| Main stand reserved seating 14:01 - Sep 19 with 7708 views | daleuxb |
Are the club trying to drive paying fans away? I have sat in the same seats for nearly 20 years with my late dad at my side! In his memory I still sit there at all home games! I know everyone who sits around me and many are friends. The club is now saying I must buy a ticket and sit where they tell me. I have supported the Dale through thick and thin ,ups and downs, played for the youth and reserve teams and raised money for them. This to me personally is a kick in the teeth. Does anyone else feel this way,?? |  | | |  |
| Main stand reserved seating on 11:21 - Oct 2 with 1758 views | BillyRudd |
I will be charitable and assume that the explanation given to the trust actually has some validity in the minds of those making these bizarre decisions.
Bearing in mind increasing "capacity" is not the same as increasing attendance (you could equally increase capacity by raising prices thus reducing demand)I will give you a real world viewpoint.
I have for several seasons now exhorted my friends (mainly of the armchair football fan variety) to get up to San Spotty and enjoy some fabulous football. Mainly this was met with derision but two recent promotions and the likes of Grant, Lambert, Dawson, Le Fondre etc gave my arm twisting more validity.
Two partial victims, sorry converts were visiting 4 or 5 times a season. Not enough to justify a season ticket but revenue all the same as they tended to be unglamorous Tuesday night matches. One of these is not in the best of health. On being told of this bizarre decision, I was told in no uncertain terms that he would,nt be gracing us with his presence again.
I make three points.
Firstly there are so many options for discretionary spend nowadays, that you don,t put obstacles in the customers way. He will think that £110 or so will be better put to his SKY subscription and who can blame him
Secondly, and I am only guessing. Is the real reason because the turnstyles are so outdated (compared to other clubs I have visited) that the ticket system is the only way they can control demand if approaching full capacity. If so, then why not be up front about it and stop treating us like idiots with nonsensical explanations.
Thirdly, I have never been in but am told that the best view in the ground is the Wilbutts. One reason being there are no stanchions. Against Gillingham, their fans could have been housed in a tiny section of the ground and the rest opened up for ourselves. Well stewarded (and god knows there are enough of them) I don,t see a problem. However I am quite sure that in this day and age, the clipboard merchants could come up with a few, probably expressed in the same drivel the club have come out with.
Apologies for being grumpy. Had to get it off my chest. Up the Dale. | | | |
| Main stand reserved seating on 13:32 - Oct 2 with 1642 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Main stand reserved seating on 21:29 - Oct 1 by 442Dale |
This was raised via the Trust who have included the following in their monthly newsletter today:
<<"Work with the club
We approached the club in the last few days following concerns by members about the changes made to the main stand on match days. The club have recently announced that there will be no cash turnstiles for home games for that stand. Having spoken to the club, they have said that the season ticket initiative over the Summer proved to be extremely popular with the main stand in particular. Making it entry by ticket only has led to the club being able to increase the capacity for the stand and thereby allowing more supporters to take advantage of it.">>
The actual decision can be debated, but communicating that explanation originally when the information was released to supporters would have helped everyone. Thanks to the Trust for representing the fans and to the club for responding. |
I'll be honest 442 when I say I don't understand the explanation given.
To me, the capacity of the stand is the same as it was last season.
The season ticket initiative has been a success and that means a greater subscribed capacity before any "on the day" sales are considered. It is not a sell out.
The available capacity of the stand is its declared safety capacity (on the safety cerfificate) less the number of season ticketed seats sold.
What I think is being said is:
"We have sold a significant number of country season tickets for the main stand and, in reality, those people who will only attend 10 games. We don't know which games they are planning to attend so have to assume that it is each game. To counter this we are asking people to buy tickets or swap their county season ticket voucher for a matchday ticket."
If it's not that, then I've no idea what's going on.
The principle of buying a seat and sitting in it is simple enough as is the management of the fan who wants to get a ticket for a day on a walk-up basis.
It's great the Trust asks but when the reply is cryptic it doesn't clear up matters. |  |
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| Main stand reserved seating on 14:24 - Oct 2 with 1613 views | dawlishdale |
| Main stand reserved seating on 13:32 - Oct 2 by RAFCBLUE |
I'll be honest 442 when I say I don't understand the explanation given.
To me, the capacity of the stand is the same as it was last season.
The season ticket initiative has been a success and that means a greater subscribed capacity before any "on the day" sales are considered. It is not a sell out.
The available capacity of the stand is its declared safety capacity (on the safety cerfificate) less the number of season ticketed seats sold.
What I think is being said is:
"We have sold a significant number of country season tickets for the main stand and, in reality, those people who will only attend 10 games. We don't know which games they are planning to attend so have to assume that it is each game. To counter this we are asking people to buy tickets or swap their county season ticket voucher for a matchday ticket."
If it's not that, then I've no idea what's going on.
The principle of buying a seat and sitting in it is simple enough as is the management of the fan who wants to get a ticket for a day on a walk-up basis.
It's great the Trust asks but when the reply is cryptic it doesn't clear up matters. |
You could be right, but I asked a person at the ground at the Blackburn game (who I took to be the GSO, or a senior steward.)
The club announced that the Main Stand was full, yet there were several hundred empty seats in the side to the right of the players tunnel.
Anyhow, the chap told me that the Ground regulations are now being enforced more strictly than was the case when we didn't own the Stadium.
If you have unreserved seating, you lose a % of available seats (can't remember what figure...but possibly 10% or so)
I'm sure we've had this before for away fans... if it is reserved seating, we can sell more tickets than if it is unreserved.
If you add to this the fact that there will be plenty of Country Season Tickets and quite a few kids tickets that are empty, it begins to make sense.
I agree though. The statement from the club was not clear at all. | | | |
| Main stand reserved seating on 15:22 - Oct 2 with 1577 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Main stand reserved seating on 14:24 - Oct 2 by dawlishdale |
You could be right, but I asked a person at the ground at the Blackburn game (who I took to be the GSO, or a senior steward.)
The club announced that the Main Stand was full, yet there were several hundred empty seats in the side to the right of the players tunnel.
Anyhow, the chap told me that the Ground regulations are now being enforced more strictly than was the case when we didn't own the Stadium.
If you have unreserved seating, you lose a % of available seats (can't remember what figure...but possibly 10% or so)
I'm sure we've had this before for away fans... if it is reserved seating, we can sell more tickets than if it is unreserved.
If you add to this the fact that there will be plenty of Country Season Tickets and quite a few kids tickets that are empty, it begins to make sense.
I agree though. The statement from the club was not clear at all. |
Thanks dawlish; that makes a lot more sense. At least to me!
If so, the club should just say:
* Ground regulations means we have to limit capacity if we do unreserved seating
* We want to have as many people as possible see the game as cheaply as possible; hence the season ticket promotion which has been a massive success.
* That unfortunately means a bit more rigour but we can and do make it easy to buy tickets before the game.
I have a lot of empathy with the club doing this this season - a lot of these are new problems. It is good practice though if we genuinely aspire to be in the Championship as the sorts of problems that do arise and have to be planned to be avoided. | |
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| Main stand reserved seating on 17:16 - Oct 2 with 1509 views | 442Dale |
| Main stand reserved seating on 14:24 - Oct 2 by dawlishdale |
You could be right, but I asked a person at the ground at the Blackburn game (who I took to be the GSO, or a senior steward.)
The club announced that the Main Stand was full, yet there were several hundred empty seats in the side to the right of the players tunnel.
Anyhow, the chap told me that the Ground regulations are now being enforced more strictly than was the case when we didn't own the Stadium.
If you have unreserved seating, you lose a % of available seats (can't remember what figure...but possibly 10% or so)
I'm sure we've had this before for away fans... if it is reserved seating, we can sell more tickets than if it is unreserved.
If you add to this the fact that there will be plenty of Country Season Tickets and quite a few kids tickets that are empty, it begins to make sense.
I agree though. The statement from the club was not clear at all. |
I share the same concerns around the specifics of the explanation, but it would have helped initially if fans were told more about the factors behind the decision. There are still further questions that remain unanswered, especially around the necessity to involve the ticket office in the process - tickets could be issued on the turnstiles for each seat to meet the requirements for full capacity. |  |
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| Main stand reserved seating on 17:49 - Oct 2 with 1478 views | VivaDonaldo |
| Main stand reserved seating on 17:16 - Oct 2 by 442Dale |
I share the same concerns around the specifics of the explanation, but it would have helped initially if fans were told more about the factors behind the decision. There are still further questions that remain unanswered, especially around the necessity to involve the ticket office in the process - tickets could be issued on the turnstiles for each seat to meet the requirements for full capacity. |
But in order to do that they'd probably have to print off a full batch of tickets for each game and give them to the turnstiles whilst retaining some for themselves to sell at the main office.
The increase in costs over the season wouldn't make it viable. Best doing it on a sale by sale basis at the ticket office. People just need to plan ahead a little and either book in advance or allow time to queue at the office. | | | |
| Main stand reserved seating on 18:03 - Oct 2 with 1445 views | 442Dale |
| Main stand reserved seating on 17:49 - Oct 2 by VivaDonaldo |
But in order to do that they'd probably have to print off a full batch of tickets for each game and give them to the turnstiles whilst retaining some for themselves to sell at the main office.
The increase in costs over the season wouldn't make it viable. Best doing it on a sale by sale basis at the ticket office. People just need to plan ahead a little and either book in advance or allow time to queue at the office. |
The amount of pay on the day fans could be worked out off from previous games to ensure a correct amount are available at the turnstiles, but yes it's a valid point if the sales at the ticket office are causing minimal disruption to the club and fans.
The main thing is the communication is improving. | |
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| Main stand reserved seating on 19:00 - Oct 2 with 1402 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Main stand reserved seating on 17:49 - Oct 2 by VivaDonaldo |
But in order to do that they'd probably have to print off a full batch of tickets for each game and give them to the turnstiles whilst retaining some for themselves to sell at the main office.
The increase in costs over the season wouldn't make it viable. Best doing it on a sale by sale basis at the ticket office. People just need to plan ahead a little and either book in advance or allow time to queue at the office. |
I can't remember where it was we played away from home but I was told by an away ticket office that the reason they had enforced buying your ticket from an office next to a turnstile, rather than pay at the turnstile, was to prevent gate theft.
The ticket office at this particular away ground had CCTV whereas every turnstile did not and in doing this they eradicated that fact plus made sure that concessions were concessions and not adults getting in on a concession ticket.
Since then I've long held the view that that club (and therefore others) considers turnstile operators a risk and I'd hate to think the logical financial reconciling that needs to go on to ensure that every penny put across a turnstile across every club is given to that club.
Some went further and replaced the turnstile operator with machines that read your ticket.
In our case we can have the ticket office sell tickets as long as the entry is policed possibly.
It's good we are progressing but we do have a lot to learn and a long way to go. | |
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| Main stand reserved seating on 19:57 - Oct 2 with 1351 views | windowsbug |
| Main stand reserved seating on 19:00 - Oct 2 by RAFCBLUE |
I can't remember where it was we played away from home but I was told by an away ticket office that the reason they had enforced buying your ticket from an office next to a turnstile, rather than pay at the turnstile, was to prevent gate theft.
The ticket office at this particular away ground had CCTV whereas every turnstile did not and in doing this they eradicated that fact plus made sure that concessions were concessions and not adults getting in on a concession ticket.
Since then I've long held the view that that club (and therefore others) considers turnstile operators a risk and I'd hate to think the logical financial reconciling that needs to go on to ensure that every penny put across a turnstile across every club is given to that club.
Some went further and replaced the turnstile operator with machines that read your ticket.
In our case we can have the ticket office sell tickets as long as the entry is policed possibly.
It's good we are progressing but we do have a lot to learn and a long way to go. |
Every turnstile should have a counting device that indicates how many people have used it.
Therefore the number of uses x the entry cost minus any ticket stubs should equal the amount of money in the bag.
Simples. Or it should be..... |  | | |
| Main stand reserved seating on 20:01 - Oct 2 with 1345 views | TVOS1907 |
| Main stand reserved seating on 19:57 - Oct 2 by windowsbug |
Every turnstile should have a counting device that indicates how many people have used it.
Therefore the number of uses x the entry cost minus any ticket stubs should equal the amount of money in the bag.
Simples. Or it should be..... |
The turnstiles are all connected to the 'attendance computer' in the office, which should be even simpler! |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Main stand reserved seating on 20:49 - Oct 2 with 1305 views | DaleiLama |
| Main stand reserved seating on 20:01 - Oct 2 by TVOS1907 |
The turnstiles are all connected to the 'attendance computer' in the office, which should be even simpler! |
Then the announced attendance is a number picked out of hat? |  |
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| Main stand reserved seating on 20:53 - Oct 2 with 1301 views | TVOS1907 |
| Main stand reserved seating on 20:49 - Oct 2 by DaleiLama |
Then the announced attendance is a number picked out of hat? |
That's a bit of a random comment. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Main stand reserved seating on 20:58 - Oct 2 with 1291 views | DaleiLama |
| Main stand reserved seating on 20:53 - Oct 2 by TVOS1907 |
That's a bit of a random comment. |
Just a reflection on the seeming disparity between how full the ground is vs the official announced attendance. Could be an optical illusion? | |
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| Main stand reserved seating on 20:58 - Oct 2 with 1291 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Main stand reserved seating on 20:01 - Oct 2 by TVOS1907 |
The turnstiles are all connected to the 'attendance computer' in the office, which should be even simpler! |
The current methods of monitoring must be flawed.
The upward revision of the attendance at the Scunthorpe home game from that announced is good evidence of this.
Suggests a lack of a handle on those in the ground and each individual stand. | |
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| Main stand reserved seating on 21:02 - Oct 2 with 1280 views | TVOS1907 |
| Main stand reserved seating on 20:58 - Oct 2 by DaleiLama |
Just a reflection on the seeming disparity between how full the ground is vs the official announced attendance. Could be an optical illusion? |
Random, as in "picked out of a hat"... | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Main stand reserved seating on 21:04 - Oct 2 with 1269 views | DaleiLama |
| Main stand reserved seating on 21:02 - Oct 2 by TVOS1907 |
Random, as in "picked out of a hat"... |
Ah, got it ERNIE? | |
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| Main stand reserved seating on 21:27 - Oct 2 with 1247 views | nordenblue |
| Main stand reserved seating on 20:58 - Oct 2 by RAFCBLUE |
The current methods of monitoring must be flawed.
The upward revision of the attendance at the Scunthorpe home game from that announced is good evidence of this.
Suggests a lack of a handle on those in the ground and each individual stand. |
Would that not be a bit of a concern for the health and safety chaps,not knowing exactly what the attendance is/should be for fire reasons? | | | |
| Main stand reserved seating on 21:30 - Oct 2 with 1241 views | nordenblue |
| Main stand reserved seating on 21:04 - Oct 2 by DaleiLama |
Ah, got it ERNIE? |
Did he once drive a nippy milk cart? | | | |
| Main stand reserved seating on 21:33 - Oct 2 with 1229 views | DaleiLama |
| Main stand reserved seating on 21:30 - Oct 2 by nordenblue |
Did he once drive a nippy milk cart? |
Don't know ............ too scared by those ghostly gold tops a rattling in their crates | |
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| Main stand reserved seating on 21:34 - Oct 2 with 1228 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Main stand reserved seating on 21:27 - Oct 2 by nordenblue |
Would that not be a bit of a concern for the health and safety chaps,not knowing exactly what the attendance is/should be for fire reasons? |
Almost certainly.
This Main Stand issue and implemented solution was not there at the end of last season.
The only changes since May are 1) a larger number of season tickets and 2) more rigourously enforced ground regulations.
something isn't 100% right still going off the comments made and which the Trust represented. | |
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| Main stand reserved seating on 21:35 - Oct 2 with 1228 views | TVOS1907 |
| Main stand reserved seating on 21:27 - Oct 2 by nordenblue |
Would that not be a bit of a concern for the health and safety chaps,not knowing exactly what the attendance is/should be for fire reasons? |
If you get health and safety chaps at Willbutts Lane chappy, can you bring them into the ground? | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Main stand reserved seating on 21:46 - Oct 2 with 1208 views | DaleiLama |
| Main stand reserved seating on 21:35 - Oct 2 by TVOS1907 |
If you get health and safety chaps at Willbutts Lane chappy, can you bring them into the ground? |
You've got chaps on the mind?!? | |
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| Main stand reserved seating on 21:51 - Oct 2 with 1197 views | nordenblue |
| Main stand reserved seating on 21:35 - Oct 2 by TVOS1907 |
If you get health and safety chaps at Willbutts Lane chappy, can you bring them into the ground? |
Did you play DCI Taggart? | | | |
| Main stand reserved seating on 22:02 - Oct 2 with 1188 views | TVOS1907 |
| Main stand reserved seating on 21:51 - Oct 2 by nordenblue |
Did you play DCI Taggart? |
No, but when I visited Partick Thistle's ground many years ago, they were actually filming an episode there, but with the bloke who replaced the original! | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Main stand reserved seating on 22:05 - Oct 2 with 1176 views | nordenblue |
| Main stand reserved seating on 21:46 - Oct 2 by DaleiLama |
You've got chaps on the mind?!? |
Full chaps or half chaps,he loves a good ride....... | | | |
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