| Public sector pay 09:10 - Dec 11 with 9069 views | raynor94 |
Government recommending 2.8% rise, with inflation running at 2.6 %.
Will be interesting to see what the pay review body say, but this looks like a collision course for the government |  |
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| Public sector pay on 09:26 - Dec 15 with 1303 views | Scotia |
| Public sector pay on 23:32 - Dec 14 by majorraglan |
My eldest has debts north of 50k, tuition fees were around £9k per year, then there’s living expenses for rent etc rtc. The eldest is quite tight when it comes to money and his lifestyle was frugal but he’s still got massive debts.
The current rate of interest on student loans is around 7%, what hope have a lot of kids got! |
It's incredibly difficult for an awful lot of them.
I was speaking to a final year med student this week her debt is astonishing.
But people question why they strike and what they do to deserve their pay award. |  | | |
| Public sector pay on 09:59 - Dec 15 with 1249 views | raynor94 |
| Public sector pay on 00:31 - Dec 15 by majorraglan |
Yes - Bristol. Prices of housing and rents there have gone through the roof and cost a fortune. The degree is in Accountancy & Finance. |
Best of luck to him and I hope he achieves all he wants | |
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| Public sector pay on 10:17 - Dec 15 with 1222 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Public sector pay on 09:26 - Dec 15 by Scotia |
It's incredibly difficult for an awful lot of them.
I was speaking to a final year med student this week her debt is astonishing.
But people question why they strike and what they do to deserve their pay award. |
Piling debt on young people just starting out is just plain wrong to me.
We've encouraged our son to aim for an apprenticeship, don't start with debt and we'll subsidise him. He's 16, I'm 57, his mums 50, he's got 10 years.
We all have to face it, we have to help our kids all we can. That much hasn't really changed. Maybe people should consider their futures and think about how many kids they have and how much help they can provide?
The pay gap isn't going to close, the lower paid will continue to get squeezed, the rich will get richer and the merry go round will continue. | | | |
| Public sector pay on 11:13 - Dec 15 with 1197 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Public sector pay on 10:17 - Dec 15 by SullutaCreturned |
Piling debt on young people just starting out is just plain wrong to me.
We've encouraged our son to aim for an apprenticeship, don't start with debt and we'll subsidise him. He's 16, I'm 57, his mums 50, he's got 10 years.
We all have to face it, we have to help our kids all we can. That much hasn't really changed. Maybe people should consider their futures and think about how many kids they have and how much help they can provide?
The pay gap isn't going to close, the lower paid will continue to get squeezed, the rich will get richer and the merry go round will continue. |
Very true, all that money printing, furlough schemes, grants and subsidies over the last few years has widened the gap between the super rich and the rest.
Flexibility, as ever, is important for young people there is a good case for gaining transferable skills and internationally recognised qualifications. |  |
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| Public sector pay on 14:15 - Dec 15 with 1123 views | majorraglan |
| Public sector pay on 09:59 - Dec 15 by raynor94 |
Best of luck to him and I hope he achieves all he wants |
Thank you. | | | |
| Public sector pay on 14:37 - Dec 15 with 1079 views | controversial_jack |
| Public sector pay on 20:54 - Dec 14 by raynor94 |
So how have you managed with your 3 properties? |
I paid cash for two of them | | | |
| Public sector pay on 16:36 - Dec 15 with 1019 views | raynor94 |
Fair play to you then | |
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| Public sector pay on 21:40 - Dec 15 with 937 views | KeithHaynes |
You would go missing with that amount of property in a communist country 😉 |  |
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| Public sector pay on 22:43 - Dec 15 with 890 views | controversial_jack |
| Public sector pay on 21:40 - Dec 15 by KeithHaynes |
You would go missing with that amount of property in a communist country 😉 |
I would go into exile | | | |
| Public sector pay on 09:50 - Dec 16 with 772 views | AnotherJohn |
| Public sector pay on 21:40 - Dec 15 by KeithHaynes |
You would go missing with that amount of property in a communist country 😉 |
He is keen on Russian history so should remember the fate of the kulaks.  | | | |
| Public sector pay on 11:06 - Dec 16 with 697 views | controversial_jack |
Not sure how the govt can award them a pay deal as they are private companies. | | | |
| Public sector pay on 11:22 - Dec 16 with 691 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Public sector pay on 11:06 - Dec 16 by controversial_jack |
Not sure how the govt can award them a pay deal as they are private companies. |
Except for the three train companies that they have already privatised. | |
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| Public sector pay on 13:06 - Dec 16 with 659 views | AnotherJohn |
| Public sector pay on 11:06 - Dec 16 by controversial_jack |
Not sure how the govt can award them a pay deal as they are private companies. |
You keep writing this without understanding the system. Since privatisation started in 1994, rail services have been commissioned and funded through various versions of franchising. Although the initial theory was that the private sector franchisees would bear the commercial risk, this principle has been progressively eroded and government in the form of the DfT has a much greater voice in key decisions affecting financial stability. In 2020 the Conservative government first suspended franchising to maintain services as passenger demand fell due to the COVID-19 pandemic, and then in September 2020 abolished the franchising policy. At that stage it effectively converted the franchises into concessions, meaning that the companies were no longer exposed to commercial risk. All revenue was paid to the government, who then paid the operators' costs plus a management fee of up to 2% of their pre-pandemic costs. Naturally, the government then took a more active role in pay negotiations, leading the ASLEF leadership to claim that the government was “pulling the strings” of the 16 private companies involved (who by the way negotiated as a block rather than individually). The present Labour government has said that the train operating companies will be brought into public ownership as their contracts expired, again putting the government more in the driving seat. I believe that about 7 franchises have so far been ended and replaced by publicly-run services. | | | |
| Public sector pay on 14:07 - Dec 16 with 622 views | controversial_jack |
| Public sector pay on 13:06 - Dec 16 by AnotherJohn |
You keep writing this without understanding the system. Since privatisation started in 1994, rail services have been commissioned and funded through various versions of franchising. Although the initial theory was that the private sector franchisees would bear the commercial risk, this principle has been progressively eroded and government in the form of the DfT has a much greater voice in key decisions affecting financial stability. In 2020 the Conservative government first suspended franchising to maintain services as passenger demand fell due to the COVID-19 pandemic, and then in September 2020 abolished the franchising policy. At that stage it effectively converted the franchises into concessions, meaning that the companies were no longer exposed to commercial risk. All revenue was paid to the government, who then paid the operators' costs plus a management fee of up to 2% of their pre-pandemic costs. Naturally, the government then took a more active role in pay negotiations, leading the ASLEF leadership to claim that the government was “pulling the strings” of the 16 private companies involved (who by the way negotiated as a block rather than individually). The present Labour government has said that the train operating companies will be brought into public ownership as their contracts expired, again putting the government more in the driving seat. I believe that about 7 franchises have so far been ended and replaced by publicly-run services. |
As far as I know, these particular companies have not been nationalised and are run by franchised companies | | | |
| Public sector pay on 14:09 - Dec 16 with 618 views | controversial_jack |
| Public sector pay on 11:22 - Dec 16 by felixstowe_jack |
Except for the three train companies that they have already privatised. |
To my understanding, these ones have not been nationionalised | | | |
| Public sector pay on 14:29 - Dec 16 with 583 views | AnotherJohn |
| Public sector pay on 14:07 - Dec 16 by controversial_jack |
As far as I know, these particular companies have not been nationalised and are run by franchised companies |
You still don't seem to understand that this is a highly unusual regulated market in which the private companies have limited latitude to make their own decisions. The franchising system was discontinued in September 2020. With the private train operating companies now operating as concession holders rather than franchisees, the DfT has assumed responsibility for managing revenues and reimbursing costs plus management fees. Those train operators that are now run as public services also agreed to the drivers' pay deal, but they are not the only ones influenced by what the government wishes to happen. [Post edited 16 Dec 14:34]
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| Public sector pay on 15:46 - Dec 16 with 530 views | controversial_jack |
| Public sector pay on 14:29 - Dec 16 by AnotherJohn |
You still don't seem to understand that this is a highly unusual regulated market in which the private companies have limited latitude to make their own decisions. The franchising system was discontinued in September 2020. With the private train operating companies now operating as concession holders rather than franchisees, the DfT has assumed responsibility for managing revenues and reimbursing costs plus management fees. Those train operators that are now run as public services also agreed to the drivers' pay deal, but they are not the only ones influenced by what the government wishes to happen. [Post edited 16 Dec 14:34]
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That's not what Mick Lynch was saying during the recent train strikes. The companies had full discretion to award pay settlements, but the then transport secretary put pressure on the train companies not to give in. This now appears to be have been reversed by this govt. | | | |
| Public sector pay on 17:16 - Dec 16 with 487 views | AnotherJohn |
| Public sector pay on 15:46 - Dec 16 by controversial_jack |
That's not what Mick Lynch was saying during the recent train strikes. The companies had full discretion to award pay settlements, but the then transport secretary put pressure on the train companies not to give in. This now appears to be have been reversed by this govt. |
Mike Lynch represents RMT. It was ASLEF that conducted the drivers' pay negotiations. What anyway does "full discretion" mean when the companies have been shielded from risk and just get their money from government. Why do you suppose all the headlines about the settlement mention a deal offered by government? It is pretty easy to check that what I have told you is correct if you do a little reading. | | | |
| Public sector pay on 17:53 - Dec 16 with 461 views | controversial_jack |
| Public sector pay on 17:16 - Dec 16 by AnotherJohn |
Mike Lynch represents RMT. It was ASLEF that conducted the drivers' pay negotiations. What anyway does "full discretion" mean when the companies have been shielded from risk and just get their money from government. Why do you suppose all the headlines about the settlement mention a deal offered by government? It is pretty easy to check that what I have told you is correct if you do a little reading. |
It is the train companies that pay the wages, the govt doesn't, they are not public sector workers,but they give big subsidies to these companies, therefore they believe they have a say in the awards
Govt cannot tell private companies what to pay their employees | | | |
| Public sector pay on 18:21 - Dec 16 with 451 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Public sector pay on 17:53 - Dec 16 by controversial_jack |
It is the train companies that pay the wages, the govt doesn't, they are not public sector workers,but they give big subsidies to these companies, therefore they believe they have a say in the awards
Govt cannot tell private companies what to pay their employees |
Probably best to take AJs advice and do some reading. I assume it will be explained on the ORR Website. | |
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| Public sector pay on 18:48 - Dec 16 with 406 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Public sector pay on 17:53 - Dec 16 by controversial_jack |
It is the train companies that pay the wages, the govt doesn't, they are not public sector workers,but they give big subsidies to these companies, therefore they believe they have a say in the awards
Govt cannot tell private companies what to pay their employees |
As you well know all of the Rail network is nationalised, network Rail.
At least three of the train companies are already nationalised and more to follow. The government pay large Subidies to network Rail and rail companies and there have a say in pay negotiations..
ASLEF and RMT have joint negotiations with the Rail operators to avoid separate negotiations with many Rail operators.
The Labour government told the Rail operating companies they were all going to be nationalised so all workers will soon be public sector workers.
Given this situation the Rail operating companies just gave into Union demands knowing that shortly they would no longer exist. | |
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| Public sector pay on 10:44 - Dec 17 with 267 views | controversial_jack |
| Public sector pay on 18:48 - Dec 16 by felixstowe_jack |
As you well know all of the Rail network is nationalised, network Rail.
At least three of the train companies are already nationalised and more to follow. The government pay large Subidies to network Rail and rail companies and there have a say in pay negotiations..
ASLEF and RMT have joint negotiations with the Rail operators to avoid separate negotiations with many Rail operators.
The Labour government told the Rail operating companies they were all going to be nationalised so all workers will soon be public sector workers.
Given this situation the Rail operating companies just gave into Union demands knowing that shortly they would no longer exist. |
Those companies are not though, they are private companies. Only a few have been nationalized so far. It may well be the case in the future, but it isn't now.The govt gives big subsidies, because privatisation has failed, but they don't pay the wages of the staff, the passengers do.
We need more drivers and staff rather than paying them overtime, but hopefully more will be recruited as the wages are good. Railways are being de mannned so any savings should be re invested | | | |
| Public sector pay on 11:48 - Dec 17 with 224 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Public sector pay on 10:44 - Dec 17 by controversial_jack |
Those companies are not though, they are private companies. Only a few have been nationalized so far. It may well be the case in the future, but it isn't now.The govt gives big subsidies, because privatisation has failed, but they don't pay the wages of the staff, the passengers do.
We need more drivers and staff rather than paying them overtime, but hopefully more will be recruited as the wages are good. Railways are being de mannned so any savings should be re invested |
Unfortunately the unions don't want 7 day rotas. They are more than happy to claim inflated overtime rates for working weekends.
More people already work in the Nationalised sector of the Rail work , 40,000 in network rail alone, the private train companies.
Subsidies are far less than now than before privatisation due ti the success of the private Rail companies in doubling passenger numbers compared with nationaliSed British Rail.
Subsidies peaked after Network Rail was nationalised and have reduced significantly in recent years with most of the Subsidies being paid to nationalised network Rail. | |
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| Public sector pay on 12:38 - Dec 17 with 205 views | AnotherJohn |
I'm going to give up after this post as certain other posters on this thread simply haven't done their research. Vague mention of subsidies does not capture the change that has occurred since COVID-19 in the franchising model and the flow of resources between government (DfT) and the passenger train operating companies.
Look at this report and especially p. 19 and indeed the whole chapter on passenger services.
https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/A-financial-overview-of-the-ra
The quote below gives the gist of what has happened, but the table on page 19 provides more precise information about payment of management fees etc. As JMAB says the ORR website also contains relevant info.
"In response to the COVID-19 pandemic, government changed the franchising model of passenger service delivery, transferring substantially all risk and reward from operators to the Department. The new arrangements mean the government is now directly exposed to operators’ income and expenditure positions, rather than exposure being
deferred until a franchise contract ends or the financial position of a franchisee changes." [Post edited 17 Dec 12:48]
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