| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 17:35 - Aug 2 with 2780 views | 442Dale |
Good read. The game isn’t the same anymore and despite our successes of the last decade, it’s not one that, personally speaking, is as enjoyable as it was before the turn of the century. Accept that everyone thinks differently, but there is a distinct lack of identity to clubs and the entire industry that we won’t ever turnaround. That’s mainly down to the passing of time though. |  |
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| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 17:40 - Aug 2 with 2753 views | fitzochris |
What’s happening in Salford and Fleetwood is a akin to the franchising of soulless American sports. It’s getting a foothold in cricket too. |  |
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| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 17:53 - Aug 2 with 2703 views | D_Alien |
We seem to be struggling in coming to terms with the requirement to modernise whilst retaining the long-held community feel of supporting Dale
The feeling we had at Old Trafford for instance, less than twelve months ago, came about through having a long history of being underdogs, going back to when schoolmates chose to support teams like Man U. But, once you've had that feeling, will it ever be quite the same again?
Same as when we were first promoted (in most fan's memory) in 2010. It wasn't quite the same in 2014. So the question, implicit in the fine OP, is where do we go from here?
[Post edited 2 Aug 2020 17:56]
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| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 17:58 - Aug 2 with 2684 views | fitzochris |
| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 17:53 - Aug 2 by D_Alien |
We seem to be struggling in coming to terms with the requirement to modernise whilst retaining the long-held community feel of supporting Dale
The feeling we had at Old Trafford for instance, less than twelve months ago, came about through having a long history of being underdogs, going back to when schoolmates chose to support teams like Man U. But, once you've had that feeling, will it ever be quite the same again?
Same as when we were first promoted (in most fan's memory) in 2010. It wasn't quite the same in 2014. So the question, implicit in the fine OP, is where do we go from here?
[Post edited 2 Aug 2020 17:56]
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I think achieving what Wycombe did this season or lifting the EFL Trophy at Wembley would be the next level for me. In achieving what we have before, there was also a tremendous feeling of togetherness between the club and the supporters.
All of that seems to be lacking now and we seem a million miles away from achieving what I reference above.
Right now I’m going into tin hat mode and adopting the mentality I had in the 90s when we were proper shite - all the while humming that D:Ream song. | |
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| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 18:00 - Aug 2 with 2679 views | Ancoats_Blue |
| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 17:35 - Aug 2 by 442Dale |
Good read. The game isn’t the same anymore and despite our successes of the last decade, it’s not one that, personally speaking, is as enjoyable as it was before the turn of the century. Accept that everyone thinks differently, but there is a distinct lack of identity to clubs and the entire industry that we won’t ever turnaround. That’s mainly down to the passing of time though. |
I’m no fan of Fleetwood or Salford’s approach to success (or any other bank rolled club really) but I’m curious what identity you or other think Dale had/have compared to the rest of the footballing world? The club’s not particularly famed for anything. Not compared to some of our closest rivals. Bury have their FA Cups and cheating, Oldham plastic pitches and premier league years, Accrington still famous from a milk advert from 25 years ago. We’ve no political or religious slant (thankfully) that someone could associate with us. No famous fans I can link us to. The only thing I can think of is people remember Dale being crap for a big stretch of a 36 year stint in the 4th tier. Which isn’t a great identity to hold on to really.
I suppose the youth set up, home grown talent and developing players is the biggest thing I’m proud of. I love reminding colleagues and friends that players used to play for us.
Nothing stopping us forging some new identity in addition to this and someone posted a few weeks ago about reaching out to twinned town/city clubs which I think would be fun. |  | | |
| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 18:31 - Aug 2 with 2601 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 17:40 - Aug 2 by fitzochris |
What’s happening in Salford and Fleetwood is a akin to the franchising of soulless American sports. It’s getting a foothold in cricket too. |
Not sure about that, there are always clubs that suddenly come in to a bit of money and improve their league position as a result. Wycombe being a recent example. The money pumped into Fleetwood hasn’t really been rewarded with success, and Accrington have been bankrolled by their owner without them hitting the heights. Bournemouth and Brighton have had huge investment, but still retain their soul. Good luck to Salford and Fleetwood, new teams come in and failing ones go out. |  |
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| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 18:34 - Aug 2 with 2587 views | 442Dale |
| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 18:00 - Aug 2 by Ancoats_Blue |
I’m no fan of Fleetwood or Salford’s approach to success (or any other bank rolled club really) but I’m curious what identity you or other think Dale had/have compared to the rest of the footballing world? The club’s not particularly famed for anything. Not compared to some of our closest rivals. Bury have their FA Cups and cheating, Oldham plastic pitches and premier league years, Accrington still famous from a milk advert from 25 years ago. We’ve no political or religious slant (thankfully) that someone could associate with us. No famous fans I can link us to. The only thing I can think of is people remember Dale being crap for a big stretch of a 36 year stint in the 4th tier. Which isn’t a great identity to hold on to really.
I suppose the youth set up, home grown talent and developing players is the biggest thing I’m proud of. I love reminding colleagues and friends that players used to play for us.
Nothing stopping us forging some new identity in addition to this and someone posted a few weeks ago about reaching out to twinned town/city clubs which I think would be fun. |
As I said, everyone sees it differently, the identity thing is across clubs and the game in general. Though yes, as you’ve pointed out, there are some things that do continue to offer a semblance of that identity at Dale - but it’s getting swallowed up by the general direction of football as a whole. It’s most definitely a time thing, albeit with one strange wildcard that may see things change after all; that being the current uncertainty created by coronavirus and it’s impact on everything. Who knows, maybe it could actually benefit football in the future. | |
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| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 18:53 - Aug 2 with 2551 views | fitzochris |
| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 18:31 - Aug 2 by rochdaleriddler |
Not sure about that, there are always clubs that suddenly come in to a bit of money and improve their league position as a result. Wycombe being a recent example. The money pumped into Fleetwood hasn’t really been rewarded with success, and Accrington have been bankrolled by their owner without them hitting the heights. Bournemouth and Brighton have had huge investment, but still retain their soul. Good luck to Salford and Fleetwood, new teams come in and failing ones go out. |
The money pumped into Fleetwood hasn’t been rewarded with success?
They’ve climbed up the pyramid and currently sit in League One, for crying out loud. Salford are on a similar trajectory.
Accrington may have been bankrolled but always at a proportionally sensible level. I don’t get you using them as a comparison, to be honest.
Bournemouth and Brighton are both clubs with a tremendous history in the football league and have the support and infrastructure to justify the investment they’ve received.
What are Fleetwood and Salford ever going to realistically offer? Seriously?
I’ve no problem with them existing, but why try to buy success at ridiculous levels? It will get them as far as the Championship and that is as far as they will go with their infrastructure. I doubt the Class of 92 will stick around when things get tough and interest wanes. Their hearts lie with another club.
Andy Pilley likewise at Fleetwood. He’s a businessman at the end of the day and even his wealth only goes so far. Blackpool is the club with the history and support on that coastline and he knows it deep down. | |
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| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 18:53 - Aug 2 with 2551 views | AtThePeake |
| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 18:31 - Aug 2 by rochdaleriddler |
Not sure about that, there are always clubs that suddenly come in to a bit of money and improve their league position as a result. Wycombe being a recent example. The money pumped into Fleetwood hasn’t really been rewarded with success, and Accrington have been bankrolled by their owner without them hitting the heights. Bournemouth and Brighton have had huge investment, but still retain their soul. Good luck to Salford and Fleetwood, new teams come in and failing ones go out. |
Fleetwood were in the North West Counties when Pilley took over as chairman. They've had six promotions without any relegations. How is that not success? |  |
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| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 19:35 - Aug 2 with 2477 views | 56years |
A remarkably down beat account - if even Arsenal are not certain of holding on to their captain how are we any different? Football is a mercenary game - dog eat dog - the best you can hope for is that you punch above your 'weight' - something we have been doing for nearly the last 20 years and I have every confidence we will continue to do so .
The club has been transformed in my years of support - yes there is still work to be done but I remain optimistic. The list of clubs I used to go and watch the Dale at and who no longer exist, or at much lower level of the game, far outweigh those who have risen 'above their station' in relation to us.
Toughen up sir/madam - old Dale fans are made of stronger stuff! |  | | |
| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 19:40 - Aug 2 with 2463 views | Shun |
Good article, ATP. Having read that it’s fairly ironic that our two departing talents have joined probably the two smallest clubs in the entire Football League, albeit clubs whose budgets far outstrip ours. |  | | |
| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 19:51 - Aug 2 with 2434 views | D_Alien |
| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 19:35 - Aug 2 by 56years |
A remarkably down beat account - if even Arsenal are not certain of holding on to their captain how are we any different? Football is a mercenary game - dog eat dog - the best you can hope for is that you punch above your 'weight' - something we have been doing for nearly the last 20 years and I have every confidence we will continue to do so .
The club has been transformed in my years of support - yes there is still work to be done but I remain optimistic. The list of clubs I used to go and watch the Dale at and who no longer exist, or at much lower level of the game, far outweigh those who have risen 'above their station' in relation to us.
Toughen up sir/madam - old Dale fans are made of stronger stuff! |
Do i need to toughen up too? Been watching Dale since 1965 but feel the kind of ennui the OP elicits
Those whose lives have been lived almost entirely in the age of the internet bring a different perspective, and the future lies in their hands. That's what the club has to cater for now, not just those of us who were grateful to have a football league club to follow when there was little else to do of a Saturday afternoon in January | |
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| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 19:54 - Aug 2 with 2422 views | judd |
Excellent read, ATP, and seriously thought provoking.
Perhaps illustrates just how brittle relationships can be. |  |
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| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 20:30 - Aug 2 with 2328 views | Plattyswrinklynuts |
No one can ever say it’s easy to support a lower league club. But I’d rather have the pride, satisfaction (sometimes!) & connection to our club that so called “fans” of UnitedArseCityPoolSki can never hope to reach. There are “fans” of those clubs who couldn’t find their stadium if it was the hole in the centre of their backside.
Yes, they read the club online blurb, can reel off titles, encyclopaedic knowledge of shirt sponsorship etc but they have a huge hole in their sad existences. It’s called a soul.
They’re the kind of condescending tossers who are only too eager to belittle others in your local while glued to sky tv but can’t take criticism themselves.
Supporting clubs like Dale isn’t supposed to be a cakewalk. I know it’s hard in this day & age where gratification needs to be immediate - especially for our younger fans but that’s reality I’m afraid. If there’s any justice then Dale should be rewarded for their prudent approach. I’ve said it before, many clubs will soon feel the cold blast of the new financial landscape.
We all know that we’ve never been out if the bottom 2 divisions but amidst all the current goings on in the game we can hold our heads higher than most. |  | | |
| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 22:44 - Aug 2 with 2225 views | AtThePeake |
| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 20:30 - Aug 2 by Plattyswrinklynuts |
No one can ever say it’s easy to support a lower league club. But I’d rather have the pride, satisfaction (sometimes!) & connection to our club that so called “fans” of UnitedArseCityPoolSki can never hope to reach. There are “fans” of those clubs who couldn’t find their stadium if it was the hole in the centre of their backside.
Yes, they read the club online blurb, can reel off titles, encyclopaedic knowledge of shirt sponsorship etc but they have a huge hole in their sad existences. It’s called a soul.
They’re the kind of condescending tossers who are only too eager to belittle others in your local while glued to sky tv but can’t take criticism themselves.
Supporting clubs like Dale isn’t supposed to be a cakewalk. I know it’s hard in this day & age where gratification needs to be immediate - especially for our younger fans but that’s reality I’m afraid. If there’s any justice then Dale should be rewarded for their prudent approach. I’ve said it before, many clubs will soon feel the cold blast of the new financial landscape.
We all know that we’ve never been out if the bottom 2 divisions but amidst all the current goings on in the game we can hold our heads higher than most. |
Fair enough, some good points there Platty.
I was trying to make a point about match-going supporters more specifically than those that go to the pub to watch a stream of a Saturday afternoon though.
As for the immediate gratification, I'm happy with the relative success we have had over the past 15 or so years - given our history and size it's quite remarkable in fact and we should be proud of it.
It's more about the experience of actually going to the match being this weird sort of middle ground where you don't get the affordability or freedom of non-league but also don't get the quality of play or facilities you get in the Premier League.
Add to that the fact that not only are we unable to compete with the far bigger clubs around us (which we expect and is relatively easy to accept) but it seems we now can't even financially compete with arguably the smallest clubs in the league historically speaking... it can be a tough pill to swallow. | |
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| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 22:54 - Aug 2 with 2194 views | DaleyBrent |
A well written article but it genuinely left me feeling depressed. Is that how we all feel now? We’ve come as far as we’ve come and that’s it? I’m completely opposite in my feelings regarding the new season. I absolutely cannot wait to watch our team get back out there and pit their wits against some incredible football clubs. Does Yeovil’s, Burtons and Wycombe promotion not still give you that dream deep down that one say that could be us? |  | | |
| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 02:09 - Aug 3 with 2128 views | sxdale |
I agree to see Hendo holding the Salford scarf and Camps in his new Fleetwood kit was sickening, added to the fact that it seems like the board couldn't wait to offload every player out of contract and no news of signings was wondering if it was worth carrying on with Dale. Not thought that since barrowball !
But .......
I didn't start watching Dale for the glory but because it was my hometown team and could walk to the ground. The comradeship watching Dale is what it was all about, those rare moments of triumph through seasons of adversity taste all the sweeter because they are not the norm.
Now it is my connection to my birthplace, the thing that makes me what l am, that identifies me. The regulars in my local look out for the Dale results even if they couldn't point out Rochdale on a map.
Being stuck in traffic on the M25 seeing a Dale window sticker on another car winding down the window and having a chat, you wouldn't see a Man U fan doing that. But we are few, we are proud and we are The Dale.
I have seen us play at Wembley and seen us promoted twice things l wouldn't of dare dream of when l started following Dale. I used to joke that if we ever got promoted that l would have to kill myself cos life couldn't possibly get any better ! but it did.
I have seen us at 103 different grounds in England, Wales and Scotland and hope to do many more once away fans are allowed back, l will be seething if l don't get to see us walk out at Portman Rd!
My team, my one true love (don't tell the missus) it's in the ink that's in my skin, to paraphrase Frank Turner
It's hard being a Dale fan but l wouldn't be anything else. | | | |
| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 08:04 - Aug 3 with 2043 views | joecooke |
Harrogate are another who are bankrolled and are now a League club.
If the likes of Salford, Harrogate and the likes continue to grow and support increases for them accordingly and they have the funds not to put the clubs at jeopardy of becoming extinct then i dont see any major issues. |  |
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| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 09:16 - Aug 3 with 1981 views | fitzochris |
| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 08:04 - Aug 3 by joecooke |
Harrogate are another who are bankrolled and are now a League club.
If the likes of Salford, Harrogate and the likes continue to grow and support increases for them accordingly and they have the funds not to put the clubs at jeopardy of becoming extinct then i dont see any major issues. |
"and support increases for them accordingly"
That's the key bit. The rest is academic.
I take Gretna as a case study. A poorly-supported Scottish border team. In comes millionaire businessman Brooks Mileson, who bankrolled them to the Scottish Premier League. During that journey the club's support didn't grow proportionally. While he was in charge, the club wasn't at risk, but they found their level based on the limit of his resources — at the bottom of the table.
Then, the minute his health deteriorated and his son saw his inheritance being pissed away, the money was withdrawn.
The result? The club went bust and has now done a Bury by reforming in lower leagues.
What was the point of any of it, really? It wasn't a fairy tale as it was based on a false economy - and it only benefited a handful of local supporters and a small contingent of mercenary footballers.
I have no problem with clubs coming up and living within their means based on their level of support. If it grows, then by all means expand accordingly — but don’t run before you can walk etc etc. | |
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| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 09:24 - Aug 3 with 1968 views | judd |
| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 09:16 - Aug 3 by fitzochris |
"and support increases for them accordingly"
That's the key bit. The rest is academic.
I take Gretna as a case study. A poorly-supported Scottish border team. In comes millionaire businessman Brooks Mileson, who bankrolled them to the Scottish Premier League. During that journey the club's support didn't grow proportionally. While he was in charge, the club wasn't at risk, but they found their level based on the limit of his resources — at the bottom of the table.
Then, the minute his health deteriorated and his son saw his inheritance being pissed away, the money was withdrawn.
The result? The club went bust and has now done a Bury by reforming in lower leagues.
What was the point of any of it, really? It wasn't a fairy tale as it was based on a false economy - and it only benefited a handful of local supporters and a small contingent of mercenary footballers.
I have no problem with clubs coming up and living within their means based on their level of support. If it grows, then by all means expand accordingly — but don’t run before you can walk etc etc. |
Mileson was also honorary vice president of Stockport County Supporters Trust. | |
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| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 10:52 - Aug 3 with 1862 views | Nigeriamark |
| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 22:54 - Aug 2 by DaleyBrent |
A well written article but it genuinely left me feeling depressed. Is that how we all feel now? We’ve come as far as we’ve come and that’s it? I’m completely opposite in my feelings regarding the new season. I absolutely cannot wait to watch our team get back out there and pit their wits against some incredible football clubs. Does Yeovil’s, Burtons and Wycombe promotion not still give you that dream deep down that one say that could be us? |
As a 50+ season supporter I don't feel depressed at all, but actually feel a stronger affiliation to supporting my hometown club. 20 year+ ago, I used to watch Dale, but also a good number of Premier/1st division games & all England games. With the money, diving/cheating & complete lack of connection with fans, I rarely make an effort to watch other football games now. If I want an alternative to Dale I am more likely to watch Rugby or Cricket. For all the grumblings about the board, finances, player coming & goings etc I think the club are very representative of the town as much as in the old days & hopefully it will continue |  | | |
| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 10:56 - Aug 3 with 1860 views | joecooke |
| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 09:16 - Aug 3 by fitzochris |
"and support increases for them accordingly"
That's the key bit. The rest is academic.
I take Gretna as a case study. A poorly-supported Scottish border team. In comes millionaire businessman Brooks Mileson, who bankrolled them to the Scottish Premier League. During that journey the club's support didn't grow proportionally. While he was in charge, the club wasn't at risk, but they found their level based on the limit of his resources — at the bottom of the table.
Then, the minute his health deteriorated and his son saw his inheritance being pissed away, the money was withdrawn.
The result? The club went bust and has now done a Bury by reforming in lower leagues.
What was the point of any of it, really? It wasn't a fairy tale as it was based on a false economy - and it only benefited a handful of local supporters and a small contingent of mercenary footballers.
I have no problem with clubs coming up and living within their means based on their level of support. If it grows, then by all means expand accordingly — but don’t run before you can walk etc etc. |
I agree with what you are saying, i suppose there will always be the anomaly and for me that is Bournemouth as crowds of 11000 isnt really support increasing accordingly for a club in the Premier league for 5+ years. | |
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| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 11:15 - Aug 3 with 1830 views | IOMDale |
| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 10:52 - Aug 3 by Nigeriamark |
As a 50+ season supporter I don't feel depressed at all, but actually feel a stronger affiliation to supporting my hometown club. 20 year+ ago, I used to watch Dale, but also a good number of Premier/1st division games & all England games. With the money, diving/cheating & complete lack of connection with fans, I rarely make an effort to watch other football games now. If I want an alternative to Dale I am more likely to watch Rugby or Cricket. For all the grumblings about the board, finances, player coming & goings etc I think the club are very representative of the town as much as in the old days & hopefully it will continue |
Nigeria, this echoes my sentiments exactly. I have absolutely no interest in the Premier League or any ‘foreign’ football nowadays. Still generally follow the EFL but outside of that, it’s rugby league for me now.
You can drink whilst watching the game, there are very few Stone Island-clad neanderthals and everybody is just a lot friendlier; I was at the Nou Camp when Wigan played Catalans last year and the atmosphere was terrific, all the fans mixing and drinking together. I’m not saying that that doesn’t happen at the football but it won’t be with anywhere near the same regularity. |  | | |
| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 11:19 - Aug 3 with 1822 views | TVOS1907 |
| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 10:56 - Aug 3 by joecooke |
I agree with what you are saying, i suppose there will always be the anomaly and for me that is Bournemouth as crowds of 11000 isnt really support increasing accordingly for a club in the Premier league for 5+ years. |
But that's the capacity of their ground. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 12:23 - Aug 3 with 1731 views | joecooke |
| Is there any reason to support a lower league club? on 11:19 - Aug 3 by TVOS1907 |
But that's the capacity of their ground. |
I realise that it is the capacity but surely if demand was higher you would increase capacity. | |
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