| Guns on the Streets 17:32 - Nov 16 with 6505 views | exiled_dictator |
sometimes you see armed policemen.
they were clear to see during the 2012 olympics, and are around and about the embassies here in kensington.
and now they will be visible during the england/france match at wembley tomorrow.
jeremy corbyn was asked by bbc political editor laura kuenssberg whether he would be happy to order police or the military to shoot to kill if there was a similar attack on britain's streets.
corbyn said: "i'm not happy with the shoot-to-kill policy in general - I think that is quite dangerous and I think can often can be counterproductive.
"i think you have to have security that prevents people firing off weapons where you can, there are various degrees for doing things as we know.
"but the idea you end up with a war on the streets is not a good thing."
given the recent events in paris, and the threat from isis that london is a genuine and valid target for attack, would you be in favour of not only having more armed police and army on the streets, but having them visible so you can see them, as opposed to them being in the shadows?
these terrorists have been brainwashed and genuinely believe in life after a violent death; i believe in life before death. if they are happy to meet their makers, and have 72 fukking ugly hairy virgins waiting for them, then i am only too happy to see them off on their way with a bullet to the head or other vital organ.
i am reluctant to have a serious shoot out on the streets of london, but if the police are there to defend us, and we are not allowed to legally arm ourselves, then trained officers should not hesitate to pull the trigger.
i realise that some people will find this attitude absolutely abhorrent, and genuinely believe that dialogue is the way forward, but these cancerous shits are already infesting europe, poisoning our peaceful and tolerant way of life. they want nothing more that confrontation, to instil fear into the local communities, and push forward with their agenda of islamifying europe under one caliphate and sharia law.
it is clear to me that this open arms policy is being taken advantage of by them, and if policies towards them don't change, then things will only get more dangerous for all law obiding people just looking to live a peaceful life.
the restaurant came under 'attack' from drunken group of about 10 males on saturday night, clearly upset by the events in paris. maybe they were just looking for a cheap and easy target, and saw a muslim owned establishment as that objective. it is sad, but i can sort of understand their frustration.
and i reiterate again, the vast majority of muslims in the uk want nothing to do with these murderous bastards, who deserve nothing less than hell. we do educate our children to be tolerant and follow a proper path in life. we do look out to members of our communities who might be a risk and weak towards these ideological temptations, and we do have open dialogue with the police and other security forces. just because you don't see it does not mean that it does not happen. but there are always week members of a flock that need help. in all communities in society.
we pray for peace, but have to prepare for all scenarios.
you will understand that i need to keep a low profile during these challenging times for us all, but do not judge a whole community or religion based on the actions of a very small minority.
may the coming days and weeks be filled with peace and more joyful times leading upto the christmas festivities. |  |
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| Guns on the Streets on 14:33 - Nov 17 with 947 views | Cliff |
| Guns on the Streets on 14:17 - Nov 17 by Juzzie |
This is what pi$$ed me off about the whole Mark Duggan episode that sparked the London (and elsewhere) riots a few years ago.
He was in a taxi, with a gun and on his way to do something to someone with that gun (beit a threat, to wound or even to kill). The vehicle he was in got stopped. The taxi drivers life was at risk, pedestrians were at risk so the police took the split decision to shoot. Take him out of the equation.
Cue mass hysteria and mock-shock on Facebook about 'poor Mark Duggan'. Y'know, the person who had numerous convictions to his name, the person who was already facing two seperate trials. The person who was a known villain. The person who obviously luvved his Mum.
The police took him out - the population rioted.
If the police hadn't and an innocent bystander got shot, the population would have rioted in disgust.
The situation was just an excuse, whichever way it ended, to go on the rob.
Although I still find it unnerving see police with guns, I rather they did than didn't. And by that I mean specialist units, not your average bobby.
[Post edited 17 Nov 2015 14:22]
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"He was in a taxi with a gun"
Not according to the evidence presented in court:
"Giving evidence in Mr Hutchinson-Foster's trial, the firearms officer told the court however, that when he went over to Mr Duggan he could not find a gun."
From:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19662526
but widely reported elsewhere as where the taxi drivers report of the incident:
"The car that had stopped — men got out of it very quickly who were carrying guns in their hands. Then I heard the sound of my rear door opening. I saw that Mark Duggan got out and ran. At the same time, I heard firing from the front. I saw shots strike Mark Duggan. He fell to the ground. 'Mark Duggan only got 2ft-3ft from my car when he was shot'.
At the same time a man came and he opened my door. Very angrily he pulled me out by my arm and then he dropped me or knelt me down on the ground by the rear tyres of the car.
The taxi driver told the inquest that an armed officer had threatened to shoot him if he did not stop looking at where Duggan had fallen to the ground and was being handled "quite harsh and callous" by officers."
So it does look like the taxi drivers live was at risk like you say, but not from the source you state! |  | | |
| Guns on the Streets on 14:35 - Nov 17 with 914 views | Brightonhoop |
| Guns on the Streets on 12:35 - Nov 17 by Juzzie |
Wednesday & Thursday last week I saw two armed police outside a French Embassy building on the Cromwell Road right by the Natural History Museum. They weren't there before.
I wonder if the authorities knew something was imminent? |
Maybe they did Juzzie, maybe just co-incidence, tough call I guess to judge whether something is imminent, do you panic the public on what might be a false alarm or quietly step up security? I would think they are obliged to raise the Threat Level and broadcast such. Imagine they suspected something and didn't, and an attack took place. Guess we'll never know. |  | | |
| Guns on the Streets on 14:36 - Nov 17 with 909 views | Discodroids |
Fancy this for Christmas dinner clive!!.
http://order-order.com/2015/11/17/corbyns-christmas-kofte-jez-decks-the-halls-wi
dinner with stop the war and Jermery, the hottest ticket in town!
the labour party turning itself inside out on shoot to kill policies at the moment, moderate mps apologising on sky right now for corbyn. [Post edited 17 Nov 2015 14:44]
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| Guns on the Streets on 15:43 - Nov 17 with 846 views | BlackCrowe |
| Guns on the Streets on 14:17 - Nov 17 by Juzzie |
This is what pi$$ed me off about the whole Mark Duggan episode that sparked the London (and elsewhere) riots a few years ago.
He was in a taxi, with a gun and on his way to do something to someone with that gun (beit a threat, to wound or even to kill). The vehicle he was in got stopped. The taxi drivers life was at risk, pedestrians were at risk so the police took the split decision to shoot. Take him out of the equation.
Cue mass hysteria and mock-shock on Facebook about 'poor Mark Duggan'. Y'know, the person who had numerous convictions to his name, the person who was already facing two seperate trials. The person who was a known villain. The person who obviously luvved his Mum.
The police took him out - the population rioted.
If the police hadn't and an innocent bystander got shot, the population would have rioted in disgust.
The situation was just an excuse, whichever way it ended, to go on the rob.
Although I still find it unnerving see police with guns, I rather they did than didn't. And by that I mean specialist units, not your average bobby.
[Post edited 17 Nov 2015 14:22]
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I would argue that a large proportion only rioted so that they could get a new flatscreen and a few cartons of fags. |  |
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| Guns on the Streets on 16:20 - Nov 17 with 812 views | Metallica_Hoop |
That was a marvelous opening comment. |  |
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| Guns on the Streets on 17:06 - Nov 17 with 773 views | robith |
There seems to be a lot of confusion on this - shoot to kill isn't about armed response to an active terror situation, it's about shooting on suspicion, which history has shown us rarely results in a positive outcome |  | | |
| Guns on the Streets on 17:26 - Nov 17 with 753 views | Juzzie |
| Guns on the Streets on 15:43 - Nov 17 by BlackCrowe |
I would argue that a large proportion only rioted so that they could get a new flatscreen and a few cartons of fags. |
Definitely, hence "The situation was just an excuse, whichever way it ended, to go on the rob. " |  | | |
| Guns on the Streets on 17:35 - Nov 17 with 746 views | Brightonhoop |
| Guns on the Streets on 17:06 - Nov 17 by robith |
There seems to be a lot of confusion on this - shoot to kill isn't about armed response to an active terror situation, it's about shooting on suspicion, which history has shown us rarely results in a positive outcome |
Especially for those being shot ;-)
problem is everyone arms up, have seen it here, Spanish farmers alarmed by the Brit influx start firing off shotguns at sunset, to warn new comers to keep a distance, up go the crows. Brits, alarmed, arm themselves, and fire off 16 guages also at sun down. I've seen a local fire off a shot gun from his car because the roadworks fella o the stop sign didn't turn it to green fast enough for his liking. He did after the shotgun went off. It's only a matter time before they all start shooting each other. I doubt more guns will make any difference.
Anyway, here's a nightmare vision of the near future, muslim child pushes white child over in the playground, President Donald Trump and PM George Osborne respond by nuking East London. Ah well. | | | |
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| Guns on the Streets on 17:54 - Nov 17 with 724 views | Cliff |
No the points is there are lots of lower impact ones, it's only the bigger ones that get reported, but the smaller ones do add up, and the point is not all or indeed not even the majority are Islamic in nature. | | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 19:37 - Nov 17 with 685 views | Hunterhoop |
| Guns on the Streets on 23:41 - Nov 16 by Hunterhoop |
Well done, Lytham!
Was going to post something (far less good, mind) for Dean. The only two countries, I believe, who follow the Wahhabism form of Islam as the state's religion is Saudi Arabia and Qatar (well done, Blatter!)!
It's an extremely complex issue with a complex history that I am by no means an expert on.
Ironically IS are using arms supplied by the West to the Sunni's in Iran (who many happened to be Wahhabists) when they were fighting Assad, because we didn't like Assad. Now we like IS less, so we're launching air strikes on them and, de facto, supporting Assad. Assad is supported by Russia though, who we don't like, so it's all a bit tricky.
The big issue though is IS's funding. How to they keep themselves armed, supplied and able to grow their network and influence. Well, it's widely know that most of there funding comes from Saudi, predominantly wealthy individuals and groups rather than solely the govt, all of whom are Wahhabists, influenced by clerics who openly support IS's actions and the need to defeat the infidel.
The problem the West have is that we need the Saudi Arabia but the West's economy is based on oil. So whilst we don't like IS we do like some of those who may be financing them. What makes it more complicated is that the Saudi give have gradually embraced some elements of Western culture and are actually hated but some Wahhabists. Therefore, if the Saudi govt was to fall, there is the risk that what replaces it could be worse. And if we try to influence the Saudi govt to help the West and curb violent Wahhabism, they will risk alienating even more Wahhabists as they see the hand of the West extend even more into their world. So, to stay in power, the Saudi govt are unlikely to start doing what the West wants them to do.
Foreign Policy, it's really simple.
That's my ill informed understanding. I'll wait for someone to correct me or tell me off for being far too crude in my explanation! 😉 |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 19:54 - Nov 17 with 672 views | CiderwithRsie |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 19:37 - Nov 17 by Hunterhoop |
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Hunter:
I'm no expert either, but the blokes who supposedly are and have been wheeled out on Radio 4 as such reckon ISIS is entirely self-funding, largely due to controlling the oil-fikleds of northern Syria and a big chunk of the Iraqi ones too. IIRC they were actually selling oil to Assad, presumably since he no longer has any of his own and doesn't have too many mates willing to sell to him. I believe quite a lot of the US anti-IS bombing is aimed at disrupting their oil industry.
Quite a chunk of the weaponry came from stuff the Iraqi army obtained from the US but left behind when they scarpered.
They did agree that the funding was a big issue, and that a major part of the anti-IS strategy had to be to restrict their ability to export oil.
Patrick Cockburn in the Indy argues that most of the non-ISIS opposition are equally loopy, mainly being Al-Qaida, and that they are getting a lot of cash and weapons from those lovely Saudis and Qataris, so I don't think your point is entirely wrong. And I've heard moderate Muslims complain that the reason there are so many extremist preachers in the UK is that the Saudi wahhabis fund the mosques. |  | | |
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