| Where we're going 07:32 - Jan 22 with 3212 views | GaryBannister86 |
Long time fan but new poster here, so be gentle.
I am no knee-jerk critic of Ferdinand and Hoos, I actually think they've done a pretty sensible job in the circumstances.
I don't know what it was about Fleetwood, but it seemed a line in the sand for me. That whatever we do, it's the same old Rangers, going round in circles and making the same mistakes.
It seems our long-term plan has hit the buffers. Yesterday, our best defender (Man U bloke), best midfielder (Villa bloke) and best attacker (Bournemouth bloke) were all....not ours. And in all likelihood, never will be.
How can we have let this happen? How can we have a situation where the only right back at the club that belongs to us is someone as dreadful as Kakay? Where the only striker in the matchday squad who we own is Dykes? I'm actually a Dykes fan. Our goal was down to him and that work never seems to get seen. Of course he is limited, but my lord if we let him go the second half gave us a glimpse as to what lies ahead.
So as long as Critchley does a decent job and Laird, Tim, Lowe and Roberts stay fit I am sure we will end up comfortably mid-table. Great, how exciting. Then in the summer we have no right back, no midfield, literally no forwards of our own. How do we change that? Get more loans?
What is the point in coming mid table with players who are not ours and never will be? Wouldn't it actually be better to build a team with our own players that flirt with relegation but we can actually bind together?
I'm sure Les and Hoos never wanted this and I know I have answered my own questions. I guess you have to play loans when the alternative is so dreadful.
I dunno, I just can't get that excited about a team where the core isn't ours. Fine if we were in the top 4, but if not, I just see no long-term benefit at all.
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| Where we're going (n/t) on 08:05 - Jan 22 with 3102 views | Hitch |
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| Where we're going on 08:12 - Jan 22 with 3084 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
We're in the position we are because the owners aren't bothered and the people delegated to run their club are incompetent.
We are not producing Championship standard players, as has been shown by the likes of Niko, Shodipo and Kakay being kept on season after season in the hope that one day they'll metamorphosise into world-beaters. Warburton lost his job because he knew this.
So if you're not producing players, you need to sign them from somewhere. We've obviously had some success picking up young players when they've left other clubs but generally our transfer record for the key positions is poor over the last few years. For every Paal, there are several Bonnes.
So that leaves you reliant on loans, which is not a good idea if your supposed model is developing players to sell.....which would be okay if you got promoted, but unfortunately you haven't even made the play-offs since you were last relegated. But that's okay, because at least you have a brand new stadium to generate some income. Oh. |  | | |
| Where we're going on 08:27 - Jan 22 with 3024 views | nix |
I'm sure you're going to get some validation from those in the negative camp.
I just don't see the point in endlessly rehashing the problems without any analysis of what they might do better and how they can readily address things (apart from the usual reflexive idea of sacking everyone).
Okay so we're not where we want to be. If we were in the Premiership would you be saying that we're never going to get into the top six? If we were in the top six, would you be saying that we're never going to actually win the thing? If we won the Prem would it be that we're never going to win the CL?
Whatever, don't mean to be harsh,it just seems a disappointingly negative initial post. |  | | |
| Where we're going on 08:36 - Jan 22 with 2973 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Where we're going on 08:27 - Jan 22 by nix |
I'm sure you're going to get some validation from those in the negative camp.
I just don't see the point in endlessly rehashing the problems without any analysis of what they might do better and how they can readily address things (apart from the usual reflexive idea of sacking everyone).
Okay so we're not where we want to be. If we were in the Premiership would you be saying that we're never going to get into the top six? If we were in the top six, would you be saying that we're never going to actually win the thing? If we won the Prem would it be that we're never going to win the CL?
Whatever, don't mean to be harsh,it just seems a disappointingly negative initial post. |
Not at all. I don't have the answers, I don't want anyone sacked, I just think that in order to progress we need to try something different.
I don't expect or demand us to win anything, but I do expect us to be run in a way that gives us a chance. I don't think our owners have lost interest, I marvel at the amount of money that've put in, but I just think we are in a bit of a rut and this vicious cycle of loans is not helping.
If I was Les, I would instruct Critchley that we are no longer going to rely on loans. I know there is no magic money tree with FFP so we are going to have to dig around, develop Armstrong, be cute.
To me, in the absence of being able to buy the right players, that gives us more of a long-term hope than the treading water we are doing now. It is almost like we are in the Premiership and we're doing anything we can just to stay there. Can we honestly say that what we are doing now is going to stand us in good stead in a couple of years? How can it when we are just developing players for other clubs? | | | |
| Where we're going on 10:50 - Jan 22 with 2686 views | nix |
Fair enough. It's your opinion.
Personally I think loans are necessary as a bridge to developing our own players.
I don't see how we're going to get the quality we want by just unearthing magically a fullback, central midfielder and striker who are experienced and talented enough to hit the ground running in the Championship, don't cost any transfer fee and also don't demand ridiculous wages. Even Eze, Willock and Chair took time to develop and Dykes definitely offers more in his overall game than he did on day one. I'm pretty sure Amos would have had a good chance of playing the Iroegbunan role of he hadn't had such an unfortunate injury record over the last few years. Three separate QPR managers have seen the potential of Armstrong but don't think he's ready not even be on the bench half the time.
And I bet most teams in the Championship have to get loans in to make them competitive.
Anyway, I think we'll probably have to agree to disagree going forward as we're unlikely to see the club's strategy in the same light. | | | |
| Where we're going on 12:09 - Jan 22 with 2583 views | enfieldargh |
It may well be that they will take a new approach to recruitment, loans etc sadly January is not a good time to start this
Perhaps we’ll see a change ge for next season |  |
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| Where we're going on 12:17 - Jan 22 with 2551 views | DavieQPR |
Just look at any team in this division without parachute payments and they are all reliant on loan signings. With the likes of Thomas, Shopido, etc playing every week, what is the point in being relegated with just our own players. |  | | |
| Where we're going on 12:23 - Jan 22 with 2528 views | Andybrat |
It’s a long journey, it’s been a long one, it’s gonna be a long one. Surely the new training ground is the indication of the owners intentions, another long journey to get there but we have got there. A full house yesterday means to me there are plenty with the faith. The argument about loans works 2 ways, play with better players and your own improve, they replace your own and your own get worse. Same as our guys out at Orient et al. No answer to that one but as other teams fans know it’s how the championship is these days. Premier League squads are so big due to the imbalance of money that players who in the past would have learnt their trade in the Championship are languishing in bloated squads. I like the fact we have the option to buy Taylor and Tyler ( if we get promoted in his case, I believe). I think that shows ambition and balance of risk. If Bournemouth don’t get relegated reckon Jamal might be an option as well. Rent to buy? Fleetwood was awful though. | | | |
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| Where we're going on 12:31 - Jan 22 with 2503 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
| Where we're going on 08:12 - Jan 22 by Wegerles_Stairs |
We're in the position we are because the owners aren't bothered and the people delegated to run their club are incompetent.
We are not producing Championship standard players, as has been shown by the likes of Niko, Shodipo and Kakay being kept on season after season in the hope that one day they'll metamorphosise into world-beaters. Warburton lost his job because he knew this.
So if you're not producing players, you need to sign them from somewhere. We've obviously had some success picking up young players when they've left other clubs but generally our transfer record for the key positions is poor over the last few years. For every Paal, there are several Bonnes.
So that leaves you reliant on loans, which is not a good idea if your supposed model is developing players to sell.....which would be okay if you got promoted, but unfortunately you haven't even made the play-offs since you were last relegated. But that's okay, because at least you have a brand new stadium to generate some income. Oh. |
£40m currently being spent on a state of the art training facility. Yep, definitely can't be bothered.
I wish I could spend that sort of money on things i didnt give a sh!t about! | | | |
| Where we're going on 12:44 - Jan 22 with 2465 views | distortR |
Now, if we were to ban loans in football, it might open unexpected paths for younger players, stop bigger teams stockpiling players, encourage young talent to stay with, or go to, 'smaller' clubs. Some of those players who haven't succeeded, might have done as they would by necessity have had more time to develop.
It would also be interesting how much money is going out on loanee's, in terms of wages and 'fees'.
In regards to having to bring in players on loan as we haven't had time to develop/bring on our own, well, Tim was hardly experienced and we are developing him when, arguably, it should have been one of ours getting that time and experience, and us saving some money, to boot. | | | |
| Where we're going on 12:54 - Jan 22 with 2444 views | stanistheman |
I get the points about relying on loans, but until we can produce better players than the likes of Kakay (at fault for the equaliser with a poor header straight to an opponent),Hamalainen and Shodipo, we need them.
If QPR can sell some players for good fees to buy better players than the likes of Bonne, Kelman and even Dykes then maybe we won’t need loans. However, I am not sure our recruitment team are able to spot a good striker who can score goals. We haven’t signed one since Austin in 2013. | | | |
| Where we're going on 12:54 - Jan 22 with 2441 views | ParkRoyalR |
First team wise we have made huge strides since (I think) Warburton's early pre-season match away to Borehamwood where our 1st choice Centre Forward was Oteh.
We have a good spine of our own players who can consistently challenge for the Championship top 10 if not the play-offs, with the majority of those players on c£10kp/wk.
We've bought a superb Left Back this season and need to do the same for the Right Back position and we need a 2nd striker and a 2nd type Johansen as unlikely he can be play effectively beyond this season, similar to Adomah, Balogun etc
If we can get a Paal type Right Back, I am confident Richards can be an effective 10, and if Willock stays, I would play Chair alongside Field in the two or go 5-3-2 with JCS and Willock partnering Dykes. So 1st team starters wise I think we are ok.
Finances wise and Academy and Recruitment wise we need to improve, but are limited by our stadium, the number of our fan-base who consistently turn-out and the improvement of clubs in our catchment area (Fulham, Watford and Brentford).
We are also very lucky to have the owners we have imo. | | | |
| Where we're going on 13:24 - Jan 22 with 2373 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Where we're going on 12:54 - Jan 22 by ParkRoyalR |
First team wise we have made huge strides since (I think) Warburton's early pre-season match away to Borehamwood where our 1st choice Centre Forward was Oteh.
We have a good spine of our own players who can consistently challenge for the Championship top 10 if not the play-offs, with the majority of those players on c£10kp/wk.
We've bought a superb Left Back this season and need to do the same for the Right Back position and we need a 2nd striker and a 2nd type Johansen as unlikely he can be play effectively beyond this season, similar to Adomah, Balogun etc
If we can get a Paal type Right Back, I am confident Richards can be an effective 10, and if Willock stays, I would play Chair alongside Field in the two or go 5-3-2 with JCS and Willock partnering Dykes. So 1st team starters wise I think we are ok.
Finances wise and Academy and Recruitment wise we need to improve, but are limited by our stadium, the number of our fan-base who consistently turn-out and the improvement of clubs in our catchment area (Fulham, Watford and Brentford).
We are also very lucky to have the owners we have imo. |
I'm also confident from what I have seen that Richards can be a first team regular. I am less confident he well ever spend enough time on the pitch. Where is he? | | | |
| Where we're going on 15:39 - Jan 22 with 2213 views | BushRanger82 |
I think if we look back over the last 2 decades and a bit, the malaise at our club runs a bit deeper than just our over-reliance on mercenaries, bad as that strategy obviously is.
No. The fact that the club seemingly has no will to win any competition it's in, just get promoted every now and again, can only attract a certain type of player, of a certain type of level.
Jamal Lowe has played reasonably well so far, but let's be honest here, if he were something really special, he wouldn't be here, would he? |  | | |
| Where we're going on 16:28 - Jan 22 with 2134 views | PinnerPaul |
Kakay isn't "dreadful" and Tim isn't our "best midfielder"
I accept those are a matter of opinion though.
However, surely the aim of all loans at all clubs is to improve your team/squad with players you couldn't ordinarily afford - again we're in danger of bubble thinking - no we are NOT the only club loaning players..
IMHO its a little pointless banging on about it. May just as well moan about the fact that half our team weren't born in W12 and been with the club since they were 6 - would be nice, but ain't how it works in 2023....for anyone! | | | |
| Where we're going on 17:38 - Jan 22 with 2072 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Where we're going on 16:28 - Jan 22 by PinnerPaul |
Kakay isn't "dreadful" and Tim isn't our "best midfielder"
I accept those are a matter of opinion though.
However, surely the aim of all loans at all clubs is to improve your team/squad with players you couldn't ordinarily afford - again we're in danger of bubble thinking - no we are NOT the only club loaning players..
IMHO its a little pointless banging on about it. May just as well moan about the fact that half our team weren't born in W12 and been with the club since they were 6 - would be nice, but ain't how it works in 2023....for anyone! |
So sorry for your loss Paul.
I get your points, although I do think Kakay is rubbish and cost us the game yesterday. Tim is not our best midfielder, agreed, but was yesterday.
Agreed it is a fact of life about loans. I just don't think our long-term strategy is quite right. It's one thing getting in support or a brilliant loan player, quite another when you have our situation and it is relentless and going to leave yet more massive holes at the end of the season.
Best wishes to you and yours. | | | |
| Where we're going on 17:50 - Jan 22 with 2037 views | PinnerPaul |
| Where we're going on 17:38 - Jan 22 by GaryBannister86 |
So sorry for your loss Paul.
I get your points, although I do think Kakay is rubbish and cost us the game yesterday. Tim is not our best midfielder, agreed, but was yesterday.
Agreed it is a fact of life about loans. I just don't think our long-term strategy is quite right. It's one thing getting in support or a brilliant loan player, quite another when you have our situation and it is relentless and going to leave yet more massive holes at the end of the season.
Best wishes to you and yours. |
Thanks for your kind words.
The point I didn't make, tbf, is whether the loan players inhibit the development of our own.
Not sure they do, is Kakay going to be miles better (whatever base we think he is at!) by playing another 20 games and Clive's oft made point also has merit, even if Laird is better is he going to make us a top 6 side?
Same argument could be applied to most loan players I concede.
However, think we can agree we would lose more games without them = more pressure on manager which is why most are happy to have them in their side.
For all Warnock's good perm signings, it has to be said loaning one of the best right full backs the Championship has ever seen in Kyle Walker helped him and us no end! | | | |
| Where we're going on 17:53 - Jan 22 with 2031 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| Where we're going on 17:38 - Jan 22 by GaryBannister86 |
So sorry for your loss Paul.
I get your points, although I do think Kakay is rubbish and cost us the game yesterday. Tim is not our best midfielder, agreed, but was yesterday.
Agreed it is a fact of life about loans. I just don't think our long-term strategy is quite right. It's one thing getting in support or a brilliant loan player, quite another when you have our situation and it is relentless and going to leave yet more massive holes at the end of the season.
Best wishes to you and yours. |
Yeah, I thought Tim played well yesterday and got stuck in, which he hasn't always done.
I love Kakay's effort but he's a League 1 player. He's literally cost us four points in the last two home games, and if you're serious about getting in the play-offs, you don't play League 1 standard players. I get the impression he's still here to justify the youth system but with Shodipo out on loan again, him and Niko's days must be numbered too. [Post edited 22 Jan 2023 17:55]
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| Where we're going on 19:16 - Jan 22 with 1893 views | Boston |
I don't care anymore. Just get that hooped on ya and get the ball in the back of the net. We'll debate details later. | |
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| Where we're going on 22:56 - Jan 22 with 1696 views | NorthantsHoop |
Where we're going is to remain a Championship club for the foreseeable future. The division is now so dominated by the Parachute clubs that it is a stroke of luck to get anywhere near automatic promotion, other than the lottery of the play offs, which seems the only route for the have nots in the division. The main thing we cannot afford is relegation to League 1. We have to try and grow our own young players and try and recruit from lower leagues and sensibly from abroad. I am putting a lot of faith in the new training centre and infrastructure improvement there to encourage youngsters of benefit of joining QPR over others and through to the first team in the Championship, as I say it is the Championship for the foreseeable unless we get lucky. [Post edited 22 Jan 2023 22:59]
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