?
Personally I would like to propose a break-up of the UK into regions. London and the South-East could stay in the EU, along with Scotland and NI (we all voted to remain). The rest of England and Wales could leave the EU, lose their jobs, and be happy eating turnips all winter while the rest of us carry on with year-round imported strawberries and lettuces. Win-win, or what?
Our country is fckd match thread on 19:58 - Feb 6 by GloryHunter
I read an interesting snippet today (full disclosure - yes, it was in The Guardian). Interviews with voters in N Ireland: one guy, who is a Catholic, Republican, and at heart a Remainer, voted Leave because he thought leaving the EU would lead to the break-up of the UK, and hence hasten a united Ireland. I wonder how common was that?
Personally I would like to propose a break-up of the UK into regions. London and the South-East could stay in the EU, along with Scotland and NI (we all voted to remain). The rest of England and Wales could leave the EU, lose their jobs, and be happy eating turnips all winter while the rest of us carry on with year-round imported strawberries and lettuces. Win-win, or what?
[Post edited 6 Feb 2019 20:51]
It wasn’t a regional vote.
favourite cheese mature Cheddar. FFS there is no such thing as the EPL
Our country is fckd match thread on 20:52 - Feb 6 by GloryHunter
Apologies. Corrected.
You got Wales wrong but was correct re Scotland and NI. But really that is not the point. It was a UK vote but if you want to break it down how far do you go. Country's of the UK or maybe counties then there is constituencies or maybe local boroughs.
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Our country is fckd match thread on 21:06 - Feb 6 with 2140 views
Our country is fckd match thread on 20:59 - Feb 6 by QPR_John
You got Wales wrong but was correct re Scotland and NI. But really that is not the point. It was a UK vote but if you want to break it down how far do you go. Country's of the UK or maybe counties then there is constituencies or maybe local boroughs.
I think it’s fair to highlight Scotland given they voted against independence partly so they could maintain EU membership.
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Our country is fckd match thread on 21:38 - Feb 6 with 2101 views
Our country is fckd match thread on 19:55 - Feb 6 by QPR_John
Since the result of the referendum those on the remain side have not simply said we will be worse off leaving the EU but that we cannot leave the EU. A question I have always wanted to ask of those on the remain side is is there any scenario where they would advocate leaving the EU. With the dire stories we have been getting I cannot see how they can ever support leaving. Join the Euro, a European army under the control of Brussels, take our seat on the UN Security Council, a United States of Europe. It might be that these are considered treaty changes in which case we have a referendum although I'm sure there will be a fix, Lisbon anybody. But let's say we get a referendum how can those on the remain side vote against
The way to leave the EU without being massively worse off appears to be to remain in custom unions and trade agreements with the EU. The issue with that is we’d still have to contribute financially like other nations in similar arrangements but not have a say. The option of leaving without any deal would be more difficult and harder financially on people, doesn’t sound like we’re going to be better off as those looking to sell the leave vote prior to the referendum were suggesting. Also it was said before the referendum that the deal we would get offered by the EU was going to be the easiest deal in history to negotiate and the EU would want a deal with us so much they’d offer us a deal better than they’ve offered anyone else. None of that has been shown to be true, so when none of the key information from the leave side has been shown to be true how do you expect remain voters to get behind it?
As for your final statement, you can bringing up the Lisbon Treaty but as the Irish reporter told Farage only last week, the initial vote forced a renegotiation to appease the Irish population and they voted through an amended version second time which satisfied the population. No remain voter I talk to ever wants to join the Euro, so I don’t get where you’re going with that or is it project fear?
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Our country is fckd match thread on 22:11 - Feb 6 with 2050 views
Our country is fckd match thread on 21:47 - Feb 6 by QPR_Jim
The way to leave the EU without being massively worse off appears to be to remain in custom unions and trade agreements with the EU. The issue with that is we’d still have to contribute financially like other nations in similar arrangements but not have a say. The option of leaving without any deal would be more difficult and harder financially on people, doesn’t sound like we’re going to be better off as those looking to sell the leave vote prior to the referendum were suggesting. Also it was said before the referendum that the deal we would get offered by the EU was going to be the easiest deal in history to negotiate and the EU would want a deal with us so much they’d offer us a deal better than they’ve offered anyone else. None of that has been shown to be true, so when none of the key information from the leave side has been shown to be true how do you expect remain voters to get behind it?
As for your final statement, you can bringing up the Lisbon Treaty but as the Irish reporter told Farage only last week, the initial vote forced a renegotiation to appease the Irish population and they voted through an amended version second time which satisfied the population. No remain voter I talk to ever wants to join the Euro, so I don’t get where you’re going with that or is it project fear?
Of course it's Project Fear, together with Project Tell Loads of Lies, as it has been from the beginning. But you'll get lots of responses saying the economic forecasts by the government, academics and economists are wrong because they can't possibly know for sure (!). What it comes down to is that the people who led the campaign won't be worse off and have businesses and financial interests which will probably benefit from (being able to do what they like with their employees) less regulation.
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Our country is fckd match thread on 22:18 - Feb 6 with 2045 views
Our country is fckd match thread on 21:38 - Feb 6 by Sharpy36
Don`t be dragging the SE into the notion that we should remain along with London in the EU. The SE by and large voted to leave.
Mmmm, only just. If you combine London and the South-East then it's a Remain majority.
(The astonishing thing for me is that Dover voted strongly Leave. The people there in work are mostly employed on the ferries. Oh, hang on, most of those people are EU guest workers, who weren't allowed to vote in the referendum.)
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Our country is fckd match thread on 22:28 - Feb 6 with 2031 views
Our country is fckd match thread on 21:47 - Feb 6 by QPR_Jim
The way to leave the EU without being massively worse off appears to be to remain in custom unions and trade agreements with the EU. The issue with that is we’d still have to contribute financially like other nations in similar arrangements but not have a say. The option of leaving without any deal would be more difficult and harder financially on people, doesn’t sound like we’re going to be better off as those looking to sell the leave vote prior to the referendum were suggesting. Also it was said before the referendum that the deal we would get offered by the EU was going to be the easiest deal in history to negotiate and the EU would want a deal with us so much they’d offer us a deal better than they’ve offered anyone else. None of that has been shown to be true, so when none of the key information from the leave side has been shown to be true how do you expect remain voters to get behind it?
As for your final statement, you can bringing up the Lisbon Treaty but as the Irish reporter told Farage only last week, the initial vote forced a renegotiation to appease the Irish population and they voted through an amended version second time which satisfied the population. No remain voter I talk to ever wants to join the Euro, so I don’t get where you’re going with that or is it project fear?
The point about the Lisbon treaty has nothing to do with the Irish referendum. At the time there was no law requiring us to have a referendum on a treaty change only a constitutional change. Lisbon was originally put forward as a constitutional change and when it was recognised it would require a referendum here it was magically changed into a treaty.
I don't think you have answered my question re the fact remainers think rather than we would be worse off leaving the EU we would be of a magnitude worse off to the point we actually cannot leave the EU. You say remain voters you talk to do not want to join the Euro but how would they vote in a referendum if faced with the Euro being adopted here not to mention the other points I made.
As for remaining in the custom union and free trade area how does that equate to leaving the EU. We would still be required to adopt EU rules without being able to affect them. We could not negotiate trade deals with non EU countries. We would have to accept free movement. Staying in the EU is better than staying in the custom union and free trade area without having any say in the rules.
[Post edited 6 Feb 2019 23:05]
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Our country is fckd match thread on 00:42 - Feb 7 with 1909 views
Our country is fckd match thread on 23:04 - Feb 6 by QPR_John
The point about the Lisbon treaty has nothing to do with the Irish referendum. At the time there was no law requiring us to have a referendum on a treaty change only a constitutional change. Lisbon was originally put forward as a constitutional change and when it was recognised it would require a referendum here it was magically changed into a treaty.
I don't think you have answered my question re the fact remainers think rather than we would be worse off leaving the EU we would be of a magnitude worse off to the point we actually cannot leave the EU. You say remain voters you talk to do not want to join the Euro but how would they vote in a referendum if faced with the Euro being adopted here not to mention the other points I made.
As for remaining in the custom union and free trade area how does that equate to leaving the EU. We would still be required to adopt EU rules without being able to affect them. We could not negotiate trade deals with non EU countries. We would have to accept free movement. Staying in the EU is better than staying in the custom union and free trade area without having any say in the rules.
[Post edited 6 Feb 2019 23:05]
You said “since the result of the referendum those on the remain side have not simply said we will be worse off leaving the EU but that we cannot leave the EU”. Nobody has said we cannot leave the EU, that’s plainly wrong, I (and I assume many other remainers) are just no sure why you would want to when it’s going to mean that as a country we’re economically worse off. I also can’t understand why some areas have voted in favour of this when they stand to lose the most especially when it seems to be in reaction to inequality that’s manifested as a result of government policy rather than anything the EU have done. Obviously there is an argument that they were lied to about the effect leaving would have, which I’ve already covered, that could explain some of the reason.
Anyway I doubt we're going to resolve this on here at this hour.
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Our country is fckd match thread on 07:36 - Feb 7 with 1783 views
Our country is fckd match thread on 22:18 - Feb 6 by GloryHunter
Mmmm, only just. If you combine London and the South-East then it's a Remain majority.
(The astonishing thing for me is that Dover voted strongly Leave. The people there in work are mostly employed on the ferries. Oh, hang on, most of those people are EU guest workers, who weren't allowed to vote in the referendum.)
And if you combine London the south east and the rest of the Uk it’s a vote for leave.
favourite cheese mature Cheddar. FFS there is no such thing as the EPL
Actually 403 of the 632 constituencies voted to leave in the Referendum. However, quite a lot of those MPs don't agree with their constituencies and want to remain. This is one reason the UK now finds itself in the current position.
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Our country is fckd match thread on 08:34 - Feb 7 with 1735 views
All the talk of certain regions remaining is pretty unrealistic in my opinion, however, I wouldn’t be surprised if remainers simply vote with their feet just as people did in the 70s and 80s. I can’t see many of the Europeans wanting to remain either. The political turmoil and social divisions brought about after the vote have caused rifts and wounds that’ll take considerable time to heal, no one will be held to account for what they have done. The only positive I can see as a result of the whole debacle is that people will realise that it wasn’t the EU that made their life worse but successive governments.
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Our country is fckd match thread on 08:50 - Feb 7 with 1722 views
Our country is fckd match thread on 07:36 - Feb 7 by loftboy
And if you combine London the south east and the rest of the Uk it’s a vote for leave.
And that's the problem. You're telling me I've got to have my left arm chopped off, and I'm saying I don't want to have my left arm chopped off, thank you very much. And you say, but the majority has voted that they want to have their left arms chopped off, so EVERYBODY has to have their left arms chopped off. I'm saying that those who voted for it should go ahead, but they shouldn't force it on those who didn't vote for it.
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