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I'll add to this when I've calmed down but if you saw anything positive in his selection, tactics or change tonight I'd love to hear from you (Antti) My view would be the same even if we'd sneaked a late winner
4-2-3-1 at home time after time after time after time is an insult
Goodnght
Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal
Because you and LBlock have your opinions and you're very passionate and vociferous about them and that's fair enough. I'm on the 13.48 to Hull so decided not to get involved after initially starting to respond.
I do agree with Pinner though - it is a bit of a stretch to say that things go wrong purely because of Ramsey and go well only because the players take it upon themselves. It devalues the good points you do make to insist on that.
Because you and LBlock have your opinions and you're very passionate and vociferous about them and that's fair enough. I'm on the 13.48 to Hull so decided not to get involved after initially starting to respond.
I do agree with Pinner though - it is a bit of a stretch to say that things go wrong purely because of Ramsey and go well only because the players take it upon themselves. It devalues the good points you do make to insist on that.
This post has been edited by an administrator
fair enough
I listen to peoples views Clive as does Lblock , we are all passionate about QPR, and all want us to do well, I do understand we are starting again and that the structure of the club has to change and believe it or not I actually want Ramsey to throw my words down my throat and for those who rate Ramsey to give it to me big time if he comes good, but even you who goes week in week out have to say we are a shambles at the back and are still lacking organisation from the manager , from what ive seen this year it reminds me of the Houston days , anyway safe trip and hopefully we bounce back with back to back away wins
And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
I had started typing a long dia-tribe on this but in the end I though "ah balls to it" and cracked on with some more work; deleted it; but now I'm back with a few (fewer) words
What I do want to return to is the preciousness of some in reference to "Benny". I cannot believe people are so offended by this; I mean do you seriously think he's laying awake at night thinking "I can't handle it! Some kn0b on LFW's is comparing me to a bumbling fool on Crossroads just coz I wear a woolly hat when the temperature drops below 19 degrees C and I'm a bit shit at this management lark". I'd say he's counting his circa 15 gees a week over a 3 year contract and quite happy. I cannot believe that failure to refer to him as Master Benedict Leroy Ramsey Esquire is such an issue to a few!!!
I get called far, far, far worse almost everyday -- and that's even before I've left the house to go to work, got a sharp tongue my missus.
Benny's player recruitment has turned up a couple of potential diamonds but also just as many I think we could regret. I mean what was the point of Gobern? Do you really think Smithers looks a decent keeper? Will Gladwin be of any use whatsover?
That aside he's decided steadfastly to play a certain way and quite simply we're not good at it and it is boring drivel. Our back 5 are nothing short of rudderless and all over the shop. The GK's dont excude confidence, the full backs are bereft of pace, make odd decisions, dont join up attack and are vvank in the air. The best CB partnership on display so far this season was dismantle immediately upon signings from Watford and the team captain seems to be finding this a burden to his own game which has gone to pot last two games Then the sixth and seventh defensive players rolled out (read that again.. 6th & 7th) are one paced, dont read the game and fail to close space in the middle third as they are painfully slow over 10 yards. The attacking midfield three offer width only on rare occasions and when the ball is turned over and we had width this exposes acres of space inside. Benny obviously wants these roles to be fluid but that in itself needs hugely fit and pacey players who are also physical and skillfull plus understand the role inside out. Then we have Charles. Oh poor Charles. A striker who does what it says on the tin - finishes. He also has the added attribute of being busy and working extremely hard. He is being flogged to death and needs to be a target man, win his own flick on's, hold the ball up, turn and link up and then finish, come deep and link play plus also at times run the channels and pull defenders out in the hope Illongo or Chery make undetected runs from midfield.
Now this has worked out a few times on an attacking basis. The facts back that up. But our style of play is clunky and disjointed 80% of the time.
There's so much more wrong in my book from a list of motivation, fitness, squad balance (still not really added to the striker list) and now Benny's interviews becoming decidedly Rednknapp'esque.
You at the back there shouting out "We dont hear you when we win"... pipe down fella. My view would be the same if we'd sneaked a winner. You need to dog out a lot of games at this level but also you need to give something at home every now and then. That Warnock team were fantastic at this -- was I moaning up at Barnsley when Adel scored after 2 mins and we spent the next 88mins stopping the game? No, of course I wasnt. That team was well drilled and didn't look uninterested, unfit or one paced.
I neither expect nor crave promotion and accept there's a few years needed to get us on the right track after a mad few years. I'd accept a few defeats along the way where we've given it a bit of a go - especially at home.
After nine months I'd say opinions can be formed. I've made mine
I'm not offended by it, I just think it is pretty harsh on someone who, unlike Redknapp, is professional - if not always right - hard working, fully committed, skilled and capable, although, again, I will willingly admit they make mistakes. And boy, does Ramsey owe the fans a performance after some of the recent poor performances. The players too. Let me put that out there right at the start.
My stance: In a nutshell, Ramsey may get things wrong - too many things recently - but he is not some simple bumpkin. I mean, come on, here is someone who at least is proud to manage us, hard working, who cares and who is committed to the cause. Could we say that about Redknapp? Hughes?
I agree with quite a lot of the other stuff you wrote. Something is not right at the moment and we have started underperforming. I think I said - possibly not publically - that we should give Ramsey 10 or 15 games before we judge him. I was reasonably happy with him as manager when the club announced his permanent appointment, but I have to say I am getting concerned that we are rapidly approaching that 10-15 mark with our form dipping and the team not gelling. I am beginning to wonder if Ramsey needs a crafty old hand to help him out, especially on the defensive/game management side of things.
Pray with me for a win this weekend!
RFA
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
RFA and others on this name calling... I shoot myself down with a napalm lance in so much as I know the man is not a simpleton!!! In reality my big issue is with Bungle as he's given the job to someone out of their depth.
An analogy from my walk of life if you will:- I have one of the best bricklayer / plasterers you will every meet working for me and he can run a site as a Working Foreman in his sleep. As we've been cut back to the bone last few years I've been forced to ask him to cover the Project Manager role whilst that fella is on leave -- he did his absolute best but went to pieces on a few things as, by his own admission, it's not his thing. Now if I'd promoted him full on full time and his results were disastrous I'd have to drop him back down or get shot of him. Chances are he'd do the offski as most would if de-moted. So I'd lose a quality man in his position. Do you see where I'm coming from?
Benny is, by rep, a fantastic developer of players at youth level and just above -- his past achievements stand testimony to that. Push him up into dealing with fella's on £10k a week upwards, who cock a deaf 'un, that dont respect what you've done in the game or where you're at the sharp end for 90 minutes twice a week and he's floundering -- his current achievements stand testimony to that!
Undoubtedly there's some who excel as they make their way up and by Christ that should be encouraged. I still hope something clicks and we start playing the football this squad is capable of, that's all I ask.
Maybe it's Benny from Top Cat I'm really thinking of? That loyal little blue side-kick working in the backround!!!!!
[Post edited 18 Sep 2015 12:47]
Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal
Top choon PunteR - I can never remember the name of the track I used to mix with that, by Ron something or other. I'll have to flick through the back of the stack.
Dont get hung up on the Benny thing! I'm purely an attention seeking shallow infantile man. I dont blame him for relegation - that's down to Bungle and 'Arry all the way. What I think you can assess over his tenure is his tactical style, persona and ability to think on his feet. All fails for me.
I really find it hard to explain myself on this medium in this respect but the club screwed up big time here (for a change). When he goes it will be a big loss but not as a Manager. We will have lost one of the most respected youth coaches in the game and something we've been crying out for. He's never going to accept stepping down or back!!! He'll walk into another job at any of the bigger clubs and will be at Villa 1,000% with Tactics Tim and we'll be back to looking for what we should've appointed in the first place -- an upcoming Manager who players will respect and carry out instructions for.
Fair enough mate.
My assessment of his tenure is that it's not complete failure. Your point about him thinking on his feet is definitely a concern but his tactical style is definitely an improvement from the last couple of years. We have more pace in the side, we now have square plugs in square holes,we're trying to play a more entertaining an attacking style (i cant comment on 1st half v Blackburn). I think its individual errors and performances that have let him down. Last season we all thought Faurlin would never play football again, now we're calling him to play every week..! Maybe Ramsey is trying to manage him and giving the new signing Tozser a few games to bed in. Henry and Tozser though hasn't worked, clearly. As regards his persona, i like him. He comes across as an honest football man. He doesn't pretend to be a manager by putting a suit on ,he keeps it real man, trackies, baseball cap back to front, jumper round the waste. He's obviously not used to be in the public eye,but i dont hold that against him.Steve Gallen was a youth coach,would you begrudge him of a chance of managing the 1st team? Ramsey wont be here forever but at the moment i think he's steadied the ship quite well after the mess we was in.
I've rambled on. I did have flick through youtube to try and guess what tune you mixed Believe tune with. RobinS was too obvious, so i've gone for this one(im supposed to be pricing up a job).
4-2-3-1 is not a defensive formation. We won the league with it under Warnock and are the league's top scorers. Playing two striker does not automatically mean you will attack more. I'd suggest the problem is not the formation. Given the quality of our front four I think it is the ideal formation.
For me Ramsey has really let himself down with his central midfield picks and (lack of) substitutions in the last two games. If we'd played 4-4-2 with Henry and Tozser in the middle things would have been even worse. He spent the summer talking about, and signing, players with lots of running in them, because he'd clearly diagnosed that under Redknapp we were slow and immobile. Up top we're full of running (when Matty can be arsed) but with that pair in centre mid we're going to be playing far too deep and the smooth transition of play from back to front is going to be difficult. Plus we are going to be under the kosh against any team with pace.
Doing it once against Forest was perhaps worth a go, leaving both on for 90 minutes a mistake, repeating the same mistake now makes it look like he has a damaging blind spot.
But I don't mind honest mistakes every now and then. Some will say that this is why you need a more experienced manager but experience is no guarantee. Even world-class managers make plenty of picks and substitutes that have every man and his dog scratching their heads at the logic. And 95% of managers have their blind spots. I'd still say that Ramsey, in the kind of side he has built alongside Les, has done much more right than wrong.
I'm pretty confident that the management will be able to correct this blind spot soon (if Tozser and Henry start together again on Saturday I might start getting a bit angry to be fair). I actually think Ramsey is suffering from being a bit too safe and conservative – NOT with his tactics, which I think are essentially attacking, but with picking inadequate experience over youthful potential. For some reason it's perceived as a "risk" to start Doughty but not a "risk" to start Henry. But things are much more likely to go wrong with Henry out there IMHO. To be honest with our front four, we only need a vaguely competent middle two. This conservative nature is why he doesn't change things mid-game as much as he probably should.
And some perspective. Most managers get a lot of things wrong and a lot of things right. I'd say Ramsey has on an upward trajectory this year. He just has to learn from his major mistakes and let loose a bit with his selections.
RFA and others on this name calling... I shoot myself down with a napalm lance in so much as I know the man is not a simpleton!!! In reality my big issue is with Bungle as he's given the job to someone out of their depth.
An analogy from my walk of life if you will:- I have one of the best bricklayer / plasterers you will every meet working for me and he can run a site as a Working Foreman in his sleep. As we've been cut back to the bone last few years I've been forced to ask him to cover the Project Manager role whilst that fella is on leave -- he did his absolute best but went to pieces on a few things as, by his own admission, it's not his thing. Now if I'd promoted him full on full time and his results were disastrous I'd have to drop him back down or get shot of him. Chances are he'd do the offski as most would if de-moted. So I'd lose a quality man in his position. Do you see where I'm coming from?
Benny is, by rep, a fantastic developer of players at youth level and just above -- his past achievements stand testimony to that. Push him up into dealing with fella's on £10k a week upwards, who cock a deaf 'un, that dont respect what you've done in the game or where you're at the sharp end for 90 minutes twice a week and he's floundering -- his current achievements stand testimony to that!
Undoubtedly there's some who excel as they make their way up and by Christ that should be encouraged. I still hope something clicks and we start playing the football this squad is capable of, that's all I ask.
Maybe it's Benny from Top Cat I'm really thinking of? That loyal little blue side-kick working in the backround!!!!!
[Post edited 18 Sep 2015 12:47]
I'm not offended by the name calling, but rightly or wrongly my automatic reaction when someone is derogatory names is that they are doing so because they don't have a real point to make. Which is a shame because there are often decent points underneath.
I'm not offended by the name calling, but rightly or wrongly my automatic reaction when someone is derogatory names is that they are doing so because they don't have a real point to make. Which is a shame because there are often decent points underneath.
What? Derogatory names often refer to a perceived major fault and can be very pointed. They are used to constantly remind people of that fault and frame the argument in that context. Decide for yourself if they are deserved.
Because you and LBlock have your opinions and you're very passionate and vociferous about them and that's fair enough. I'm on the 13.48 to Hull so decided not to get involved after initially starting to respond.
I do agree with Pinner though - it is a bit of a stretch to say that things go wrong purely because of Ramsey and go well only because the players take it upon themselves. It devalues the good points you do make to insist on that.
This post has been edited by an administrator
Seeds out of doubt about Ramsey seem to be growing in your recent writings as well .
Only just caught up with this thread, love it! a square go between The Ramfukkers (of which im a confirmed member) and The Crew of the Ramsey Mothership.
im gonna Read through it again, It aint 'arf boring when we all agree. This isnt East germany under Erich Honecker .
How the fu ck Ramsey got the gig i'll never know..Getting Ramsey foisted upon us was a right Zulu job.
QPR FAN : Why is it us? Why us? Colour Sergeant Fernandes : Because we're here, lad. Nobody else. Just us.
Seeds out of doubt about Ramsey seem to be growing in your recent writings as well .
[Post edited 19 Sep 2015 10:32]
I'm sure there isn't ANYBODY, including CR himself, who doesn't have doubts about Ramsey.
How long do you give a bad manager before putting an ad in the classifieds? We waited too long in the cases of Hughes and especially Redknapp. I still think the Warnock timing was about right but it graphically demonstrates the appalling lack of certainty of finding a suitable replacement.
We have a very good squad and should be doing better than we are, but our results so far this season haven't been consistently bad enough to roll the dice on a new manager, so I don't subscribe to the 'Benny' crowd yet. It's the Championship. There's still a lot of games to go.
Only just caught up with this thread, love it! a square go between The Ramfukkers (of which im a confirmed member) and The Crew of the Ramsey Mothership.
im gonna Read through it again, It aint 'arf boring when we all agree. This isnt East germany under Erich Honecker .
How the fu ck Ramsey got the gig i'll never know..Getting Ramsey foisted upon us was a right Zulu job.
QPR FAN : Why is it us? Why us? Colour Sergeant Fernandes : Because we're here, lad. Nobody else. Just us.
[Post edited 19 Sep 2015 10:43]
"No comedians please.Say Sir - Officer On Parade."
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