This was a worrying performance from Saints, who although dominating the game looked lacklustre for most of the game.

The big talking point before the game was the decision by Mauricio Pellegrino to drop Wesley Hoedt and put in Virgil Van Dijk, it was obviously a difficult decision for the manager, but the fact remains that Hoedt has been our best central defender in the past three games as harsh as would have been to drop Yoshida on performance Hoedt should have stayed, loyalty clearly played a big part in this selection.

But from the start Saints seemed to lack fire, although we passed the ball well in the first two thirds of the field, the final ball was missing.

Defensively in the first half we were all at sea, Stoke carved out a succession of chances and it needed Fraser Forster to be in top form to keep Saints in the game including a great penalty save, those who have knocked Forster in the past cannot deny he is looking the part in the past three games.

It looked like Saints might get through to half time but just before the break Diouf was left completely unmarked to head home from close range, it could have got worse a minute later when Forster's penalty save meant we were still in the game.

Second half was a lot better, but although we had plenty of pressure we just did not seem to have the confidence to take players on or try to hit the final ball, too many times players we have seen in the past do both of these things, when faced with the option of either of these, did the safe thing and checked back and played a sideways ball.

This is the heart of Saints problem we are playing with fear in the final third not with flair or confidence.

When Boufal came on for Davis on the hour mark it was a brave move from Pellegrino that had more than a few mutterings in the away section, however it worked, we took off a defensive player and brought on a player who seemed willing to run at the opposition and hit the final ball, five minutes later when Gabbiadini came on for Redmond we looked a different side.

When Yoshida fired home with 15 minutes left you felt that there would be only one winner and it looked that way for the next 10 minutes, however when Cedric slipped on the wet turf a rare Stoke attack saw them score what would be the winner.

Charlie Austin was thrown on and it was a frantic finale but it was too little too late and another defeat.

Saints are not a bad squad or a bad side, there is just something missing that the manager has not yet sorted out, we have the players to do so, but to be blunt the manager is now at a key point of his Saints career, he has o win a few games to show the fns that he has what it takes.

The issue is goals, but this game was like the others, it was not a question of chances missed, it was one of creating good chances and although 70% possession created 21 attempts on goal, only 3 were on target and Butland was rarely troubled.

The issue is all about creation, get that right and the goals will come.

Photo: Action Images

skiptonsaint added 19:55 - Oct 1 First up. NIck thanks for taking the time to talk to my 9 year old daughter at half time. She was well chuffed to meet some off the saints 'telly'. All been said above really. I'll leave it to MP to change something and I think he starts Redmond in the next game with the risk of fans starting to turn on him if it goes badly. One last thing. The fans did stick with the team pretty well again yesterday and great tunrout again with all the recent poor games. We do have a good solid away following now.

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BoondockSaint added 20:57 - Oct 1 "This was a worrying performance from Saints, ..." Only now?????? NIck you could cut and pasted that into almost any Verdict article for the past year! They seem to think all they have to do is show up in a Saints shirt and any perceived "Lower club" will just let them walk away with the 3 points! The majority of the players need the manager or some player to take them by the scruff of the neck and let them know they will be gone the next window if they don't start showing up for games ( and not to a nice Prem club!). Usually after a performance like that the manager and coaches keep the team on the practice pitch deep into the night until they get things right. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be Black's approach. He's more apt to say "You're probably tired after the game on Saturday, you can take the day off." P.S. Nick- Yoshi looked like JWP on that one, didn't he? Well, I mean, except for the scoring the goal bit.........

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redandwhitedee added 21:39 - Oct 1 I have seen nothing in this new manager to warrant much more than a couple more games to get it right. Heard some calling for sammy lee back instead of Blaxk, but then port old sammy is not doing too great at the palace either. We need goals yet our two best goal scorers sit on the bench and our 3rd best got sold to West Brom. This manager is too scared to rock the boat. VVD should not have started that game. He was very very poor and clearly not concentrating. Get him out. What's wrong with playing 5 at the back ? Stephens, Hoedt and Yosh with our wing backs very capable of getting down the line and putting crosses in for Austin. 5-2-3 for me. With Austin, redmond and gabb. That will be entertaining and surely that's what it's all about no ? Also just a thought. What's wrong with playing a left footer on the left wing, and a right footer on right wing ... ?

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SingaporeSaint added 01:51 - Oct 2 Painful. This 4-2-3-1 formation doesn't work where the 3 all want to be number 10s and none of them do the basics. They don't win battles, don't create, score Nor defend when needed. We are carrying 3. I would go back to old fashioned 4-4-2 and get everyone to compete and get some more ball in the box. We have a shocking lack of delivery too - jwp must play for me . Must also have a word with Cedric - stupid over confidence at the back cost us at the end. For the record - i don't think the manager is up for it. He bored la Liga to death with Alaves, with the most negative displays in years. We shouldn't be surprised.

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SingaporeSaint added 01:53 - Oct 2 Painful. This 4-2-3-1 formation doesn't work where the 3 all want to be number 10s and none of them do the basics. They don't win battles, don't create, score Nor defend when needed. We are carrying 3. I would go back to old fashioned 4-4-2 and get everyone to compete and get some more ball in the box. We have a shocking lack of delivery too - jwp must play for me . Must also have a word with Cedric - stupid over confidence at the back cost us at the end. For the record - i don't think the manager is up to it. He bored la Liga to death with Alaves, with the most negative displays in years. We shouldn't be surprised.

1

SingaporeSaint added 02:13 - Oct 2 Painful. This 4-2-3-1 formation doesn't work where the 3 all want to be number 10s and none of them do the basics. They don't win battles, don't create, score Nor defend when needed. We are carrying 3. I would go back to old fashioned 4-4-2 and get everyone to compete and get some more ball in the box. We have a shocking lack of delivery too - jwp must play for me . Must also have a word with Cedric - stupid over confidence at the back cost us at the end. For the record - i don't think the manager is up to it. He bored la Liga to death with Alaves, with the most negative displays in years. We shouldn't be surprised.

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redandwhitedee added 08:56 - Oct 2 VVD should be nowhere near a saints shirt right now. Playing him is a gamble which proved 100% a wrong move. There are 3 ahead in the pecking order who have fully deserved to keep their places. Our two best goalscorers are sitting on the bench. Our Manager is an unproven gamble which so far is a massive failure only marginally obscured by the fact we have had the easiest start to a season any team has ever had in history..

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saintkev added 11:17 - Oct 2 Totally agree with Wibbersda. Why are Saints Managers so stupidly stubborn? We actually had some proper chances to score inside the box in the last 15 minutes once we had 2 strikers on the pitch. 20 odd shots on goal do not count as chances if they are all powder puff efforts from outside the area. Stoke were there for the taking ...and we missed the easiest opportunity we will have all season for an easy away win. There are only 2 players that can consistently score goals and that's Austin and Gabbiadini. Get those 2 in the STARTING 11 and we will score goals. It's not that complicated.

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thornhill1976 added 14:43 - Oct 2 3 at the back with wing backs would provide the flexibility to have 2 proper strikers i.e. NOT Long and NOT Redmond.
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WanderingSaint added 18:18 - Oct 2 This Yoshi stuff is turning into a persecution Nick. "loyalty clearly played a big part in this selection" just isn't true. He's done nothing to lose his place and everything to keep it. The goal we lost by against MU was Hoedt. The goals in this game were VVVD and Soares (Shwaresh on the commentary I was watching, inexplicably!). Stoke were really poor and so were we. I've got no idea what to expect, apart from a group of players pass it around until one of them sees "something." No pattern, no running off the ball, nobody creating space for someone else. I'll be very surprised to see the manager still here by the end of October.

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